When will check writing be obsolete?
November 4, 2009 10:20 AM Subscribe
When will check writing be obsolete?
The only time I write a check is to pay my rent. On a few occasions I've written a check to a friend to pay them back for a concert ticket or what-have-you, but it is becoming increasingly easy to pay for things online.
Is there any payment method in the works that would make it commonplace to pay rent online or transfer money easily between friends without having to write a check or use cash?
When can we get rid of these pesky checkbooks?!?!
The only time I write a check is to pay my rent. On a few occasions I've written a check to a friend to pay them back for a concert ticket or what-have-you, but it is becoming increasingly easy to pay for things online.
Is there any payment method in the works that would make it commonplace to pay rent online or transfer money easily between friends without having to write a check or use cash?
When can we get rid of these pesky checkbooks?!?!
Well my bank, and probably most banks, will basically print and mail checks for you.
I use online billpayer for everything, including rent. For big companies that can handle it, they just use an electronic transfer. But for smaller businesses/people like my landlord, I input the payment just like any other, and then the bank prints and sends a check for me.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:24 AM on November 4, 2009
I use online billpayer for everything, including rent. For big companies that can handle it, they just use an electronic transfer. But for smaller businesses/people like my landlord, I input the payment just like any other, and then the bank prints and sends a check for me.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:24 AM on November 4, 2009
I can pay everything I might pay with a old school check through my on-line banking (Citibank). I request checks to be sent to my landlord for my rent and have sent them to my my mom and sister for various things. They get them through the mail, and I don't even have to pay for the stamp. They can be one time, or on a recurring basis. I have some regular checks... they are about 7 years old. I think I've actually written one or two in the last two years.
posted by kimdog at 10:25 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by kimdog at 10:25 AM on November 4, 2009
(I think the checks they print comes out as one of "my" checks, so I imagine you do need a checking *account.* But you never need a check book or paper checks of your own.)
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:26 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:26 AM on November 4, 2009
I just opened a USAA checking account and paid my rent via their online bill-pay for the first time last month. My landlord hasn't called to complain yet, so I'm assuming it worked okay. I just input his contact information, the date and the amount of the check, and they print it and mail it off on my behalf.
posted by booknerd at 10:26 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by booknerd at 10:26 AM on November 4, 2009
In europe, it is. Every time my American friends talk about checks it's like some kind of time-warp.
posted by jedrek at 10:27 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by jedrek at 10:27 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
I just wrote a check for a handyman I'd never used before. I thought it might be weird to send him away with the promise that I'd pay him online. That's probably my one check this year, though.
posted by sageleaf at 10:29 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by sageleaf at 10:29 AM on November 4, 2009
The olds like them. By "olds" here I mean "people over 70." My father writes more checks in a month than I write in a year.
They're not going to go away until direct-debiting things like rent and telephone and cable bills from bank accounts becomes commonplace in the US, because old people don't pay bills online.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:32 AM on November 4, 2009
They're not going to go away until direct-debiting things like rent and telephone and cable bills from bank accounts becomes commonplace in the US, because old people don't pay bills online.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:32 AM on November 4, 2009
Soon I hope. Wrote a check for a car. Almost forgot how to write out the literal amount.
Was hoping I could just pull out my iphone and initiate a transfer directly from an online banking session. Would've been easier and less embarrassing.
posted by liquoredonlife at 10:34 AM on November 4, 2009
Was hoping I could just pull out my iphone and initiate a transfer directly from an online banking session. Would've been easier and less embarrassing.
posted by liquoredonlife at 10:34 AM on November 4, 2009
As with jedrek, it depends on where you live! Living in Australia, I never wrote a cheque. Didn't even have a cheque book! Now, living in Canada, I find myself having to write them all the time.... it is very much like living in a time warp!
posted by unlaced at 10:36 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by unlaced at 10:36 AM on November 4, 2009
Response by poster: Oh, wow. I feel like such an idiot! I know people who do online bill-pay, but I had NO IDEA this could be used to pay rent. I think my life has just changed for the better. Wow. This feels good.
posted by junipero at 10:37 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by junipero at 10:37 AM on November 4, 2009
When the kids who come around selling raffle tickets for their school fundraisers can give me a place to pay online, I'll stop writing checks. I also write checks for my kids' music teachers (private lessons) because I want the "paper trail" that I can't get with cash; plus, they don't have online payments, either. We pay all our bills online, though, and use the plastic attached to our account to buy groceries and sundries.
posted by cooker girl at 10:38 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by cooker girl at 10:38 AM on November 4, 2009
What do you do if you are giving someone money in a greeting card through the mail?
That's pretty much the only thing I still need personally written out checks for (vs. online billpay).
posted by smackfu at 10:43 AM on November 4, 2009
That's pretty much the only thing I still need personally written out checks for (vs. online billpay).
posted by smackfu at 10:43 AM on November 4, 2009
What do you do if you are giving someone money in a greeting card through the mail?
My (admittedly tech-savvy, especially for his age) 91-year-old Grandfather does e-cards and bank transfers.
posted by brainmouse at 10:48 AM on November 4, 2009
My (admittedly tech-savvy, especially for his age) 91-year-old Grandfather does e-cards and bank transfers.
posted by brainmouse at 10:48 AM on November 4, 2009
Every time my American friends talk about checks it's like some kind of time-warp.
This is true, and it's a good pointer to what's different outside the US. If/when the American banking system consolidates to the extent that you no longer have the two-branch First National Bank of Mayberry or suchlike, then you'll probably see the end of paper checking.
posted by holgate at 10:50 AM on November 4, 2009
This is true, and it's a good pointer to what's different outside the US. If/when the American banking system consolidates to the extent that you no longer have the two-branch First National Bank of Mayberry or suchlike, then you'll probably see the end of paper checking.
posted by holgate at 10:50 AM on November 4, 2009
The olds like them. By "olds" here I mean "people over 70."
I'm 35. I transfer money between accounts online, but pay all of my bills and my mortgage with old-school checks that I write myself.
I'm not a luddite, I happily shop online with a credit card. But I can't be the only person under 70 on Metafilter who is wary of authorizing withdrawals from my checking account online.
Also, it's a small ritual that I don't mind, plus it helps keep me organized and connected to how much money I'm spending on the bills in a way that click-click-clicking online doesn't do.
(I don't give checks to my friends anymore, because they take months to cash or deposit them and it's really freaking annoying.)
posted by desuetude at 10:50 AM on November 4, 2009
I'm 35. I transfer money between accounts online, but pay all of my bills and my mortgage with old-school checks that I write myself.
I'm not a luddite, I happily shop online with a credit card. But I can't be the only person under 70 on Metafilter who is wary of authorizing withdrawals from my checking account online.
Also, it's a small ritual that I don't mind, plus it helps keep me organized and connected to how much money I'm spending on the bills in a way that click-click-clicking online doesn't do.
(I don't give checks to my friends anymore, because they take months to cash or deposit them and it's really freaking annoying.)
posted by desuetude at 10:50 AM on November 4, 2009
I only write, on average, 1 or 2 a month: one to my landlord (he won't handle the transacation any other way) and the others when I visit a vendor who only takes cash or check (for example, one of my doctor's offices only takes cash or check, and my former hair stylist only took checks). I believe that some vendors still elect not to take credit or debit payments for services because they are charged a small percentage of each transaction.
posted by scody at 10:57 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by scody at 10:57 AM on November 4, 2009
I'm around your age, desuetude, and I pay all my bills with checks, too. One mistimed mortgage or car insurance automatic withdrawal and you can easily get slammed with overdraft charges for a dozen or more smaller autopays that now can't be covered.
Count me out. A few minutes of writing paper checks is actually kind of a soothing break from the workday's endless pointing and clicking.
posted by Aquaman at 10:57 AM on November 4, 2009
Count me out. A few minutes of writing paper checks is actually kind of a soothing break from the workday's endless pointing and clicking.
posted by Aquaman at 10:57 AM on November 4, 2009
Well, I'm going to get crucified for admitting this, but checks are useful for time-shifting money.
For example, its 6pm Thursday. We're out of milk and dog food and diapers and I need to get my prescription filled. We live paycheck to paycheck since my car accident, so I know there are only pennies in the bank. My choices are to put those items on the credit card, or write a check (knowing that we'll get a direct deposit at 1am Friday morning, and there is no way the supermarket will be able to withdraw the funds in the next few hours), I choose to write a (what I suppose technically is a "bad") check vs. put the purchase on a credit card.
I think, as long as there are poor/broke people like me out there, checks will continue to exist.
posted by anastasiav at 10:58 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
For example, its 6pm Thursday. We're out of milk and dog food and diapers and I need to get my prescription filled. We live paycheck to paycheck since my car accident, so I know there are only pennies in the bank. My choices are to put those items on the credit card, or write a check (knowing that we'll get a direct deposit at 1am Friday morning, and there is no way the supermarket will be able to withdraw the funds in the next few hours), I choose to write a (what I suppose technically is a "bad") check vs. put the purchase on a credit card.
I think, as long as there are poor/broke people like me out there, checks will continue to exist.
posted by anastasiav at 10:58 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
But I can't be the only person under 70 on Metafilter who is wary of authorizing withdrawals from my checking account online.
Oh, probably not. My husband (who is 47) pays bills with checks, too.
I'm a big fan of having two checking accounts: the bill-paying account and the regular. That way you just transfer your monthly nut into your bill-paying account, and then if anything goes wrong it doesn't tie up more of your funds than necessary.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:00 AM on November 4, 2009
Oh, probably not. My husband (who is 47) pays bills with checks, too.
I'm a big fan of having two checking accounts: the bill-paying account and the regular. That way you just transfer your monthly nut into your bill-paying account, and then if anything goes wrong it doesn't tie up more of your funds than necessary.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:00 AM on November 4, 2009
Not all providers or services are set up for it. My electric company actually charges me a $5 per use fee if I use their online bill pay (I haven't tried setting it up with my bank's bill pay system yet, so I can't comment there, but I could probably do it for free through them). Their office is a half a block from mine, so I drop off my check. It's the only check I still write. My sister's bank, a small town credit union, charges them a service fee to do a bill pay service, so she writes checks, because they are free. My bank only offered it to the higher end accounts (read: higher account balances required) until a few years back, so unless you have looked at the details of your account lately, many people may not know they can do it for free for all accounts now and still think of it as a additional fee service, not worth the time and stamps to use.
So in short: When companies and banks stop treating digital transfers as a cost-added luxury, checks will die.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 11:03 AM on November 4, 2009
So in short: When companies and banks stop treating digital transfers as a cost-added luxury, checks will die.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 11:03 AM on November 4, 2009
I like the ritual of writing checks for bills. I view it as self-care and enjoy it.
That said, I pay a lot online.
posted by jgirl at 11:08 AM on November 4, 2009
That said, I pay a lot online.
posted by jgirl at 11:08 AM on November 4, 2009
One big change towards this being a reality will be when you can pay your IRS tax bill online for free. They now charge a fee to do so.
posted by josher71 at 11:12 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by josher71 at 11:12 AM on November 4, 2009
I use checks at Farmer's Markets all the time. The small venders have no desire to use credit because they get charged a bit for it and their volume is so low they might end up losing money.
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:21 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by Glibpaxman at 11:21 AM on November 4, 2009
I think the end of cheques will come soon. Just signed up with a new bank recently, and they don't let me write them.
Pushing payments is inherently more secure than pulling money out of my account. The delay of writing and cashing a cheque is annoying. Plus no overdraft fees.
Also in Canada cheques are expensive. The major banks own the company that makes them, so one is basically forced to use this company to buy overpriced, ugly cheques.
I'm not gonna miss them.
posted by kamelhoecker at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009
Pushing payments is inherently more secure than pulling money out of my account. The delay of writing and cashing a cheque is annoying. Plus no overdraft fees.
Also in Canada cheques are expensive. The major banks own the company that makes them, so one is basically forced to use this company to buy overpriced, ugly cheques.
I'm not gonna miss them.
posted by kamelhoecker at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009
My mom does check processing/lockbox at a small regional bank in Georgia, and she has plenty of work to do. Lots of people still write checks, especially people without computers - not all of whom are elderly - or people in rural areas who are still on dial-up (my mom sometimes called me and walked me through paying some of her bills on my computer until DSL finally became available to them last year).
I write checks to people/entities who have online payment but whose systems seem untrustworthy or poorly executed (e.g., car loan, HOA) - and to people/entities who don't have online payment (handyman, county water/sewage).
posted by candyland at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009
I write checks to people/entities who have online payment but whose systems seem untrustworthy or poorly executed (e.g., car loan, HOA) - and to people/entities who don't have online payment (handyman, county water/sewage).
posted by candyland at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009
When paying in person for a service at a small independent business (the tailor, the boat repair shop) I generally ask if they'd prefer me to pay by check, and the answer is almost always yes: with checks, they don't have to pay the 2-3% card transaction fees, and I'm more than happy to save them that money. I could avoid checks altogether if I carried cash, but that's too much of a hassle for me.
posted by philokalia at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by philokalia at 11:24 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
You'd have to have the banking industry transfers integrated a great deal more. Many times, when you pay online - as I do my rent, for example - the bank actually sends out a physical paper check. So my landlord has to go to the bank, and deposit the check. You are still dealing with physical paper checks, even though you did it "online". So - much more electronic integration. Also, checks have a big advantage, in that you can hand someone a check, and be done with it - you don't have to know the first thing about them: "made out to: they fill in the info themselves". You just write in the amount, and sign. Electronic payment systems have yet to duplicate that ability - for now, the receiver has to provide you with a lot of info and has to have a whole infrastructure behind him to receive your electronic payment - unlike the check receiver who can cash the check, if need be, with almost nothing. Checks still have their place and in some ways may never be equalled. Not to mention, a cashed check is a physical record unlike the electronic stuff - kind of like paper ballots.
posted by VikingSword at 11:26 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by VikingSword at 11:26 AM on November 4, 2009
I use online bill pay for most everything. However, the company I work for (think landscaping, only not quite) only takes checks. This is because we have to pay fees for credit cards and our volume is such that we would have to raise prices to make up for it.
That said, I still get a few huffy calls a month wherein I explain that we only take checks.
posted by sugarfish at 11:27 AM on November 4, 2009
That said, I still get a few huffy calls a month wherein I explain that we only take checks.
posted by sugarfish at 11:27 AM on November 4, 2009
I'm in Canada, In the past ten years I have written less than five cheques (all for dental services where the money would be deposited by my insurance company in 24 hours). All bills are paid online, all shopping is done with a debit card and I keep some toonies around for buying fundraising cookies at school. If it weren't for Timbits I'd never handle money personally. A lot of businesses I go to won't accept cheques anymore (according to the signs at the registers). I haven't seen anyone write a cheque in a shop for ten years at least. I know someone that used cheque-kiting to float money before payday but most cheques get honoured by the bank within 24 hours now so she has had to stop.
posted by saucysault at 11:35 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by saucysault at 11:35 AM on November 4, 2009
I pay my rent with a check because that's the only way my landlord will take it. We have a special box we're supposed to put our rent checks in, and the manager comes by to pick them up. There are also those very occasional purchases of homemade goods from sellers who only want cash or check, and there've been times when I sent money to a friend, and a physical check was the quickest and easiest way to do that. So, it could be a while before checks are completely obsolete, but they are definitely dwindling in necessity.
posted by katillathehun at 11:36 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by katillathehun at 11:36 AM on November 4, 2009
anastasiav, be careful of using checks to time-shift money. Retailers can scan the numbers from your check and instantly debit your account electronically.
posted by zsazsa at 11:37 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by zsazsa at 11:37 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm in Canada, and I haven't had cheques for about 1.5 years now. The only time it's inconvenient is when paying a small business to do work on my house, in which case I have to get a cashier's cheque and be careful to check out their payment options in advance.
posted by Kurichina at 11:43 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by Kurichina at 11:43 AM on November 4, 2009
Not soon enough. I think that once places stop charging fees for paying online, the personal check will go the way of the dodo.
Personal checks are a huge financial security risk as well.
An old apartment complex that I lived in allowed tenants to pay online, but there was a ridiculous "convenience fee" that made it an unattractive option.
I pay my electric bill by check because they charge a $5 fee for paying it online, and tell us "Oh, that's not us, it's the payment processor." (Well, change processors then!)
My credit cards get paid online, so does auto insurance, auto registration, and utilities.
So.. when? I think within the next 10 years. Seniors are the ones that cling onto checks. Once that generation is gone, checks will soon follow.
posted by drstein at 11:46 AM on November 4, 2009
Personal checks are a huge financial security risk as well.
An old apartment complex that I lived in allowed tenants to pay online, but there was a ridiculous "convenience fee" that made it an unattractive option.
I pay my electric bill by check because they charge a $5 fee for paying it online, and tell us "Oh, that's not us, it's the payment processor." (Well, change processors then!)
My credit cards get paid online, so does auto insurance, auto registration, and utilities.
So.. when? I think within the next 10 years. Seniors are the ones that cling onto checks. Once that generation is gone, checks will soon follow.
posted by drstein at 11:46 AM on November 4, 2009
If you have to mail payment to your landlord with a stub from the monthly bill, it's impossible to do so without using a check or money order that has been in your possession at some point.
posted by oaf at 12:08 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by oaf at 12:08 PM on November 4, 2009
What do you do if you are giving someone money in a greeting card through the mail?
I send cash to my 5 nieces and nephews each year, and nary a card has been lost or opened. The risk is worth it to me, so that they have cash money on their birthdays and don't have to go through the hassle of cashing a check. (Plus, it's small amounts--I've never mailed more than $30 at a time).
posted by donajo at 12:12 PM on November 4, 2009
I send cash to my 5 nieces and nephews each year, and nary a card has been lost or opened. The risk is worth it to me, so that they have cash money on their birthdays and don't have to go through the hassle of cashing a check. (Plus, it's small amounts--I've never mailed more than $30 at a time).
posted by donajo at 12:12 PM on November 4, 2009
At my business we take more checks than ever. We give discounts for checks. I just in October lost $1100 due to credit and debit card fees, so we strongly discoureage their use and give our customers a discount for checks and cash. Since we started doing that we take about 10 to 12 checks per day. As long as fucking banks keep pushing people to use cards so they can take a piece of it from you and me, there will be businesses with regular clientele pushing back against that by requesting check usage.
posted by vito90 at 12:13 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by vito90 at 12:13 PM on November 4, 2009
I'm in Canada, and I stopped ordering cheques for myself five years ago when I bought my house (I didn't have to write rent cheques anymore; my mortgage is withdrawn automatically from my bank account).
There is precisely one service person I do business with for whom it is either cash or cheque, and I choose to pay cash (I actually bring the money to his house, since he lives about 5 blocks away from me). Everything else I pay online, or by debit or credit card, or cash, although I rarely carry cash with me, because debit is so prevalent here.
However, my parents (in their sixties) still write cheques to pay their utilities bills. Elderly people in front of me at the grocery store will sometimes write a cheque for groceries, which I find REALLY weird. That's when I truly feel like I've travelled back in time.
So when will cheques become obsolete? Well, they practically are already where I live. Some people still use them out of familiarity and maybe suspicion about the safety of online transactions, but I think if the service ceased to exist tomorrow, 99.9% of people and companies would still be able to pay bills/function/receive payment with little disruption. There are enough alternative methods of payment that are easily accessible and not too much more expensive.
>As long as fucking banks keep pushing people to use cards so they can take a piece of it from you and me, there will be businesses with regular clientele pushing back against that by requesting check usage.
One of the reasons I was glad to give up cheques is because my bank charges a not insignificant amount to order them and to process them. It's true, though, that small businesses can pay through the nose for debit/credit card systems--my parents faced that with their business.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:21 PM on November 4, 2009
There is precisely one service person I do business with for whom it is either cash or cheque, and I choose to pay cash (I actually bring the money to his house, since he lives about 5 blocks away from me). Everything else I pay online, or by debit or credit card, or cash, although I rarely carry cash with me, because debit is so prevalent here.
However, my parents (in their sixties) still write cheques to pay their utilities bills. Elderly people in front of me at the grocery store will sometimes write a cheque for groceries, which I find REALLY weird. That's when I truly feel like I've travelled back in time.
So when will cheques become obsolete? Well, they practically are already where I live. Some people still use them out of familiarity and maybe suspicion about the safety of online transactions, but I think if the service ceased to exist tomorrow, 99.9% of people and companies would still be able to pay bills/function/receive payment with little disruption. There are enough alternative methods of payment that are easily accessible and not too much more expensive.
>As long as fucking banks keep pushing people to use cards so they can take a piece of it from you and me, there will be businesses with regular clientele pushing back against that by requesting check usage.
One of the reasons I was glad to give up cheques is because my bank charges a not insignificant amount to order them and to process them. It's true, though, that small businesses can pay through the nose for debit/credit card systems--my parents faced that with their business.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:21 PM on November 4, 2009
One big change towards this being a reality will be when you can pay your IRS tax bill online for free. They now charge a fee to do so.
You can pay the IRS for free through https://www.eftps.gov/eftps/. It's a government service. I use it for all my estimated tax payments and for any amount due April 15.
posted by Robert Angelo at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
You can pay the IRS for free through https://www.eftps.gov/eftps/. It's a government service. I use it for all my estimated tax payments and for any amount due April 15.
posted by Robert Angelo at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
If you have to mail payment to your landlord with a stub from the monthly bill
I totally ignore those requests to include the voucher or stub with various bills and, while it might be a bit more work for them, they've always managed to cash the check and properly apply it to my account. Always make sure your account number is in the memo field, if you have one.
posted by smackfu at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
I totally ignore those requests to include the voucher or stub with various bills and, while it might be a bit more work for them, they've always managed to cash the check and properly apply it to my account. Always make sure your account number is in the memo field, if you have one.
posted by smackfu at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
In Amsterdam I was stunned to feel antiquated because I was using money, let alone checks. Every time the locals paid for something they just wipped out their cell phones and transferred the money to the vendor via some app from their bank. Made it easy to tell who was a visitor and who wasn't.
posted by jwells at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by jwells at 12:32 PM on November 4, 2009
I just checked my chequebook (sorry): I haven't written a cheque in three years. The last was to ... myself, when the ATM ate my card. The cheque system is now so atrophied in Britain that most major supermarkets and stores have started refusing them.
I think that's what's going to finish them in the US, as well: when their use dwindles to the level that it's just fraudsters and hold-outs using them (as it was here), the shops and banks will just make using them either impossible or very difficult, and then they'll die.
But for that to happen takes a really good infrastructure: I can send money online to any account and it'll be there in two hours. Friends just send each other their a/c numbers and sort codes to transfer money. I can pay with debit plastic absolutely everywhere else except a lot of buses, and even they are getting switched to Oyster fast-pay plastic. For automated things there's Direct Debit, and it has really strong consumer protections so that if something comes out and you're not happy about it, you can phone the bank and have the money back in minutes, no questions asked. I've had to do this maybe twice, and it's refreshing how un-bank-like the experience was.
When you've got all that, the check will die. But from what I see from travelling and from people's anecdotes here, I think that's a fair way off.
posted by bonaldi at 12:54 PM on November 4, 2009
I think that's what's going to finish them in the US, as well: when their use dwindles to the level that it's just fraudsters and hold-outs using them (as it was here), the shops and banks will just make using them either impossible or very difficult, and then they'll die.
But for that to happen takes a really good infrastructure: I can send money online to any account and it'll be there in two hours. Friends just send each other their a/c numbers and sort codes to transfer money. I can pay with debit plastic absolutely everywhere else except a lot of buses, and even they are getting switched to Oyster fast-pay plastic. For automated things there's Direct Debit, and it has really strong consumer protections so that if something comes out and you're not happy about it, you can phone the bank and have the money back in minutes, no questions asked. I've had to do this maybe twice, and it's refreshing how un-bank-like the experience was.
When you've got all that, the check will die. But from what I see from travelling and from people's anecdotes here, I think that's a fair way off.
posted by bonaldi at 12:54 PM on November 4, 2009
At my business we take more checks than ever. We give discounts for checks. I just in October lost $1100 due to credit and debit card fees, so we strongly discoureage their use and give our customers a discount for checks and cash. Since we started doing that we take about 10 to 12 checks per day. As long as fucking banks keep pushing people to use cards so they can take a piece of it from you and me, there will be businesses with regular clientele pushing back against that by requesting check usage.
You know this is against the terms of use of the Credit Cards, right? As in, you are not allowed to be doing this if you also accept credit cards?
posted by brainmouse at 12:59 PM on November 4, 2009
You know this is against the terms of use of the Credit Cards, right? As in, you are not allowed to be doing this if you also accept credit cards?
posted by brainmouse at 12:59 PM on November 4, 2009
You know this is against the terms of use of the Credit Cards, right? As in, you are not allowed to be doing this if you also accept credit cards?
Incorrect. Cash/check discounts are fine. Surcharges or minimums for credit cards are not.
posted by oaf at 1:06 PM on November 4, 2009
Incorrect. Cash/check discounts are fine. Surcharges or minimums for credit cards are not.
posted by oaf at 1:06 PM on November 4, 2009
I'm the treasurer of both my church and community association. Both organizations are heavily check-dependent: my church for weekly or monthly pledging (notwithstanding the fact that electronic giving is offered) and my community association for dues and payments for events (with electronic giving hopefully in the pipeline within the year). I anticipate both organizations moving to a primarily electronic giving model in the next few years, but there are many people out there - not all of them elderly - who seem to strongly prefer to pay by check, at least for these two organizations.
Now that I think about it, my daughter's Girl Scout cookie orders were also paid substantially by check, and I must write checks to my children's school cafeterias to give them money with which they can buy their lunches. Check-writing is diminishing but certainly isn't extinct, at least in my neck of the woods (in the eastern U.S.)
posted by cheapskatebay at 1:24 PM on November 4, 2009
Now that I think about it, my daughter's Girl Scout cookie orders were also paid substantially by check, and I must write checks to my children's school cafeterias to give them money with which they can buy their lunches. Check-writing is diminishing but certainly isn't extinct, at least in my neck of the woods (in the eastern U.S.)
posted by cheapskatebay at 1:24 PM on November 4, 2009
I was paying my utility bills online but after a couple charged me double for some reason which took months to resolve and another's service got hacked I started paying most of the my paper check again. The bills I pay by check I pay attentions to and the ones I pay online automatically often get overlooked. If I lived paycheck to paycheck this could have been a big problem. I haven't written a check at a store in about 10 years but do write a check to my dentist who gives me 5% off for a check vs. credit card.
posted by Bunglegirl at 1:29 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by Bunglegirl at 1:29 PM on November 4, 2009
I write maybe one check per month. My local volunteer fire company doesn't take PayPal or credit cards online. Real estate taxes. Like that. And like Bunglegirl, I'll write a check to get a discount.
posted by fixedgear at 1:41 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by fixedgear at 1:41 PM on November 4, 2009
Heads up: If you are planning to start using your bank's online check service to pay your rent, pay attention to the lead time required.
For my bank, if the recipient is in their electronic system, the lead time is 1-2 days. But if they are going to cut a check and physically mail it, the lead time is 7-10 days. So make sure you don't think you can log onto your bank's website the day your rent is due and make it work - you need to plan ahead.
posted by CathyG at 1:44 PM on November 4, 2009
For my bank, if the recipient is in their electronic system, the lead time is 1-2 days. But if they are going to cut a check and physically mail it, the lead time is 7-10 days. So make sure you don't think you can log onto your bank's website the day your rent is due and make it work - you need to plan ahead.
posted by CathyG at 1:44 PM on November 4, 2009
I can't remember the last time I had a cheque book. Oh wait, I think it was in 1992. I even pay my kids their allowance via direct deposit. On the rare occasions when a client sends me a cheque to pay a bill, it's a nuisance, because I have to go to the bank to deposit it. I find an online transaction to be more secure because my record of it is clear. If I write a cheque wrong, or someone changes it, I don't have the same level of security (IMO). I've even starting working at making my bills come electronically. (At the rate I'm going, I won't even need to step outside to the mailbox).
Oh, I'm in Australia.
posted by b33j at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2009
Oh, I'm in Australia.
posted by b33j at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2009
In my country the key benefits of cheques are:
1. In many cases, no transaction fees, even for small businesses (while e.g. credit card payment has a fee of a few %). So they're popular with landlords.
2. Accepted by most bank accounts with no setup. For example when my parents pay their subscription for the local bowls club. Is their account set up for online payments? Would the club treasurer know how to work it? I don't know.
3. Some people have less-common bank accounts/cards that make online payment a hassle. So some businesses consider it in their interests to accept cheques.
4. Paying money into bank accounts that don't yet exist - I mailed out a cheque to open a stocks+shares ISA the other year, as I couldn't make an electronic transfer into an account that didn't yet exist, and I couldn't open an account without paying into it.
5. Making anonymous charity donations; most online payment systems 'helpfully' make sure the recipient receives all your details; with other online payments, there's always the worry miskeying the number the money will leave your account but won't arrive at the right recipient, and they won't know because they won't be looking for it.
Of course, a key disadvantage of cheques (at least where I am) is that people can write bad cheques, and they're only guaranteed up to maybe $50. So if I was selling something costing more than $50 I wouldn't want a cheque as if it's bad I wouldn't get paid; and if I was selling something costing less than $50, the both I and the seller would probably rather have cash.
One mistimed mortgage or car insurance automatic withdrawal and you can easily get slammed with overdraft charges for a dozen or more smaller autopays that now can't be covered.
In my country you can choose the day your direct debits get taken out on; many people set them to the day after they get paid.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:03 PM on November 4, 2009
1. In many cases, no transaction fees, even for small businesses (while e.g. credit card payment has a fee of a few %). So they're popular with landlords.
2. Accepted by most bank accounts with no setup. For example when my parents pay their subscription for the local bowls club. Is their account set up for online payments? Would the club treasurer know how to work it? I don't know.
3. Some people have less-common bank accounts/cards that make online payment a hassle. So some businesses consider it in their interests to accept cheques.
4. Paying money into bank accounts that don't yet exist - I mailed out a cheque to open a stocks+shares ISA the other year, as I couldn't make an electronic transfer into an account that didn't yet exist, and I couldn't open an account without paying into it.
5. Making anonymous charity donations; most online payment systems 'helpfully' make sure the recipient receives all your details; with other online payments, there's always the worry miskeying the number the money will leave your account but won't arrive at the right recipient, and they won't know because they won't be looking for it.
Of course, a key disadvantage of cheques (at least where I am) is that people can write bad cheques, and they're only guaranteed up to maybe $50. So if I was selling something costing more than $50 I wouldn't want a cheque as if it's bad I wouldn't get paid; and if I was selling something costing less than $50, the both I and the seller would probably rather have cash.
One mistimed mortgage or car insurance automatic withdrawal and you can easily get slammed with overdraft charges for a dozen or more smaller autopays that now can't be covered.
In my country you can choose the day your direct debits get taken out on; many people set them to the day after they get paid.
posted by Mike1024 at 2:03 PM on November 4, 2009
One mistimed mortgage or car insurance automatic withdrawal and you can easily get slammed with overdraft charges for a dozen or more smaller autopays that now can't be covered.
Well, that's one of the nice things about a system where money transfers are all electronic: you can easily send money directly to someone's account without setting up automatic billing. To pay my rent in Munich, I simply set money to the landlord's account via my bank's website. I didn't make my rent payment automatic (instead transferring the money on my own after my paycheck arrived), because it's a big expense, and I wanted to make sure I had enough money in my account when I sent it. I always knew exactly when the money left my account, and I was always sure when it arrived in the landlord's account. Smaller monthly fees - health insurance, for example - I did set for automatic payment, and those were even more painless. Oh, and this was at a fairly small bank, not the Postbank or CitiBank or some other huge bank.
Compare that to my current situation: my landlord in Chicago accepts only checks, and cashes them at random points later in the month. I've got to physically get the check to them, and I have no idea when the money will actually leave my account (and it's a pain to get them to confirm that my check arrived, etc.) It's a lot less convenient, and it's a lot harder to control when the money actually leaves my account - which I think is worse for someone living paycheck to paycheck.
I'd take the German system any day. I can't wait until I can throw away my checkbook.
posted by ubersturm at 2:18 PM on November 4, 2009
Well, that's one of the nice things about a system where money transfers are all electronic: you can easily send money directly to someone's account without setting up automatic billing. To pay my rent in Munich, I simply set money to the landlord's account via my bank's website. I didn't make my rent payment automatic (instead transferring the money on my own after my paycheck arrived), because it's a big expense, and I wanted to make sure I had enough money in my account when I sent it. I always knew exactly when the money left my account, and I was always sure when it arrived in the landlord's account. Smaller monthly fees - health insurance, for example - I did set for automatic payment, and those were even more painless. Oh, and this was at a fairly small bank, not the Postbank or CitiBank or some other huge bank.
Compare that to my current situation: my landlord in Chicago accepts only checks, and cashes them at random points later in the month. I've got to physically get the check to them, and I have no idea when the money will actually leave my account (and it's a pain to get them to confirm that my check arrived, etc.) It's a lot less convenient, and it's a lot harder to control when the money actually leaves my account - which I think is worse for someone living paycheck to paycheck.
I'd take the German system any day. I can't wait until I can throw away my checkbook.
posted by ubersturm at 2:18 PM on November 4, 2009
I'm in the UK and the only time I ever use cheques are to pay the occasional plumber/builder, maybe once a year. So maybe when there's a way to do those kind of transactions easily. I'm intrigued at the Amsterdam example of whipping out the phone and transferring the money like that. Would be easy enough to do in the situation of builders etc. so I'd say it won't be too long in coming.
I have to admit I still don't really understand what you do when you "balance the checkbook". It sounds very strange and old-fashioned to this British girl - I picture a sort of old-timey ledger and lots of calculations with a pencil...
posted by cryptozoology at 2:39 PM on November 4, 2009
I have to admit I still don't really understand what you do when you "balance the checkbook". It sounds very strange and old-fashioned to this British girl - I picture a sort of old-timey ledger and lots of calculations with a pencil...
posted by cryptozoology at 2:39 PM on November 4, 2009
Oh, and when the plumber came, I paid by credit card through his portable-satellite linked eftpos device, and then transferred the cash online immediately from my regular account to my credit card account so that I didn't have any fees to pay.
posted by b33j at 4:52 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by b33j at 4:52 PM on November 4, 2009
They only thing I write a check for is my cleaning lady. I wish she would take online bill pay. The worst part is she sits on the checks, and then all of sudden cashes 5 of them. Rage.
posted by corpse at 6:28 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by corpse at 6:28 PM on November 4, 2009
Why you should stop using checks.
Not quite true unless and until the requirement that banks know their customers is dropped.
posted by oaf at 7:09 PM on November 4, 2009
Not quite true unless and until the requirement that banks know their customers is dropped.
posted by oaf at 7:09 PM on November 4, 2009
OK here's another one: band payouts. I never get cash for the gig fee, it's always a check and often comes after the fact.
I'm not going to walk around to one more shows all days with hundreds and hundreds of dollars (or more!) of cash in my pocket, and your average musicians aren't going to be down with "kthx see ya, I'll e-mail you the loot later."
I'm sure there are other similar situations?
posted by Aquaman at 7:42 PM on November 4, 2009
I'm not going to walk around to one more shows all days with hundreds and hundreds of dollars (or more!) of cash in my pocket, and your average musicians aren't going to be down with "kthx see ya, I'll e-mail you the loot later."
I'm sure there are other similar situations?
posted by Aquaman at 7:42 PM on November 4, 2009
my church for weekly or monthly pledging
Ah, yes, that's a very American thing, and from what I can tell, the cash vs. check preference varies from denomination to denomination. (In the US, checks let you keep a record of charitable gifts for your tax return; the UK, Gift Aid means that the recipient gets the tax benefit, and there's an incentive to get electronic donations.)
I'm intrigued at the Amsterdam example of whipping out the phone and transferring the money like that.
The other think that the Dutch have is Chipknip, a stored-value e-cash system which allows you to load a certain amount of money onto your debit/ATM card for small purchases, the kind that many places in the US won't run as card transactions.
For what it's worth, while moving to the US felt like going back a decade in terms of banking, the only people to whom I'm be writing a regular check are the bin-men.
posted by holgate at 8:23 PM on November 4, 2009
Ah, yes, that's a very American thing, and from what I can tell, the cash vs. check preference varies from denomination to denomination. (In the US, checks let you keep a record of charitable gifts for your tax return; the UK, Gift Aid means that the recipient gets the tax benefit, and there's an incentive to get electronic donations.)
I'm intrigued at the Amsterdam example of whipping out the phone and transferring the money like that.
The other think that the Dutch have is Chipknip, a stored-value e-cash system which allows you to load a certain amount of money onto your debit/ATM card for small purchases, the kind that many places in the US won't run as card transactions.
For what it's worth, while moving to the US felt like going back a decade in terms of banking, the only people to whom I'm be writing a regular check are the bin-men.
posted by holgate at 8:23 PM on November 4, 2009
Response by poster: Just a side note -- nothing to do with my original question -- but Aquaman, I actually used to book bands for festivals and had to carry around THOUSANDS of dollars with me in a fanny pack (yeah, super cool) and knock on bus doors to make payments. Super sketchy...but fun none-the-less. I'd rather have written some checks!
But yes, you are absolutely correct -- bands who get paid by the gig are certainly not going to trust the client to pay them by email at their convenience.
posted by junipero at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2009
But yes, you are absolutely correct -- bands who get paid by the gig are certainly not going to trust the client to pay them by email at their convenience.
posted by junipero at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2009
Well, that's one of the nice things about a system where money transfers are all electronic: you can easily send money directly to someone's account without setting up automatic billing.
Do banks in other countries play the same game that American banks do with the timing of giw withdrawals, deposits, and transfers are applied? Timing is key even if the billpay isn't automatic. The money doesn't come in and out of the account electronically in a consistent way, and if you're close to an overdraft, banks will automagically accidentally take advantage of it.
posted by desuetude at 10:02 PM on November 4, 2009
Do banks in other countries play the same game that American banks do with the timing of giw withdrawals, deposits, and transfers are applied? Timing is key even if the billpay isn't automatic. The money doesn't come in and out of the account electronically in a consistent way, and if you're close to an overdraft, banks will automagically accidentally take advantage of it.
posted by desuetude at 10:02 PM on November 4, 2009
Though paper checks likely _could_ have been abolished years ago with the increasing computerization of the banking system (I first heard the "paper checks are _already_ obsolete" song and dance in the early 1980s before check processing was significantly sped up and streamlined and you could still kite them for significant amounts of time), widespread public demand seems to have mitigated against it and is likely to continue to do so for at least a few years down the road. I engage in online shopping and pay some bills electronically or with credit cards, I could potentially do so with almost all of them, or (if I wanted to make my life less convenient) I could cash checks I recieved at a check-cashing place, write money orders for some things, and pay utility bills, etc. in cash with personal visits to check-cashing places or the relevant utilities' offices (a not-uncommon practice in NYC and probably a lot of urban low income areas). However, an industry in fancy checkbooks, checks printed with business logos, cartoon characters, etc. exists because people _want_ them.
posted by bunky at 10:21 PM on November 4, 2009
posted by bunky at 10:21 PM on November 4, 2009
Executive summary:
Checks seem to still be in high use.
Cheques are a relic on the way out.
I think this reflects more on the gouging tactics of Americans banks than anything else. I'm in Australia, and pretty much everything that the American commenters on this thread use cheques for I can use an electronic transfer for. Most utility services don't charge any extra to use an electronic payment service; my phone bill for example has a stub detailing how to pay online using a credit card, debit card or BPay service, of which only the credit card attracts a small fee (for my provider it's 2% of the bill total, I think), along with the option to use a cheque or money order, or you can pay at any Post Office. Every charity I have donated to, including things like primary school lolly drives, are set up to provide a receipt for cash donations, and larger services allow a direct debit from the account of your choice on the date of your choice. My bank allows or disallows direct debits on my request, and I can arrange to have them timed to say, the day after my pay clears, again at no extra costs.
The things that American banks charge for seem kinda ridiculous. Why would they want to encourage behaviour that leads to higher overheads? Surely allowing a computer to do all the hard work is easier than having a staff of cheque checkers? What do they have to gain from randomly processing electronic transfers?
posted by Jilder at 11:41 PM on November 4, 2009
Checks seem to still be in high use.
Cheques are a relic on the way out.
I think this reflects more on the gouging tactics of Americans banks than anything else. I'm in Australia, and pretty much everything that the American commenters on this thread use cheques for I can use an electronic transfer for. Most utility services don't charge any extra to use an electronic payment service; my phone bill for example has a stub detailing how to pay online using a credit card, debit card or BPay service, of which only the credit card attracts a small fee (for my provider it's 2% of the bill total, I think), along with the option to use a cheque or money order, or you can pay at any Post Office. Every charity I have donated to, including things like primary school lolly drives, are set up to provide a receipt for cash donations, and larger services allow a direct debit from the account of your choice on the date of your choice. My bank allows or disallows direct debits on my request, and I can arrange to have them timed to say, the day after my pay clears, again at no extra costs.
The things that American banks charge for seem kinda ridiculous. Why would they want to encourage behaviour that leads to higher overheads? Surely allowing a computer to do all the hard work is easier than having a staff of cheque checkers? What do they have to gain from randomly processing electronic transfers?
posted by Jilder at 11:41 PM on November 4, 2009
In the UK, many utility companies actually offer small discounts for paying automatically by Direct Debit, instead of waiting for a bill to arrive (paper bills = often an extra fee as well) and then paying over the phone/by cheque/at a post office.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:43 AM on November 5, 2009
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:43 AM on November 5, 2009
Well, I'm going to get crucified for admitting this, but checks are useful for time-shifting money.
I'm only snickering a little, not crucifying, but that's check kiting, and it's almost certainly illegal if you're in the USA. And I'm snickering because I'm sure millions of people have done that, too.
As for obsolescence itself... well, I haven't written a check for about ten years (USA), but I do know many people who still pay rent that way. I don't have a rent payment to make, I use cash or credit cards for shopping, and I pay utility and other bills online, either automatically or when I receive a paper statement/bill. I can't quite get everyone to stop sending me paper bills (hello, Comcast?), but that'll come sooner or later, I imagine. I'll like that: I hate when paper mail piles up while I travel.
In great swaths of the rest of the world, nobody writes checks anymore.
posted by rokusan at 4:57 AM on November 5, 2009
I'm only snickering a little, not crucifying, but that's check kiting, and it's almost certainly illegal if you're in the USA. And I'm snickering because I'm sure millions of people have done that, too.
As for obsolescence itself... well, I haven't written a check for about ten years (USA), but I do know many people who still pay rent that way. I don't have a rent payment to make, I use cash or credit cards for shopping, and I pay utility and other bills online, either automatically or when I receive a paper statement/bill. I can't quite get everyone to stop sending me paper bills (hello, Comcast?), but that'll come sooner or later, I imagine. I'll like that: I hate when paper mail piles up while I travel.
In great swaths of the rest of the world, nobody writes checks anymore.
posted by rokusan at 4:57 AM on November 5, 2009
They only thing I write a check for is my cleaning lady. I wish she would take online bill pay. The worst part is she sits on the checks, and then all of sudden cashes 5 of them. Rage.
Does she give you a receipt? Pay her in cash.
posted by rokusan at 4:58 AM on November 5, 2009
Does she give you a receipt? Pay her in cash.
posted by rokusan at 4:58 AM on November 5, 2009
In some countries (such as Japan) checks never really caught on in the first place. In the case of Japan, I think it's because...well, would you want to try to write a check in Japanese?
A possible related reason for the decreasing popularity of checks with a lot of people in the Western world surely has to do with the die-off of cursive writing.
posted by bunky at 10:25 PM on November 6, 2009
A possible related reason for the decreasing popularity of checks with a lot of people in the Western world surely has to do with the die-off of cursive writing.
posted by bunky at 10:25 PM on November 6, 2009
In the case of Japan, I think it's because...well, would you want to try to write a check in Japanese?
A possible related reason for the decreasing popularity of checks with a lot of people in the Western world surely has to do with the die-off of cursive writing.
Are you suggesting that checks are dying off not because of the convenience of the internet, but that it's too difficult to write a name, dollar amount, and date in one's own language?
posted by desuetude at 7:24 PM on November 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
A possible related reason for the decreasing popularity of checks with a lot of people in the Western world surely has to do with the die-off of cursive writing.
Are you suggesting that checks are dying off not because of the convenience of the internet, but that it's too difficult to write a name, dollar amount, and date in one's own language?
posted by desuetude at 7:24 PM on November 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by brainmouse at 10:22 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]