Is my friend's fiance a domestic abuser? If so, now what?

August 11, 2009 6:30 PM

How can I tell if my friend's fiance is an abuser and if he is, what can I do to help her realize she needs to leave him?

My friend and her fiance had a violent incident over the weekend at my house. He left and she was very resolved about breaking up with him. Over the next few days, she seemed to be searching for reasons to explain away why he became violent: alcohol, medication, a recent accident, job loss. I'm very concerned that she is not going to end the relationship.

More background. I have had a very bad feeling about this guy since they began dating. Murky past relationship history (including divorce), not good relationship with his mother (says "he has no respect for her"). A several months ago we were with her when they were fighting by phone and text, and he was very very verbally abusive. He'd been drinking. Her reaction at the time was "do I want this to be the father of my children?" We all agreed it was bad and she should cut it off, but by the next morning they were reconciled.

They have a very distrustful and rocky relationship overall, including jealousy on his part about her past hookups or boyfriends. He told me (the same night he attacked her) that he was very concerned about her ability to be faithful to him.

He also has said very offensive things about women to my husband and others in our group. We don't know this guy very well. We are a group that can have a sense of humor that is sometimes crass, but this guy's comments were just plain odd.

After the incident at my house, she confessed that recently his behavior has been physically intimidating - breaking dishes at home, shaking her, other threatening behavior -- during arguments.

So I'm trying to figure out how to 1) tell if he will be violent again; 2) if he is, what can I do/say to encourage her to leave him?

BTW - he has already given her the "I've never done this I'll never do it again I'll quit drinking any everything will be okay." She's been saying "he's so loving when he's not drinking." I know lots of drinkers, and even some alcoholics, but none of themm are violent, jealous, rage-aholics. Hence my fear that the drinking is not the issue.

Do any of you have somewhere to point me to tell if this guy has a bad and repetitive pattern? Can I get any information about his past to see if this has been a problem before? Anyone have this experience with a friend and been successful in getting her out of the relationship before it's too late (ie wedding and kids)?

posted by anonymous to Human Relations (29 answers total)

Sounds like it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck to me.

How close are you to the woman? I'd have a heart to heart with her not" in the heat of the moment". Tell her you will support any decision she makes but you need to share your concerns with her.

I'd try turning the tables and saying, if a man had done X Y and Z to me, what would you advise?

And I'd try HARD to get her to talk to a domestic violence counselor or get some literature with warning signs into her path. He sounds textbook.

And if you know about this much, I would bet there's more.

Good luck, this is a hard position to be in. My closing advice is to not give her an ultimatum and make it clear that she can call you or come to your place any time for any reason as a safe space. She might need it. And don't alienate her if she stays with him, it may take a while.
posted by mazienh at 6:38 PM on August 11, 2009

He sounds pretty bad. Not sure what you can do about it, but she should probably go to a therapist to figure out why she keeps going back to him.
posted by jabberjaw at 6:38 PM on August 11, 2009

The abuse is some component of the overall problem: the dude's a no-good dickhead. Document things for a short while so you'll remember them and then talk your friend about them: explain that this is a common pattern, that it's difficult to see at a given moment, but that it will only get worse and she (1) can leave him and be both safe and happy; and (2) can meet someone who treats her well.

Don't be afraid to get the cops or a shrink (for her) involved as well.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 6:40 PM on August 11, 2009

I agree that you don't need any more information about this guy. He is bad news.

One thing you haven't mentioned is whether your friend has a history of getting involved with abusive boyfriends. He seems to have her hooked, which to my mind would be most likely if it is a pattern for her.

I don't have any specific suggestions on how to intervene, but hopefully others will.
posted by alms at 6:40 PM on August 11, 2009

So I'm trying to figure out how to 1) tell if he will be violent again;

He's been abusive before, your friend says he's steadily been getting more abusive, so yeah, he'll probably get violent again.

2) if he is, what can I do/say to encourage her to leave him?

You may not be able to, but keep asking her "He's been abusive before, what makes you think he won't be abusive again?"
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:43 PM on August 11, 2009

ABUSER in bright red flashing lights

Could you get a group of her close friends together along with her and talk about it? She should not marry this man... at least not right now, probably never. It might soften the approach to encourage her to think about delaying marriage and insisting the abuser seek help.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 6:53 PM on August 11, 2009

So I'm trying to figure out how to 1) tell if he will be violent again; 2) if he is, what can I do/say to encourage her to leave him?

1) You can't tell when or if, but the future doesn't look good.

2) If it happens again (but heck...why wait??), tell your friend "Friend, I notice a pattern here. Your fiance is abusive and not in control of his temper. You need to stop making excuses for his behavior. I want you to know that I will stand by you and give you all the moral support you need if you have had enough and want to leave him. In fact, this is exactly what I think you should do for your own safety, but it is up to you."

Accept the fact that this might be the end of your friendship if she doesn't take this advice.
posted by contessa at 7:00 PM on August 11, 2009

This is the classic cycle of abuse. (And breaking personal belongings is in that category, btw.)
He'll be perfectly charming to her during the honeymoon stage. Then it will begin again. and again.
And again.

Be her friend. Let her know what you think of this guy but also let her know you are there for her, period. She's gonna need it.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 7:06 PM on August 11, 2009

One time is all it takes to be an abuser. How to tell her: If he does it once, he'll do it again, and the behavior will definitely keep escalating. Let her know that he is not welcome in your home, but that she is (as a safehouse, as said above). What does she get out of this?
posted by bunny hugger at 7:07 PM on August 11, 2009

I've been in a similar situation and most people aren't ready to hear what they don't want to hear, however it seems that she may already be thinking that she's in a bad place.

I would raise my concerns but also, help her with an actual escape plan (she can stay with you, you'll help her move, get a new phone #, etc.) so she can see that there ARE solutions.
posted by dzaz at 7:11 PM on August 11, 2009

Yep, abuser or not he's an asshole. Use the "I would hope that if I was about to marry an asshole, you'd be friend enough to try to stop me" (This didn't work on my sister, but i still think it's one of the better approaches, if she's willing to listen.)
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 7:13 PM on August 11, 2009

If he's actually hit her even once, he's an abuser. It sounds like it's escalating, to me. Most likely, the "I won't drink again" promise won't stick, because this guy hasn't suffered any real consequences yet, and isn't seeking any sort of help with that or his anger issues. The pattern is pretty classic, and I've seen it first-hand a few times, as well. Especially his jealousy about her past relationships -- I heard a clanging of fire alarms the second I read that -- it's been a common denominator in about all the cases of domestic abuse I've seen up close. (It's an outward sign of deeper problems)

Keep a close eye out, make sure she knows your couch is always open, don't welcome the guy in your home, and don't be afraid to bring in law enforcement if she's not willing or able to do it herself. The police don't need her substantiation to investigate -- it's become common knowledge that abused women are often in situations where they're unable to report the abuse themselves, and police routines have adapted to that fact in the last 20 years, or so.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:29 PM on August 11, 2009

The Power and Control Wheel. Bring this when you speak to your friend. Show it to her, see if she identifies with any of the examples. This will help to show her that this isn't just a one time issue, and its not okay.

Also, 1−800−799−SAFE(7233) - National Domestic Violence Hotline. Give this number to your friend, they can help her work through things in a confidential manner. Hell, you can call them too... they can give you better information about what to do or say than ask.mefi.
posted by bluloo at 8:09 PM on August 11, 2009

It's very clear that his behavior is abusive - in fact, it sounds like your friend has identified that herself. It could be very helpful to find a local domestic violence agency for resources and support - not just for your friend but for you as well. Many agencies offer supportive services for friends and families of victims. These services are offered because a victim of abuse will not leave the relationship until they're ready. No matter what you think, your friend is the expert on her safety and her relationship and it can be very difficult (and heartbreaking and scary) to stand by and wait. And I don't say that to increase your anxiety...it's just helpful to know.

One thing that is helpful to talk to your friend about is the cycle of manipulation - often referred to as the "honeymoon phase". That is a common misnomer - there's nothing romantic or lovey-dovey about it. It's manipulation - straight up. Abusers tap into the vulnerability of their victim when they are still in shock from the incident (doesn't need to be physical - it can be an psychological/emotional attack as well). This can be a really helpful and supportive psycho-education conversation; framing the behavior within the context of a pattern demonstrates its protracted nature and underscores that it will happen again.

The MOST important things for victims to hear are things along the lines of:
-I am concerned about your safety
-The violence will continue
-There are lots of resources, services and support for victims
-I love you and support you

I feel for you - you're clearly a very good friend. You're doing the right things. I am a DV advocate - please feel free to memail me if you need specific resources.
posted by boofidies at 8:24 PM on August 11, 2009

Cycle of Violence. To go with the Power and Control Wheel.
posted by C17H19NO3 at 8:49 PM on August 11, 2009

I have been in this situation with a friend, and it was so frustrating, because the things that were obvious to me (the guy's no good, he's a manipulator, if he hurts you once he'll do it again) were not obvious to my friend, who was head-over-heels. I talked and talked and talked, from the bottom of my heart, and it all kind of went in one ear and out the other. I think that you SHOULD talk to your friend, and make it all about your love for her, not your dislike of this guy. But I wouldn't hold my breath that she'll see things your way--sounds like he has a pretty strong hold on her.

One thing that I tried to emphasize to my friend--just because he's a "good person" (allegedly) does not mean that he is good FOR YOU. And even though he is "so nice when he's not drinking," well, he still drinks and he still gets nasty, so you have to look at the negatives at least as much as the positives. I like this quote from Augusten Burrough's Dry: "He's like this incredibly beautiful Van Gogh painting with slashes all through it. True, it's a Van Gogh. But look at those slashes."
posted by Bella Sebastian at 10:31 PM on August 11, 2009

Fiance????

Oh, dear. I think you have to flat out lay it on the line. It's a crossroads. If there are any family members of hers you can enlist in this, I would do so. And I wouldn't try to 'convince' her of anything. In fact, I would say 'I'm not trying to convince you of anything, but I need to say this out loud, to you, or I wouldn't really be your friend. Dirtbag Joe is an asshole. He's violent, he's untrustworthy, he'll make you feel like crap, and you deserve much, much better. I love you and I hate seeing this person in your life, but your life is your own and I'm your friend no matter what."

And then shut up about it.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:17 AM on August 12, 2009

I just wanted to add this point, if you go on and on and on about it, and you try to convince her with charts and graphs and so on, she's going to defend him, because you've set yourself up as One Side so she has to take The Other. So she'll refute your claims, say it's not really like that, you just don't know him, his childhood was horrible, he's very kind to bunnies -- etc.

So, all that's well and good, fine--you had a failed intervention, there. But when he does it again, and he will, and she finally has her moment of reckoning, you want her to be able to come to you without feeling humiliated, with some dignity. If she's had to take the position above, that will be harder for her to do.

And she's going to need her dignity.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 1:23 AM on August 12, 2009

He sounds pretty bad. But you also sound pretty judgemental. Two of your warning signs are that he's divorced and that he doesn't properly respect his mother?

We all agreed it was bad and she should cut it off

From what you said, she probably should. But there's also a difference between being a supportive friend and a controlling friend.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 1:46 AM on August 12, 2009

Two of your warning signs are that he's divorced and that he doesn't properly respect his mother?

Yes, but it's not that those are "the" two warning signs -- there are so many warning signs I lost count. It's the context of relationship problems, lack of respect for primary women in his life, and then, the whole breaking stuff, yelling, hitting, drinking, acting like a giant asshole thing.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 2:06 AM on August 12, 2009

Get your friend a copy of Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, and read it yourself, too. (You'll learn that taking a very active role in trying to persuade your friend to DTMFA when she's not ready probably won't work, and could even backfire horribly.)

In the meanwhile, find out about local resources for people in abusive relationships. Organizations, shelters, hotlines, everything. Be prepared to be a source of support and information for your friend. Make sure she knows you find the fiance's behaviour unacceptable, but be careful not to shame her if she's not able to walk away right now.
posted by sively at 4:02 AM on August 12, 2009

The graphic novel 'Dragonslippers: this is what an abusive relationship looks like" might be a good book if she's the sort of person who thinks she could never be suckered into a relationship like that (the author thought the same thing). The website for the book has a page on the warning signs of abuse.
posted by Coobeastie at 4:29 AM on August 12, 2009

I survived domestic violence -- I was married to someone who looked golden on the outside but who treated me to cycles of love and terror. The terror parts: emotional abuse escalated into physical abuse (kicking, pinching, pushing into walls) which then escalated into much worse: rape, slapping me so hard I lost hearing in my right ear for months, enormous bruises that were strategically placed so they'd be hidden by my clothing. I miscarried a baby.

Just remember: abusers don't go for strong, grounded women, so your logical reasoning may not click with her. And abusers don't start out being total jerks. The honeymoon period(s), combined with a woman who isn't convinced of her own worth, is what's making your friend feel on the fence. Control starts small, and as an abuser is more "successful" at controlling her, he escalates the cycles, with rewards of good behavior, great sex, gifts, etc. It's crazy-making. And it's meant to be -- it pushes you so that you don't know where you stand or how to think about so many things: relationships, your relationship, your worth, your body, your personal space. One really sad, untrue thought that can keep you in a relationship like this: I'm ruined for future relationships.

I've written about my experience before. Please read it (scroll down a little more than halfway in the comments). Please make her read it.

The question a friend asked me that made me really see his behavior for what it was: "If he were doing this to your sister H, what would you tell her?"

Going to a battered women's support group (just a few times) helped me see that every woman there was telling the exact same story. And it's a very old story.

The good news: I'm now married to an amazing, kind, wonderful man. We are expecting our 3rd child. I thank God every day for him, and that I was able to escape and change enough to value myself and look for true and lasting happiness -- and to demand the respect and love I deserved. I dearly hope your friend can get out and move on. Don't give up on her.

I would give anything to take those years back. But if anything I write can help another woman get out of a similar situation, it will have been worth it.
posted by mdiskin at 4:39 AM on August 12, 2009

People who promise to stop drinking and stop being violent rarely do. My aunt moved herself and her children to another province to get away from her abusive husband, who also promised to stop hitting her and stop drinking. It took several tries before she left. She has a scar on her arm from an iron.

You probably should let her family know what's up with her future husband. And you should probably try and help your friend. I think the advice up thread is good in this regard. It's important not to set up a situation where your friend ends up trying to defend her fiance.
posted by chunking express at 7:59 AM on August 12, 2009

Recalling a conversation with a friend who'd been in an abusive marriage years ago -- He had been trying to fix a leak under their bathroom sink without success, and was becoming frustrated. She mentioned to him that maybe he should call a plumber, in what he described as a "mocking tone," and hit his head trying to sit up from under the sink to answer her. She chuckled slightly at this, and he beat the crap out of her, with fists. Later, he convinced her that it was all her fault for suggesting that he was deficient at plumbing, and so had insulted his manhood, then when she laughed at him for hitting his head, it was "the last straw."
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:39 AM on August 12, 2009

It's hands down, no question, he's abusive. It doesn't have to start with physical violence - the verbal abuse should have been enough. It doesn't matter why he's that way (although understanding why may or may not help your friend.) What matters is that the longer she takes to get out, the more danger she's going to be in - and the worse it's going to be when she does try to leave. The fact that he breaks things and shakes her is absolutely an indicator of abusive behavior. The Power and Control wheel are tools where she can identify it. And here's the thing: even smart women sometimes end up with an abusive jerk. It's just a perpetual con job: he's incredibly whatever he perceives her as wanting, and then just when she feels safe he breaks out with the violence - until he's so violent she's terrified to leave.

There are only two ways this can end: she leaves, or he eventually kills her. That's pretty much what happens in abusive relationships and your friend needs to know that she's in a bona fide situation like this now.

Unfortunately, the victim mindset may have sunk in which is why she's still around this. He may well have convinced her she deserves the abuse by now - that is part of the isolation and intimidation, after all. And getting out won't be easy. She ultimately has to be willing to leave, and by the sounds of it, she's going to have to hide from this guy - he will go after her, based on the indicators you've given.
posted by medea42 at 11:28 AM on August 12, 2009

nthing a talk with her -- but probably one on one instead of as a group. lots of us who are in the midst of an abusive relationship still get very defensive -- and she may feel as though she's being attacked.

you are right about him being an abuser -- it doesn't take multiple acts of violence to make an abuser. AND because most abuse victims keep quiet about what is happening to them, there is probably a lot more going on behind the scenes that you are not privy to.

talk to her, calmly, and with an emphasis on "i'm scared for you, i'm worried, i'm always here for whatever you need" -- not on "you need to leave this relationship, you have to do what i'm saying right now"
posted by unlucky.lisp at 11:38 AM on August 12, 2009

I will second everyone who mentioned that coming out strongly against the guy is only going to turn her off and start defending him right now. The girl is still in 98% denial and trying to cling on to the relationship. Unfortunately, (a) you can't force her to leave, she has to decide to herself, and (b) odds are she will probably have to learn that she needs to leave the hard way. Unfortunately, with some women "the hard way" translates into many hits in the head, hospital visits, marrying the bastard and having his children. And there really isn't a way for you to stop this marital train if she's hellbound and determined to hop on it and stay there. Which she might be right now.

I strongly advise trying to stay neutral as best you can until you're sure that she is out and staying out. Pointing out that his behavior always cycles, always gets worse within the cycles, and will probably spread to their kids is good, but being all, "He's an abuser, no!" will probably not help your cause. Bottom line is that it's her decision, whenever she chooses to make it...however LONG it will take her to make it. Sigh.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:43 PM on August 12, 2009

I'm sorry to hear this. But she knows what's going on yet something in her is ignoring it and is in denial. Telling her to leave over and over will only make her go "yea yea" in her mind and she'll continue to put up with it. She needs therapy and the therapist needs to point out, as blunt as possible, what is going on in her life. It's shameful (I've been there) and as dumb as it sounds, it's very, very hard to leave. I wish I had better advise but she does need professional intervention.
posted by stormpooper at 12:08 PM on September 16, 2009