He IS heavy, he's my brother

December 26, 2009 4:39 PM

I'm closing the family bank/charity. What do I say when the next sibling asks for a "loan"?

I have many siblings; most of them lurch from crisis to crisis (declaring bankruptcy, living in their cars/on friends' couches, cashing in retirement accounts, etc.). My mother has paid for a lot of this behavior but is thankfully toughening up lately (because of some latent backbone but also financial pressures).

I am the youngest and have been suckered/guilt-tripped/stupid enough to "loan" money to various siblings that I generally do not get back. (I know, I know, don't loan money to friends/relatives.) During the Christmas phone calls, I learned that one of my sisters is facing eviction unless she gets a job next month. I know I am going to get the call, and would like constructive ways to respond instead of just screening my calls.

While my financial house is not entirely in order, I am getting more and more disgusted with the way my siblings operate. The sister in question is in her 50s, has declared bankruptcy at least once, hasn't worked since getting fired from her job in fall 2008, cashed out her 401k (for the third time), and has been basically waiting around until all the money is gone. Her husband is also not working/trying.

This will be an ongoing problem, especially after my mom is gone (she is in her 80s). I love my brothers and sisters. How do I manage to keep a relationship with them without subsidizing them for the rest of their lives?

posted by sfkiddo to Human Relations (25 answers total)

Just say "no."

They may hate you for it and sever their relationship with you but you have no obligation to support indolent relatives.
posted by dfriedman at 4:49 PM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]

Just say "I'm sorry, I just can't.". If they press for details, say that you really don't feel comfortable discussing money. Repeat as needed. Love doesn't mean money. Separate the two, and be gentle but firm. Same line every request.
posted by kellyblah at 4:51 PM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]

"Gee, I am really sorry I can't help you financially right now. Can I help you find some social services/church groups that may be able to lend you a hand? Can I help you locate the local food bank?"

Wife of 445supermag
posted by 445supermag at 4:52 PM on December 26, 2009 [6 favorites]

"I'd like to be in a position to help you, but at the moment I have other priorities for my finances."

If they press beyond that it's time to start ignoring them.
posted by fire&wings at 4:52 PM on December 26, 2009

"Oh my, that sounds terrible. I wish I could help, but can't right now. I'm so sorry. [But don't be really.] I'm actually having my own financial problems at the moment; it's difficult for a lot of us in this economy. I hope you two work things out; definitely let me know if there's any other way I can help aside from money."

If she rudely persists in asking why you can't help, just repeat the above ad infinitum. "I'm having my own financial problems at the moment." "I wish I could help, but can't right now." "I'm having my own financial problems at the moment." "I wish I could help, but can't right now." Etc.

You just have to say no and stick to it, then love them in other ways that don't involve money. If they decide your monetary support is necessary for their return love, they're assholes. The problem will then be theirs, not yours.
posted by mediareport at 4:58 PM on December 26, 2009

Best answer: All good responses. I'll add another possibility to the pot, which might nip the "why not"s in the bud, and remind them that you've already done your fair share.

"Over the years, I've done my best to help everyone in the family as much as I can. But now I have to look out for my own future, so I just can't do that anymore."

Then don't get drawn into an argument. My default backup answer when someone presses on an issue is, "I know that's not the answer you wanted to hear, but it's the only answer I have."
posted by The Deej at 5:02 PM on December 26, 2009 [30 favorites]

All of these suggestions are excellent, especially The Deej's .They could be hard to carry out, however, in reality, because they are your siblings and you love them and/or feel guilty about helping them. You may also not want to be yelled at, called bad names, etc., just for standing up for yourself.

When I had to tell a loved one who was on drugs that he could no longer borrow money or stay in my home, I had a friend near me as I made the phone call. That way, I wouldn't "embarrass" myself in front of her by giving in and backing down. I made the call, said what had to be said, and endured some insults. While these insults were going on I grabbed my friend's hand and squeezed it tight, and that helped me endure what was going on...it took my mind away from the emotional pain I was feeling. I had to make a few phone calls like that, before it sank in that I was really serious about not giving him money anymore, and you'll probably need to repeat yourself a few times, as others have said above.

I know you said you just don't want to screen your calls, but for what it's worth sometimes that's the only way they'll get the message. It also leaves out a lot of fruitless arguing, and the pain and aggravation that comes with that. If they don't get the message after numerous phone calls, then screening them may be the only way to get them to leave you alone; hopefully that won't be the case.

Best of luck to you.
posted by Melismata at 5:07 PM on December 26, 2009 [5 favorites]

I have a friend in Nepal who works long hours as a tour guide, then sends the vast majority of his money to his parents and brother, neither of whom work. This is because the family is a single unit, and whatever he earns is not his, but his family's. The concept of the individual as distinct from the family isn't a universal one.

Is there a chance you could see your (relative) wealth as your family's wealth? That it's not yours to give away, but everyone's to share? It seems to me that it's easier for you to change how you feel about this than it is for you to try and convince your siblings to still have a good relationship with you while you cut them off.

The other option is for you to feel as you do, and try to change their minds about it. Do they know much about your financial situation? Could you say "times are hard, I haven't got much to spare"? Or, more simply, just "I can't lend money out any more due to my financial situation".

On preview: If they decide your monetary support is necessary for their return love, they're assholes. The problem will then be theirs, not yours.
They may very well see your wise financial decisions as good luck (which explains why they don't improve their habits, and they're just 'unlucky'). In that case, if you refuse to share this good fortune with your family, they could understandably feel slighted. I don't agree with this, but it would be simplifying things to pretend that they're either okay people who have no problem with being cut off, or they're 'assholes'.
posted by twirlypen at 5:08 PM on December 26, 2009

Best answer: Is there a chance you could see your (relative) wealth as your family's wealth? That it's not yours to give away, but everyone's to share?

What? No. It is a tough economy, but it's not sfkiddo's job to prop hir family up at hir own expense. Giving money to family like that means it's never, ever ending, that there's always one more thing that needs to be paid for. I've watched my mother in this cycle with my grandfather for thirty years. Spoiler alert: he still doesn't have his shit together, because he never had to work at it. My mom and our other relatives were there to bail him out.

Sfkiddo, you have to decide what you're willing to lose and never give anything beyond that. You're not going to get it back, so if you can spare something, see it as a gift. If you can't, you can't and there's nothing wrong with that. Your relatives are probably going to call you names and be cruel to you. If they do that, though, you were in essence buying their love anyway. Better to find out now.

I'm sorry if that sounds harsh. Like I say, I've been watching this exact same cycle perpetuate for way too long. It's almost comical now, the things my grandfather will say to try to con my mom out of money. It's amazing, how his story changes depending on which of his children he's talking to.
posted by sugarfish at 5:18 PM on December 26, 2009 [14 favorites]

This old AskMe covers a similar situation, and has some good advice.
posted by deadmessenger at 6:22 PM on December 26, 2009

Is there a chance you could see your (relative) wealth as your family's wealth? That it's not yours to give away, but everyone's to share?

Oh, they're assholes. This is not Nepal.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:36 PM on December 26, 2009 [7 favorites]

Lie. Start putting out the word, right now, that you are in serious financial hardship. That you might lose the house. That you are in debt up to your eyeballs and can't make minimum payments anymore.

If you want to crank this up to 11, start calling your siblings and asking for loans.
posted by LarryC at 7:51 PM on December 26, 2009 [10 favorites]

We have several close friends and quite a few family members who have been really hurt by this economy. Some of them are desperately trying to help themselves by taking second jobs, putting their teenagers to work, cutting way back on spending and selling some of their "luxury" items. However, others don't seem to understand the reality of their situation and have not found jobs of any kind nor changed any spending habits that we can see. We, however (through our own hard work) were in a situation to prosper in these conditions, and they are aware that we are doing well. We are just holding our breaths, waiting for the requests for "temporary" help. We would gladly help those who are helping themselves, but I suspect they will not be ones to ask. We have a child entering college next year, and will use that as the reason we cannot help. From a practical standpoint, I would find one good reason beforehand such as that, and use it when you say no. I've found that a general "I'm sorry, I can't." is not nearly as effective as a specific reason why you can't. I agree with LarryC, make one up if you need to. Credit card debt is a good one, not easily checked, and who can really say how much is too much?
posted by raisingsand at 9:04 PM on December 26, 2009 [2 favorites]

Lots of good advice.

I'd like to add one thing. Several times people suggested saying that you "can't help right now". The "right now" is a way of softening the blow, but it's also leaving the door wide open to future requests. Ditch the phrase "right now" and close the door a bit. Of course they'll come asking again, but at least you're trying to end the cycle.
posted by 26.2 at 9:09 PM on December 26, 2009

"I'm sorry. I can't afford to help you financially--I have my own financial issues I need to take care of."

You say yourself that your financial house is not in order. That's your answer--you're not obliged to provide for your adult siblings at your own expense.

And I could not disagree more with twirlypen. It's not like your siblings are back home on the farm where you will one day retire tilling the soil and keeping the house in order, as is probably the case with his friend in Nepal. This isn't a cultural situation where some members of a family go to the city to work and others stay back in the village to care for the parents and homestead; this is a cultural situation where everyone is an independent economic unit, but some people are rubbish at it.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:22 PM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]

While many of the suggestions here have been helpful, I feel like the real issue isn't so much what to say, but dealing with whatever is preventing you from saying SOMETHING. I mean, let's be honest, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to say no nicely.

Look at your priorities. If your top priority is taking care of your siblings, well, keep giving them money or assist them in other ways. If it is yourself and your family, then you just need to dig deep and get the guts to lay down the law. It may make them yell at you, it may cause you to irreparably damage your relationship with them. These are consequences you will have to accept if you no longer wish to be burdened with their requests.

If your siblings realize they aren't getting any money from you, they will either A. find someone else to bug, B. live in a box or C. figure out a way to get by. Sometimes you have to let people sink or swim.
posted by Elminster24 at 9:29 PM on December 26, 2009 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I have a pretty simple rule, which has helped me with my 5 siblings. I'm definitely the "best off" of all of us, although this economy has been hard for me too. However, several of my siblings persist in the belief that I should give them money for past injustices, or because I've been so lucky. (Seriously, to anyone asking for money, suggesting that the person from whom you are asking for money is "lucky" is simply the easiest possible was to piss them off.)

I don't tell them this rule, of course, but here it is. Each sibling gets one gift of money. I call it a loan, and of course it depends on the circumstances. If they pay me back, then the gift isn't used. If they don't then I don't have to feel bad. I gave them the money, in my mind. But they never get another "loan". Any more requests get met with "I'm sorry, I can't do that."

If they press, I tell them that they had their gift, and we're done. On the other hand, a brother who borrowed a couple thousand and paid it back, well he still gets loans, if I have it available.

This rule has saved me a lot of questioning, and I think it is as simple as it gets. Pretty easy to stick to, as well.
posted by Invoke at 9:52 PM on December 26, 2009 [3 favorites]

twirlypen I see what you're saying, but I think you miss the point of the Nepalese family.

In families that share financial resources there are also shared responsibilities and burdens. Plenty of families decide to have one person as breadwinner while another is in school or a SAH parent. There's a balance to the contributions and the family safety net is there to catch everyone who falls.

What sfkiddo is describing isn't that kind of family safety net. sfkiddo is describing mooching relatives who don't attempt to contribute.
posted by 26.2 at 10:32 PM on December 26, 2009 [2 favorites]

I did this. Quite recently. I can say that you'll get a lot of static, feedback, whatever you want to call it - and a lot of guilt trips. Stay strong and know that you're doing the right thing. Don't fall prey to the awful things that will come from your siblings and possibly your parents, too.
posted by squorch at 11:17 PM on December 26, 2009

twirlypen I see what you're saying, but I think you miss the point of the Nepalese family.

Yeah, that came across poorly. I wasn't trying to suggest that the culture there is the same here, just that trying to 'keep a relationship with them' while cutting them off will be difficult. It may be easier to share some money, while making it clear it's not a precursor of more to come, than it will be to cut them off and still expect a friendly relationship.
posted by twirlypen at 12:11 AM on December 27, 2009

Your question sounds like you're a character from the series Arrested Development! googling/watching this will give you a humourous angle. (I stopped watching after a few ep's though because it was too frustrating that this character kept giving money to his family against his best judgement).
posted by yoHighness at 4:38 AM on December 27, 2009

You make a joke about you being a bank, so maybe behave like a bank. Mail then "statements," showing how much they've borrowed to date, how much they've re-payed, and how much interest they'd owe if you really were a bank and charged a competetive rate. (but don't actually charge interest, they're still family).
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:39 AM on December 27, 2009

Family or not, I think you *should* be charging modest interest, at least in line with the inflation rate. On one hand it makes the loan seem more "legit", and on the other hand if you hadn't loaned them money you'd have it in some sort of savings account, where it would be earning modest interest, so you're losing out in that way as well by making the loan.
posted by cmyr at 8:29 AM on December 27, 2009

Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughtful responses so far. This is something I've been struggling with for years.

kathrineg, I'm frustrated but am not just being overly judgmental with this situation. I definitely do NOT think "that everyone who is making money is doing it by hard work, and everyone who isn't making money is lazy..." I do, however, think that someone who has lost two houses, cashed out three 401(k)s, didn't file taxes for 7 years, etc., etc., and is over 50 years old needs to take a bit of responsibility and grow up already. (Oops, there's that frustration again!) What makes it worse is that there are multiple siblings like this; how do I give $$ to one and not the others?

twirleypen, that's an interesting idea, but seems like emotional extortion. I am going to think of constructive ways to help without being a financial enabler.
posted by sfkiddo at 10:39 AM on December 27, 2009

ymmv of course, but what's worked for other people is to say, "Here you go. It's a gift, not a loan, and it's the last I'm giving." It might be too late for this version, but for some reason people have never asked them again.
posted by small_ruminant at 11:45 AM on December 28, 2009