Can it be done successfully?
January 3, 2010 9:44 AM Subscribe
Help me figure out how to make lasagna using Asian flavors and ingredients.
I love Ming Tsai's Asian Sloppy Joes, but it has given me a hankering to try to make a lasagna type dish using Asian* ingredients and flavors. I'm most interested in using chicken or ground beef. What sort of noodle would I use? I was thinking of the wide rice noodles, or maybe wonton skins, but they both seem to pose challenges. What sort of sauce? And what could I use in place of ricotta and parmesan? And would I use any different cooking technique?
I guess I'm talking about an Asian pasta casserole, really. Any tips or ideas?
Would this be disgusting?
*"Asian" is obviously very broad. What Asian flavors and ingredients would most lend themselves to this sort of dish? Could I mix and match?
I love Ming Tsai's Asian Sloppy Joes, but it has given me a hankering to try to make a lasagna type dish using Asian* ingredients and flavors. I'm most interested in using chicken or ground beef. What sort of noodle would I use? I was thinking of the wide rice noodles, or maybe wonton skins, but they both seem to pose challenges. What sort of sauce? And what could I use in place of ricotta and parmesan? And would I use any different cooking technique?
I guess I'm talking about an Asian pasta casserole, really. Any tips or ideas?
Would this be disgusting?
*"Asian" is obviously very broad. What Asian flavors and ingredients would most lend themselves to this sort of dish? Could I mix and match?
Cheese doesn't show up much in eastern Asian cuisine, so if you're going for a soy sauce flavor maybe you can swap the ricotta out for tofu and work from there.
A better idea, I think, would be to go down to India. I'll bet you could make a really tasty lasagna/saag paneer fusion.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:51 AM on January 3, 2010
A better idea, I think, would be to go down to India. I'll bet you could make a really tasty lasagna/saag paneer fusion.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:51 AM on January 3, 2010
Heston Blumenthal uses a little star anise and fish sauce for his ragu.
posted by ashaw at 10:00 AM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ashaw at 10:00 AM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think Ming Tsai's Asian Sloppy Joes works because the ingredients, techniques, and the final product are not too far off from either Sloppy Joes or something from East Asian cuisine (e.g. Taiwanese-style ground pork). I can't think of anything similar to a casserole or lasagna in the East Asian cuisines I am familiar with (Korean, Japanese, Chinese). You could try layering things like meats and vegetables and noodles, but to me the final product would just be weird, as there wouldn't be anything in the East Asian cuisines I could relate it to, and so it would end up kind of like a "Mexican casserole" recipe from a soup can label.
I like Faint of Butt's idea of a lasagna/saag paneer fusion. This seems a more natural fusion than trying to make a casserole with tofu and rice noodles.
posted by needled at 10:07 AM on January 3, 2010
I like Faint of Butt's idea of a lasagna/saag paneer fusion. This seems a more natural fusion than trying to make a casserole with tofu and rice noodles.
posted by needled at 10:07 AM on January 3, 2010
I agree that this doesn't sound like it would work. The main thing that comes to mind when I think of lasagna is pasta layered with sauce and cheese. Cheese, and by extension most dairy products (so that includes creamy sauces, etc.) don't really feature much in Asian cuisine (yes, and someone can nitpick and point to Tibetans putting yak butter in everything, but really, I don't think anybody would enjoy a yak butter lasagna). A tofu lasagna sounds like it would be pretty horrible too, since you wouldn't get any of the richness/creaminess that you would associate with real cheese.
posted by pravit at 10:27 AM on January 3, 2010
posted by pravit at 10:27 AM on January 3, 2010
I would think that something like garlic sauce could be leveraged with a meat mixture of the sort you'd find in a wonton (ground with some green onion and ginger, cut with breadcrumbs, with an egg as a binder) to replace tomato sauce and meat, but finding something that holds the structure together like ricotta is really the trick. Plus, figuring out what to do on top of the finished dish (melted mozzarella replacement) would be tricky.
So, maybe it's possible to work with ricotta rather than replacing it? Ricotta can be flavored fairly easily, so maybe basing a sauce choice around what you do with ricotta (red chili ricotta? ginger-lime ricotta?) would be a better bet.
One thing I might do to mitigate the loss of melted cheese on top would be to submerge a piece of the lasagna in broth (a pork/soy broth for an Asian-flavored pork sausage meat filling thing, maybe?), turning it into a structured noodle soup.
Or, going a totally opposite direction, how about a cold Asian slaw-inspired lasagna? I'd still use ricotta to hold it together, but you could probably utilize cold (cooked), marinated seafood with an Asian-vinaigrette of sorts, building in some vegetable layers in the structure. Red cabbage, seaweed, that sort of thing.
Let me know what, if anything, you end up doing with this.
posted by GamblingBlues at 10:41 AM on January 3, 2010
So, maybe it's possible to work with ricotta rather than replacing it? Ricotta can be flavored fairly easily, so maybe basing a sauce choice around what you do with ricotta (red chili ricotta? ginger-lime ricotta?) would be a better bet.
One thing I might do to mitigate the loss of melted cheese on top would be to submerge a piece of the lasagna in broth (a pork/soy broth for an Asian-flavored pork sausage meat filling thing, maybe?), turning it into a structured noodle soup.
Or, going a totally opposite direction, how about a cold Asian slaw-inspired lasagna? I'd still use ricotta to hold it together, but you could probably utilize cold (cooked), marinated seafood with an Asian-vinaigrette of sorts, building in some vegetable layers in the structure. Red cabbage, seaweed, that sort of thing.
Let me know what, if anything, you end up doing with this.
posted by GamblingBlues at 10:41 AM on January 3, 2010
Also: if you do try to go through with this, I think a traditional lasagna with a couple twists might work out better than actually trying to substitute cheese for some "Asian" ingredient.
You could try lasagna with a rich, creamy Indian tomato-based butter chicken sauce and your usual cheese and pasta. However it takes a lot of practice to get this type of sauce right.
Another idea - instead of the usual red tomato sauce, you could try using the type of spicy/sweet red gochujang-based sauce that Koreans use for stir-fried chicken or stir-fried squid. You'd pair this with the usual cheese and pasta.
The only reason I suggest this is that I've eaten at a couple Korean table-cooking restaurants where they give you the option of putting white mozzerella-like cheese into the mix, and it actually works. Not to mention Korean "army base stew" which sometimes has a slice of Kraft cheese in it, although it usually melts into the soup.
Yet another idea - kimchi lasagna. This would be lasagna with the usual tomato sauce, cheese, and pasta, but with chopped-up kimchi. I've had kimchi pizza and it actually worked, so this may be a possibility.
posted by pravit at 10:51 AM on January 3, 2010
You could try lasagna with a rich, creamy Indian tomato-based butter chicken sauce and your usual cheese and pasta. However it takes a lot of practice to get this type of sauce right.
Another idea - instead of the usual red tomato sauce, you could try using the type of spicy/sweet red gochujang-based sauce that Koreans use for stir-fried chicken or stir-fried squid. You'd pair this with the usual cheese and pasta.
The only reason I suggest this is that I've eaten at a couple Korean table-cooking restaurants where they give you the option of putting white mozzerella-like cheese into the mix, and it actually works. Not to mention Korean "army base stew" which sometimes has a slice of Kraft cheese in it, although it usually melts into the soup.
Yet another idea - kimchi lasagna. This would be lasagna with the usual tomato sauce, cheese, and pasta, but with chopped-up kimchi. I've had kimchi pizza and it actually worked, so this may be a possibility.
posted by pravit at 10:51 AM on January 3, 2010
I've had vegan lasagnas that used tofu instead of cheese. While they obviously lacked the stringy, gooey richness of traditional lasagna, they were still tasty and recognizable as lasagna. So if you want to go that route, I don't think it will ruin anything.
On the other hand, I can say as an enthusiastic fan of thai chicken pizza that mozzarella is not always incompatible with asian flavors. I've also very much enjoyed italian-type pastas with thai peanut sauce.
If I were going to make an asian-inspired lasagna, it would have thai peanut sauce instead of italian red sauce, tofu instead of ricotta, and then shredded carrots, green onions, chicken, cilantro, and crushed peanuts throughout the layers with plenty of mozzarella. Yum. I might try that next weekend, in fact.
posted by vytae at 11:35 AM on January 3, 2010
On the other hand, I can say as an enthusiastic fan of thai chicken pizza that mozzarella is not always incompatible with asian flavors. I've also very much enjoyed italian-type pastas with thai peanut sauce.
If I were going to make an asian-inspired lasagna, it would have thai peanut sauce instead of italian red sauce, tofu instead of ricotta, and then shredded carrots, green onions, chicken, cilantro, and crushed peanuts throughout the layers with plenty of mozzarella. Yum. I might try that next weekend, in fact.
posted by vytae at 11:35 AM on January 3, 2010
thai coconut curry sauce?
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:58 AM on January 3, 2010
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 11:58 AM on January 3, 2010
Jaquilynne once sent me a lasagne recipe that was really non-traditional, with mushroom filling, and I added a butternut squash layer, and not a lot of cheese. So, I think it can be done.
Maybe use wonton sheets instead of wheat flour pasta. Think about the flavors of chinese dumplings - pork with ginger, scallions and sherry, wrapped in wheat pasta, dipped in light soy sauce.
Possible layers: chopped sauteed mushrooms sauteed in peanut oil with a bit of sherry, sauteed chopped bok choy with some soy sauce, ginger and scallions, tofu instead of cheese, layer in something ginger-y, maybe thinly sliced broccoli.
Please do report back; this sounds like delicious fun.
posted by theora55 at 12:04 PM on January 3, 2010
Maybe use wonton sheets instead of wheat flour pasta. Think about the flavors of chinese dumplings - pork with ginger, scallions and sherry, wrapped in wheat pasta, dipped in light soy sauce.
Possible layers: chopped sauteed mushrooms sauteed in peanut oil with a bit of sherry, sauteed chopped bok choy with some soy sauce, ginger and scallions, tofu instead of cheese, layer in something ginger-y, maybe thinly sliced broccoli.
Please do report back; this sounds like delicious fun.
posted by theora55 at 12:04 PM on January 3, 2010
Ground pork or chicken with Thai aromatics (ginger, garlic, lemongrass, chile, fish sauce); stir through a variety of greens (mint, cilantro, some sort of finely shredded Asian green); layer with rice noodles. Pour over a coconut cream, nutmeg and rice flour 'bechamel'. Top with crispy fried shallots.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:15 PM on January 3, 2010
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:15 PM on January 3, 2010
Response by poster: Good ideas here. I'll report back!
posted by n'muakolo at 6:25 AM on January 4, 2010
posted by n'muakolo at 6:25 AM on January 4, 2010
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posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 9:50 AM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]