How to split a restaurant bill fairly?
July 17, 2009 9:26 AM Subscribe
Going out for a meal with co-workers tonight. About 3 of us are vegetarians and the other 12 are not - they're going to be ordering steaks. Steaks cost at least £25 while vegetarian main courses cost £8.
Normally when the bill comes with this group, it gets divided equally (by someone who ordered something expensive) and we all pay the same amount - but I'm getting quite tired of this! To make matters more complicated, the company is throwing in a voucher for £50 off the whole meal so my original idea (to get a separate check for the vegetarians and divide it by 3) won't really work that well.
This is in the UK and the etiquette at least with this group seems to be not to make a big deal about who got what, who ordered what, etc. The other vegetarians are annoyed too but they are quite shy and not likely to speak up. What should I do?
Normally when the bill comes with this group, it gets divided equally (by someone who ordered something expensive) and we all pay the same amount - but I'm getting quite tired of this! To make matters more complicated, the company is throwing in a voucher for £50 off the whole meal so my original idea (to get a separate check for the vegetarians and divide it by 3) won't really work that well.
This is in the UK and the etiquette at least with this group seems to be not to make a big deal about who got what, who ordered what, etc. The other vegetarians are annoyed too but they are quite shy and not likely to speak up. What should I do?
You could always try to out-order the steak eaters by getting expensive drinks or desserts if you still want to benefit from the voucher. Otherwise, despite the voucher a separate check will still probably have you paying less overall.
posted by booknerd at 9:30 AM on July 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by booknerd at 9:30 AM on July 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
If splitting the check equally is insisted upon, I'd recommend you order additional entrees (to the tune of £25) and take them home. Probably a little more gauche than separate checks, though. ;)
posted by jquinby at 9:31 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by jquinby at 9:31 AM on July 17, 2009
Response by poster: I thought about the out-order idea, booknerd, but the trouble is that the steak-eaters tend to do this too. As for the alcohol, add in the fact that the vegetarians are all small females and the steak-eaters are larger, hard-drinking males, and there is no way we could out-drink them (although we'll probably try!).
posted by hazyjane at 9:33 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by hazyjane at 9:33 AM on July 17, 2009
Can you contact everyone by e-mail earlier, and calmly explain why the tradition is not really fair to you and the other vegetarians, and ask if people would mind doing things differently from now on? It will probably go much more smoothly than trying to discuss it at the restaurant. If you can't get buy-in for this, then the expensive-eaters are jerks, and you shouldn't go.
£50/15 = £3, which is pocket change compared to a £17 difference in mains. I would just forget about trying to get an equal share of the voucher—it will make things way too complicated, unless you actually want to make a spreadsheet or something.
posted by grouse at 9:35 AM on July 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
£50/15 = £3, which is pocket change compared to a £17 difference in mains. I would just forget about trying to get an equal share of the voucher—it will make things way too complicated, unless you actually want to make a spreadsheet or something.
posted by grouse at 9:35 AM on July 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Say: "Hey, carnivores, we're gonna get a separate check. Go ahead and use the voucher yourselves, don't worry about us." It's simple, it's generous (the people with the big bill get the voucher), and you'll still far, far be better off than you would be if you shared the check with the carnivores.
Without the voucher, you'll each wind up spending £8 apiece. If you share a check with the carnivores and get in on the voucher action, you'll still end up spending around £18 apiece if I'm doing the math right. (A £324 check, minus £50, divided 15 ways, is £18.26.)
Or, on preview, what grouse said.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:37 AM on July 17, 2009 [17 favorites]
Without the voucher, you'll each wind up spending £8 apiece. If you share a check with the carnivores and get in on the voucher action, you'll still end up spending around £18 apiece if I'm doing the math right. (A £324 check, minus £50, divided 15 ways, is £18.26.)
Or, on preview, what grouse said.
posted by nebulawindphone at 9:37 AM on July 17, 2009 [17 favorites]
Even if they shut you out of the voucher, you still come out way ahead if you get separate checks.
etiquette at least with this group seems to be not to make a big deal about who got what
Why would they make a big deal out of it since they benefit from your vegetarian ways? Try ordering a few appetizers for yourself, some expensive drinks, and two desserts (one to go). Since you won't be hungry for a meal with all of that, order the most expensive main course and just have it boxed up and give it to a non-vegetarian in your life or a homeless person. See if anyone wants to make a big deal out of that.
Or order three vegetarian main courses so it comes out equal to the cost of their main course, have two boxed up to go and you are set on food for the week.
But really, just get separate checks.
posted by mikepop at 9:37 AM on July 17, 2009
etiquette at least with this group seems to be not to make a big deal about who got what
Why would they make a big deal out of it since they benefit from your vegetarian ways? Try ordering a few appetizers for yourself, some expensive drinks, and two desserts (one to go). Since you won't be hungry for a meal with all of that, order the most expensive main course and just have it boxed up and give it to a non-vegetarian in your life or a homeless person. See if anyone wants to make a big deal out of that.
Or order three vegetarian main courses so it comes out equal to the cost of their main course, have two boxed up to go and you are set on food for the week.
But really, just get separate checks.
posted by mikepop at 9:37 AM on July 17, 2009
Ah, the age old dilemma. The reason that people like to split checks evenly at these things is not so that we can stick it to vegetarians (as if we need a reason.) Have you ever been the last person handling the check after 15 people all throw in "what they owe?" People forget items, miscalculate, miss tax and gratuity. I assure you, you do not want to be the one caught with the hot potato. Sounds like it's time for some good Champagne.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:38 AM on July 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 9:38 AM on July 17, 2009 [5 favorites]
£50 between 15 people is peanuts. Get a separate bill for the vegetarians (make sure to tell the waitstaff beforehand!) and write off your share of the £50.
posted by emilyw at 9:40 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by emilyw at 9:40 AM on July 17, 2009
Why not get the drinks separately and use the voucher against the drinks?
Also I echo the idea the veggies should club together themselves as there's always a huge discrepancy between steaks and vegetarian dishes.
posted by stenoboy at 9:46 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also I echo the idea the veggies should club together themselves as there's always a huge discrepancy between steaks and vegetarian dishes.
posted by stenoboy at 9:46 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm confused. If you know all of this in advance, why don't the vegetarians simply bring cash? Pay for your meals in cash. I find it highly unlikely that the carnivores are going to complain if you pay for your meals in cash and leave them to sort out the rest.
posted by jdroth at 9:52 AM on July 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by jdroth at 9:52 AM on July 17, 2009 [3 favorites]
Pre-fund the bill with cash - £25/ea for steak, £8/ea for veggies. Then split the over/under equally.
posted by mullacc at 9:53 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by mullacc at 9:53 AM on July 17, 2009
Everyone gets the same amount from the voucher (50/# of diners) and they pays what they owe for what they ate. If it was like 20 bucks and 18 bucks, I'd say the hassle wasn't worth it. But 17$ (uh, pounds?) is a lot of money and not a cost those of you not eating more expensively should have to bear.
posted by GilloD at 9:56 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by GilloD at 9:56 AM on July 17, 2009
A critical point here, to my mind, is that the meal is with coworkers. The point, presumably, is to build some sort of "positive group feeling." Complaining about the check is kind of going to work against that. Is £17 is a big deal for you (remembering that, after drinks and dessert, it will be a smaller proportion of the final bill) -- if so, then asking for separate checks or not going makes some sense, since the monetary loss is greater than the social loss. If not, I would tend to just think of it as a social investment.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:57 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:57 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
From my experience, splitting checks can be tricky in the UK (if not altogether impossible) (ditto taking doggie bags to go). I've been told that both are "just not done." (YMMV - this could be just the opinions of the people I know)
Is everyone ordering starters? If not, do that to equalize your share.
A £50 voucher should cover the 3 of you, including drinks, so maybe it could be used to treat the veggies for this one time only. This suggestion would sound a lot more palatable coming from someone else, as it would be an act of generosity on their part, not stinginess on yours. Can you get one of the meat-eaters on your side?
posted by Eumachia L F at 9:59 AM on July 17, 2009
Is everyone ordering starters? If not, do that to equalize your share.
A £50 voucher should cover the 3 of you, including drinks, so maybe it could be used to treat the veggies for this one time only. This suggestion would sound a lot more palatable coming from someone else, as it would be an act of generosity on their part, not stinginess on yours. Can you get one of the meat-eaters on your side?
posted by Eumachia L F at 9:59 AM on July 17, 2009
I hate the out-ordering tactic when put in this situation. I don't what to feel obliged to over-indulged just to be "fair". I've been in that situation way too many times and usually just pointing out the vast difference in what people ordered and asking if it's okay to just pay your share goes over just fine. Some people at the table may think that you're being nit-picky and needlessly stingy but they're being rude so don't feel like you have to do it their way. Separate checks for the veggies and the carnies is the way to go. And yeah, let 'em have the voucher.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 10:01 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by otherwordlyglow at 10:01 AM on July 17, 2009
The veggies with their cheap entrees should count for 0.5 person, not 1.0 person. Just split the bill that way. If anyone gives you shit, suggest splitting the bill by stoneweight. Then leer.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:05 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:05 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Are you close enough with any of the steak-orderers to ask them if they'd mind sticking up for you guys? I've done this before for people in group situations when they're on a really tight budget -- when it comes time to get the check and someone announces the even split, I just say, "Wait, that's not fair to so-and-so, she only ordered an appetizer!" or whatever. it's much more comfortable when it's someone else pointing out the discrepancy.
posted by amarynth at 10:09 AM on July 17, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by amarynth at 10:09 AM on July 17, 2009 [7 favorites]
Pay for your meals in cash.
Lots of places will not (or don't want to) generate multiple bills for a single table. The problem then is that you get one bill and people are incapable to putting in the correct amount of cash to cover their food.
This happened to me often. Particularly since tapas places are popular with my friends, where it was common practice to just get plates of everything and pass them around. That sucks for the people not eating the pricey sea food, meat and drinks who get a comparatively impoverished meal.
My group is relatively mature and capable of accurately splitting a tab. I think a major motivator for this was one or two people who would consistently get the most expensive thing, drinks, and dessert at somebody's birthday where they knew splitting was likely. When I don't think that's going to be the case, I often just eat ahead of time (I normally want to eat earlier than they do anyway), and get a drink or two at the bar to drink while I enjoy their company at the table.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 10:11 AM on July 17, 2009
Lots of places will not (or don't want to) generate multiple bills for a single table. The problem then is that you get one bill and people are incapable to putting in the correct amount of cash to cover their food.
This happened to me often. Particularly since tapas places are popular with my friends, where it was common practice to just get plates of everything and pass them around. That sucks for the people not eating the pricey sea food, meat and drinks who get a comparatively impoverished meal.
My group is relatively mature and capable of accurately splitting a tab. I think a major motivator for this was one or two people who would consistently get the most expensive thing, drinks, and dessert at somebody's birthday where they knew splitting was likely. When I don't think that's going to be the case, I often just eat ahead of time (I normally want to eat earlier than they do anyway), and get a drink or two at the bar to drink while I enjoy their company at the table.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 10:11 AM on July 17, 2009
Stay home and order cheese pizza.
Seriously. If there's no decent way to avoid conflict, don't participate. The voucher is for £50, which, fairly, is £3 per person. The three veggies sit at a separate table, order a single ticket, divide it amongst yourselves, and expect the meat-eating table to contribute the requisite £9 toward your bill of £24. Your meal costs £5.
If there is any situation in which you walk out of that restaurant having put down more than £5, you've been screwed. If past experience leads you to believe that you will be screwed, then check out.
Just do a calculation of opportunity cost. Is the experience and whatever social standing you receive by attending--and that alone, not the food--worth £17? If not, then screw it. £17 buys a lot of lettuce.
I'm an utter skinflint when it comes to money, but refusing to allow other people to spend your money is the only way to be sure you'll have some after they've blown theirs.
posted by jefficator at 10:13 AM on July 17, 2009
Seriously. If there's no decent way to avoid conflict, don't participate. The voucher is for £50, which, fairly, is £3 per person. The three veggies sit at a separate table, order a single ticket, divide it amongst yourselves, and expect the meat-eating table to contribute the requisite £9 toward your bill of £24. Your meal costs £5.
If there is any situation in which you walk out of that restaurant having put down more than £5, you've been screwed. If past experience leads you to believe that you will be screwed, then check out.
Just do a calculation of opportunity cost. Is the experience and whatever social standing you receive by attending--and that alone, not the food--worth £17? If not, then screw it. £17 buys a lot of lettuce.
I'm an utter skinflint when it comes to money, but refusing to allow other people to spend your money is the only way to be sure you'll have some after they've blown theirs.
posted by jefficator at 10:13 AM on July 17, 2009
If you say anything that would result in you paying less (even though you DID order food that cost less), however graciously, you'll look stingy. There's no way to avoid other people's judgments, unless one of the meateaters speaks up for you.
That being said, sometimes you just have to not care about what other people think of you. You look stingy if you ask for separate checks? Whatever. You know it's fair and it's right, and that's all that really matters, really.
posted by moiraine at 10:19 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
That being said, sometimes you just have to not care about what other people think of you. You look stingy if you ask for separate checks? Whatever. You know it's fair and it's right, and that's all that really matters, really.
posted by moiraine at 10:19 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Actingthegoat is exactly right- people are notoriously bad at estimating what their portion of the check is. I think the only position worse than holding the hot potato is being the person next to them who already put in enough to cover his bill plus a 50% tip, when they are looking with doe-eyes at the rest of the table for help. Subsidize the jerks, or be a jerk? It hurts.
Suggestions: ordering extra entrees and taking them home untouched is going to be seen as quite the social faux-pas. Maybe you are still getting less than you paid for, but it tells the other people at the table that that is what you have been thinking about the entire time...
To me, these things are in order of social acceptance, most acceptable to least:
1- suck it up and pay the even split. Shows that you aren't there to get an economical meal, you are there to enjoy the company of your associates. Do you financially lose out? Sure. But socially, you lose nothing. And you potentially gain if at some point someone notices that you have been happily contributing more than your fair share and acts as your advocate next time- "hey guys, hazyjane and that dude from accounting never order as much as we do. We should all kick in a little extra so we aren't taking advantage of them."
2- Propose a more fair split of the bill, but be very loose about it. "Wow, $1000 bucks for 15 people. Lets see, I had the $8 salad and three light beers. $40 ought to cover my part." You are asserting fairness, but you aren't being picky about it, and you are basically forcing the other people to take an untenable position if they disagree. If someone wants to complain, they would have to try to explain why they think you should pay $70 for $23 of food.
3- Propose settling up a few separate times during the evening. I'm envisioning this scenario- you are at the bar and have one normal drink. Meanwhile Scott and the sales guys are having 3 high priced Scotches a piece. When you get called to your table, try to settle that tab then. Then after the meal, then after the post-meal return to the bar. It will be easier to get a fair accounting of what you did and didn't consume. If that's not the scenario, ignore this.
4- Propose separate checks to the group when you sit down. You are being honest with them about your desire to not over pay. They know what is going to happen at the end of the meal. You can soften this (depending on how it might be received) by saying you aren't that hungry, or might leave early, or don't plan to drink very much. Again, you are stating your intentions fairly and honestly, and creating a situation where they would have to advocate for the group to treat you unfairly. In contrast to...
5- Pull the waiter aside and ask for a separate check without telling anyone else. Or in concert with a few other people. You are not ripping anyone off, you plan to pay your fair share, you are not financially in the wrong. But it is passive aggressive; it tells your dinner partners that you don't trust them to be fair people and that you had to appeal to a "higher authority" to "force" them to accept your wishes. Maybe I'm over sensitive to this kind of thing, but it really creeps me out when my friends aren't up front with me about things. Or when a few friends have banded together to make a decision that affects me without giving me the benefit of, you know, knowing about it. And frankly, the more petty the issue, the more it bothers me. "Really? You guys spent time worrying about how I'd react to separate checks? And came to the conclusion that I am so unreasonable a person that you couldn't even talk to me about it?? Wow. Now I know what you really think of me."
6- Or, order extra stuff to take home. Shows that you think so little of them that you didn't even have the guts to have someone else be the bad guy (the waiter with the surprise separate checks). Shows that you value getting your money's worth far more than you value or trust their friendship.
($ used because I can't figure out how to make the Pound sign. no offense intended.)
posted by gjc at 10:20 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Suggestions: ordering extra entrees and taking them home untouched is going to be seen as quite the social faux-pas. Maybe you are still getting less than you paid for, but it tells the other people at the table that that is what you have been thinking about the entire time...
To me, these things are in order of social acceptance, most acceptable to least:
1- suck it up and pay the even split. Shows that you aren't there to get an economical meal, you are there to enjoy the company of your associates. Do you financially lose out? Sure. But socially, you lose nothing. And you potentially gain if at some point someone notices that you have been happily contributing more than your fair share and acts as your advocate next time- "hey guys, hazyjane and that dude from accounting never order as much as we do. We should all kick in a little extra so we aren't taking advantage of them."
2- Propose a more fair split of the bill, but be very loose about it. "Wow, $1000 bucks for 15 people. Lets see, I had the $8 salad and three light beers. $40 ought to cover my part." You are asserting fairness, but you aren't being picky about it, and you are basically forcing the other people to take an untenable position if they disagree. If someone wants to complain, they would have to try to explain why they think you should pay $70 for $23 of food.
3- Propose settling up a few separate times during the evening. I'm envisioning this scenario- you are at the bar and have one normal drink. Meanwhile Scott and the sales guys are having 3 high priced Scotches a piece. When you get called to your table, try to settle that tab then. Then after the meal, then after the post-meal return to the bar. It will be easier to get a fair accounting of what you did and didn't consume. If that's not the scenario, ignore this.
4- Propose separate checks to the group when you sit down. You are being honest with them about your desire to not over pay. They know what is going to happen at the end of the meal. You can soften this (depending on how it might be received) by saying you aren't that hungry, or might leave early, or don't plan to drink very much. Again, you are stating your intentions fairly and honestly, and creating a situation where they would have to advocate for the group to treat you unfairly. In contrast to...
5- Pull the waiter aside and ask for a separate check without telling anyone else. Or in concert with a few other people. You are not ripping anyone off, you plan to pay your fair share, you are not financially in the wrong. But it is passive aggressive; it tells your dinner partners that you don't trust them to be fair people and that you had to appeal to a "higher authority" to "force" them to accept your wishes. Maybe I'm over sensitive to this kind of thing, but it really creeps me out when my friends aren't up front with me about things. Or when a few friends have banded together to make a decision that affects me without giving me the benefit of, you know, knowing about it. And frankly, the more petty the issue, the more it bothers me. "Really? You guys spent time worrying about how I'd react to separate checks? And came to the conclusion that I am so unreasonable a person that you couldn't even talk to me about it?? Wow. Now I know what you really think of me."
6- Or, order extra stuff to take home. Shows that you think so little of them that you didn't even have the guts to have someone else be the bad guy (the waiter with the surprise separate checks). Shows that you value getting your money's worth far more than you value or trust their friendship.
($ used because I can't figure out how to make the Pound sign. no offense intended.)
posted by gjc at 10:20 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well, My $0.02 or 1p
Vegetarians tend to draw enough negative attention without standing up in a social circumstance and saying my veggie meal was cheaper than your murdered cow meal, so fix it. People always asking why do you do that, don't you ever just want one little bite?
The point of the gathering is to foster a group feeling, not to be a good restaurant value. Look at it as a £324 catered group meal, price is fixed but you are allowed to specify vegetarian entrees for any participant that wishes one. If you look at it from the perspective of whose dish is less or more than another persons, it misses the point of the exercise and people should go home instead. Do you want all the carnivores to feel guilty because they selected a more expensive dish?
So, my advice is treat it like the meal has one big price and ignore the numbers on the menu altogether, or skip it and make yourself something at home instead. Trying to change things will spoil the group feel, and just bring attention to yourselves you would probably rather avoid.
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 10:26 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Vegetarians tend to draw enough negative attention without standing up in a social circumstance and saying my veggie meal was cheaper than your murdered cow meal, so fix it. People always asking why do you do that, don't you ever just want one little bite?
The point of the gathering is to foster a group feeling, not to be a good restaurant value. Look at it as a £324 catered group meal, price is fixed but you are allowed to specify vegetarian entrees for any participant that wishes one. If you look at it from the perspective of whose dish is less or more than another persons, it misses the point of the exercise and people should go home instead. Do you want all the carnivores to feel guilty because they selected a more expensive dish?
So, my advice is treat it like the meal has one big price and ignore the numbers on the menu altogether, or skip it and make yourself something at home instead. Trying to change things will spoil the group feel, and just bring attention to yourselves you would probably rather avoid.
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 10:26 AM on July 17, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh, I am about one reuben a month from being a vegetarian, and in no way disapprove of such a lifestyle.
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 10:28 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 10:28 AM on July 17, 2009
Do you want all the carnivores to feel guilty because they selected a more expensive dish?
Oh, that isn't the point.
If you're a vegetarian, you have absolutely no need to be apologetic or to concern yourself with others' negative opinion of vegetarians. Did you seriously just write that the carnivore's widdle feewings might be hurt or that they might feel threatened if vegetarians tried to assert themselves?
It is absolutely ridiculous to pay three times the price of your meal just so you don't potentially make the "carnivores feel guilty". You're a fool if you do that or if you encourage her to do that.
Speak up for yourself and get separate checks.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:37 AM on July 17, 2009 [10 favorites]
Oh, that isn't the point.
If you're a vegetarian, you have absolutely no need to be apologetic or to concern yourself with others' negative opinion of vegetarians. Did you seriously just write that the carnivore's widdle feewings might be hurt or that they might feel threatened if vegetarians tried to assert themselves?
It is absolutely ridiculous to pay three times the price of your meal just so you don't potentially make the "carnivores feel guilty". You're a fool if you do that or if you encourage her to do that.
Speak up for yourself and get separate checks.
posted by cmgonzalez at 10:37 AM on July 17, 2009 [10 favorites]
Yeah, this is not really a veggie vs carnivore problem - this happens often in other groups as well (for example when a lot of people drink a lot all the time and you have an iced tea). Once in a while, sure you're just out being social so consider it a cost of that. Frequent work-mandated dinners? Separate checks (ideally), or put in your share and state that you've put in a fair amount and don't waver.
posted by mikepop at 10:47 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by mikepop at 10:47 AM on July 17, 2009
I think splitting the bill evenly is the way to go -- when you've all pretty much had the same. Its just the polite and friendly thing to do when a bunch of you go out. But in the situation you describe, it just isn't necessary. With such a big difference between costs, you're absolutely right to want to split it more fairly. Like others have said, sort this out before the bill comes, that way there's no uncomfortable feeling. Send an email to them all and tell them that's the way its gonna happen. No biggie.
posted by Lleyam at 10:52 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by Lleyam at 10:52 AM on July 17, 2009
The vegetarianism is really a red herring (or, perhaps a red "mock-herring") in this case. I have been at many dinners where some diners purchased way more than others for a wide variety of reasons (light- or non-drinkers, no interest in desserts, various dietary restrictions, just not hungry, etc), and the same issue comes up. Making it "about vegetarianism" is likely to make being a vegetarian an issue when it really isn't. Unless of course, the coworkers are ordering steak just to take advantage of the situation, in which case, they are kind of jerky and staying home is probably the right plan.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:55 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:55 AM on July 17, 2009
Bring cash, put in what you paid and stick to it, and let the steak-eaters use the voucher.
I've been in situations like that (in Britain) and whatever you might think of the etiquette of not splitting evenly, I've found that it's preferable to having people knowingly chisel from you. There's no less social tension, especially if any of them are the kind of people who feel the need to make an issue of their meat-eating.
Look at it as a £324 catered group meal, price is fixed but you are allowed to specify vegetarian entrees for any participant that wishes one.
Or not. If three of the group ordered a bottle of Cheval Blanc between them, then it wouldn't be justified for the others to chip in to "foster group feeling". Of course, if the vegetarians want to order a bottle from the pricey end of the wine list to make up the difference, that might work.
posted by holgate at 10:56 AM on July 17, 2009
I've been in situations like that (in Britain) and whatever you might think of the etiquette of not splitting evenly, I've found that it's preferable to having people knowingly chisel from you. There's no less social tension, especially if any of them are the kind of people who feel the need to make an issue of their meat-eating.
Look at it as a £324 catered group meal, price is fixed but you are allowed to specify vegetarian entrees for any participant that wishes one.
Or not. If three of the group ordered a bottle of Cheval Blanc between them, then it wouldn't be justified for the others to chip in to "foster group feeling". Of course, if the vegetarians want to order a bottle from the pricey end of the wine list to make up the difference, that might work.
posted by holgate at 10:56 AM on July 17, 2009
I had this same issue with a monthly group of sushi-eaters. As a veg I love the yaki-onigiri, kappa maki and miso soup, but that's about it. I got real tired of paying $40 for $5 worth of rice and cucumbers each month.
I finally just bailed. There was no easy way to bring it up without looking like a complete ponce. Of course, everyone else was a clueless dolt for not even considering the issue all those times.
Hope you enjoyed that $80 sushi platter on my dime, jerks, 'cuz you're not getting another one.
posted by Aquaman at 11:03 AM on July 17, 2009
I finally just bailed. There was no easy way to bring it up without looking like a complete ponce. Of course, everyone else was a clueless dolt for not even considering the issue all those times.
Hope you enjoyed that $80 sushi platter on my dime, jerks, 'cuz you're not getting another one.
posted by Aquaman at 11:03 AM on July 17, 2009
Definitely mention it beforehand, and then again as you're settling up if people have forgotten. I like the idea of having one of the meat-eaters stand up for you, too. The vegetarian/meat-eater thing is definitely making this discussion more contentious than it might otherwise be, and it's worth considering that in your actions-- maybe if you frame it to your co-workers as "we are light eaters," rather than "we are vegetarians," it'll go over more easily.
Also, a quick currency conversion note for those USians who are advising the vegetarians to just eat the cost, £17 is about $27, which is a large amount of money to spend on someone else's meal, especially when your own only costs $13.
And to those of you who are mentioning the concern re: having put in your fair share plus lots of tip and then still having to add to the pot at the end, it's not usually those with the cheapest meals who screw you that way. I'm a vegetarian and a light eater, but I used to work in food service, and I'm often the one who ends up giving a 60% tip on my meal to ensure that the server gets 20%. Also, in this circumstance, won't gratuity be included? This seems like as much of a red herring as the vegetarianism thing.
posted by dizziest at 11:08 AM on July 17, 2009
Also, a quick currency conversion note for those USians who are advising the vegetarians to just eat the cost, £17 is about $27, which is a large amount of money to spend on someone else's meal, especially when your own only costs $13.
And to those of you who are mentioning the concern re: having put in your fair share plus lots of tip and then still having to add to the pot at the end, it's not usually those with the cheapest meals who screw you that way. I'm a vegetarian and a light eater, but I used to work in food service, and I'm often the one who ends up giving a 60% tip on my meal to ensure that the server gets 20%. Also, in this circumstance, won't gratuity be included? This seems like as much of a red herring as the vegetarianism thing.
posted by dizziest at 11:08 AM on July 17, 2009
Stand up to leave before the bill arrives. Pitch in what you consider a slightly more than sufficient amount, and say "this should cover me." Leave.
posted by adamrice at 11:16 AM on July 17, 2009
posted by adamrice at 11:16 AM on July 17, 2009
get separate checks (or separate veggie/meat eater group checks) and use the voucher for the tip. yeah, it's a generous tip, but you're going to get stuck one way or the other. might as well have the waitstaff make out on the deal.
posted by msconduct at 11:18 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by msconduct at 11:18 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
Did you seriously just write that the carnivore's widdle feewings might be hurt or that they might feel threatened if vegetarians tried to assert themselves?
No, I am saying that I don't identify as a vegetarian, nor will I ever because too many people use that label to beat their superiority over the heads of others*. Somewhat like what you just attempted to do.
Your co-workers don't care that you choose not to eat meat, they just about the financial and group aspects of the bill. Again, I'd say suck it up or don't go. If you do go, just be nice about it and if people don't want to change the way they do things, don't push the issue. No harm in asking, there is often harm in insisting. I'd probably just skip it.
*well that and I eat meat now and again, but I have been 98% vegetarian for over 10 years, averaging out to 9.8 years of meat free existence. Even if I ate no meat, I still wouldn't identify as a v.
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 11:22 AM on July 17, 2009
No, I am saying that I don't identify as a vegetarian, nor will I ever because too many people use that label to beat their superiority over the heads of others*. Somewhat like what you just attempted to do.
Your co-workers don't care that you choose not to eat meat, they just about the financial and group aspects of the bill. Again, I'd say suck it up or don't go. If you do go, just be nice about it and if people don't want to change the way they do things, don't push the issue. No harm in asking, there is often harm in insisting. I'd probably just skip it.
*well that and I eat meat now and again, but I have been 98% vegetarian for over 10 years, averaging out to 9.8 years of meat free existence. Even if I ate no meat, I still wouldn't identify as a v.
posted by Antidisestablishmentarianist at 11:22 AM on July 17, 2009
Yeah, I have to say that's a big enough difference in price (the issue of veggie or not is a non-issue -- what if half the table ordered inexpensive chicken entrees and the rest expensive steak?) that you're justified in not subsidizing your dinner partners and bringing it up politely. Seriously, if just entrees are split evenly, the amount you're paying for your "share" is almost three times as much as your entree cost! That's insanely unfair (esp when we're talking $40 steaks) and one of the steak-eaters should be willing to note you shouldn't be on the hook for their expensive meals. And as long as you bring it up politely, anyone objects is a jerk. The current method means they are paying half price for their steaks (by my calculations).
And I say this as someone who frequently buys people drinks, throws in a bit extra, etc. but I would be totally annoyed in this context because I would feel I was actually being taken advantage of rather than choosing to be generous or congenial.
posted by R343L at 11:31 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
And I say this as someone who frequently buys people drinks, throws in a bit extra, etc. but I would be totally annoyed in this context because I would feel I was actually being taken advantage of rather than choosing to be generous or congenial.
posted by R343L at 11:31 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
This drives me crazy to the point where I think of excuses not to go out to eat with coworkers. A group goes out at lunch and I'm not usually hungry at lunch, so I order something small. Then, when they bill comes, they want to split it equally. I don't want to come off as "stingy," so a lot of the time I just don't go. I remember once I ordered something off the appetizer menu for $7. At the end, they wanted everyone to chip in equally, which would have turned out costing me $20. Finally, I just said, "Mine was only $7" and procuded to put $12 on the table (more than fair). Only then did one of the people who ate lots of food offer to pay more. The principle of the thing made me angry. I felt like my coworkers were puposely trying to take advantage of the people who didn't order much food.
It seems incredibly rude on the part of people who stuff their faces to ask everyone to split the bill equally.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:12 PM on July 17, 2009
It seems incredibly rude on the part of people who stuff their faces to ask everyone to split the bill equally.
posted by parakeetdog at 12:12 PM on July 17, 2009
I have never dined with a group of folks who insisted on just splitting the bill regardless of individual cost. The idea is totally foreign to me. We accept responsibility for our own drinks and meals and share the costs of any shared desserts.
I first thought that I'd do what adamrice is suggesting -- except, I'd probably start off the dinner with the announcement that I had to leave early and request a separate check. Doing so would mean that I would write off any share of the voucher, though.
posted by parilous at 12:57 PM on July 17, 2009
I first thought that I'd do what adamrice is suggesting -- except, I'd probably start off the dinner with the announcement that I had to leave early and request a separate check. Doing so would mean that I would write off any share of the voucher, though.
posted by parilous at 12:57 PM on July 17, 2009
I <3 Mystery Men.
The Blue Raja: All I'm saying is, when we split the cheque three ways the steak eater picks the pocket of the salad man.
Shoveler: Just give me the money, Jeff.
Raja: Yes, fine.
Shoveler: Every time we eat, we split it three ways.
Raja: Fine, It's flipping robbery.
Shoveler: Well, you should order more.
posted by mincus at 12:57 PM on July 17, 2009
The Blue Raja: All I'm saying is, when we split the cheque three ways the steak eater picks the pocket of the salad man.
Shoveler: Just give me the money, Jeff.
Raja: Yes, fine.
Shoveler: Every time we eat, we split it three ways.
Raja: Fine, It's flipping robbery.
Shoveler: Well, you should order more.
posted by mincus at 12:57 PM on July 17, 2009
I'm still puzzled as to why cash won't work. And a robot made out of meat's post seems to just miss the point. I'm not proposing that the check be split. I'm well-aware that multiple checks can be problematic. I'm saying: let the vegetarians bring cash, contribute it to the pot, and then let the carnivores sort things out. One of the carnivores goes home with a bit of cash. Pay in one-pound (don't know how to make the symbol on my keyboard) notes or whatever. Bring cash, chuck it the middle when you're done, let the big spenders deal with it.
posted by jdroth at 2:45 PM on July 17, 2009
posted by jdroth at 2:45 PM on July 17, 2009
This happens to me a lot, but because I'm a freelance artist, not vegetarian. I'm often broke / waiting on checks from clients, so when I go out to be social I order something small and a coke, while my friends get a full meal and drinks. I usually just say "I just had _____, here's my share" and throw in cash to cover what I had + tip and let them figure out the rest. No one has ever had a problem with this, and no one has ever expected me to chip in for someone else's meal or beers if I was just there to hang out.
posted by bradbane at 5:04 PM on July 17, 2009
posted by bradbane at 5:04 PM on July 17, 2009
Response by poster: I went, had a great time, and ended up paying £40 into a kitty for:
- a meal that should have cost about £9 total when most people's meals were around £30
- about 10 drinks including wine and mixed drinks (I stayed out for 7 hours and was the last one to go home)
...so I think the people who said order extra drinks were right, and the lesson I learned is that I CAN outdrink them as long as I can outlast them at the bar!
I really think this is a cultural difference between the US and the UK. I'm from the US but all my colleagues are British. It's just really, really not among this group to make any fuss about splitting the bill, it's more of a communal thing. The other two vegetarians confirmed this in the end - although they weren't really happy there was nothing else socially acceptable we could do - except drink loads, which is very socially acceptable, luckily. Head hurts today though, oh well, can't have everything.
posted by hazyjane at 2:36 AM on July 18, 2009
- a meal that should have cost about £9 total when most people's meals were around £30
- about 10 drinks including wine and mixed drinks (I stayed out for 7 hours and was the last one to go home)
...so I think the people who said order extra drinks were right, and the lesson I learned is that I CAN outdrink them as long as I can outlast them at the bar!
I really think this is a cultural difference between the US and the UK. I'm from the US but all my colleagues are British. It's just really, really not among this group to make any fuss about splitting the bill, it's more of a communal thing. The other two vegetarians confirmed this in the end - although they weren't really happy there was nothing else socially acceptable we could do - except drink loads, which is very socially acceptable, luckily. Head hurts today though, oh well, can't have everything.
posted by hazyjane at 2:36 AM on July 18, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jordanlewis at 9:28 AM on July 17, 2009