I Wish I'd Put a Sock in It
September 27, 2009 10:24 AM Subscribe
Is there anyway to make up for a major mistake made almost a year ago to people I'll never see again? How to get over it and move forward positively?
Last year, on the day after the election, some executives were standing near the desk I was using at the financial services company where I was temping, and they were calling President Obama a lot of really nasty names. I looked over to the woman next to me, who I assumed had heard the same things, and asked, "What are these stupid f$#@$*ng white men saying?" Apparently, I upset the woman; after I left for the day, she went to the company's HR, who called my temp agency and terminated my assignment that evening. I am a POC and the woman I said this to was white. It's not something I have (or would have) ever, ever, EVER said in any other situation, but given what I heard and the day I heard it, I said what I said. Yet, I know I have no excuse, being an adult. I'll never let my emotions run away with me like that again.
I didn't mean to offend the woman, I was simply angry. I never saw her again, obviously. It's been over a year. I probably should've sent a note of apology to her and the HR office of that company that day, but it didn't occur to me. Hell, I should've gone to HR myself the moment those men started in on the president, but that didn't occur to me either. I know better now. I had only been at the place for two days. The account manager of the temp agency called me that night to let me know what happened, and he was livid. I apologized to him profusely, but they've not sent me on an assignment since, and I'm afraid that this has been held against me with regard to this agency and that my words from that day could affect my future employment.
I'm looking for work right now. Is this mistake going to be "on my permanent record"? How do I address it if it comes up in an interview?
Last year, on the day after the election, some executives were standing near the desk I was using at the financial services company where I was temping, and they were calling President Obama a lot of really nasty names. I looked over to the woman next to me, who I assumed had heard the same things, and asked, "What are these stupid f$#@$*ng white men saying?" Apparently, I upset the woman; after I left for the day, she went to the company's HR, who called my temp agency and terminated my assignment that evening. I am a POC and the woman I said this to was white. It's not something I have (or would have) ever, ever, EVER said in any other situation, but given what I heard and the day I heard it, I said what I said. Yet, I know I have no excuse, being an adult. I'll never let my emotions run away with me like that again.
I didn't mean to offend the woman, I was simply angry. I never saw her again, obviously. It's been over a year. I probably should've sent a note of apology to her and the HR office of that company that day, but it didn't occur to me. Hell, I should've gone to HR myself the moment those men started in on the president, but that didn't occur to me either. I know better now. I had only been at the place for two days. The account manager of the temp agency called me that night to let me know what happened, and he was livid. I apologized to him profusely, but they've not sent me on an assignment since, and I'm afraid that this has been held against me with regard to this agency and that my words from that day could affect my future employment.
I'm looking for work right now. Is this mistake going to be "on my permanent record"? How do I address it if it comes up in an interview?
How long were you working at that agency? Any chance you can leave them off your resume?
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:32 AM on September 27, 2009
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:32 AM on September 27, 2009
Too little, too late. Unfortunately, I feel like you're going to have to chalk this up to a learning experience and move on. I wouldn't even send an apology at this point - this is long in the past, and it's not going to help.
I would agree with PhoBWanKenobi and perhaps leave them off your resume if this wouldn't create too large of an employment gap. Otherwise, you're going to have to face this.
I'll let others postulate as to how you'd step around this in an interview.
Good luck, and I hope this one mistake doesn't cause too many issues in your future.
posted by SNWidget at 10:37 AM on September 27, 2009
I would agree with PhoBWanKenobi and perhaps leave them off your resume if this wouldn't create too large of an employment gap. Otherwise, you're going to have to face this.
I'll let others postulate as to how you'd step around this in an interview.
Good luck, and I hope this one mistake doesn't cause too many issues in your future.
posted by SNWidget at 10:37 AM on September 27, 2009
Leave it off your resume and don't work with that agency anymore or use them as a reference. If it's any consolation those guys weren't being professional either, you just can't get away with their level of unprofessionalism as a temp. You're payed to put up with degradation and abuse, or at least that was what I came to expect in my temping gigs, some of which were much better than others. Putting up with the sometimes conservative boys club corporate environment is not always easy. Let it go, you learned from the experience and can move on a wiser person.
posted by Marnie at 10:42 AM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Marnie at 10:42 AM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sadly, being a POC makes the situation a bit worse, especially with the use of profanity which is seen as angry.
I will say that those guys were way out of line. Politics has no place in an office environment so shame on them.
Having said that, I don't think an apology note would have done anything. Maybe apologizing to the agency would have helped, but that's all water under the bridge at this point. If you have the agency on your resume and your future employer gives them a call, I THINK (but do not know) that by law they can only verify employment and say they would or would not hire you again, not give any specifics as to why you don't work for them anymore. So "That crazy woman totally went on a racist rant while on assignment!!" wouldn't come up.
If it does, and it comes up in an interview, give your side of the story calmly and reiterate that you were not thinking clearly, and felt terrible about the whole situation. Let them know you realize the mistake you made and have taken steps to ensure you never lose your cool like that again. Perhaps remind them that the election was a high pressure time for all Americans.
Don't bring it up as a "what's the biggest mistake you've made at another job?" type BS questions. (Of course)
Everyone makes mistakes, and a good employer understands that. This could hurt you, but most companies will look at your overall performance and not this one incident. If anything, it will only seriously hurt your chances with another temp company.
posted by caveat at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I will say that those guys were way out of line. Politics has no place in an office environment so shame on them.
Having said that, I don't think an apology note would have done anything. Maybe apologizing to the agency would have helped, but that's all water under the bridge at this point. If you have the agency on your resume and your future employer gives them a call, I THINK (but do not know) that by law they can only verify employment and say they would or would not hire you again, not give any specifics as to why you don't work for them anymore. So "That crazy woman totally went on a racist rant while on assignment!!" wouldn't come up.
If it does, and it comes up in an interview, give your side of the story calmly and reiterate that you were not thinking clearly, and felt terrible about the whole situation. Let them know you realize the mistake you made and have taken steps to ensure you never lose your cool like that again. Perhaps remind them that the election was a high pressure time for all Americans.
Don't bring it up as a "what's the biggest mistake you've made at another job?" type BS questions. (Of course)
Everyone makes mistakes, and a good employer understands that. This could hurt you, but most companies will look at your overall performance and not this one incident. If anything, it will only seriously hurt your chances with another temp company.
posted by caveat at 10:44 AM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's a temp agency. There are lots of others. Build up good professional experiences in your future jobs. You could apologize to your co-worker, but only if it would be beneficial to them, and in this case, it I guess that they've moved on from this event.
Is it on your permanent record? Maybe, though clueful companies tend to be very general about negative experiences, for fear of lawsuits from ex-employees.
Building a good track record from this point on is the best advice. In a few years, you may even find the ideal job where you can tell this story (after you're hired and know everyone well, that is).
posted by zippy at 10:47 AM on September 27, 2009
Is it on your permanent record? Maybe, though clueful companies tend to be very general about negative experiences, for fear of lawsuits from ex-employees.
Building a good track record from this point on is the best advice. In a few years, you may even find the ideal job where you can tell this story (after you're hired and know everyone well, that is).
posted by zippy at 10:47 AM on September 27, 2009
This is not the end of the world for you. You made a mistake and it sounds like you've learned from it. I see from your profile that you're in NYC. I worked as a temp in Manhattan for many years. You're absolutely correct in thinking the incident is being held against you at this agency. So forget about them. There are a ton of NYC temp agencies. I just did a quick Google search and found four pages of listings. Does it have to be financial services? Try legal agencies, too.
The fact that it was a temp position is in your favor. The very nature of temp work makes periods of unemployment easier to explain. It's understood that temps have gaps in employment because they're TEMPS.
As others have suggested, apply to other agencies and omit that agency/position from your resume. Be prepared with solid, respectable reasons for unemployment (the current economy helps in this regard): school, travel, changing careers, freelance work, focusing on a home business, helping a sick relative, moving, etc. Don't get into anything too personal or dramatic. Temp agencies basically want to see that you're intelligent, level-headed, presentable, and in possession of the skills needed for the position. They also want to see that you can fit into corporate America and it sounds like you learned a big lesson in doing that. Good luck.
posted by Majorita at 10:55 AM on September 27, 2009
The fact that it was a temp position is in your favor. The very nature of temp work makes periods of unemployment easier to explain. It's understood that temps have gaps in employment because they're TEMPS.
As others have suggested, apply to other agencies and omit that agency/position from your resume. Be prepared with solid, respectable reasons for unemployment (the current economy helps in this regard): school, travel, changing careers, freelance work, focusing on a home business, helping a sick relative, moving, etc. Don't get into anything too personal or dramatic. Temp agencies basically want to see that you're intelligent, level-headed, presentable, and in possession of the skills needed for the position. They also want to see that you can fit into corporate America and it sounds like you learned a big lesson in doing that. Good luck.
posted by Majorita at 10:55 AM on September 27, 2009
Re: letting go-- I think what you did was a perfectly reasonable reaction, myself. It was just the context and the environment-- the workplace, and you being a temp-- that was the problem. I'd take a deep breath, understand that it was a moment in which you reacted with your heart and not your head, and stop beating yourself up about it. Best of luck.
posted by jokeefe at 11:02 AM on September 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by jokeefe at 11:02 AM on September 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
I disagree. You said something racially offensive to an innocent bystander and an apology is in order. I would send a note to the woman, not to HR. I would do it because it is the right thing to do, I wouldn't expect to get anything out of it work-wise. I wouldn't try apologizing to the temp agency. They stopped using you and they were right to do so. Actions have consequences.
On the other hand, it doesn't seem like you're saying "I made a mistake. I feel bad about it. What can I do to make up for it?" It sounds like you're asking, "I need work, how can I spin this?"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:11 AM on September 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
On the other hand, it doesn't seem like you're saying "I made a mistake. I feel bad about it. What can I do to make up for it?" It sounds like you're asking, "I need work, how can I spin this?"
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:11 AM on September 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
Temp jobs are shitty. I used to get fired from them for any number of silly reasons. Once a lady asked me if I was interested in hearing all about the long-term implications of the big project I was working on for one week and I said, "You know I don't really care."
I said it with a smile and she appeared to think it was funny, but sure enough when i got home I got the message I was no longed needed there.
It sounds like you overheard some really horrible racist remarks and responded in a pretty mild way. Your only mistake was directing your remarks to a woman who was either just as racist as them, or a narc. One thing about temp jobs is that 95% of the people who are "perm" who take the opportunity to treat you as sub-human. I remember once when I was temping, and a lady came in introducing someone new. She introduced the new person to everyone, then looked at me and said, "You're a temp, aren't you?" When I said "yes," she didn't bother to introduce me. This is like 10 years ago and I've never forgotten it. Such a tiny thing in relation to all the horrible shit that goes on in the world, but yet a perfect example of how people will treat their fellow human beings like absolute shit for no reason at all- just because they can.
Don't worry about this too much; there is no "permanent record." That agency will not hire you again, and I'm sure they have a mark next to your name reflecting that, but I'm sure they don't care and won't long remember why. Just use a different agency, there are 1000s. If anyone ever asks you about that job, say "the assignment ended."
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:42 AM on September 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
I said it with a smile and she appeared to think it was funny, but sure enough when i got home I got the message I was no longed needed there.
It sounds like you overheard some really horrible racist remarks and responded in a pretty mild way. Your only mistake was directing your remarks to a woman who was either just as racist as them, or a narc. One thing about temp jobs is that 95% of the people who are "perm" who take the opportunity to treat you as sub-human. I remember once when I was temping, and a lady came in introducing someone new. She introduced the new person to everyone, then looked at me and said, "You're a temp, aren't you?" When I said "yes," she didn't bother to introduce me. This is like 10 years ago and I've never forgotten it. Such a tiny thing in relation to all the horrible shit that goes on in the world, but yet a perfect example of how people will treat their fellow human beings like absolute shit for no reason at all- just because they can.
Don't worry about this too much; there is no "permanent record." That agency will not hire you again, and I'm sure they have a mark next to your name reflecting that, but I'm sure they don't care and won't long remember why. Just use a different agency, there are 1000s. If anyone ever asks you about that job, say "the assignment ended."
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:42 AM on September 27, 2009 [6 favorites]
Also, please don't kick yourself too much about how you handled it. If you had talked to company HR, they would have pretended to listen, then called the agency and had you removed from the job, and the agency would not have hired you again. If you had complained to the agency, the same thing would have happened. Trust me.
I don't see "just sit there and take it" as a viable response to such open racism, so I think getting away from that situation is actually the best outcome.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:52 AM on September 27, 2009
I don't see "just sit there and take it" as a viable response to such open racism, so I think getting away from that situation is actually the best outcome.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:52 AM on September 27, 2009
Well, I'm not sure it's any consolation, but this white woman would definitely not be offended by what you said.
posted by skjønn at 12:05 PM on September 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
posted by skjønn at 12:05 PM on September 27, 2009 [11 favorites]
You don't owe that woman an apology. She had the choice of speaking up and stopping the conversation. It's alright, sort of, that she chose not to. We don't know what her situation at that office was. It's absolutely not OK that after she didn't act to stop them she turned you in. Also, I'm pretty sure that when a bunch of white guys are bitching about the first african american president that calling them a bunch of white guys is a fair description. The "stupid fucking" part may not be fair but I'd guess that it was accurate.
posted by rdr at 12:08 PM on September 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by rdr at 12:08 PM on September 27, 2009 [3 favorites]
It depends on what kinds of nasty names they were calling him. Leadership can call people anything they want - so long as it doesn't cross EEOC lines. So if they didn't use any terms referring to his race, religion, sexual orientation, handicaps he may have and other protected cases, they were dicks, but not necessarily out of line and it's unlikely that even a permanent employee would be able to call it a hostile workplace.
Just find another temp agency. Now you know never to swear at work - not even around people who are dropping F-bombs all he live long day. If you really really have to say something personal to someone in the office, then make sure you know exactly who you are talking to.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2009
Just find another temp agency. Now you know never to swear at work - not even around people who are dropping F-bombs all he live long day. If you really really have to say something personal to someone in the office, then make sure you know exactly who you are talking to.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2009
I agree, chalk it up to experience and move on. Perfectly understandable that you'd blow your top in that situation, but it's also perfectly understandable the company would drop you like a hot rock— you've only been there for two days, they don't know that this isn't how you react to all bad situations. It's too late to apologize to the woman, and the companies don't care if you apologize or not.
posted by hattifattener at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2009
posted by hattifattener at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2009
It was a temp job, you weren't fired, your contract just wasn't continued. The employer benefits from this side of temping, so I don't see why you shouldn't.
As to the offence: you have clearly taken it on board yourself, and said "never again". It sounds like one of those perfectly understandable moments of stupidity which are well worth apologising for at the time, but it's not some mortal sin that you need to expunge even now. HR don't care, and I'm pretty sure that woman doesn't lie awake at night pondering your words.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:36 PM on September 27, 2009
As to the offence: you have clearly taken it on board yourself, and said "never again". It sounds like one of those perfectly understandable moments of stupidity which are well worth apologising for at the time, but it's not some mortal sin that you need to expunge even now. HR don't care, and I'm pretty sure that woman doesn't lie awake at night pondering your words.
posted by Wrinkled Stumpskin at 12:36 PM on September 27, 2009
Also, given that you're a POC, don't swear at work, especially around people who you can't trust to not read such an indiscretion as indicative of you being a "crazy [insert racial epithet here]". Just don't.
As for the woman who got you fired, you don't owe her an apology at all. She's either at least somewhat racist, unbendingly rule-oriented, or a thin-skinned ninny. While you made a mistake, it doesn't change the fact that she's probably a pretty useless person to begin with. Excuse my candor.
posted by thisjax at 12:58 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
As for the woman who got you fired, you don't owe her an apology at all. She's either at least somewhat racist, unbendingly rule-oriented, or a thin-skinned ninny. While you made a mistake, it doesn't change the fact that she's probably a pretty useless person to begin with. Excuse my candor.
posted by thisjax at 12:58 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Forget about it and move on. You don't owe any of those people an apology. Don't work with that temp agency anymore, don't list them on your resume, and don't mention the incident in an interview. It won't come up.
Really, stop beating yourself up about it. You lost your temper (understandably so) and dropped the F bomb at work. It's crappy that your assignment was terminated because of it, but you've realized that you made a mistake and learned your lesson on workplace behavior. And besides, would you really want to work in a place like that? I'm sure you can find something better. Good luck with the job search!
posted by emd3737 at 1:48 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Really, stop beating yourself up about it. You lost your temper (understandably so) and dropped the F bomb at work. It's crappy that your assignment was terminated because of it, but you've realized that you made a mistake and learned your lesson on workplace behavior. And besides, would you really want to work in a place like that? I'm sure you can find something better. Good luck with the job search!
posted by emd3737 at 1:48 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
What does POC stand for?
I looked it up on Wikipedia and the most likely definition seems to be person of colour.
posted by b33j at 2:18 PM on September 27, 2009
I looked it up on Wikipedia and the most likely definition seems to be person of colour.
posted by b33j at 2:18 PM on September 27, 2009
b33j--thanks, that would make sense given the context.
posted by dfriedman at 2:21 PM on September 27, 2009
posted by dfriedman at 2:21 PM on September 27, 2009
One person or group of persons being asshats or racists does not excuse what you said. You stooped to their level. I am not sure how her color or your color makes a difference. Saying anything along those lines is inappropriate regardless of the circumstances or location.
I don't see what you can say to this lady other than, "I am sorry if I offended you. This has been bothering me for a while as it is out of character. Please forgive me."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:38 PM on September 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't see what you can say to this lady other than, "I am sorry if I offended you. This has been bothering me for a while as it is out of character. Please forgive me."
posted by JohnnyGunn at 2:38 PM on September 27, 2009 [2 favorites]
It seems to me that if you're still worried enough about to ask this question, you need to do something to resolve the situation.
Why not just write to the woman, the HR dept and the temp agency, saying what you've told us? That it was a one-off 'brain-snap', you took the situation too personally and acted unprofessionally, you've worried about it ever since, and apologise profusely.
Hell, it may not help, but it can't hurt. And if I was you (as I was once, when I ended up sending a letter of apology to a singer, long story), I'd do it purely so I'd know I'd done the right thing.
Who cares if the woman or HR don't need an apology as 'closure'? If you need to apologise/explain to feel better, or to improve your chances of work through that agency, then do it.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 2:38 PM on September 27, 2009
Why not just write to the woman, the HR dept and the temp agency, saying what you've told us? That it was a one-off 'brain-snap', you took the situation too personally and acted unprofessionally, you've worried about it ever since, and apologise profusely.
Hell, it may not help, but it can't hurt. And if I was you (as I was once, when I ended up sending a letter of apology to a singer, long story), I'd do it purely so I'd know I'd done the right thing.
Who cares if the woman or HR don't need an apology as 'closure'? If you need to apologise/explain to feel better, or to improve your chances of work through that agency, then do it.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 2:38 PM on September 27, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you all for your answers.
I will do what I need to do to make the situation right according to the "do unto others..." standard that I (hope I) usually live by. I'm past thinking that that I'm going to get back in anyone's good graces at any of the places involved, even with an apology. I'd been at the temp agency with an otherwise exemplary level of satisfaction on all sides for 2+ years. And I hadn't wanted to hurt anyone's feelings that day. I was angry in the moment. That's all.
Thanks again.
posted by droplet at 4:35 PM on September 27, 2009
I will do what I need to do to make the situation right according to the "do unto others..." standard that I (hope I) usually live by. I'm past thinking that that I'm going to get back in anyone's good graces at any of the places involved, even with an apology. I'd been at the temp agency with an otherwise exemplary level of satisfaction on all sides for 2+ years. And I hadn't wanted to hurt anyone's feelings that day. I was angry in the moment. That's all.
Thanks again.
posted by droplet at 4:35 PM on September 27, 2009
Yes, it was a screwup, but it was not the sort of screwup that needs to be apologized for a year later. They've forgotten it. You were a temp.
Getting pissed off by comments like that happens. Sometimes making unpleasant comments back happens. That doesn't make it right. But just because you did something wrong doesn't necessarily mean you go back a year later and dredge it all back up again.
I like to think of myself as normally a kind and considerate person. The comments I once made to an acquaintance who sent me one of those "OMG SIGNS IN SPANISH THE MEXICAN APOCALYPSE IS COMING" email forwards were, um, not my usual, but I was badly upset so I said things that were stupid. I did apologize later for the language I'd used because we were still in contact. I would not have done that if she'd been someone I was never going to speak to again.
If you still feel bad about it, find something else to do to compensate--a random act of kindness, a gift to charity, etc.
posted by larkspur at 8:38 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
Getting pissed off by comments like that happens. Sometimes making unpleasant comments back happens. That doesn't make it right. But just because you did something wrong doesn't necessarily mean you go back a year later and dredge it all back up again.
I like to think of myself as normally a kind and considerate person. The comments I once made to an acquaintance who sent me one of those "OMG SIGNS IN SPANISH THE MEXICAN APOCALYPSE IS COMING" email forwards were, um, not my usual, but I was badly upset so I said things that were stupid. I did apologize later for the language I'd used because we were still in contact. I would not have done that if she'd been someone I was never going to speak to again.
If you still feel bad about it, find something else to do to compensate--a random act of kindness, a gift to charity, etc.
posted by larkspur at 8:38 PM on September 27, 2009 [1 favorite]
I didn't realize how long you had been employed with that agency. In light of this being 2+ years of otherwise exemplary employment that would be left off your resume, could you have a friend call the agency for a reference to see what they say about you?
posted by Majorita at 8:40 PM on September 27, 2009
posted by Majorita at 8:40 PM on September 27, 2009
There's another way to look at it. It's rude and tactless for a group of people to call names that way. You shouldn't have used profanity, but when your agency called, you could have stood up for yourself and said that the workplace had an offensive work atmosphere. You have a right to a respectful atmosphere, even when you're a temp. (I've temped a fair amount.)
You might have a note on your file at that agency. I doubt they've discussed you with anyone else.
posted by theora55 at 8:45 PM on September 27, 2009
You might have a note on your file at that agency. I doubt they've discussed you with anyone else.
posted by theora55 at 8:45 PM on September 27, 2009
Response by poster: I told the account manager at the agency what went down when he called to tell me my assignment had been terminated.
His response was that I was supposed to have been the bigger person and ignored them, or gone for a brief walk outside to cool myself down, since I knew, of course, that what they were saying was stupid. In that moment, though, I forgot about being the bigger person.
posted by droplet at 10:05 PM on September 27, 2009
His response was that I was supposed to have been the bigger person and ignored them, or gone for a brief walk outside to cool myself down, since I knew, of course, that what they were saying was stupid. In that moment, though, I forgot about being the bigger person.
posted by droplet at 10:05 PM on September 27, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by dfriedman at 10:31 AM on September 27, 2009