Subleasing tenant cosmetically damaged my table. How much, if any, of her deposit should I keep?
September 3, 2009 6:54 AM Subscribe
Subleasing tenant cosmetically damaged my table. How much, if any, of her deposit should I keep?
I am in my late 20's and I had a tenant stay at my place for 4 months in the summer as I subleased another place with my fiancee (in town for the summer). She paid her rent on time, was courteous, kept the place in good condition, and all in all a good fit. Unfortunately, she left hair products on my antique wooden dining room table (passed from generation to generation) and left a large black waxy stain on it around the size of two fingers held together, but in an irregular pattern.
It was very noticeable, and compounding the problem, as I tried to remove it, I stripped some of the red from the previous refinishing of the table several years ago. So, before it it was pretty obvious and bad, and now it is very obvious and bad.
I have received a handful of quotes pricing out the cost of fixing the table, and the general guesstimate is around $300-$350 (not including transport of the table top, which may or may not fit in my car, and would cost $130 round trip at my favourite place). All parties say that touching up the area would be visible and not ideal, and the entire top of the table should be redone, but none of the legs, etc. The entire top would need to be redone regardless of whether I had removed some of the colouring, as the removal of the wax would necessitate the full work.
Other relevant facts:
-The tenant gave me a deposit of $825.
-The room is shared with a roommate, but I don't think there is any debate about who caused the damage.
-There are very slight discolourations on the table from resting glasses, etc, but before the wax I would have not considered getting it refinished under any circumstances.
-I will get it refurnished due to this problem, either now, or when I move out of my apt into a house (estimated time-10 months from now). I would not have gotten it refurnished otherwise.
So, hivemind, what should I do, and what is fair under the circumstances? If I did the work now, what percentage of the final cost should the tenant be charged? Thanks.
I am in my late 20's and I had a tenant stay at my place for 4 months in the summer as I subleased another place with my fiancee (in town for the summer). She paid her rent on time, was courteous, kept the place in good condition, and all in all a good fit. Unfortunately, she left hair products on my antique wooden dining room table (passed from generation to generation) and left a large black waxy stain on it around the size of two fingers held together, but in an irregular pattern.
It was very noticeable, and compounding the problem, as I tried to remove it, I stripped some of the red from the previous refinishing of the table several years ago. So, before it it was pretty obvious and bad, and now it is very obvious and bad.
I have received a handful of quotes pricing out the cost of fixing the table, and the general guesstimate is around $300-$350 (not including transport of the table top, which may or may not fit in my car, and would cost $130 round trip at my favourite place). All parties say that touching up the area would be visible and not ideal, and the entire top of the table should be redone, but none of the legs, etc. The entire top would need to be redone regardless of whether I had removed some of the colouring, as the removal of the wax would necessitate the full work.
Other relevant facts:
-The tenant gave me a deposit of $825.
-The room is shared with a roommate, but I don't think there is any debate about who caused the damage.
-There are very slight discolourations on the table from resting glasses, etc, but before the wax I would have not considered getting it refinished under any circumstances.
-I will get it refurnished due to this problem, either now, or when I move out of my apt into a house (estimated time-10 months from now). I would not have gotten it refurnished otherwise.
So, hivemind, what should I do, and what is fair under the circumstances? If I did the work now, what percentage of the final cost should the tenant be charged? Thanks.
Having done some rental work before as a building manager, when you rent there is just assumed that there will be some wear and tear on the residence. It is the reason rent costs more than just the price of the mortgage and taxes and profit, you have to make enough to also put back into the building for the normal wear of someone living there.
I realize table damage from hair care products may not be "normal wear" but I bring this up because if this is the ONLY damage the tenant incurred, I'd say suck it up. Be the bigger person and charge them nothing.
But at most, I would charge them 50% of the repair. Per your own admission, there were drink rings, etc. on the table. The table was not in perfect condition up top, but will be after the refinishing. So perhaps keep $200 of the security deposit and take it as a lesson learned.
posted by arniec at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2009
I realize table damage from hair care products may not be "normal wear" but I bring this up because if this is the ONLY damage the tenant incurred, I'd say suck it up. Be the bigger person and charge them nothing.
But at most, I would charge them 50% of the repair. Per your own admission, there were drink rings, etc. on the table. The table was not in perfect condition up top, but will be after the refinishing. So perhaps keep $200 of the security deposit and take it as a lesson learned.
posted by arniec at 7:09 AM on September 3, 2009
But arniec, the poster isn't a landlord. She was subletting her apartment, presumably at the same price she was paying to her landlord. Unless she was adding some money on top of the contracted rent to cover the risks involved in subletting the use of her furnishings, she doesn't have any extra money from the rent she received from her subtenant to cover the kind of wear and tear that you are describing. I think Jupiter Jones' answer is more appropriate for this situation.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 7:14 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 7:14 AM on September 3, 2009
Response by poster: To foxy_hedgehog's point, I subletted the place for $100 under my rental cost per month.
(I will try to stay out of the conversation, but thought this was relevant. sorry)
posted by evadery at 7:15 AM on September 3, 2009
(I will try to stay out of the conversation, but thought this was relevant. sorry)
posted by evadery at 7:15 AM on September 3, 2009
If I were to sublet my place, I'd make sure that I left nothing that was precious to me there. That said, personally, I'd put this down to wear and tear and keep nothing, especially as she's been a model tenant in all other regards.
You should bear in mind that the tenant probably has no idea how much the repair will cost. I know nothing of such things and $350 strikes me as very expensive. To avoid bad feelings, if you do keep some of the deposit, it might be a good idea to provide a written estimate of the damage, receipts etc. when you inform her that you're keeping some money back.
posted by jonesor at 7:24 AM on September 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
You should bear in mind that the tenant probably has no idea how much the repair will cost. I know nothing of such things and $350 strikes me as very expensive. To avoid bad feelings, if you do keep some of the deposit, it might be a good idea to provide a written estimate of the damage, receipts etc. when you inform her that you're keeping some money back.
posted by jonesor at 7:24 AM on September 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think you're a horrible person if you decide to take some of their deposit or something, but I don't think you should. Did you specifically warn them that this table was highly valuable and not to set volatile stuff on it? Frankly, the damage sounds like it is one or two steps worse than the ring left by a coasterless cup of coffee.
You also might want to look into the legality of subletting in your locale. If this thing does turn ugly (and I understand that you've given no indication it would, as such), you won't want to be surprised to learn that you have no legal standing or anything.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2009
You also might want to look into the legality of subletting in your locale. If this thing does turn ugly (and I understand that you've given no indication it would, as such), you won't want to be surprised to learn that you have no legal standing or anything.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 7:25 AM on September 3, 2009
If I were your tenant, I'd be thrilled if you were willing to only take half the refinishing cost.
IOW, I think 50% may be fair. You may wish to adjust depending on her economic circumstances, though.
posted by amtho at 7:38 AM on September 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
IOW, I think 50% may be fair. You may wish to adjust depending on her economic circumstances, though.
posted by amtho at 7:38 AM on September 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you were already subletting at a $100/mo loss, I'd say charge her the full amount (however see my last paragraph below). Then again, I have no sympathy for people who are dumb enough to leave hair products (which were probably very corrosive) on a piece of nice furniture whether or not you informed them of the table's history and importance. She should have kept that stuff in the bathroom.
It might be a different story if she called you immediately after the damage happened, apologizing for it and saying it was an accident. But if she didn't do this, and was simply being careless and disrespectful of your furniture, then screw it. That's what deposits are for!
I do think that $350 to refinish a table top is a lot, though, unless it's a really, really big table (seats 8+ people comfortably). You might want to get another estimate. All they are going to do (I'm guessing) is sand it down and re-stain and seal it. You're talking about a couple hours of labor and maybe $20 worth of materials. I wouldn't pay more than $200. It also shouldn't cost you $130 to transport the table. You can rent trucks from U-Haul for $20/day + $0.59/mile.
posted by bengarland at 7:59 AM on September 3, 2009
It might be a different story if she called you immediately after the damage happened, apologizing for it and saying it was an accident. But if she didn't do this, and was simply being careless and disrespectful of your furniture, then screw it. That's what deposits are for!
I do think that $350 to refinish a table top is a lot, though, unless it's a really, really big table (seats 8+ people comfortably). You might want to get another estimate. All they are going to do (I'm guessing) is sand it down and re-stain and seal it. You're talking about a couple hours of labor and maybe $20 worth of materials. I wouldn't pay more than $200. It also shouldn't cost you $130 to transport the table. You can rent trucks from U-Haul for $20/day + $0.59/mile.
posted by bengarland at 7:59 AM on September 3, 2009
If I were a tenant and saw drink rings/general wear on a table, I wouldn't be as careful with it as I would be with a pristine, clearly-cared-for antique. That's not to say that being careless is ok, just that when you see that something is used in a certain way (i.e., you set drinks down on the table without coasters and allow marks to form), it is reasonable to expect to use it in a similar way (leaving bottles/jars out on the table is ok).
If you didn't mention to her up front that the table was of special sentimental value to you or request that she only use it with a tablecloth on top, given that it was already in need of some type of repair/refinishing, I'd hesitate to take more than 50% of the repair cost.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:01 AM on September 3, 2009
If you didn't mention to her up front that the table was of special sentimental value to you or request that she only use it with a tablecloth on top, given that it was already in need of some type of repair/refinishing, I'd hesitate to take more than 50% of the repair cost.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:01 AM on September 3, 2009
Unless you were specific about the care of your table (use coasters, etc) I don't think it's fair to stick her with the bill, especially since she's been so good otherwise. Charging 50% of the repair seems fair.
If you did mention the (emotional or otherwise) value of the table and she still left a stain, 75% would be more appropriate.
posted by caveat at 8:03 AM on September 3, 2009
If you did mention the (emotional or otherwise) value of the table and she still left a stain, 75% would be more appropriate.
posted by caveat at 8:03 AM on September 3, 2009
It wasn't her furniture. Just because the actual owner of the piece was slightly careless (the glass ring marks) doesn't give a guest license to do so.
Charge her the full amount of the repair, but get a second estimate, because that does sound a bit high.
posted by winna at 8:31 AM on September 3, 2009
Charge her the full amount of the repair, but get a second estimate, because that does sound a bit high.
posted by winna at 8:31 AM on September 3, 2009
If this were me, I'd charge 50% of the cost, because it was her bad, but I'm the one who's going to get the benefit of a newly refinished, gorgeous table that will be much better-looking than it was pre-tenant.
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:38 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:38 AM on September 3, 2009
Response by poster: Re: The ring marks - It is a dark wood table, and while there are very slight ring marks, they are VERY slight. You have to be consciously looking for them to see them. The wax stain was highly noticeable.
Re: Sentimental value - I did not give any warning as to the importance of the table, and I have no issue if it is thought of as just another table, albeit a table on the nicer end of the spectrum.
posted by evadery at 8:38 AM on September 3, 2009
Re: Sentimental value - I did not give any warning as to the importance of the table, and I have no issue if it is thought of as just another table, albeit a table on the nicer end of the spectrum.
posted by evadery at 8:38 AM on September 3, 2009
If you do decide to charge her, as others have mentioned, be sure to send her the invoice for the work (after you pay for it), and tell her that you've withheld $x of her deposit to cover x% of the cost of repair due to damage incurred during her stay. You should only withhold money from the deposit if you actually plan to repair it immediately, otherwise it just seems kind of shady, like you're trying to get some work done later on down the road at her expense.
Honestly, though, I don't think you should charge her for any of it unless you specifically told her the table was valuable. Did you take photos of the damage before trying to "repair" it yourself? If not, you don't really have any evidence of the damage she did to it.
posted by booknerd at 8:42 AM on September 3, 2009
Honestly, though, I don't think you should charge her for any of it unless you specifically told her the table was valuable. Did you take photos of the damage before trying to "repair" it yourself? If not, you don't really have any evidence of the damage she did to it.
posted by booknerd at 8:42 AM on September 3, 2009
$480. And not a penny less.
posted by jefficator at 8:54 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by jefficator at 8:54 AM on September 3, 2009
By leaving a precious heirloom there you took an understood risk, albeit one with fairly decent odds. Unfortunately it didn't work out, so now you have to pay the piper, at least in part.
This was clearly an accident in the normal course of things rather than reckless abuse, but that won't get you any discount at the refinishing shop. And if she doesn't have to pay anything, then what was the point of the deposit? (unless it was more for rent-skipping protection). The table was part of the package she was renting and which the deposit was intended to protect. So she's on the line for something.
But wear and tear repair is a normal cost of doing business, so just based on that we can say that she shouldn't be on the hook for the full cost. I nailed up pictures and stuff everywhere I ever rented, and even though the landlords in each case had to fill in those holes and repaint, not to mention clean the carpets, etc., I never lost any deposit money. While I think this issue is clouded somewhat by the sentimental value of the table, this is somewhat more than the usual stuff that people have to do between tenants.
Given the circumstances I think it would be reasonable to bear most of this yourself, recognizing that it's simply an unfortunate situation. Withholding 25% or a round number like $100 seems not unreasonable given your estimate. This fairly acknowledges that she is responsible but shows that you recognize that the repair costs are greatly disproportionate to the amount of actual damage she caused, particularly considering intent. 50% feels like too much when I imagine myself in her shoes. "Wait, I spilled something on the table and you're charging me $250?!"
posted by Askr at 8:54 AM on September 3, 2009
This was clearly an accident in the normal course of things rather than reckless abuse, but that won't get you any discount at the refinishing shop. And if she doesn't have to pay anything, then what was the point of the deposit? (unless it was more for rent-skipping protection). The table was part of the package she was renting and which the deposit was intended to protect. So she's on the line for something.
But wear and tear repair is a normal cost of doing business, so just based on that we can say that she shouldn't be on the hook for the full cost. I nailed up pictures and stuff everywhere I ever rented, and even though the landlords in each case had to fill in those holes and repaint, not to mention clean the carpets, etc., I never lost any deposit money. While I think this issue is clouded somewhat by the sentimental value of the table, this is somewhat more than the usual stuff that people have to do between tenants.
Given the circumstances I think it would be reasonable to bear most of this yourself, recognizing that it's simply an unfortunate situation. Withholding 25% or a round number like $100 seems not unreasonable given your estimate. This fairly acknowledges that she is responsible but shows that you recognize that the repair costs are greatly disproportionate to the amount of actual damage she caused, particularly considering intent. 50% feels like too much when I imagine myself in her shoes. "Wait, I spilled something on the table and you're charging me $250?!"
posted by Askr at 8:54 AM on September 3, 2009
If the value of the table is sentimental I would do the refinishing myself. The work is a bit time consuming, mostly in the sanding to remove the old finish, but it's not difficult and with a bit of research online you can figure out how to do it. If it had actual value as an antique then getting it professionally refinished is appropriate and Askr's idea of charging her $100 seems reasonable to me. I'd have a very hard time charging someone the full cost of a repair like that, especially if I'd not told them to take particular care with the item. And one needs to expect that a certain amount of wear and tear is a part of renting to someone else.
posted by 6550 at 9:07 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by 6550 at 9:07 AM on September 3, 2009
The table was apparently already not in pristine condition. You trying to do the work yourself did much of the current damage. She didn't exactly break your table by dancing on it during a kegger, but was using it to, like, hold stuff, which is pretty much what tables are for.
If you're going to charge her anything, I'd say no more than half of the refinishing cost at the place that would be cheapest overall, regardless of whether that's where you actually end up getting the work done. I think it's fine to bill her based on written estimates and get the work actually done in a few months if that's what you prefer, but you can't charge her to transport the table top just because you'd prefer to use some further away place.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:30 AM on September 3, 2009
If you're going to charge her anything, I'd say no more than half of the refinishing cost at the place that would be cheapest overall, regardless of whether that's where you actually end up getting the work done. I think it's fine to bill her based on written estimates and get the work actually done in a few months if that's what you prefer, but you can't charge her to transport the table top just because you'd prefer to use some further away place.
posted by jacquilynne at 9:30 AM on September 3, 2009
$350 is very reasonable to have the tabletop refinished.
50% is extremely generous on your part. It's would be fair to hold this amount back. Provide the bill or estimate.
Hair products on a wooden table.... that's what deposits are for!
Drink rings and sentimental value do not not not matter, so stop mentioning them.
The apartment came furnished. Furniture was damaged requiring professional repair. End of story.
posted by jbenben at 9:50 AM on September 3, 2009
50% is extremely generous on your part. It's would be fair to hold this amount back. Provide the bill or estimate.
Hair products on a wooden table.... that's what deposits are for!
Drink rings and sentimental value do not not not matter, so stop mentioning them.
The apartment came furnished. Furniture was damaged requiring professional repair. End of story.
posted by jbenben at 9:50 AM on September 3, 2009
That should not be considered "normal wear and tear". She damaged your table, she should pay for it's repair. She should be charged the complete cost of the repair.
posted by Sufi at 9:56 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by Sufi at 9:56 AM on September 3, 2009
Nthing that you should keep whatever the cost is to repair or replace the table. It's a simple matter of numbers, and it's just business.
posted by Citrus at 10:18 AM on September 3, 2009
posted by Citrus at 10:18 AM on September 3, 2009
Well, you've gotten no definite answers, have you? :)
As a landlord, I depreciate stuff mentally (though not on my taxes), and if a tenant damages something I won't charge more than whatever the current value is. IE, damage a new carpet and you buy me a replacement. Damage a 2 year old carpet and you pay half the cost, because I'm deriving an extra 2 years of use out of your mistake.
Rephrase the question: You're probably looking forward to getting the table refinished and all those old dark rings taken out. Its post-repair value will be higher than its pre-damage value. How much is it worth to you to have the pre-tenant damage taken out? $100? $200?
(Repair cost) - (increased value to you beyond just removing the tenant's damage) = (tenant's share).
posted by paanta at 10:28 AM on September 3, 2009
As a landlord, I depreciate stuff mentally (though not on my taxes), and if a tenant damages something I won't charge more than whatever the current value is. IE, damage a new carpet and you buy me a replacement. Damage a 2 year old carpet and you pay half the cost, because I'm deriving an extra 2 years of use out of your mistake.
Rephrase the question: You're probably looking forward to getting the table refinished and all those old dark rings taken out. Its post-repair value will be higher than its pre-damage value. How much is it worth to you to have the pre-tenant damage taken out? $100? $200?
(Repair cost) - (increased value to you beyond just removing the tenant's damage) = (tenant's share).
posted by paanta at 10:28 AM on September 3, 2009
Just a for instance: Would you feel the same if she left a hot pot on the table (for serving or otherwise) and caused a minor discoloration in the finish?
I think that 350 for refinishing a table is pretty ridiculous. You should shop around. You can get a custom piece of furniture for $350 in a lot of metro areas in the US.
posted by shownomercy at 11:53 AM on September 3, 2009
I think that 350 for refinishing a table is pretty ridiculous. You should shop around. You can get a custom piece of furniture for $350 in a lot of metro areas in the US.
posted by shownomercy at 11:53 AM on September 3, 2009
I can get a table at Ikea for $35, but I wouldn't call that comparable;))
No. Seriously. I know the OP understands my next point because she references having a favorite furniture repair shop AND having had the table previously refinished...but for everyone else who questions the validity of professional care or cost....
The table in question was designed for a formal dining room, is an antique, and was already worthy of previous professional refinishing. We can safely assume the table is on the large-side, has specific detail work that requires special handling, and can not be easily or cheaply replaced.
$350 is reasonable to have the job done correctly. Additionally, if it is discovered the hair product has substantially penetrated the wood, the table may never be the same, even with the professional treatment.
paanta has it totally correct regarding a formula to determine how much of the deposit to return.
Sub-tenant rented a fully furnished apartment. Sub-tenant damaged furniture in such a way that it requires professional repair. (We know the damage is serious because reasonable efforts to address the damage only made it worse.) It is appropriate that a reasonable portion of sub-tenant's deposit go towards the repair.
FWIW - I damaged a bit of hardwood floor recently by placing a leaky bottle of liquid castile soap on the floor. I LOVE refinishing old furniture for fun, yet I know I'll never repair that floor on my own. I'm going to have to hire somebody. Or pay for the repair out of my deposit!
posted by jbenben at 1:08 PM on September 3, 2009
No. Seriously. I know the OP understands my next point because she references having a favorite furniture repair shop AND having had the table previously refinished...but for everyone else who questions the validity of professional care or cost....
The table in question was designed for a formal dining room, is an antique, and was already worthy of previous professional refinishing. We can safely assume the table is on the large-side, has specific detail work that requires special handling, and can not be easily or cheaply replaced.
$350 is reasonable to have the job done correctly. Additionally, if it is discovered the hair product has substantially penetrated the wood, the table may never be the same, even with the professional treatment.
paanta has it totally correct regarding a formula to determine how much of the deposit to return.
Sub-tenant rented a fully furnished apartment. Sub-tenant damaged furniture in such a way that it requires professional repair. (We know the damage is serious because reasonable efforts to address the damage only made it worse.) It is appropriate that a reasonable portion of sub-tenant's deposit go towards the repair.
FWIW - I damaged a bit of hardwood floor recently by placing a leaky bottle of liquid castile soap on the floor. I LOVE refinishing old furniture for fun, yet I know I'll never repair that floor on my own. I'm going to have to hire somebody. Or pay for the repair out of my deposit!
posted by jbenben at 1:08 PM on September 3, 2009
Response by poster: As a followup, I decided to be nice and took $100 off the cost. She happily accepted.
posted by evadery at 2:45 PM on October 4, 2009
posted by evadery at 2:45 PM on October 4, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jupiter Jones at 7:06 AM on September 3, 2009