Help me incorporate weight lifting into my current fitness routine.

September 3, 2009 8:03 AM

How can I successfully incorporate weight lifting into my current fitness routine?

Backstory: was overweight for much of my adult life. Was around 220lbs at the start of '07, and dropped down to 160 since then. Mostly this was done through dieting but I have been doing yoga about 2 to 3 times a week for the past year, and about 6 months ago I upgraded to hot yoga (hot vinyasa flow, to be specific).

In terms of how I want to look, I'm pleased weight-wise, but I'd like to have a bit more muscle mass. Nothing insane, just a slight increase in bulk to help me more pleasantly fill out those size small tshirts I can now (finally) fit into.

That in mind, I wanted to start doing some weight lifting.

A few questions:

-I've been told I need 48 hours minimum to let the muscles repair in between sessions. Does this mean no yoga during this time, or just no weight lifting? I have tried to research this, but have heard a lot of mixed things. Some are saying yoga helps restore some of the lost flexibility, some say it actually hinders the muscles getting bigger. Does anyone have anything scientific that puts this issue to rest?

-Is hitting each muscle group once a week (i.e. like chest/shoulders/back on one day then arms/legs on another) enough to see results in any reasonable time period, or should I be doing 4 total days a week, hitting each group twice?

-Diet-wise, I'm still hoping to shed a bit more of my body fat. I'm currently at 10% (down from 24%, boo-yah) but I'd like to get that down another 1-2%. I've been on a diet of about 1300 calories a day (with weekends off) for a long while, but I understand that calorie restriction can hamper the repair process. What's a good amount of calories to aim for to continue to lose the fat but to still supply the muscles?

-Protein. I know I'm supposed to have a big dose of it in the 30 minutes or so after I work out, but do I need to also up my protein intake throughout the entire 48 hour recovery period? I've also heard one or two people mention extra protein leading up to a workout. Is this essential or just for the hardcore?

posted by reticulatedspline to health & fitness (35 comments total)

1) If you want to build muscle mass you need to lift free weights (not machines) and consume a lot more calories, principally in the form of protein, than you do now.

2) There is no reason not to do yoga or other conditioning exercises between periods of lifting weights.

3) You should structure your workout routine in the manner that works best for you. Some people find focusing on a particular body part each day to be the best way to lift weights; others find doing all the exercises on one day and resting for a day and then repeating the following day to be best. You don't sound like you're looking to be a competitive body builder so the structure of your weightlifting isn't as important as the fact that you're happy with it.
posted by dfriedman at 8:09 AM on September 3

I've been told I need 48 hours minimum to let the muscles repair in between sessions. Does this mean no yoga during this time, or just no weight lifting?

I think you should stop doing the yoga because it's a waste of time, but I can't imagine it will hinder your recovery. You'll get plenty more flexible doing proper strength training. If you're losing flexibility you're doing it wrong. But you can do bodyweight exercises or other light activities on rest days, you just shouldn't be lifting heavy weights. But if you find your progress stalling earlier than it should, cutting out any work on your rest days is a good idea.

Is hitting each muscle group once a week (i.e. like chest/shoulders/back on one day then arms/legs on another) enough to see results in any reasonable time period, or should I be doing 4 total days a week, hitting each group twice?

The idea of "hitting each muscle group" is completely wrong for a novice. For the best results you should be working your entire body 3x/week.

Protein. I know I'm supposed to have a big dose of it in the 30 minutes or so after I work out, but do I need to also up my protein intake throughout the entire 48 hour recovery period? I've also heard one or two people mention extra protein leading up to a workout. Is this essential or just for the hardcore?

You should be eating protein all the time if you want to gain muscle. Track your caloric intake and start with 3000-3500 calories a day, with as much protein as you can manage. If you're not gaining weight with that intake, increase it.

This is assuming a proper beginner strength program, e.g. Starting Strength. If you're going to do some kind of bodypart split or other silliness, just ask a trainer at your gym for advice and do whatever they say.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:26 AM on September 3

Is hitting each muscle group once a week (i.e. like chest/shoulders/back on one day then arms/legs on another) enough to see results in any reasonable time period, or should I be doing 4 total days a week, hitting each group twice?

Unless you are a professional bodybuilder already at or near their peak there is no reason to do a body part split routine. Instead you should be lifting three times a week focusing on a few compound movements: the back squat, the deadlift, the bench press, the standing press, the pull-up and either the bent row or power clean. Buy the book Starting Strength, read the Starting Strength wiki or read the StrongLifts blog. This will give you more specific programming advice but the general idea is you do three or five sets at five reps. Again, don't waste your time with a split routine.

To build muscle you need to eat -above- the amount of calories you need to break even for the day. As a novice, this is a little more flexible since your body adapts much more quickly than someone who has been lifting for a while. You are going to get heavier but don't worry as your body fat percentage will then go down since you will have more lean body mass. You'll look better, too. However, this only lasts for a bit. If you want to continue building muscle past a certain point you will have to eat much more than you currently are. Use a tailor's tape to measure your waistline. This is a good way to make sure you aren't putting on more fat than muscle. Don't worry about post-workout nutrition until you get your normal nutrition in line. It's not going to make a significant difference.

Also, 1300 kcal a day is way, way to frickin low.

Yoga is fine. Aerobic conditioning is fine. Hell, most anaerobic conditioning is fine too.
posted by Loto at 8:29 AM on September 3

That trampling sound you hear is hundreds of Mefi weightlifters stampeding to this thread to recommend Stonglifts 5x5.

They're right, too. The tone of the writing is a bit breathless, but the guts of the program, and most of the advice in the FAQs is really good. Try his suggestion in the the 'StronLifts 5x5 for Busy People', and hit the free weights twice a week according to his schedule.

W.r.t. your specific questions:

- No, yoga shouldn't impair the sort of training you want to do.

- The split work-outs you're talking about here do work for body-building, but if you're just starting off, you'll be better to do some strength training first. It sounds like you'd be happy with just the strength training, from the intro to your question.

- You're on 1300 calories a day? Damn, that's harsh. I'd say that you should make sure that you're getting lean protein with each meal, eat regularly through the day, and so forth, but you're probably already doing that.
I would say that you should keep your current regime going until you're happy with your body fat percentage, then step up your daily calories. I'm 5'8"/155 lbs. and I eat about 3000 calories a day, give or take, without affecting my body fat percentage to any great degree. I train with weights three times a week, and usually play at least an hour of football a week.

- Upping your protein intake throughout the time that you're training with weights is the way to go. It's a hassle sometimes, but it does help with recovery, etc.

Finally, congrats on the fat loss. That's some serious improvement there. Good luck with the weights.
posted by Kreiger at 8:49 AM on September 3 [2 favorites has favorites]

The Stronglifts site is here.

The link given above is incorrect.
posted by dfriedman at 8:59 AM on September 3

Dammit. Thank you dfriedman.
posted by Kreiger at 9:30 AM on September 3

It might be best to work with a trainer who can show you how to lift properly and help you build a program tailored to your needs. You don't need to do this for ever, but a few months worth should help you avoid learning bad habits etc. Stronglifts is pretty good, but you probably want to incorporate some more focused ab exercises, as well as work on some of the smaller muscles in your shoulder using smaller weights. At least from yoga you probably already have decent ab and core strength.
posted by caddis at 10:21 AM on September 3

Congratulations on the weight loss. I'm not an expert on weight lifting, but I have also lost a lot of weight over the last couple of years and managed to add enough muscle mass that I no longer look like the scrawny teenager I was when I started getting fat.

I made up my own routine that works for me. I do this once a week most weeks and I can see a difference. At weekends I'm usually doing something else that works my muscles, like chopping down trees or digging fencepost holes or something, I'm the kind of idiot that enjoys edging his own lawn with a spade. If I've got a quiet weekend planned I'll try to do this routine a second time, but don't always fit it in.

The first time you do it figure out what weights you're comfortable with. I'll put mine in for comparison, though my arm stuff is lower than everyone else I know. Weights are totals counting both sides of the bar

12-15 reps of leg press - 180lbs
12-15 reps bench press - 40lbs
12-15 reps seated calf lifts - 90lbs
12-15 reps compound row - 120lbs
12-15 reps tricep curl - 50lbs
12-15 reps lat pulldown - 110lbs
12-15 reps back exercise on this - 220lbs
10 x 30 second planks.

Repeat.

The back exercise machine is in there because I've had lower back problems for years, since incorporating that machine I haven't had a problem in over 18 months. You might want to target something different

I don't actually do everything in that order. I do both sets on the machines near each other then move to the next lot of machines. This means I can blitz through this in just over 30 minutes during my lunch break.

The evening after I do this I reward myself with a nice load of protein, usually a rare tuna steak, sometimes a ribeye. It's totally unscientific, there are probably advantages to having the tuna right after.

As an alternative, my wife bought 10 sessions with a personal trainer who showed her some really good targetted exercises and designed a routine she could keep up with on her own later. It was money well spent, but I'm the kind of guy who likes to try everything and figure out what works for me.
posted by IanMorr at 10:23 AM on September 3

It might be best to work with a trainer who can show you how to lift properly and help you build a program tailored to your needs.

This is a good idea in theory, if you can find a trainer who knows what they're doing. Unfortunately you are very very unlikely to find one at a typical globo-gym, e.g. LA Fitness, Bally's, etc.

Stronglifts is pretty good, but you probably want to incorporate some more focused ab exercises

That's really not necessary. Stronglifts 5x5 already includes reverse crunches and planks, but even these aren't needed. The overhead press, deadlift, and squat will provide all of the core work you need, using the abdominal and lower back muscles for their natural anatomical role as isometric stabilizers. Roman chair situps, L-sits, and knees-to-elbows are all good assistance exercises though.

as well as work on some of the smaller muscles in your shoulder using smaller weights

Totally unnecessary. Heavy overhead presses and bench presses will work all of the muscles of the shoulder girdle according to their natural anatomical functions.

And IanMorr is surely a nice person who is trying to be helpful, but his program is really not good at all. I could explain why at length, but I'd be repeating material which is already in Starting Strength or Stronglifts and probably a bunch of other places, so just read those.
posted by ludwig_van at 10:44 AM on September 3 [1 favorite has favorites]

Weight training is like a lot of other things in that it follows the 80/20 rule: 80% of the results come from the first 20% of your routine.

Think about the human body. There are a few things it was designed to do, together or in isolation:
-Straighten the posterior chain/Lift something (squat/deadlift)
-Pull something vertically (pulldowns)
-Pull something horizontally (rows)
-Push something vertically (overhead press)
-Push something horizontally (flat press)

I would do those six exercises, 2 sets each, 2 or three times a week. There is no magic number of sets or reps. I would suggest 10 reps per set to start. Experiment around, find weights that are doable yet slightly challenging, and then try to bump them every other week. When you reach your strength limits, drop down to 5 reps and keep going. When you again reach your strength limits, take 2 weeks off and restart at a lower weight. For more info, www.hsnhst.com.

Eating: given that you sound like you tend to retain weight, you may not need to consciously change anything. I'd say follow your hunger for a month and see what happens. You can tweak the calories around once you've established some kind of reference results.

The point is to maximize the return on your time investment without taking any time or energy away from the routine you already enjoy.
posted by dualityofmind at 11:10 AM on September 3

Shoulder work can be necessary if a person has a history of shoulder problems or is involved in a sport prone to shoulder injuries. Overhead pressing will help greatly with these issues but more PT-like work with the rotator cuff may be needed.

Overhead pressing should also not be done if you lack normal shoulder mobility since you will exacerbate the problem.
posted by Loto at 11:11 AM on September 3

Overhead pressing will help greatly with these issues but more PT-like work with the rotator cuff may be needed.

Here's a comment from Mark Rippetoe on that topic. The rest of that thread may be germane as well.

But sure, if you have some serious injuries or joint problems, the standard advice may not apply to you. Since the OP didn't mention any in his question, I assumed he is in basically good health.

But in my personal experience, the majority of people who say things like "I can't squat because of my knee" are just making excuses not to do something hard.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:23 AM on September 3

I agree, a large majority of people don't need it. The people who do need it generally know that they do, too. With regards to mobility, I'm thinking of things like shoulder impingement which should be resolved before serious overhead work as the injury itself prevents a person from performing the lift with good form (active shoulders, elbows past ears, etc.). The comments probably weren't too necessary for this post but it's been on my mind since tweaking my shoulder on a bad snatch.
posted by Loto at 11:34 AM on September 3

Is it possible to get results at all using the machines? Everyone here seems to be advocating freeweights/barbells.

My thinking with opting for machines vs weights was a) I'm not looking for mind-boggling results. I don't want/need to become big and bulky and in fact I'd prefer to stay lean, just a bit more of a muscular/lean. b) I don't have a spotter c) I don't know the proper form etc for lifting free weights and I figure machines pretty much force you to use proper form, plus or minus remembering to not arch your back etc.
posted by reticulatedspline at 11:44 AM on September 3

Is it possible to get results at all using the machines?

As a complete beginner, you can see results from doing just about anything. However, the nature of those results and how long your improvement continues is going to vary based on what you're doing.

But the bottom line is that free weights are the most effective way for a beginner to train and none of your reasons for avoiding them are good ones. Of course it's rarely a good idea to start trying to learn about something with pre-formed ideas about what's the best way to do it.

a) I'm not looking for mind-boggling results. I don't want/need to become big and bulky and in fact I'd prefer to stay lean, just a bit more of a muscular/lean.

Getting big is very difficult. It doesn't happen by accident. If you start training and meet your goals, you can re-evaluate then. Do you want to reach your goals in 6 months, or two years? If you went with the former, you should seek the most efficient way to reach those goals, which in this case is going to mean using a barbell.

b) I don't have a spotter

The only lift that requires a spotter is the bench press. If you're benching at a gym, just ask any trainer or bystander to spot you. Chances are they're going to be a shitty spotter, but you can mitigate that by telling them exactly what to do. If you're working out at home there are a few ways to bench without a spotter. They aren't ideal though, so you should have a spotter when you bench.

c) I don't know the proper form etc for lifting free weights

So read up and learn. You've had a bunch of resources recommended to you. Nobody said this would be easy. And if it is easy you're not doing it right.

I figure machines pretty much force you to use proper form

Not really. Machines force you to use the machine's form, which may or may not be appropriate for your particular proportions. When you perform a lift correctly with a barbell, your body is expressing its own biomechanics. When you're using a machine you're locked into the mechanics of that machine. This can lead to muscle imbalances and injury.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:06 PM on September 3

If you're not set on weight lifting, I can highly recommend bodyweight exercises - specifically, I find simplefit to be a fantastic workout that doesn't take much time, is near 'full-body' and gets quick results when followed properly. They have a good community where you'll find compelling progress reports and clear directions on how to follow the program.
posted by soplerfo at 12:27 PM on September 3

Seconding ludwig_van on the machines. Free weights force you to balance the weight which works more muscles, the muscles that provide balance and many of these also help protect your joints. Lifting can be hell on your joints and soft tissue if done improperly, if you do too much too fast, and if the other supportive muscles are not being built up at the same time. Free weights help with the latter.

There are some machines which are pretty good, like a lat pulldown machine, or if you can not do pull-ups a pull-up assist machine.
posted by caddis at 12:51 PM on September 3

I figure machines pretty much force you to use proper form, plus or minus remembering to not arch your back etc.

Nawh, I find that I use worse form and do less when I use machines. They let you think you're doing the work but you feel such a difference when you have to concentrate on holding the dumbbell up, not swaying and so on. I would start out on the big muscles groups and see how it works for you. No need to do exercises targeting triceps etc. However, I do agree with caddis on the lat pulldown machine's benefits.
posted by Bunglegirl at 1:07 PM on September 3

If you use machines it's much easier to arch your back because you're not doing all the work.

The one thing I have found machines useful for is calf extensions.

As for using a spotter with the bench press: I never have but then I also don't try to maximize my weight when doing the bench press. Some would say this is foolhardy regardless.
posted by dfriedman at 1:43 PM on September 3

I'm going to chime in a bit different here. If someone can't describe what they want you to do in way that makes sense, they're just repeating 'stuff they've seen work' - and they don't understand it.

Arthur Jones (inventor of Nautilus - which almost every exercise machine is a derivative of, sexist, crazy sob), once said "If everyone in this country stopped exercising today, the average fitness of people would rise."

Machines vs. freeweights is pretty much malarky. I've worked (and worked out) with football players, olympians, osteoarthritic women , and even body builders.

It's the quality of the work you do (and safety!) that is paramount. One of the flat out, strongest guys I know, doesn't use freeweights period (he's been the strength coach for two universities (an SEC team, a big 10 team) and an NFL team.)

Look, if you fatigue the musculature based on function (a bicep curl, a chest press), inside the anaerobic period (60-180 seconds) you get stronger. Studies show there is no relative advantage to doing it twice. Given that sort of structure, with rest (48 hours) you get stronger. Splitting up body parts means that some body parts aren't really getting rest.

Your problem with yoga is twofold: it provides an excessive range of motion (flexibility) without increasing strength. You can get into positions where you're muscularly weak at the extreme edges of your Range of Motion; which leads to injury. Yoga doesn't have a balanced progressive overload - that would be - something that fatigues your musculature in an anaerobic period, evenly throughout the range of motion.

It's not bad, evil, or otherwise; it's just not a method to add musculature to your body.

Barbells/freeweights are a skill; 80% of your initial gains (on anything) are based on initial adaptation. Well designed machines, permit a full range of motion for a primary (single joint, bicep curl) or secondary (two joint, like a chest press) that's safe and effective.
posted by filmgeek at 7:47 PM on September 3

1) The idea that 48 hours is a minimum period of rest between sessions is ridiculous; how long it takes you to recover depends on your genetics, diet, sleep patterns, stress levels and the type of workout you do.

2) Yoga can increase flexibility; there is nothing scientific to support the assertion that yoga hinders muscles from getting bigger. Filmgeeks suggestions that yoga does not have balanced progressive overload and provides excessive range of motion are baseless, these two things widely vary on how you perform the yoga, and could be criticisms of any improper method of working out.

3) You've been misled by the bodybuilding literature on how frequently you need to workout and what muscle groups you need to 'hit'. Professional athletes and advanced bodybuilders use splits like this because they have progressed to needing this level of volume/intensity for growth, you have very little in common with these athletes and should be very careful when applying principals of their training routines to your own.

An analogy to illustrate; when learning to play the piano would you follow the practice routines of world class concert pianists?

4) Stick with multi joint pushing/pulling exercises (pullups, dips, presses, rows) and squatting/deadlifting, these are the most bang for your buck exercises, particularly for the novice trainee.

5) Here are some notes from Charles Poliquins fat loss seminar, this will give you better tools than counting calories to achieve the body fat level you desire.

6) There is no point in consuming a pre/post workout protein unless you already are eating enough protein in your regular diet, which happens to be in the range of 1-2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight.
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/73/5/1986
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=7550257

7) You can use bad form with machines or free weights, neither forces you to use proper form. I am unaware of any research that shows that using machines results in a lower injury rate in comparison to using free weights.
posted by zentrification at 11:29 AM on September 4

A couple of people at the start of the thread commented on 1300 calories a day being too low. I think they missed the "weekends off" part. I'm going to guess that with weekends figured in you're getting more like 2000+ a day on average. Because otherwise you'd be dead by now :).

If you like this eating plan and want to stick with it, you will probably need to do your heavy workouts on Sat/Sun when you have more fuel for the fire. I've seen various bodybuilding programs built around this idea (low cal during the week, high cal with workouts on the weekends) to try to reconcile the normally contradictory goals of losing fat and still building muscle / recovering from workouts. Note that I'm just saying that such programs exist, not that they're optimal and backed up by hard science. I never see anything in the area of fitness/nutrition that is built entirely on hard science. You just have to muddle through :).
posted by madmethods at 5:05 PM on September 4

If you like this eating plan and want to stick with it, you will probably need to do your heavy workouts on Sat/Sun

Let's be honest here. If you like this eating plan and want to stick with it, you will not gain any muscle mass and your workouts will stall quickly. For a 160 lb. guy training to gain muscle, 1300 calories is a good meal, not a day's nutrition.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:29 AM on September 5

I would agree with the notion that you are going to have to probably increase your caloric input because of the increased energy output. BUT since your main goal has been to lose weight for the past two years and it's not specifically to get HYUUUGE then I don't think you should be worried about instituting any drastic diet changes overnight. You should look into getting a quality protein shake and carefully stepping up your intake that way. Play with your diet a little and see how it goes. It's your body and you should know how you feel and what you are looking for from it. For supplement products I prefer Biotest's quality and cost. YMMV with other brands.
posted by P.o.B. at 7:25 PM on September 5

Followup:

So at the advice of pretty much everyone, I swapped out free weights on some stuff. Using them for biceps, shoulders, chest. For triceps I find I actually like the dipping thing (forget the name, you get between these bars and lift yourself) better than either the machine or weights. Legs and back I'm still using machines tho. The freeweights aren't nearly as difficult as I thought. Bicep curls in particular feel waayyy more natural than the machine, which forces my wrists to twist outward in a weird way.

Re: yoga - YES! Did it on the second day after a very hard workout and to my surprise it felt amazing. Loosened me up a great deal and wasn't nearly as brutal as I had expected. No resting pose needed.

One other question, with regards to getting a feel for how much to lift: so far I've been basically trying to lift as heavy as I know I can get through 2 full sets with if I push hard. Then if I end up tapping out (is that the right word? when you hit that point where it's not a matter of willpower but rather that your muscles can't physically complete the rep no matter how hard you push) in the final set I figure I've hit the right balance.

Is this a good way to judge it?
posted by reticulatedspline at 6:05 AM on September 10

If you're still splitting your workouts into biceps/shoulders/chest/legs/back, you've missed one of the most important points made in the answers here and you're severely limiting the effectiveness of your training.

I actually like the dipping thing (forget the name, you get between these bars and lift yourself) better than either the machine or weights.

Yeah, that movement is called a dip. It's a good movement, but it's usually used for beginners as assistance for the press and bench press.

One other question, with regards to getting a feel for how much to lift: so far I've been basically trying to lift as heavy as I know I can get through 2 full sets with if I push hard. Then if I end up tapping out (is that the right word? when you hit that point where it's not a matter of willpower but rather that your muscles can't physically complete the rep no matter how hard you push) in the final set I figure I've hit the right balance.

Is this a good way to judge it?

Well that depends, what does "2 full sets" mean? The best way for beginners to learn strength movements and make progress is by using sets of 5 reps. Then you're supposed to increase the weight every workout. If you don't manage to complete all of the reps at the intended weight, you either made too large a jump from your last workout, failed to recover properly (usually due to not enough food or not enough rest), or you might have truly stalled and will have to reset. This process is covered in detail in Starting Strength and the Stronglifts program.

Note that this only applies to the primary movements, i.e. squat, deadlift, bench, press, and clean. You can't/shouldn't treat assistance movements, like bicep curls, this way, as they involve fewer/smaller muscles and will be unable to progress steadily like the major movements.

Also the term for not being able to complete any more reps is failure. If you're regularly hitting failure in your workouts early on, something is wrong.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:13 AM on September 10

The most important thing here, in light of your goals, is that you are not put off and even enjoy what you are doing at the gym. Looking forward to going to the gym is an important factor here, although you surely do not want it to be a waste of time. Moving all your exercises over to free weight movements will definitely maximize your time in the gym, but if you don't feel you need to that is up to you. The best judge of your own body is yourself.
I would suggest a couple of things. Try to use at least one free weight movement per bodypart. For the back you could use pull ups. For the legs you could try out the squat or the deadlift. Don't worry about investing in any books. All the information you need can be found online. There are general sets and rep schemes that vary from program to program, but if you found something that works for you that is fine. Hitting failure does not mean you are doing something wrong, but you don't have to reach failure to have successful workouts.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:46 PM on September 10

The most important thing here, in light of your goals, is that you are not put off and even enjoy what you are doing at the gym.

If the question were "How do I have fun in the weight room?" and not "How do I build muscle mass?" the advice would be different. Enjoyment is not mutually exclusive with improving one's fitness, but effective training is not dictated by what's fun.

Before you even get through the door of the weight room, you should already know every thing you will do while you are there, the order in which it will be done, how much weight it will be done with, and how to determine the next workout based on what you do today. No one should ever arrive to train not knowing exactly what to do. Wandering around the gym, deciding what looks fun, doing it until the fun stops, and then doing something else is not training. Each training session must have a definite goal, usually an increase over the previous workout in the amount of weight lifted, or another definable objective based on the previous workout. -- Mark Rippetoe, Starting Strength

Anyway, the information is out there, do as you please. I've said all I have to say on the subject.
posted by ludwig_van at 7:13 PM on September 10

Each training session must have a definite goal

Are you aware of the OP's specific goals? Maybe you should read the question again and perhaps you need to come to some new insights on why different people have different goals in the gym.
Building muscle does not always entail gaining weight. Your advice is mostly moot in this matter, and as much as you seem to push him, so is Rippetoe's since you are clearly not aware of what the Asker is looking for.
posted by P.o.B. at 7:45 PM on September 10

I am not in agreement with ludwig on this, but then everyone approaches this differently and perhaps that is my point. Some people are so focused on their goal, getting huge, whatever, that enjoyment and similar amusements don't really matter. On the other hand many people struggle with motivation to continue their training. The rest of us are somewhere in between. I think for the average person having some fun, enjoying going to the gym, is important. That may not be the best way to make maximum improvement, but not everyone is seeking that. The greater bulk of people are better off just not quitting. I think one can seek big goals, have fun, and reach big, but perhaps not maximum, goals. I may not always look forward to my workouts, but I know that I will appreciate them and feel better when they are complete and that is a pretty good motivator. Many times I do look forward to them as they pull me away from my desk and its drudgery to some other place, even if it is filled with some pain. So, anyway, motivation is key for many if not most people. In running, aerobic conditioning, we have fartlek. You can do the same with weights, but with both you still need to push yourself to exhaustion for maximum gains. So, I think fun trumps maximum gains, but then Ahnold and I are pretty much opposites. If you want both fun and motivation and also maximum gains then you need a motivator. That can be a trainer or a training partner. You just follow their lead and don't question the pain unless it is of the damaging kind. You will surprise yourself with how far you can go. You would have quit at ten reps, but they tell you to do five more, you know they are crazy, and cruel, but then you do it. On the opposite side they are good too. You go for too much too fast and they pull you back to avoid injury. I think the point is that you have to establish what your ultimate goal is first. Your goals seem a bit modest so I think keeping it fun is really important to make sure you actually end up achieving those goals without quitting. Best of luck to you.
posted by caddis at 7:52 PM on September 10

Building muscle does not always entail gaining weight.

Strength can be increased through neurological adaptation, though only to a limited extent. But as muscle is not weightless, adding muscle does in fact mean gaining weight. But this is rather obvious and beside the point.

Are you aware of the OP's specific goals? Maybe you should read the question again and perhaps you need to come to some new insights on why different people have different goals in the gym.

I read the question. It says: "In terms of how I want to look, I'm pleased weight-wise, but I'd like to have a bit more muscle mass. Nothing insane, just a slight increase in bulk to help me more pleasantly fill out those size small tshirts I can now (finally) fit into. That in mind, I wanted to start doing some weight lifting."

So he wants to lift weights in order to increase his muscle mass. I don't see anything ambiguous about that. My responses have been aimed at answering that question.

Now, the OP may or may not be the type of person who is incapable of following through with a training program. He may or may not be just like all the folks with gym memberships who want to feel good about themselves by going through the motions of "working out" without actually learning anything or doing anything difficult. But (especially considering he's already managed to lose 60 pounds of fat) I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt by assuming that he's not one of those people. I choose not to be cynical and condescending in assuming that his answers need to be tempered by a consideration for how much fun his training will involve, as though he's like a child that can't complete a task unless it's entertaining. Nowhere in his question did he say "It has to be easy or I'm going to give up." I was a beginner not too long ago, and followed the same advice I am now advocating to great success. I'm only trying to share the wisdom I wish I had been given when I had the very same questions as the OP, and to dispel some of the silly nonsense that folks insist on perpetuating with regard to this topic, quixotic though that task may be.
posted by ludwig_van at 11:11 PM on September 10

adding muscle does in fact mean gaining weight. But this is rather obvious and beside the point.

In fact, no, it doesn't. I don't think it would exactly blow your mind to let you know that you can add muscle without gaining weight by losing fat at the same time. That is rather obvious and actually is the point.

To be specific I never said anything about it being fun or easy. You seem to want to nitpick a specific sentence where I said: "Looking forward to going to the gym is an important factor here, although you surely do not want it to be a waste of time. " I also said enjoy but that's still a world apart from fun and even than I don't think fun necessarily needs to be ruled out. By and large people participate in a lot of healthy activities for fun and it doesn't negate them in any way.
I've been around gyms, trainers, trainees, and athletes for a good twenty years and I think I can speak with some authority on motivating/discouraging factors. If you deem that cynical and condescending than all I can say (again) is maybe you should take a larger purview of why different people have different goals in the gym.
posted by P.o.B. at 12:55 AM on September 11

Not to step in on an argument, but I'll add that while I appreciate all of the advice it does seem like it's geared towards someone looking to do some serious body building.

I'm looking to incorporate some medium-level muscle building activity into what I already perceive to be a successful fitness regimen. From just yoga and diet alone I'm already looking better than I ever have in my life. I'd just like to fill out a little bit more in the torso. Not a lot, just a little.

As I see it, if I come out of this looking huge and beefy then I've failed miserably at my intended purpose.
posted by reticulatedspline at 6:28 AM on September 11

while I appreciate all of the advice it does seem like it's geared towards someone looking to do some serious body building.

Unfortunately you have been misled on this point, and this common misunderstanding is exactly what I was trying to help you avoid. It doesn't matter whether you want to gain 5 lbs. of muscle or 50, the most effective way to do so as a beginner is through compound barbell exercises for sets of 5 with a linear progression of weight and adequate nutrition and recovery. Period. The former goal will simply take less time than the latter. Good luck.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:14 AM on September 11

Thank you for clarifying, OP. My advice to you stands. You have not been misled.
ludwig_van, the misunderstanding lies in what you perceive my advice is about. I haven't doubted the effectiveness of your program, just that it isn't warranted in this case.
posted by P.o.B. at 8:59 AM on September 11