define 'car' . . .
July 29, 2009 7:11 PM Subscribe
Hypothetical Cash for Clunkers question - If I brought in a clunker, how much of the clunker must be there?
If I bring a car in for a cash for clunkers deal, could I not first strip the entire thing down to frame and wheels with the intent to sell the salvaged parts (body panels, seats, electronics, airbags) on craigslist, ebay, or to a junkyard?
If I bring a car in for a cash for clunkers deal, could I not first strip the entire thing down to frame and wheels with the intent to sell the salvaged parts (body panels, seats, electronics, airbags) on craigslist, ebay, or to a junkyard?
Best answer: cars.gov FAQ
How do I know if my car or truck is an eligible trade-in vehicle?
There are several requirements (but you also have to meet certain conditions for the car or truck you wish to buy). Your dealer can help you determine whether you have an eligible trade in vehicle.
Your trade-in vehicle must
* have been manufactured less than 25 years before the date you trade it in
* have a "new" combined city/highway fuel economy of 18 miles per gallon or less
* be in drivable condition
* be continuously insured and registered to the same owner for the full year preceding the trade-in
* The trade-in vehicle must have been manufactured not earlier than 25 years before the date of trade in and, in the case of a category 3 vehicle, must also have been manufactured not later than model year 2001
Note that work trucks (i.e., very large pickup trucks and cargo vans) have different requirements.
posted by contessa at 7:19 PM on July 29, 2009
How do I know if my car or truck is an eligible trade-in vehicle?
There are several requirements (but you also have to meet certain conditions for the car or truck you wish to buy). Your dealer can help you determine whether you have an eligible trade in vehicle.
Your trade-in vehicle must
* have been manufactured less than 25 years before the date you trade it in
* have a "new" combined city/highway fuel economy of 18 miles per gallon or less
* be in drivable condition
* be continuously insured and registered to the same owner for the full year preceding the trade-in
* The trade-in vehicle must have been manufactured not earlier than 25 years before the date of trade in and, in the case of a category 3 vehicle, must also have been manufactured not later than model year 2001
Note that work trucks (i.e., very large pickup trucks and cargo vans) have different requirements.
posted by contessa at 7:19 PM on July 29, 2009
Best answer: As I understand it, the car has to be driven in to qualify. The idea is to remove old, inefficient cars from the road; not to give people money for derelict cars they haul out of the woods.
So, you could strip it down to the minimum necessary to drive it in. You could take out all but the driver's seat, the radio, the interior trim, etc. However, you can't strip it down to a non-functional state and then push it in.
Likewise, keep in mind that driving a car with no body panels is probably unlawful. And it's obvious. I doubt they're going to take a car that clearly cannot be driven.
posted by Netzapper at 7:20 PM on July 29, 2009
So, you could strip it down to the minimum necessary to drive it in. You could take out all but the driver's seat, the radio, the interior trim, etc. However, you can't strip it down to a non-functional state and then push it in.
Likewise, keep in mind that driving a car with no body panels is probably unlawful. And it's obvious. I doubt they're going to take a car that clearly cannot be driven.
posted by Netzapper at 7:20 PM on July 29, 2009
Best answer: From the official government website:
The car must be drivable, but "The entity crushing or shredding the vehicles in this manner will be allowed to sell some parts of the vehicle prior to crushing or shredding it, but these parts cannot include the engine or the drive train."
I suppose, though, if you removed some parts before taking it to a junkyard, that that wouldn't disqualify it as long as it ran.
posted by lesli212 at 7:20 PM on July 29, 2009
The car must be drivable, but "The entity crushing or shredding the vehicles in this manner will be allowed to sell some parts of the vehicle prior to crushing or shredding it, but these parts cannot include the engine or the drive train."
I suppose, though, if you removed some parts before taking it to a junkyard, that that wouldn't disqualify it as long as it ran.
posted by lesli212 at 7:20 PM on July 29, 2009
It has to "be in drivable condition." I'm guessing that if someone wanted to be pedantic, anything that meant it would not pass inspection might be a sticking point. (Mechanically it may still be drivable, but legally?)
What the law allows and what the dealer will accept might be different things, but hells yeah, take out the stereo and swap out the good tires for crappy ones, etc. The airbag I don't know about, but you shouldn't mess with that anyway if you're not a mechanic.
IANAL.
posted by Number Used Once at 7:21 PM on July 29, 2009
What the law allows and what the dealer will accept might be different things, but hells yeah, take out the stereo and swap out the good tires for crappy ones, etc. The airbag I don't know about, but you shouldn't mess with that anyway if you're not a mechanic.
IANAL.
posted by Number Used Once at 7:21 PM on July 29, 2009
Best answer: You don't want to be too close to the edge since, the dealer has to drive it too. This is what the purchaser attest to as part of the rule:
The trade-in vehicle is in drivable condition, and an employee of the dealer has operated the trade-in vehicle to confirm that the trade-in vehicle is in drivable condition.
posted by smackfu at 7:27 PM on July 29, 2009
The trade-in vehicle is in drivable condition, and an employee of the dealer has operated the trade-in vehicle to confirm that the trade-in vehicle is in drivable condition.
posted by smackfu at 7:27 PM on July 29, 2009
If you take out the airbag, replace the wheels and tires with cheapies, and yank the stereo, those are all replaceable pieces that you can sell on eBay -- so pull 'em off, take the car to the dealer, and if they balk, go home and put 'em back on. Just avoid pulling off anything that's unlikely to sell or hard to put back on.
posted by davejay at 7:29 PM on July 29, 2009
posted by davejay at 7:29 PM on July 29, 2009
I'm trading my 1997 Ford Ranger as a Clunker on Sunday. Along with a running, street-legal vehicle, I have to deliver proof that the vehicle has been tagged and insured for the last year and a clean title. I am removing everything I can, though: tow hitch, brake controller, radio, Yakima Bed Heads, mud flaps, chin spoiler, and if I can find anyone who needs 14" alloys with nearly-new tires, they can have 'em in trade for their wheels.
I am VERY sad to see it go, but I paid $1500 for it five years ago. It'll never be worth $4500 again. I'm buying a Nissan Versa hunchback.
posted by workerant at 7:29 PM on July 29, 2009
I am VERY sad to see it go, but I paid $1500 for it five years ago. It'll never be worth $4500 again. I'm buying a Nissan Versa hunchback.
posted by workerant at 7:29 PM on July 29, 2009
Response by poster: To clarify, the car definitely qualifies under the rules on cars.gov, but after seeing how much car parts fetch I realized I could make a significant amount by removing and selling parts. Specifically I was thinking:
- hood hinges, hood
- bumpers
- roof rack crossbars (apparently these break and need to be replaced)
- wheels (alloy, if steel replacements are cheap enough)
- spare tire
- airbags
- radio
- power window/lock buttons
- dashboard, center console
- instrumentation panel
- all interior trim
- seats (all but driver)
- reprogrammable remote keyfobs
Clearly I would leave the car driveable, so I suppose the better question is: who makes the call on if the car is viable and how much of an incentive do they have to disqualify it (i.e. does their opinion of scrap value matter or do they just get $4500 in obama bucks regardless of condition).
posted by datacenter refugee at 7:36 PM on July 29, 2009
- hood hinges, hood
- bumpers
- roof rack crossbars (apparently these break and need to be replaced)
- wheels (alloy, if steel replacements are cheap enough)
- spare tire
- airbags
- radio
- power window/lock buttons
- dashboard, center console
- instrumentation panel
- all interior trim
- seats (all but driver)
- reprogrammable remote keyfobs
Clearly I would leave the car driveable, so I suppose the better question is: who makes the call on if the car is viable and how much of an incentive do they have to disqualify it (i.e. does their opinion of scrap value matter or do they just get $4500 in obama bucks regardless of condition).
posted by datacenter refugee at 7:36 PM on July 29, 2009
Did you seriously just ask if you could take off the hood? The hood that covers the engine? Where you live, could you drive past a cop in a car with an exposed engine and be okay?
posted by Number Used Once at 7:40 PM on July 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Number Used Once at 7:40 PM on July 29, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've been looking into this also, and (like the other answerers) I am not a lawyer and claim no expertise in this. BUT... keep in mind that the dealer may have the same questions. So, if you bring a car in that raises these questions, you may well be causing yourself more aggravation than necessary. The dealer could possibly refuse the car because they don't want to get stuck with the problem either.
Certainly stereo, tires, and some other items could be swapped. But once you get into body hardware and instrument panels and seats... it might just be a problem.
If you really want to pursue it, why not call the dealer before stripping the car, and just say you have a car that you want to bring in, but it's missing the [items you want to remove] and ask if that's a problem. Be sure to tell them it meets all the requirements as far as you know (ownership, registration, etc.).
posted by The Deej at 7:46 PM on July 29, 2009
Certainly stereo, tires, and some other items could be swapped. But once you get into body hardware and instrument panels and seats... it might just be a problem.
If you really want to pursue it, why not call the dealer before stripping the car, and just say you have a car that you want to bring in, but it's missing the [items you want to remove] and ask if that's a problem. Be sure to tell them it meets all the requirements as far as you know (ownership, registration, etc.).
posted by The Deej at 7:46 PM on July 29, 2009
Best answer: I'm not in the US, but I did just read this guide to the "Cash for Clunkers" over on Cockeyed.com. As usual Rob gives a great laymans terms explanation.
In regards to your specific question, he states:
"The program requires the scrapping of your eligible trade-in vehicle, and that the dealer discloses to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in. The scrap value, however minimal, will be in addition to the rebate, and not in place of the rebate."
Sounds like you will get something back for your parts, but I'm sure if you could see a few non-essential parts first you'd get a better price.
posted by trialex at 8:24 PM on July 29, 2009
In regards to your specific question, he states:
"The program requires the scrapping of your eligible trade-in vehicle, and that the dealer discloses to you an estimate of the scrap value of your trade-in. The scrap value, however minimal, will be in addition to the rebate, and not in place of the rebate."
Sounds like you will get something back for your parts, but I'm sure if you could see a few non-essential parts first you'd get a better price.
posted by trialex at 8:24 PM on July 29, 2009
Rob at Cockeyed is usually good at this, trialex, but I don't know what he's smoking with the title "Cash for Clunkers ends Friday." It doesn't end until the money runs out and I seriously doubt that will be Friday.
FWIW here's the page that will tell you if your old and new vehicles are eligible.
I am guessing dealers are going to balk at taking in a car with only one seat and numerous other things missing, worrying that they will not get their money if they do.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:13 PM on July 29, 2009
FWIW here's the page that will tell you if your old and new vehicles are eligible.
I am guessing dealers are going to balk at taking in a car with only one seat and numerous other things missing, worrying that they will not get their money if they do.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:13 PM on July 29, 2009
- hood hinges, hood NO
- bumpers NO
- roof rack crossbars (apparently these break and need to be replaced) YES
- wheels (alloy, if steel replacements are cheap enough) YES
- spare tire YES
- airbags NO
- radio YES
- power window/lock buttons Maybe, but why?
- dashboard, center console Maybe, but why?
- instrumentation panel NO
- all interior trim YES
- seats (all but driver) Probably not
- reprogrammable remote keyfobs YES
You have to drive it to the dealership. In my state, at least, a car without a hood, an odometer, spedometer, or airbags (if it was manufactured with one) cannot be driven legally on the road. The first cop you pass is going to bust your ass so hard you won't sit down for a week.
There's a difference between failing inspection ("there's a crack in your windshield, you should get that fixed") and literally unlawful to drive ("you have no windshield, sir, here's your ticket, you can walk home"). If it's not lawful to drive, it's not street legal.
posted by Netzapper at 9:35 PM on July 29, 2009
- bumpers NO
- roof rack crossbars (apparently these break and need to be replaced) YES
- wheels (alloy, if steel replacements are cheap enough) YES
- spare tire YES
- airbags NO
- radio YES
- power window/lock buttons Maybe, but why?
- dashboard, center console Maybe, but why?
- instrumentation panel NO
- all interior trim YES
- seats (all but driver) Probably not
- reprogrammable remote keyfobs YES
You have to drive it to the dealership. In my state, at least, a car without a hood, an odometer, spedometer, or airbags (if it was manufactured with one) cannot be driven legally on the road. The first cop you pass is going to bust your ass so hard you won't sit down for a week.
There's a difference between failing inspection ("there's a crack in your windshield, you should get that fixed") and literally unlawful to drive ("you have no windshield, sir, here's your ticket, you can walk home"). If it's not lawful to drive, it's not street legal.
posted by Netzapper at 9:35 PM on July 29, 2009
Driving a car without a hood and other body and safety components may be illegal, but there's probably nothing wrong with towing it to the dealer, if we're looking at the letter of the law.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:54 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:54 AM on July 30, 2009
Blazecock Pileon: "Driving a car without a hood and other body and safety components may be illegal, but there's probably nothing wrong with towing it to the dealer, if we're looking at the letter of the law."
But then you're back to the program mentioning the car having to be in drivable condition. The dealers might not consider it drivable condition, especially if it's towed in.
posted by IndigoRain at 1:31 AM on July 30, 2009
But then you're back to the program mentioning the car having to be in drivable condition. The dealers might not consider it drivable condition, especially if it's towed in.
posted by IndigoRain at 1:31 AM on July 30, 2009
I think the bigger issue is that you have to have owned the vehicle for an entire year, have current license plates, and be currently insured before you can get the Cash for Clunkers deal -- somebody on NPR specifically said this is specifically to prevent people from buying a $200 car off eBay and trading it in for a couple grand. The plan is designed to get working, yet gas inefficient, cars off the road, and the rules prevent cheap-ass consumers from subverting the intentions. You're out of luck unless you drive a crappy car already, or want to drive that crappy car for a year.
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:46 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by AzraelBrown at 8:46 AM on July 30, 2009
Is it defined to be "drivable" if it can be started and driven, or is it drivable if it needs to be street legal?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:39 AM on July 30, 2009
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:39 AM on July 30, 2009
That's a good question.
Cars.gov says there is $779 million left for all cars except category 3 trucks.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:49 PM on July 30, 2009
Cars.gov says there is $779 million left for all cars except category 3 trucks.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:49 PM on July 30, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by glider at 7:16 PM on July 29, 2009