How do I deal with a lazy employee?
October 13, 2009 11:02 AM Subscribe
I am a team leader in an IT company. One of the guys in my team is giving me a headache because he turned lazy all of a sudden.
He is a very good developer, though very geeky and a bit antisocial, you know the type. He's been on the team for 3 months now and he is one of the key developers in the project we're currently working on. For 4 or 5 weeks now he has been working maybe half as much as before, probably even less. He comes to work very late and leaves early. He surfs the web most of the time. In our company the atmosphere is very relaxed, nobody cares if you don't come in from 9 to 5 or if you play browser games or whatever. What counts is the work that you do. And this guy stopped doing more or less anything. I've had a serious talk with him about the issue and he apologized and said he didn't see it that way, but he would try to improve. Nothing has changed since, if anything, it got worse. I keep reminding him and he seems to be alarmed when I do but other than that doesn't seem to care much. When asked if there is anything about his work that he doesn't enjoy, something that could be improved, he doesn't give me anything.
Now it would be easiest to fire him and it probably won't be long before I do just that, but I was wondering if I could motivate him somehow or try something else to get through to him. As I said, he's one of the most valuable developers and though I don't like him too much personally, I would hate to lose him for the sake of the project.
He is a very good developer, though very geeky and a bit antisocial, you know the type. He's been on the team for 3 months now and he is one of the key developers in the project we're currently working on. For 4 or 5 weeks now he has been working maybe half as much as before, probably even less. He comes to work very late and leaves early. He surfs the web most of the time. In our company the atmosphere is very relaxed, nobody cares if you don't come in from 9 to 5 or if you play browser games or whatever. What counts is the work that you do. And this guy stopped doing more or less anything. I've had a serious talk with him about the issue and he apologized and said he didn't see it that way, but he would try to improve. Nothing has changed since, if anything, it got worse. I keep reminding him and he seems to be alarmed when I do but other than that doesn't seem to care much. When asked if there is anything about his work that he doesn't enjoy, something that could be improved, he doesn't give me anything.
Now it would be easiest to fire him and it probably won't be long before I do just that, but I was wondering if I could motivate him somehow or try something else to get through to him. As I said, he's one of the most valuable developers and though I don't like him too much personally, I would hate to lose him for the sake of the project.
I would go beyond talking to him and set about actively managing him. Put him on probation, but tell him you're 100% prepared help him get through it. Lay out daily tasks and deadlines, and have a daily review at 3 PM to go over progress. He really may be lost on what he's supposed to be doing and what the priorities are on the finite, day to day, time management level. This is not uncommon with that particular breed of fish.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:13 AM on October 13, 2009 [10 favorites]
posted by DarlingBri at 11:13 AM on October 13, 2009 [10 favorites]
What happened a month ago? Milestone? Probationary review?
Two months in seems like a quick change, and you sound like you would have noticed if he had changed jobs frequently prior to this one. Maybe he broke up with a significant other, or his dog died or whatever personal events can lead to professional disinterest. He definitely sounds like a short-timer, though, could it be the job has not turned out the way it was initially portrayed?
You say you don't like him, is it possible that he can tell?
posted by rhizome at 11:16 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Two months in seems like a quick change, and you sound like you would have noticed if he had changed jobs frequently prior to this one. Maybe he broke up with a significant other, or his dog died or whatever personal events can lead to professional disinterest. He definitely sounds like a short-timer, though, could it be the job has not turned out the way it was initially portrayed?
You say you don't like him, is it possible that he can tell?
posted by rhizome at 11:16 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your atmosphere may be "very relaxed", but are you balancing that by giving clear goals with concrete milestones (with dates attached)?
Short-term, you need to treat this guy as being disciplined. To that effect:
- Document everything. If you need to terminate him (as you say may happen), you'll want this information.
- Make sure your boss (and HR, if you've got it) are aware of your issues with this employee. Again, put it in writing.
- Make him do a daily written status report.
posted by mkultra at 11:17 AM on October 13, 2009
Short-term, you need to treat this guy as being disciplined. To that effect:
- Document everything. If you need to terminate him (as you say may happen), you'll want this information.
- Make sure your boss (and HR, if you've got it) are aware of your issues with this employee. Again, put it in writing.
- Make him do a daily written status report.
posted by mkultra at 11:17 AM on October 13, 2009
If you discipline him, he'll probably quit. Maybe he's found another job anyway.
Do you have deadlines or something? You say you don't mind if he plays games or whatever so long as his work is done, but has he missed deadlines or something?
posted by anniecat at 11:19 AM on October 13, 2009
Do you have deadlines or something? You say you don't mind if he plays games or whatever so long as his work is done, but has he missed deadlines or something?
posted by anniecat at 11:19 AM on October 13, 2009
Also, is it clear what the deliverables (so to speak) are, or is he perceiving this as the slow time of the year?
posted by anniecat at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by anniecat at 11:22 AM on October 13, 2009
Do you have daily stand-ups? That would seem like a way of getting him to speak up on what he's done each day without singling him out.
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
(Though it does sound a lot like he has "checked out" and will not be coming back.)
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by Artw at 11:44 AM on October 13, 2009
Here's what I did in a similar situation. I should say this went heavily against my style of management but in a way it worked (the guy actually quit before the end of this process)
1. Consult your superior and HR for some guidance. Tell them your plan.
2. Begin to document any issues you have with the employee
3. Put him on a 30 day plan for improvement. Have a meeting with him and discuss openly the issues you are having. Then create a plan where in 30 days you will reassess. Try to create a plan with very concrete milestones. Goals like "work with a better attitude" don't work well. Things like fixed all bugs and developed all features assigned works better. Have the employee participate in setting these goals - he should pick a few himself.
4. Continue to document progress
5. Reassess in 30 days. You should have ongoing weekly meetings to discuss the goals and what he is trying to achieve and how well he is doing. Feel free to adjust goals throughout this period.
After 30 days you have 3 options
1. Fire him.
2. Do another 30 days
3. Let him go on his own again.
BTW much of this assumes you are in an "At Will" work state which allows you to fire people pretty much with any halfway decent excuse. If you're not in such a state consult your HR more on the possible outcomes.
posted by bitdamaged at 11:51 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
1. Consult your superior and HR for some guidance. Tell them your plan.
2. Begin to document any issues you have with the employee
3. Put him on a 30 day plan for improvement. Have a meeting with him and discuss openly the issues you are having. Then create a plan where in 30 days you will reassess. Try to create a plan with very concrete milestones. Goals like "work with a better attitude" don't work well. Things like fixed all bugs and developed all features assigned works better. Have the employee participate in setting these goals - he should pick a few himself.
4. Continue to document progress
5. Reassess in 30 days. You should have ongoing weekly meetings to discuss the goals and what he is trying to achieve and how well he is doing. Feel free to adjust goals throughout this period.
After 30 days you have 3 options
1. Fire him.
2. Do another 30 days
3. Let him go on his own again.
BTW much of this assumes you are in an "At Will" work state which allows you to fire people pretty much with any halfway decent excuse. If you're not in such a state consult your HR more on the possible outcomes.
posted by bitdamaged at 11:51 AM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Do team members send out weekly status reports? In one place I worked, we posted our weekly statuses to the wiki where we all could read them. That might apply some peer pressure and team spirit for him to hold up his end when he can see how much he teammates are doing and they can see how little he is.
posted by octothorpe at 11:58 AM on October 13, 2009
posted by octothorpe at 11:58 AM on October 13, 2009
bitdamaged's exact method worked for me once in the past. The problem was largely corrected in the single cycle.
It can be a decent, respectful, yet firm wake-up call to say, "Shape up or ship out." Sometimes that is the correct reply.
Additionally, if he's only showing up to collect a check/benefits before he jumps ship for another job, but isn't putting out the work, it can give him incentive to get off your payroll earlier.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:00 PM on October 13, 2009
It can be a decent, respectful, yet firm wake-up call to say, "Shape up or ship out." Sometimes that is the correct reply.
Additionally, if he's only showing up to collect a check/benefits before he jumps ship for another job, but isn't putting out the work, it can give him incentive to get off your payroll earlier.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:00 PM on October 13, 2009
I've had a serious talk with him about the issue and he apologized and said he didn't see it that way, but he would try to improve.
Um, what? This part of your question set off alarm bells. He basically told you that you're WRONG about this, and now he's proving his point.
DarlingBri, bitdamaged, and mkultra have all given you excellent advice. Use it. Good luck!
posted by futureisunwritten at 12:01 PM on October 13, 2009
Um, what? This part of your question set off alarm bells. He basically told you that you're WRONG about this, and now he's proving his point.
DarlingBri, bitdamaged, and mkultra have all given you excellent advice. Use it. Good luck!
posted by futureisunwritten at 12:01 PM on October 13, 2009
I think there's a lot of great advice in this thread so far.
The few points I would repeat and stress based on my own experiences:
- consult with HR, your management, or your peers. Not only will it help you get a good plan in place that is most tailored to your needs and company, but it makes sure that everyone in a position of authority is on the same page.
- sit down with him and set clear goals. If you are in a relaxed workplace, he may see other people playing games and goofing off but may not realize what they are outputting or what their deliverables are. Re-enforce the fact that everyone is held to the same standard of output and production.
- follow up on the clear goals. Make sure the goals are achievable in various stages: daily, mid range and long term goals should be defined in whatever time period you want to work in. He can be "focused" on the long term goal of project X, but may not deliver on smaller pieces that can be delivered on a daily/weekly basis.
- (semi-optional) try to find out what caused his drop in production. Assuming things work out and he decides to stay with the company, you want to make sure you are able to avoid a similar situation with him (or someone else) in the future. Could be the project, could be the company, could even be you.
posted by tommccabe at 12:08 PM on October 13, 2009
The few points I would repeat and stress based on my own experiences:
- consult with HR, your management, or your peers. Not only will it help you get a good plan in place that is most tailored to your needs and company, but it makes sure that everyone in a position of authority is on the same page.
- sit down with him and set clear goals. If you are in a relaxed workplace, he may see other people playing games and goofing off but may not realize what they are outputting or what their deliverables are. Re-enforce the fact that everyone is held to the same standard of output and production.
- follow up on the clear goals. Make sure the goals are achievable in various stages: daily, mid range and long term goals should be defined in whatever time period you want to work in. He can be "focused" on the long term goal of project X, but may not deliver on smaller pieces that can be delivered on a daily/weekly basis.
- (semi-optional) try to find out what caused his drop in production. Assuming things work out and he decides to stay with the company, you want to make sure you are able to avoid a similar situation with him (or someone else) in the future. Could be the project, could be the company, could even be you.
posted by tommccabe at 12:08 PM on October 13, 2009
He's been on the team for 3 months
He didn't turn lazy all of a sudden; it takes a few months to settle into a job and figure out what's expected of you and what you can/cannot get away with. He's always been this way.
Now, what "this way" is becomes the question. He might be the kind of person who lumps along doing the bare minimum, and he might be the kind of person who is strongly motivated by imminent deadlines if there isn't enough work to do. I'm the latter, which is why I can type on MetaFilter regularly yet still turn in more than is expected of me and still meet my deadlines.
So first: evaluate his task results. Assuming he has a set of tasks he has to complete, and those tasks have deadlines, is he doing the tasks well and on time? If so, you can start adding more work to give him more to do, and he'll have less time to surf the web and whatnot. If not, he's failing at his job, is a bad hire, and you should start the HR-approved process to fire him.
However, I have to ask: does he have a set of tasks he has to complete, with deadlines? Are you checking in to see the status of those tasks, on a daily basis? If not, the problem is quite possibly with you, and you won't be able to fire him easily on the strength of "well, he doesn't have assigned tasks and he doesn't have fixed deadlines, but I feel like he's on the internet too much" -- that will just (rightfully) get the attention focused on your inability to motivate your employees.
posted by davejay at 12:08 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
He didn't turn lazy all of a sudden; it takes a few months to settle into a job and figure out what's expected of you and what you can/cannot get away with. He's always been this way.
Now, what "this way" is becomes the question. He might be the kind of person who lumps along doing the bare minimum, and he might be the kind of person who is strongly motivated by imminent deadlines if there isn't enough work to do. I'm the latter, which is why I can type on MetaFilter regularly yet still turn in more than is expected of me and still meet my deadlines.
So first: evaluate his task results. Assuming he has a set of tasks he has to complete, and those tasks have deadlines, is he doing the tasks well and on time? If so, you can start adding more work to give him more to do, and he'll have less time to surf the web and whatnot. If not, he's failing at his job, is a bad hire, and you should start the HR-approved process to fire him.
However, I have to ask: does he have a set of tasks he has to complete, with deadlines? Are you checking in to see the status of those tasks, on a daily basis? If not, the problem is quite possibly with you, and you won't be able to fire him easily on the strength of "well, he doesn't have assigned tasks and he doesn't have fixed deadlines, but I feel like he's on the internet too much" -- that will just (rightfully) get the attention focused on your inability to motivate your employees.
posted by davejay at 12:08 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Anytime you're ready to fire someone as a manager, you should take a moment to reflect:
"What did I do wrong as a manager that didn't allow this person to succeed?"
Forcing people to do X,Y or Z is a failure. "Because I said so" is a failure. These areas are where someone isn't self-motivated or performing as needed. Probation is a wake up call....HR is a CYA method...
But, since you're ready to fire him, why even come here? Either you have an open mind and he can improve, or you've decided you're going to fire him.
You spoke to him about the issue - but did you point out concrete items? Did you say, "During this past month you fixed 50 bugs, and in prior months it was 200+? Why the change?) He said 'he'd try to improve?" Without a concrete focus, how was this supposed to happen?
He may be burnt out, he may see himself as unappreciated or undervalued (yet he's a key developer.) But it's clear you're at odds over something and it seems to be you're not communicating as well as you should.
posted by filmgeek at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2009 [8 favorites]
"What did I do wrong as a manager that didn't allow this person to succeed?"
Forcing people to do X,Y or Z is a failure. "Because I said so" is a failure. These areas are where someone isn't self-motivated or performing as needed. Probation is a wake up call....HR is a CYA method...
But, since you're ready to fire him, why even come here? Either you have an open mind and he can improve, or you've decided you're going to fire him.
You spoke to him about the issue - but did you point out concrete items? Did you say, "During this past month you fixed 50 bugs, and in prior months it was 200+? Why the change?) He said 'he'd try to improve?" Without a concrete focus, how was this supposed to happen?
He may be burnt out, he may see himself as unappreciated or undervalued (yet he's a key developer.) But it's clear you're at odds over something and it seems to be you're not communicating as well as you should.
posted by filmgeek at 12:10 PM on October 13, 2009 [8 favorites]
I'm still with Davejay and I disagree to all of those who suggest that micromanagement is the solution here, especially in a relaxed company. The OP says he's had a talk with the employee about "the issue" but does not say what "the issue" is, beyond, well, having the kind of relaxed schedule that is a part of the company culture.
I mean, maybe the guy is alarmed when Team Leader expresses his displeasure because he actually is doing his work. I dunno, I think Team Leader is going to have to chime in, the fact that he is Team Leader and is champing at the bit about this guy might signal that he's hungry for more of a management role and is looking for trouble. Reading into it, sure, but we're all kind of hanging out here.
posted by rhizome at 12:31 PM on October 13, 2009
I mean, maybe the guy is alarmed when Team Leader expresses his displeasure because he actually is doing his work. I dunno, I think Team Leader is going to have to chime in, the fact that he is Team Leader and is champing at the bit about this guy might signal that he's hungry for more of a management role and is looking for trouble. Reading into it, sure, but we're all kind of hanging out here.
posted by rhizome at 12:31 PM on October 13, 2009
Well, I think one important point is to make sure he understands exactly what's required of him. You both should have a clear picture of what's expected, and a way for him to measure what he's doing against what you're expecting from him.
posted by delmoi at 12:36 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by delmoi at 12:36 PM on October 13, 2009
Response by poster: Wow, guys, thanks a lot. I didn't expect that many replies.
First of all, if I wanted, I could single-handedly fire him without involvement of HR or anyone. But I have been through phases in my life where personal matters have affected my work and I want to give him a fair chance.
Secondly, daily meetings and clear goals are probably a good idea, I had already thought of that but frankly, I was too lazy to put it in practice. We do have weekly meetings and goals but due to the nature of the project (and the way the company is managed) everyone is more or less free to determine their own timeline within certain limits.
He didn't turn lazy all of a sudden; it takes a few months to settle into a job and figure out what's expected of you and what you can/cannot get away with. He's always been this way.
This is another point that is worth noting: before he joined my team he was working in a completely different environment. It was a huge corporation and either he was better off with the different, probably quite strict management style or he was slacking off as well, without anyone noticing it.
posted by cronholio at 12:40 PM on October 13, 2009
First of all, if I wanted, I could single-handedly fire him without involvement of HR or anyone. But I have been through phases in my life where personal matters have affected my work and I want to give him a fair chance.
Secondly, daily meetings and clear goals are probably a good idea, I had already thought of that but frankly, I was too lazy to put it in practice. We do have weekly meetings and goals but due to the nature of the project (and the way the company is managed) everyone is more or less free to determine their own timeline within certain limits.
He didn't turn lazy all of a sudden; it takes a few months to settle into a job and figure out what's expected of you and what you can/cannot get away with. He's always been this way.
This is another point that is worth noting: before he joined my team he was working in a completely different environment. It was a huge corporation and either he was better off with the different, probably quite strict management style or he was slacking off as well, without anyone noticing it.
posted by cronholio at 12:40 PM on October 13, 2009
The SCRUMM development methodology, with its daily standup meetings, mitigates these situations well, via simple peer pressure. Although riskier, so do leadership opportunities. Then again, I'm a SCRUMM team technical lead answering this from work, so YMMV.
posted by gsteff at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by gsteff at 12:43 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: @rhizome: Btw, when asked, he specifically asked _not_ to be put in a management position and insisted that he was content with the kind of work he was doing and he wouldn't feel confident doing anything on a higher level. It seemed really honest to me, though right now I don't know what to make of it.
posted by cronholio at 12:45 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by cronholio at 12:45 PM on October 13, 2009
We still don't know what The Issue that you have with him is, whether it's missing tasks or what, but your Secondly in your update makes it pretty clear that you are leaving things pretty nebulous, workwise, even going to far as to admit your own laziness in establishing "clear goals."
"Key developers" should not have to deal with "eh, whatever, man" management styles; it's like you're trying to hold him to a structure that does not actually exist. But then again, as you say, you don't like the guy anyway.
posted by rhizome at 12:48 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Key developers" should not have to deal with "eh, whatever, man" management styles; it's like you're trying to hold him to a structure that does not actually exist. But then again, as you say, you don't like the guy anyway.
posted by rhizome at 12:48 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
@cronholio: I was referring to you. You're the Team Leader, right?
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by rhizome at 12:49 PM on October 13, 2009
The important thing with the daily standup, and why it works, is it be extremely brief - everyone says what they've done, what they expect to be doing, and if there are any impediments along the way. As a team member (and someone who is very easily distracted) I find them extremely useful for keeping myself on track, and as mentioned above if your guy just says "I didn't do anything" or excusy variations on that every day then peer pressure is going to do your job for you. If he's giving the same impediments every day then really you need to remove those impediments.
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by Artw at 1:05 PM on October 13, 2009
Allow me to give some insight from the other side of this.
I was recently given "a talking to" by my boss. The truth of the matter is, I have had some very distracting and draining issues happening in my personal life, and at the same time, the amount of actual work I have to do has really dried up in the last 6 months or so. This led to me being extremely unmotivated to drag my butt into work every day and sit there doing nothing.
My situation is a bit different in that I have worked at this company for about 20 years, with a few breaks when I went elsewhere for a few years, but I was always welcome back at this company. I like to think that, in general, I have earned a bit of respect.
My job has always involved some out-of-hours, from home work. And I've always been able to get away with starting just after 9 (say 9:10) and leave just before 5 (say 4:45), so that I can avoid the worst of the peak hour rush (which can be hell here). Aside from the after-hours work, I also don't take a lunch break (well, I eat a sandwich at my desk), to try to make up for the time. And always, if there is REASON to work back or start early, I do it with no qualms. I like my work, and I like to be busy. But when it's a bit slow, I do whatever I can to avoid peak hour. This has never been a problem.
But I moved into a different team about a year ago.
So, I called in sick one day a month or so ago. When I phoned, the boss said "well let's meet for a coffee tomorrow and have a chat about this". I thought "Great! He's figured out I'm bored and demotivated and might be trying to help me - reallocate some work to me, or something".
But no. It was all "It's been noted that you've been arriving after 9 and leaving before 5. In your position (I'm technical, but the most senior level in the company, senior to much of the management), you're expected to keep up appearances."
So I took it in my stride, and just said "Yeah, OK, understood."
What he DIDN'T tell me until after the conversation, was that HR were involved, and it was all going in writing and copied to them. I thought it was just a friendly chat with my boss over coffee. If I'd known it was all on record, I would have tried to explain myself more.
So for the last month I've been leaving home an hour earlier, to get to work 20 minutes earlier, sitting there all day, still with nothing to do, and leaving after 5, and battling with the commute.
Since I know my time is being watched, I of course start watching everyone else in my team's time. Now that I've started paying attention, I know that I spend WAY more time in the office than most of the rest of my team. Some of them get in at 10:30 and leave around 5. Some have 2 hour lunch breaks. Some just don't turn up at all. The boss himself left at 1PM last Friday and didn't tell anyone where he was going. He just disappeared. Usually I wouldn't care much, but when I get warned about 10 minutes here and there, for the person who warned me to leave at lunch time without a word, REALLY ticks me off.
All of this has had the complete opposite effect of what I wanted. I am now even more demotivated, annoyed, angry, and feeling very victimised. I am also extremely paranoid about who (if anyone) said something about the hours I was keeping. I am quite certain that there wasn't an ulterior motive in all of this of making me want to leave, but that's the effect it's had.
So my advice is :
1. If you're going to say something "on the record", make sure the employee KNOWS it's on the record.
2. Be aware that he will probably start taking more notice of what others are doing around him. Don't be a hypocrite!
As you can probably tell, the whole thing has left me very ticked off.
posted by Diag at 1:11 PM on October 13, 2009 [14 favorites]
I was recently given "a talking to" by my boss. The truth of the matter is, I have had some very distracting and draining issues happening in my personal life, and at the same time, the amount of actual work I have to do has really dried up in the last 6 months or so. This led to me being extremely unmotivated to drag my butt into work every day and sit there doing nothing.
My situation is a bit different in that I have worked at this company for about 20 years, with a few breaks when I went elsewhere for a few years, but I was always welcome back at this company. I like to think that, in general, I have earned a bit of respect.
My job has always involved some out-of-hours, from home work. And I've always been able to get away with starting just after 9 (say 9:10) and leave just before 5 (say 4:45), so that I can avoid the worst of the peak hour rush (which can be hell here). Aside from the after-hours work, I also don't take a lunch break (well, I eat a sandwich at my desk), to try to make up for the time. And always, if there is REASON to work back or start early, I do it with no qualms. I like my work, and I like to be busy. But when it's a bit slow, I do whatever I can to avoid peak hour. This has never been a problem.
But I moved into a different team about a year ago.
So, I called in sick one day a month or so ago. When I phoned, the boss said "well let's meet for a coffee tomorrow and have a chat about this". I thought "Great! He's figured out I'm bored and demotivated and might be trying to help me - reallocate some work to me, or something".
But no. It was all "It's been noted that you've been arriving after 9 and leaving before 5. In your position (I'm technical, but the most senior level in the company, senior to much of the management), you're expected to keep up appearances."
So I took it in my stride, and just said "Yeah, OK, understood."
What he DIDN'T tell me until after the conversation, was that HR were involved, and it was all going in writing and copied to them. I thought it was just a friendly chat with my boss over coffee. If I'd known it was all on record, I would have tried to explain myself more.
So for the last month I've been leaving home an hour earlier, to get to work 20 minutes earlier, sitting there all day, still with nothing to do, and leaving after 5, and battling with the commute.
Since I know my time is being watched, I of course start watching everyone else in my team's time. Now that I've started paying attention, I know that I spend WAY more time in the office than most of the rest of my team. Some of them get in at 10:30 and leave around 5. Some have 2 hour lunch breaks. Some just don't turn up at all. The boss himself left at 1PM last Friday and didn't tell anyone where he was going. He just disappeared. Usually I wouldn't care much, but when I get warned about 10 minutes here and there, for the person who warned me to leave at lunch time without a word, REALLY ticks me off.
All of this has had the complete opposite effect of what I wanted. I am now even more demotivated, annoyed, angry, and feeling very victimised. I am also extremely paranoid about who (if anyone) said something about the hours I was keeping. I am quite certain that there wasn't an ulterior motive in all of this of making me want to leave, but that's the effect it's had.
So my advice is :
1. If you're going to say something "on the record", make sure the employee KNOWS it's on the record.
2. Be aware that he will probably start taking more notice of what others are doing around him. Don't be a hypocrite!
As you can probably tell, the whole thing has left me very ticked off.
posted by Diag at 1:11 PM on October 13, 2009 [14 favorites]
I have one more thing to add to my rather long post above. I'd had my annual performance review less than a month before this "talk", and it was all great, as always. "You're doing great. No problems. Keep it up."
posted by Diag at 1:28 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by Diag at 1:28 PM on October 13, 2009
"Secondly, daily meetings and clear goals are probably a good idea, I had already thought of that but frankly, I was too lazy to put it in practice."
Maybe instead of looking for ways to get rid of him, you could look for ways to improve your management skills - you know, do all those things you are too lazy to put into practice: setting clear goals will certainly improve your employee's morale and help him focus on the task at hand. Daily meetings are an opportunity to check in on what everyone is doing, and make sure that everyone has clear expectations, clear goals and the ability to measure progress.
Or you could just fire him.
posted by snorlaxx at 1:51 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Maybe instead of looking for ways to get rid of him, you could look for ways to improve your management skills - you know, do all those things you are too lazy to put into practice: setting clear goals will certainly improve your employee's morale and help him focus on the task at hand. Daily meetings are an opportunity to check in on what everyone is doing, and make sure that everyone has clear expectations, clear goals and the ability to measure progress.
Or you could just fire him.
posted by snorlaxx at 1:51 PM on October 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
Every time I've seen an employee turn lazy, he or she quit soon after for another job.
posted by malp at 1:51 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by malp at 1:51 PM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Holy God, if I could favourite Diag a million times, I would. This. This is exactly what happened to me!! And yes, the effect is severely demotivating.
If you take a quick look at my questions history, you'll notice another thing that happened to me that was severely demotivating; the job I took with the organization was not at all what I wound up doing. In fact, I wound up becoming the de facto administrative assistant to my boss, when I should have been doing high-level policy work. If your employee was hired to do one thing, but finds himself exclusively doing work that should be done by someone a couple of rungs down the ladder, then yes, I can see why his productivity is dropping.
Is this employee's day to day work anything like what he was hired to do?
posted by LN at 2:04 PM on October 13, 2009
If you take a quick look at my questions history, you'll notice another thing that happened to me that was severely demotivating; the job I took with the organization was not at all what I wound up doing. In fact, I wound up becoming the de facto administrative assistant to my boss, when I should have been doing high-level policy work. If your employee was hired to do one thing, but finds himself exclusively doing work that should be done by someone a couple of rungs down the ladder, then yes, I can see why his productivity is dropping.
Is this employee's day to day work anything like what he was hired to do?
posted by LN at 2:04 PM on October 13, 2009
No one has mentioned this, but I would suggest pairing him with another developer on some specific task for a while. Pairing always helps me on my unmotivated days. Having both a specific task to do and instant feedback on progress seems to help.
posted by bashos_frog at 2:09 PM on October 13, 2009
posted by bashos_frog at 2:09 PM on October 13, 2009
Response by poster: @rhizome: The guy does have his goals, defined by me, it's just that he's free to work on them in any order and way that he chooses. I admit that it's probably the wrong way to work, at least for him.
As for the other thing, I got that wrong, sorry. But it's nothing like that. It doesn't have anything to do with me wanting to be in a higher position and the guy in question should know that.
@Diag: That's a really shitty situation and exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid. I think that our company copes well with these problems and so far it has worked out okay, but I guess there are people that work better with a different management style, which is probably the case with the guy I'm talking about. For you it seems to be the other way around. I hope it will work out okay. Try not to let it get to you, keep your eyes open for other opportunities and let your superiors know that you're willing to work as long as they give you something to be motivated. And if you feel like it, explain to them the difference between being at the office from 9 to 5 and _really_ loving your job.
posted by cronholio at 2:11 PM on October 13, 2009
As for the other thing, I got that wrong, sorry. But it's nothing like that. It doesn't have anything to do with me wanting to be in a higher position and the guy in question should know that.
@Diag: That's a really shitty situation and exactly the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid. I think that our company copes well with these problems and so far it has worked out okay, but I guess there are people that work better with a different management style, which is probably the case with the guy I'm talking about. For you it seems to be the other way around. I hope it will work out okay. Try not to let it get to you, keep your eyes open for other opportunities and let your superiors know that you're willing to work as long as they give you something to be motivated. And if you feel like it, explain to them the difference between being at the office from 9 to 5 and _really_ loving your job.
posted by cronholio at 2:11 PM on October 13, 2009
I am this guy. For me, micromanaging makes it worse -- I stress out and buckle up. I've had "sit-downs" at previous jobs where I've been told I haven't been putting as much effort in as I once had. Simply put, there were no imminent deadlines and watching the rest of my team slack off all day or leave for excessive amounts of time made me feel more comfortable about surfing the web as well (actually the entire company was a bunch of loafers). And honestly? I think they sat me down because they realized that *my* manager was a footstep away from walking out the door and they needed someone they knew could do the job to step up so they had something to show *their* management. Like diag above, previous performance reviews were "fabulous!"
My current job has me doing many different tasks with incredibly varying degrees of importance and completely random deadlines. I love my job and once I got comfortable with the flow (as inconsistent as it is), I started slacking off again. This made me upset, because I had assumed one of the additional reasons I slacked off at the previously mentioned job is because I just didn't see myself there for very long -- there wasn't room for improvement and there was no totem pole to climb. Here, there is, and it worried me that something else was the issue -- which is probably the case as my attention drifts often -- but here are things I've done:
I find that I work harder when I have a lot on my plate at the same time and everything has a very strict deadline. Those deadlines are clearly marked and emphasized daily (or every few hours if it's a one-day job). This is particularly helpful when I have things outside of work that I'm stressing about. It doesn't allow those thoughts to seep in, and once I'm done with everything at work, I feel great about my accomplishments and therefore even a little better about whatever crap is going on at home, or I can at least know that I have no other work-related burdens waning on me and can focus on the personal stuff 100%.
Before I let myself have the "We couldn't help but notice.." talk, I brought it up at my last performance review that I need to have everything written out - bullet points or checkboxes for each and every little thing. I told them that I could do this myself or the PM could do it if they felt that was more time effective. I also let them know that I wanted them to create fake deadlines and not tell me the real ones (for various reasons). I asked if they could throw more work my way even if it was something that wasn't normally my task to see if I could do it alongside the person who normally does such work. The competitive nature of this as well as the challenge of learning or trying something new in and of itself kept me occupied and even helped strengthen that skill or others.
At first I thought this was a lot to ask and was fully expecting them to laugh in my face and tell me to grow a pair, but they were happy that I wanted to keep myself involved in my work and even happier that I was noticing myself slip before they did. They noted that this was the very reason they ended up hiring a PM to begin with. Not sure if your team has one or if you fill that role, but it might be something to look into if it's not being done already. Like a lot of people, we use Basecamp to help fulfill some of these things. If it's used correctly it can be a lifesaver.
Another thing that really helps me are weekly meetings, first thing Monday morning. A spreadsheet listing what everyone is doing that week as a visual reminder that there are things to do (and for you, how everyone adds up). I would highly suggest against end-of-the-week show-and-tells simply because not only can one person's work vary greatly from the next's, but it puts people in a position to feel guilty even when there was no work available.
Case in point, a few weeks ago at a morning meeting, someone accidentally clicked on the global timesheet when the phone rang. In a rush to answer it, everyone's billed hours were right there in 52" of glory. The company is very close, and we joke about a lot of stuff, but despite the fact that there was literally nothing I could do about the lack of work I could bill that week, I still felt pretty dumb in front of everyone.
You say he feels he hasn't done anything differently. Perhaps he hasn't. Instead of confronting him and making him worry, just hand off more things to him and see how he does with those. Sorry for the novel, but hopefully it helps.
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:21 PM on October 13, 2009
My current job has me doing many different tasks with incredibly varying degrees of importance and completely random deadlines. I love my job and once I got comfortable with the flow (as inconsistent as it is), I started slacking off again. This made me upset, because I had assumed one of the additional reasons I slacked off at the previously mentioned job is because I just didn't see myself there for very long -- there wasn't room for improvement and there was no totem pole to climb. Here, there is, and it worried me that something else was the issue -- which is probably the case as my attention drifts often -- but here are things I've done:
I find that I work harder when I have a lot on my plate at the same time and everything has a very strict deadline. Those deadlines are clearly marked and emphasized daily (or every few hours if it's a one-day job). This is particularly helpful when I have things outside of work that I'm stressing about. It doesn't allow those thoughts to seep in, and once I'm done with everything at work, I feel great about my accomplishments and therefore even a little better about whatever crap is going on at home, or I can at least know that I have no other work-related burdens waning on me and can focus on the personal stuff 100%.
Before I let myself have the "We couldn't help but notice.." talk, I brought it up at my last performance review that I need to have everything written out - bullet points or checkboxes for each and every little thing. I told them that I could do this myself or the PM could do it if they felt that was more time effective. I also let them know that I wanted them to create fake deadlines and not tell me the real ones (for various reasons). I asked if they could throw more work my way even if it was something that wasn't normally my task to see if I could do it alongside the person who normally does such work. The competitive nature of this as well as the challenge of learning or trying something new in and of itself kept me occupied and even helped strengthen that skill or others.
At first I thought this was a lot to ask and was fully expecting them to laugh in my face and tell me to grow a pair, but they were happy that I wanted to keep myself involved in my work and even happier that I was noticing myself slip before they did. They noted that this was the very reason they ended up hiring a PM to begin with. Not sure if your team has one or if you fill that role, but it might be something to look into if it's not being done already. Like a lot of people, we use Basecamp to help fulfill some of these things. If it's used correctly it can be a lifesaver.
Another thing that really helps me are weekly meetings, first thing Monday morning. A spreadsheet listing what everyone is doing that week as a visual reminder that there are things to do (and for you, how everyone adds up). I would highly suggest against end-of-the-week show-and-tells simply because not only can one person's work vary greatly from the next's, but it puts people in a position to feel guilty even when there was no work available.
Case in point, a few weeks ago at a morning meeting, someone accidentally clicked on the global timesheet when the phone rang. In a rush to answer it, everyone's billed hours were right there in 52" of glory. The company is very close, and we joke about a lot of stuff, but despite the fact that there was literally nothing I could do about the lack of work I could bill that week, I still felt pretty dumb in front of everyone.
You say he feels he hasn't done anything differently. Perhaps he hasn't. Instead of confronting him and making him worry, just hand off more things to him and see how he does with those. Sorry for the novel, but hopefully it helps.
posted by june made him a gemini at 2:21 PM on October 13, 2009
Another example Check out this AskMe from a couple days ago about a developer complaining about a boss telling him he's lazy while he feels like he has a good reason, etc.
Like I said, just make sure you've got measurable deadlines so it's really obvious to him how well he's keeping up with his assignments.
Do you guys use something like fogbugz to keep track tasks? I hate to shill for products, but it really is a nice system, and also includes time estimates.
posted by delmoi at 2:27 PM on October 13, 2009
Like I said, just make sure you've got measurable deadlines so it's really obvious to him how well he's keeping up with his assignments.
Do you guys use something like fogbugz to keep track tasks? I hate to shill for products, but it really is a nice system, and also includes time estimates.
posted by delmoi at 2:27 PM on October 13, 2009
davejay: ""well, he doesn't have assigned tasks and he doesn't have fixed deadlines, but I feel like he's on the internet too much""
I get the same treatment. I even get blamed for not being more proactive and volunteering to work on other people's projects. Boss even has the temerity to blame my personal communication skills for the team's absence of teamwork and cohesion. Everyone else runs into their cube and closes their office cube door device. And I'm the antisocial one.
posted by pwnguin at 3:17 PM on October 13, 2009
I get the same treatment. I even get blamed for not being more proactive and volunteering to work on other people's projects. Boss even has the temerity to blame my personal communication skills for the team's absence of teamwork and cohesion. Everyone else runs into their cube and closes their office cube door device. And I'm the antisocial one.
posted by pwnguin at 3:17 PM on October 13, 2009
What Diag said. Micromanagement sucks and being singled out for micromanagement makes managers appear to be inconsistent and vindictive. Clock watching leads to people working to the clock.
If the expectations are clear and are getting met, what's the problem? If they're not clear, then they need to be clear on both sides. If they're not being met, why do you and he not see it the same way?
posted by idb at 3:24 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
If the expectations are clear and are getting met, what's the problem? If they're not clear, then they need to be clear on both sides. If they're not being met, why do you and he not see it the same way?
posted by idb at 3:24 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
What idb said. Micromanagement only works on drones. If this guy is, as you say, a good developer and you micromanage him, you'll massively reduce the quality of his work.
this guy stopped doing more or less anything. I've had a serious talk with him about the issue and he apologized and said he didn't see it that way, but he would try to improve.
If he's not seeing what you're seeing, it follows that he has no real idea what needs to change, which will make his attempts to "improve" a waste of everybody's time. You also need to ask this guy what his expectations of you are, and make sure that, if those are reasonable, you meet them.
for 4 or 5 weeks now he has been working maybe half as much as before, probably even less. He comes to work very late and leaves early. He surfs the web most of the time.
Software development remains as much art as engineering, really good developers spend a lot of time thinking, and thinking is invisible to management. He might, in fact, be working smarter, not harder. What is the rest of his team saying about him? How many of them are telling you they're having to cover for this guy? If they're not, and you fire him, then team morale will suffer and your project will start to slip really badly.
Nothing has changed since, if anything, it got worse
This is kind of vague. Has nothing changed, or have things got worse? What things? What's your measurement method? If this statement reflects a subjective judgement call on your part, or is based on sampling of how often you see him sitting quietly with an edit window open, I can see why he has no idea what you want from him.
I don't like him too much personally
Do your best to try.
posted by flabdablet at 5:37 PM on October 13, 2009
this guy stopped doing more or less anything. I've had a serious talk with him about the issue and he apologized and said he didn't see it that way, but he would try to improve.
If he's not seeing what you're seeing, it follows that he has no real idea what needs to change, which will make his attempts to "improve" a waste of everybody's time. You also need to ask this guy what his expectations of you are, and make sure that, if those are reasonable, you meet them.
for 4 or 5 weeks now he has been working maybe half as much as before, probably even less. He comes to work very late and leaves early. He surfs the web most of the time.
Software development remains as much art as engineering, really good developers spend a lot of time thinking, and thinking is invisible to management. He might, in fact, be working smarter, not harder. What is the rest of his team saying about him? How many of them are telling you they're having to cover for this guy? If they're not, and you fire him, then team morale will suffer and your project will start to slip really badly.
Nothing has changed since, if anything, it got worse
This is kind of vague. Has nothing changed, or have things got worse? What things? What's your measurement method? If this statement reflects a subjective judgement call on your part, or is based on sampling of how often you see him sitting quietly with an edit window open, I can see why he has no idea what you want from him.
I don't like him too much personally
Do your best to try.
posted by flabdablet at 5:37 PM on October 13, 2009
Echoing what other people have said here. You really need to make sure that all your developers have measurable goals and concrete deadlines. That's the management side of being a team lead.
All that other stuff (stand up meetings, weekly status, basecamp software) is nice, but just setting clear goals for people is the most basic thing.
posted by kenliu at 6:07 PM on October 13, 2009
All that other stuff (stand up meetings, weekly status, basecamp software) is nice, but just setting clear goals for people is the most basic thing.
posted by kenliu at 6:07 PM on October 13, 2009
Real tasks with real meaning and real deadlines within a reasonable time frame. I feel like I'm not doing enough at work, but if I ask for things to do I get nothing or I get vague requests which seem like they're more make-work than anything else. No real deadline, just "try to do this and see how it works."
It's frustrating. I'd rather be busy than lazy, but there's no motivation if things don't ever need to be done (or need to be done in the next two months), and when the tasks feel that the results won't even be noticed or used, there feels like pretty minimal purpose to actually working on them.
Maybe he also felt like he was doing more work than others but not getting any recognition or reward for it, and, who knows, maybe he's even being paid less than the people who are doing less work. That can be a real demotivator. People like to know that their work is producing some sort of useful effect, and that they're not being taken advantage of.
posted by that girl at 6:30 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's frustrating. I'd rather be busy than lazy, but there's no motivation if things don't ever need to be done (or need to be done in the next two months), and when the tasks feel that the results won't even be noticed or used, there feels like pretty minimal purpose to actually working on them.
Maybe he also felt like he was doing more work than others but not getting any recognition or reward for it, and, who knows, maybe he's even being paid less than the people who are doing less work. That can be a real demotivator. People like to know that their work is producing some sort of useful effect, and that they're not being taken advantage of.
posted by that girl at 6:30 PM on October 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: We use a ticketing system that includes timekeeping so I can clearly see he's been spending a lot less time on his work than before. Also there are deadlines he doesn't meet. What's more, I catch him surfing or reading ebooks a lot. So this is based on measurement as well as on personal observation.
From today, we will have daily meetings with clear goals for the day and I'll see how it goes. Thanks again for all the help.
posted by cronholio at 10:39 PM on October 13, 2009
From today, we will have daily meetings with clear goals for the day and I'll see how it goes. Thanks again for all the help.
posted by cronholio at 10:39 PM on October 13, 2009
He may just be bored. It may help to talk to him about some challenges / puzzles he wants to tackle and see if you can let him carve something out that would be beneficial for all.
posted by jasondigitized at 5:25 AM on October 14, 2009
posted by jasondigitized at 5:25 AM on October 14, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Pants! at 11:13 AM on October 13, 2009 [1 favorite]