bad smells at work what to do
January 27, 2005 1:32 PM Subscribe
Noxious cooking, chemical, and exhaust fumes at work [m.i.]:
I am currently working through my first couple of months of relocation at an old, neglected office building with about thirty floors. My office is on one of the top floors, in a sixty-by-fifteen-foot rectangular, tiny space. Downstairs in the lobby, there is a fully functioning deli with a grill and ovens, and they do a high volume of cooking throughout the day. Every morning and lunchtime, my office fills with the smells from the deli: various fried food odors, raw onions, a weird peanut smell, barbeque, etc. By the time I get home, my clothes and hair stink of crap and grease, and are completely saturated down to my undergarments. So it's clear that whatever is being done in the deli travels into the office (via stairwell, through doors, up the elevator shaft, etc.), and I’m constantly breathing this in. Some mornings upon arrival to the office, the entire space is saturated with the smell of stale cooking grease.
Anyway, that's bad enough, but it gets much worse: Since October 2004, I've noticed that on most afternoons, at least 3 times a week, from about 3:00pm-6:00pm, my office fills with fumes of a chlorine-tinted, heavy, burnt cooking odor. The smell is definitely coming from the deli, because I can smell the same thing in the lobby if I go downstairs. The only way I can properly describe the odor is like maybe they're cleaning the ovens with bleach and it mixes with burnt food. It definitely has a chlorine odor, and its kind of a 'burnt foody' smelling. I unfortunately can't pin down the composition of the fumes, because I’ve never smelt anything like it before.
The fumes are so strong that by the first hour, I am dizzy, disoriented, and unable to concentrate. My eyes burn slightly from it, too. The first month of this, I developed congested lungs, and would 'decongest' for like 3 hours each night after work by coughing-up phlegm, but I must have gained a tolerance to it, because that doesn't happen much anymore. My lungs still do get inflamed a little after breathing the fumes for about an hour. If I take a walk outside, my head clears up within twenty minutes, so I know the physical reaction is from the fumes.
The building is old, so we have opening windows, which is the only way to combat this. So I leave the windows as far open as I can tolerate (but it’s 7 degrees fahrenheit today), and run a fan at the window. As much as this makes it a little better, the fumes are still very cloying, and I still get dizzy with burning eyes. My superior here knows about it, but he sits on the opposite end of the office, and the fumes do not reach him very often. He knows I have a problem with it, but he has told me to keep up with the issue on my own end, so he clearly does not want to get involved. Which is fine, but I can’t take it to him.
And by the way, yes, I've taken it up with building management and the acting manager, and that's not what I want to focus on. It is extremely frustrating because it takes about 20 identical requests to get anything done with management. I have sent about a dozen emails to the building manager since October 2004, and I really only complain when the odors are particularly strong. I smell them everyday incidentally, but some days I can deal with it better than others. Management promises that they're doing something about it, and that's all I can get from them.
So here's my question: Obviously the deli is doing some sort of chemical cleaning to their equipment after the lunch crowd rush, as I always smell the chemical fumes start around 3:00 pm or 4:00 pm, and it usually lasts three hours. I have no experience of kitchens and cooking, as I have never worked in a restaurant at all. Therefore, do delis clean their ovens and grills daily like that? Do they use chemicals? Do they use bleach? Do they 'burn off' food after the big crowds? What is responsible for making me so goddamn dizzy? Is there not proper ventilation for the building? Why are the fumes traveling all the way up here like 30 floors? Is this normal for older buildings? Does anyone have a similar experience? What did you do? Is this something I should bring up with OSHA or the EPA?
I am currently working through my first couple of months of relocation at an old, neglected office building with about thirty floors. My office is on one of the top floors, in a sixty-by-fifteen-foot rectangular, tiny space. Downstairs in the lobby, there is a fully functioning deli with a grill and ovens, and they do a high volume of cooking throughout the day. Every morning and lunchtime, my office fills with the smells from the deli: various fried food odors, raw onions, a weird peanut smell, barbeque, etc. By the time I get home, my clothes and hair stink of crap and grease, and are completely saturated down to my undergarments. So it's clear that whatever is being done in the deli travels into the office (via stairwell, through doors, up the elevator shaft, etc.), and I’m constantly breathing this in. Some mornings upon arrival to the office, the entire space is saturated with the smell of stale cooking grease.
Anyway, that's bad enough, but it gets much worse: Since October 2004, I've noticed that on most afternoons, at least 3 times a week, from about 3:00pm-6:00pm, my office fills with fumes of a chlorine-tinted, heavy, burnt cooking odor. The smell is definitely coming from the deli, because I can smell the same thing in the lobby if I go downstairs. The only way I can properly describe the odor is like maybe they're cleaning the ovens with bleach and it mixes with burnt food. It definitely has a chlorine odor, and its kind of a 'burnt foody' smelling. I unfortunately can't pin down the composition of the fumes, because I’ve never smelt anything like it before.
The fumes are so strong that by the first hour, I am dizzy, disoriented, and unable to concentrate. My eyes burn slightly from it, too. The first month of this, I developed congested lungs, and would 'decongest' for like 3 hours each night after work by coughing-up phlegm, but I must have gained a tolerance to it, because that doesn't happen much anymore. My lungs still do get inflamed a little after breathing the fumes for about an hour. If I take a walk outside, my head clears up within twenty minutes, so I know the physical reaction is from the fumes.
The building is old, so we have opening windows, which is the only way to combat this. So I leave the windows as far open as I can tolerate (but it’s 7 degrees fahrenheit today), and run a fan at the window. As much as this makes it a little better, the fumes are still very cloying, and I still get dizzy with burning eyes. My superior here knows about it, but he sits on the opposite end of the office, and the fumes do not reach him very often. He knows I have a problem with it, but he has told me to keep up with the issue on my own end, so he clearly does not want to get involved. Which is fine, but I can’t take it to him.
And by the way, yes, I've taken it up with building management and the acting manager, and that's not what I want to focus on. It is extremely frustrating because it takes about 20 identical requests to get anything done with management. I have sent about a dozen emails to the building manager since October 2004, and I really only complain when the odors are particularly strong. I smell them everyday incidentally, but some days I can deal with it better than others. Management promises that they're doing something about it, and that's all I can get from them.
So here's my question: Obviously the deli is doing some sort of chemical cleaning to their equipment after the lunch crowd rush, as I always smell the chemical fumes start around 3:00 pm or 4:00 pm, and it usually lasts three hours. I have no experience of kitchens and cooking, as I have never worked in a restaurant at all. Therefore, do delis clean their ovens and grills daily like that? Do they use chemicals? Do they use bleach? Do they 'burn off' food after the big crowds? What is responsible for making me so goddamn dizzy? Is there not proper ventilation for the building? Why are the fumes traveling all the way up here like 30 floors? Is this normal for older buildings? Does anyone have a similar experience? What did you do? Is this something I should bring up with OSHA or the EPA?
You smell this thirty floors up? This doesn't sound right and perhaps you may even have success with a fire inspector. I am not that familiar with fire codes, but I think I read that most fire codes mandate that individual floors require separation from each other as to the flow of air so that toxic fumes from a fire in one floor can not easily get to other floors. What if they had a fire in that kitchen? A quick call to the fire inspectors would likely answer the code question and if it is a violation they can then put real pressure on the deli.
posted by caddis at 1:48 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by caddis at 1:48 PM on January 27, 2005
I neglected to voice the particulars of my concern: long term damage to your body. These toxins (whatever they may be) can be metabolized in your body, causing liver damage. Also, since you've been noticing congestion/phlegm in your lungs, that means that the lung tissue is being severely irritated, a conditional that can lead to emphysema.
The OSHA website can give suggestions on how to go about your legal rights.
posted by Specklet at 2:02 PM on January 27, 2005
The OSHA website can give suggestions on how to go about your legal rights.
posted by Specklet at 2:02 PM on January 27, 2005
Response by poster: OMG that is really scary, you guys. And yes, I smell exactly the fumes in their kitchen up here on my 20-something floor. There's a direct line of exhaust somewhere behind my desk, but I cannot pinpoint exactly if it's a vent or a seam in the shoddy ceiling or behind a bookcase, and honestly i'm too defeated to get on a chair and start sticking my nose into dark crevases (lol).
Thanks for the encouragement and sober facts, guys. Does anyone know the smell that i'm talking about? What goes on during the normal quotidan cleaning of an average shitty deli?
posted by naxosaxur at 2:07 PM on January 27, 2005
Thanks for the encouragement and sober facts, guys. Does anyone know the smell that i'm talking about? What goes on during the normal quotidan cleaning of an average shitty deli?
posted by naxosaxur at 2:07 PM on January 27, 2005
I suspect there is a leak in the venting system, a bad fan, or at the very least, it needs a serious cleaning. A cleaning is of course, the lesser of the two evils, but probably still very expensive for a 30 story building. There may be a financial reason for this, especially if your office is the only one affected. Have you asked other people in the building if they have the same symptoms? As far as complaints to the authorities go, I would tread lightly until I knew what I was up against. The landlord might be less than thrilled with a complaint, but then again...it might be the only way to solve the issue.
posted by lobstah at 2:08 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by lobstah at 2:08 PM on January 27, 2005
Chlorine gas? All the symptoms you're describing sound like someone breathing in chlorine or fluorine gas. You're basically burning your lungs and esophagus with each inhale. If you're getting overcome like you describe, I'd get the hell out of there while you can.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:29 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:29 PM on January 27, 2005
Not esophagus, but the bronchus and trachea. Sorry.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:30 PM on January 27, 2005
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:30 PM on January 27, 2005
That's definitely a public health issue. You've got two basic avenues of recourse, from what I understand (IANAL):
1) You should first call the city Health department to have an inspector come by. If things are as bad as you say, they should almost certainly lead to a citation and a fine for the building and/or the deli.
2) If it really comes down to it, you might even consider calling OSHA, since this is also basically a workplace-safety issue. Granted, that means potentially putting your employer on the hook, as well, but if they're not already actively trying to get this solved, I wouldn't cut them an awful lot of slack. No matter how much you might like them--if you do--they're mistreating you terribly by letting this go on.
Given that last point, I'd also just start with making a stand with your employer. Whether or not you threaten them with OSHA right off the bat, you should _not_ accept these conditions. Insist on working from home, or some other type of accommodation, until they deal with it.
posted by LairBob at 2:44 PM on January 27, 2005
1) You should first call the city Health department to have an inspector come by. If things are as bad as you say, they should almost certainly lead to a citation and a fine for the building and/or the deli.
2) If it really comes down to it, you might even consider calling OSHA, since this is also basically a workplace-safety issue. Granted, that means potentially putting your employer on the hook, as well, but if they're not already actively trying to get this solved, I wouldn't cut them an awful lot of slack. No matter how much you might like them--if you do--they're mistreating you terribly by letting this go on.
Given that last point, I'd also just start with making a stand with your employer. Whether or not you threaten them with OSHA right off the bat, you should _not_ accept these conditions. Insist on working from home, or some other type of accommodation, until they deal with it.
posted by LairBob at 2:44 PM on January 27, 2005
If you are employed by a company and they have placed you there you fall under their workers compensation protection and they have a duty to protect you (the general duty clause, amongst others). Namely, this means that a Industrial hygienist (IH) will need to come in and take samples of the air if you have a complaint. This will cost roughly $120/hr plus travel/report time. Depending on the suspected agent they will take air samples, surface samples, and/or CO2, CO, RH, and temperature readings. This should be done over a prolonged period to understand the nature of the presumed hazard.
If your company does not wish to go this route, yes call OSHA. They have an anonymous method to contact them, but this only means it is anonymous to the employer (it is very easy to tell who called in the report to the seasoned safety professional). The EPA does not protect workers, they protect the environment, they will have no creed here. Also, make sure you check with your State agencies, they supercede Federal agencies if they have the proper bureaucracy in place. If you are not employed or are the employer, this will be a much harder road to travel, which may include litigation.
Document, document, and document. If you don't write it down it doesn't exist. You may very well be in a civil suit against the manufacture of the kitchen hoods or any related party, and this could be several years from now. Start a daily log and do not stop asking for help until you quit. Even if you do quit, you still have rights, whether or not your employee would like for you to know.
Right now, I suggest complaining of a workplace injury and ask to see a doctor. If you employer refuses call OSHA (or your state OSHA) immediately and ask them to come visit to make sure everything is in order, which it most likely will not be. When you see the doctor talk through your problem and ask personal advice on the risk. Bring that back and go forward. If you see a IH professional in there, relax and know things are happening, if not keep going.
Theres more to say, but it's excessive at this point. Nonetheless, this is something you should address. Work should not do this to you and the law says so. Email me if you have concerns beyond those addressed above.
posted by sled at 2:48 PM on January 27, 2005
If your company does not wish to go this route, yes call OSHA. They have an anonymous method to contact them, but this only means it is anonymous to the employer (it is very easy to tell who called in the report to the seasoned safety professional). The EPA does not protect workers, they protect the environment, they will have no creed here. Also, make sure you check with your State agencies, they supercede Federal agencies if they have the proper bureaucracy in place. If you are not employed or are the employer, this will be a much harder road to travel, which may include litigation.
Document, document, and document. If you don't write it down it doesn't exist. You may very well be in a civil suit against the manufacture of the kitchen hoods or any related party, and this could be several years from now. Start a daily log and do not stop asking for help until you quit. Even if you do quit, you still have rights, whether or not your employee would like for you to know.
Right now, I suggest complaining of a workplace injury and ask to see a doctor. If you employer refuses call OSHA (or your state OSHA) immediately and ask them to come visit to make sure everything is in order, which it most likely will not be. When you see the doctor talk through your problem and ask personal advice on the risk. Bring that back and go forward. If you see a IH professional in there, relax and know things are happening, if not keep going.
Theres more to say, but it's excessive at this point. Nonetheless, this is something you should address. Work should not do this to you and the law says so. Email me if you have concerns beyond those addressed above.
posted by sled at 2:48 PM on January 27, 2005
I once worked in an antique, asbestos-lined building. Half of the basement was storage, the other half was occupied by a printing press. The printers were almost as old as the building and they smoked cigars. When the cigar smoke mixed with their ink and stuff, the smell was overwhelming. I wore a respirator when i had to go to the basement storage.
Tried to deal with this on my own, but it turned out that the air quality problems could only be reported by building management. I, as a tenant, could not file a complaint. The building manager was a 90-year-old Mason (we rented a space in the Masonic building) and he, as a rule, refused to speak to women. So, no help there. My complaints fell not so much on deaf ears as on a retreating, suspendered back.
This was Texas. Hopefully, your state has laws that are more congenial to the suffering leasee. In my experience, I had to rely on the management, to no avail.
Have you looked into threatening a Workers' Comp claim? Maybe if your employer puts pressure on the building management, things might move more quickly.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:37 PM on January 27, 2005
Tried to deal with this on my own, but it turned out that the air quality problems could only be reported by building management. I, as a tenant, could not file a complaint. The building manager was a 90-year-old Mason (we rented a space in the Masonic building) and he, as a rule, refused to speak to women. So, no help there. My complaints fell not so much on deaf ears as on a retreating, suspendered back.
This was Texas. Hopefully, your state has laws that are more congenial to the suffering leasee. In my experience, I had to rely on the management, to no avail.
Have you looked into threatening a Workers' Comp claim? Maybe if your employer puts pressure on the building management, things might move more quickly.
posted by mudpuppie at 7:37 PM on January 27, 2005
On preview, what Lairbob & sled said. If you started out coughing up phlegm for a while & it's since stopped, while the exposure continues, you can't rule out the possibility until seeinmg a doctor that the cilia in your lungs has been damaged & is no longer cleaning them out effectively (should recover once exposure is eliminated). I'm wondering if they're using caustic to clean out the ovens.
Ask your supervisor for another office - document the response if unsuccessful. His disinterest is due to :
1) He's not bothered so doesn't see the problem;
2) He's aware of it but too lazy to take action &/or doesn't realize the implications to him & his superiors;
3) Understands the implications but is afraid personnally for making it an issue.
It doesn't matter - get the Health Inspector in/go to OSHA. Do everything in writing - keep separate copies outside your office, just in case. Keep your past performance appraisals. Both your company, the Deli & the building management are in some serious risk if this is health threatening. Your concern is your own health & making sure you build an iron-clad, documented case. If none of the above incremental steps seem to get action, talk to a lawyer.
Good luck.
posted by Pressed Rat at 8:09 AM on January 28, 2005
Ask your supervisor for another office - document the response if unsuccessful. His disinterest is due to :
1) He's not bothered so doesn't see the problem;
2) He's aware of it but too lazy to take action &/or doesn't realize the implications to him & his superiors;
3) Understands the implications but is afraid personnally for making it an issue.
It doesn't matter - get the Health Inspector in/go to OSHA. Do everything in writing - keep separate copies outside your office, just in case. Keep your past performance appraisals. Both your company, the Deli & the building management are in some serious risk if this is health threatening. Your concern is your own health & making sure you build an iron-clad, documented case. If none of the above incremental steps seem to get action, talk to a lawyer.
Good luck.
posted by Pressed Rat at 8:09 AM on January 28, 2005
Response by poster: Thanks everyone. I'll keep you updated of my progress as I miserably fight this annoying battle.
posted by naxosaxur at 10:55 AM on January 28, 2005
posted by naxosaxur at 10:55 AM on January 28, 2005
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Possibly, but it doesn't matter what is making you ill, the important thing is to get the hell out of there! You've been putting up with this since October? That's insane!
There is something not right about the ventilation in the building. It could be that the deli's vents are malfunctioning, misused, or nonexistent. Even older buildings must pass code, so who knows what's going on. That's something for the building management to suss out.
If I were you, I'd raise holy hell with my boss.
posted by Specklet at 1:47 PM on January 27, 2005