Where does my spirituality lie?
July 6, 2009 7:33 PM Subscribe
I don't follow a religion, and my spiritual life feels so empty without one that it bothers me enough to disrupt daily life.
I believe in nature spirits, and I have a strong spiritual connection with nature. However, I also feel a connection to Christianity that I can't quite identify.
I believe in spirits such as tree, wind, and rain spirits. Not rock, technology, plastic, or any spirits of that sort. I've tried looking into paganism, but I need dogma for a religion to resonate with me.
I find myself spiritually drawn to Christianity, but I'm not sure I believe in God and if I do, I'm not sure I like him. I was raised Christian, and was turned off to it because I never understood why God didn't make everyone happy and also able to appreciate what they had. That, and the vengeful stories.
Despite that feeling, I find myself wanting to rediscover Christianity on a day to basis, and it's usually because I'll come across a Christian whose values resonate with mine.
Does "Christian" and "believes in nature spirits" go together at all? Is there another religion I might be overlooking here?
I believe in spirits such as tree, wind, and rain spirits. Not rock, technology, plastic, or any spirits of that sort. I've tried looking into paganism, but I need dogma for a religion to resonate with me.
I find myself spiritually drawn to Christianity, but I'm not sure I believe in God and if I do, I'm not sure I like him. I was raised Christian, and was turned off to it because I never understood why God didn't make everyone happy and also able to appreciate what they had. That, and the vengeful stories.
Despite that feeling, I find myself wanting to rediscover Christianity on a day to basis, and it's usually because I'll come across a Christian whose values resonate with mine.
Does "Christian" and "believes in nature spirits" go together at all? Is there another religion I might be overlooking here?
Have you looked into the Baha'i faith? If I weren't a cultural Christian (that's the narrative that has worked for me), I'd probably be Baha'i.
posted by availablelight at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by availablelight at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2009
You really should investigate the Unitarian Universalists. They believe in folks finding their own way spiritually, and they have resources that can help you build your own spiritual life.
posted by bigmusic at 7:39 PM on July 6, 2009 [7 favorites]
posted by bigmusic at 7:39 PM on July 6, 2009 [7 favorites]
You could be a pagan Quaker. Quakerism (liberal Quakerism anyway) is very comfortable with seekers, with uncertainty, with non-theism, with Christians, and with exploration of various traditions. Here is a blog by a pagan Quaker.
It's not very dogmatic, overall, but a good religion for exploring the questions that are meaningful to you in community.
posted by not that girl at 7:41 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
It's not very dogmatic, overall, but a good religion for exploring the questions that are meaningful to you in community.
posted by not that girl at 7:41 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think that following a religion, even one that you don't believe heart and soul, can be a good thing even though I don't do so myself. Since I assume you live in America and we have churches everywhere, find a church group somewhere that you think you could fit into. Try more than one if a group doesn't work out. If Christianity doesn't suit you look for other kinds of religious organizations (I hear paganism is gaining popularity). Good luck.
posted by America at 7:45 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by America at 7:45 PM on July 6, 2009
have you ever read the Tao Te Ching, or the Chuang Tzu?
that's pretty much my answer to everything.
posted by Philby at 7:49 PM on July 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
that's pretty much my answer to everything.
posted by Philby at 7:49 PM on July 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think what you're after is pantheism in one form or another. My personal favorite exponent of pantheism is Spinoza (read Ethics), but that won't provide any dogma or ritual.
You may be interested in gnosticism, which is not terribly popular today but has as authentic a history as any Christian sect. I'd start with the gospel of Thomas. I hear rastafarianism, which is at nominally Christian, places high importance on nature and has some pantheistic strains as well.
Some quaker's are pantheist. Some quaker's are pretty much anything you can imagine.
Unitarian universalism is probably also worth checking out, and I'm sure some UU-ers will be along shortly to tell you more about it than I could.
The more religious traditions of Buddhism, Tibetan/Pure Land in particular, have lots of dogma even this firebrand anti-dogmatist thinks are pretty cool. They're big on nature - mahayana buddhists vow to save all sentient beings, and the world as vastly interconnected, man as part of the flux of nature.
I think you really need to take a long hard look at what belief is, but that's probably because I disagree with you're implicit views. I think your stance has negative implications, and would be willing to talk to you about it if MeMail me, but I know that's not what your question is about - I just feel weird turning someone on to belief systems I see as deluded.
posted by phrontist at 7:53 PM on July 6, 2009
You may be interested in gnosticism, which is not terribly popular today but has as authentic a history as any Christian sect. I'd start with the gospel of Thomas. I hear rastafarianism, which is at nominally Christian, places high importance on nature and has some pantheistic strains as well.
Some quaker's are pantheist. Some quaker's are pretty much anything you can imagine.
Unitarian universalism is probably also worth checking out, and I'm sure some UU-ers will be along shortly to tell you more about it than I could.
The more religious traditions of Buddhism, Tibetan/Pure Land in particular, have lots of dogma even this firebrand anti-dogmatist thinks are pretty cool. They're big on nature - mahayana buddhists vow to save all sentient beings, and the world as vastly interconnected, man as part of the flux of nature.
I think you really need to take a long hard look at what belief is, but that's probably because I disagree with you're implicit views. I think your stance has negative implications, and would be willing to talk to you about it if MeMail me, but I know that's not what your question is about - I just feel weird turning someone on to belief systems I see as deluded.
posted by phrontist at 7:53 PM on July 6, 2009
I am an animist too. The closest thing I've found to a sympathetic religion is Asatru. But I would try Googling "animism."
posted by bricoleur at 7:55 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by bricoleur at 7:55 PM on July 6, 2009
anonymous: I don't follow a religion, and my spiritual life feels so empty without one that it bothers me enough to disrupt daily life. I find myself spiritually drawn to Christianity, but I'm not sure I believe in God and if I do, I'm not sure I like him. Does "Christian" and "believes in nature spirits" go together at all? Is there another religion I might be overlooking here?
I believe the Unitarian Universalists may be paging you in aisle three. Acceptance of agnosticism, openness to individual spiritual beliefs and practices, and a pretty decent social justice pedigree seem like a good fit for you.
You may need to check out a few congregations depending on your location to find one that is a good match, but there are worse ways to spend your Sundays than hanging out at various UU services.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:57 PM on July 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
I believe the Unitarian Universalists may be paging you in aisle three. Acceptance of agnosticism, openness to individual spiritual beliefs and practices, and a pretty decent social justice pedigree seem like a good fit for you.
You may need to check out a few congregations depending on your location to find one that is a good match, but there are worse ways to spend your Sundays than hanging out at various UU services.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:57 PM on July 6, 2009 [4 favorites]
A couple years ago I found (maybe linked to on here?) this great survey that was like a hundred or two questions basically saying "what do you believe" given certain circumstances. At the end it gave you % matches to a very very wide assortment of faiths. I mean, a wide assortment. Not just like "catholic, protestant, judaism, islam", I mean like "Greek Orthodox blah blah blah sept".
I only mention it here because maybe someone has that link. I recommend it as a learning experience if nothing else.
posted by TomMelee at 8:14 PM on July 6, 2009
I only mention it here because maybe someone has that link. I recommend it as a learning experience if nothing else.
posted by TomMelee at 8:14 PM on July 6, 2009
It's been a long time since I've taken it (it was before there were lots and lots of ads), but I found the Belief-O-Matic quiz to be helpful (in spite of its cutesy name) in sorting out the faiths that most closely matched my beliefs.
posted by macguffin at 8:14 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by macguffin at 8:14 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
My spiritualism is so uncategorizeable that I just gave up trying to pick one. If I had to fit myself into a box under penalty of death, I'd go with Unitarian Universalists, but really I just think that God has given us all of these different ways of relating to Him because He wants as many people to get what he was saying as possible, and that whatever different way any person says of stating what it is that God's all about, God just sort of listens, chuckles, and says, "'kay, whatever works for you, I'm down with that."
This is actually rather freeing, though. Read up on as many different elements of religions as you can or feel like, and if something clicks with you, great. If not, at the very least, that's something to think about. Pay no mind to whether it all "fits" together or whether it's all from the same or similar faiths -- my current spiritual life includes elements of Catholicism, pre-Christian Celtic beliefs, pre-Christian AFRICAN beliefs, Tao, Sufiism, Hindu beliefs, a bit of Judaism, a bit of Hindu practices, and some holdovers from when I was dabbling in neo-Paganism some years ago.
Which all sounds like an unholy mess (pun not intended). But what lets me square all of this is something a friend who is still Wiccan told me -- a lot of the religious symbolism is really just ways to try to find and communicate with your subconscious. And your subconscious is very, very unique. So whatever works and clicks with your subconscious is whatever works. I've also found that while I dislike organized worship -- my own worship is WAY too personal -- I actually like the fellowship of TALKING about religion with other people; having comparative religion conversations is fodder for my own reflection later. (A friend of mine is a Jesuit-seminary-trained hardline Catholic, who can argue Christian theology better than anyone I've ever met, and we have often had theological debates that puzzle the hey out of everyone else.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:17 PM on July 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
This is actually rather freeing, though. Read up on as many different elements of religions as you can or feel like, and if something clicks with you, great. If not, at the very least, that's something to think about. Pay no mind to whether it all "fits" together or whether it's all from the same or similar faiths -- my current spiritual life includes elements of Catholicism, pre-Christian Celtic beliefs, pre-Christian AFRICAN beliefs, Tao, Sufiism, Hindu beliefs, a bit of Judaism, a bit of Hindu practices, and some holdovers from when I was dabbling in neo-Paganism some years ago.
Which all sounds like an unholy mess (pun not intended). But what lets me square all of this is something a friend who is still Wiccan told me -- a lot of the religious symbolism is really just ways to try to find and communicate with your subconscious. And your subconscious is very, very unique. So whatever works and clicks with your subconscious is whatever works. I've also found that while I dislike organized worship -- my own worship is WAY too personal -- I actually like the fellowship of TALKING about religion with other people; having comparative religion conversations is fodder for my own reflection later. (A friend of mine is a Jesuit-seminary-trained hardline Catholic, who can argue Christian theology better than anyone I've ever met, and we have often had theological debates that puzzle the hey out of everyone else.)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:17 PM on July 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
D'oh, hit post too soon...
The moral of my long screed is: finding your own path to God may take you to a group of fellows, or it may take you to completely uncharted territory. As long as your path actually IS leading you to God, however you conceive of God to be, as far as I understand it, then it's all good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:20 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
The moral of my long screed is: finding your own path to God may take you to a group of fellows, or it may take you to completely uncharted territory. As long as your path actually IS leading you to God, however you conceive of God to be, as far as I understand it, then it's all good.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:20 PM on July 6, 2009 [1 favorite]
The liberal end of many denominations will include plenty of people whose beliefs encompass what you're describing (and much more). I've met people who primarily worship within the context of Presbyterianism, Episcopalianism, and the UCC (and obviously UU) who consider themselves equally or to some extent Taoist, Pagan, Buddhist, some form of deist, or something else entirely that they've worked out for themselves. A number of these are in my extended family, and many of those are seminarians and ordained.
My automatic recommendation to people who are interested in alternate, spiritual forms of Christian worship is the Taizé style of chant, prayer, and silence, which manages to be both quietly contemplative and more communal than many mainstream traditional or contemporary services. This is the service I attend most regularly at my own (liberal Presbyterian) church, and the meditative focus allows it to function as a natural support to many other forms of religious or philosophical study. Don't worry, it's labyrinth-optional.
posted by notquitemaryann at 8:28 PM on July 6, 2009
My automatic recommendation to people who are interested in alternate, spiritual forms of Christian worship is the Taizé style of chant, prayer, and silence, which manages to be both quietly contemplative and more communal than many mainstream traditional or contemporary services. This is the service I attend most regularly at my own (liberal Presbyterian) church, and the meditative focus allows it to function as a natural support to many other forms of religious or philosophical study. Don't worry, it's labyrinth-optional.
posted by notquitemaryann at 8:28 PM on July 6, 2009
Sounds like you should go to a Unitarian church. I'm sure there are people there who have similar beliefs to yours.
posted by twblalock at 8:39 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by twblalock at 8:39 PM on July 6, 2009
I wish I could be of more help than this, however, when I read your question, I immediately thought of Pilgrim at Tinker Creek by Annie Dillard. She could have written your question. Might be a book worth browsing for you.
From the Wikipedia bio on Dillard: During her rebellious teenage years, she quit church because of the "hypocrisy." When she told her minister, he gave her a stack of books by C. S. Lewis, which ended this rebellion. After her college years, Dillard became, as she says, "spiritually promiscuous," incorporating the ideas of many religious systems into her own religious understanding. Not only are there references to Christ and the Bible in her first prose book, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, but also to Judaism, Buddhism, Sufism, and even Eskimo spirituality.
You might also find the works of C.S. Lewis interesting, or Parker Palmer. I don't think that belief in nature spirits and Christianity need to be mutually exclusive, but also think that the Christian Right would brand me as a heretic. :) However, my Christian Left brethren haven't kicked me out yet.
posted by jeanmari at 9:00 PM on July 6, 2009
From the Wikipedia bio on Dillard: During her rebellious teenage years, she quit church because of the "hypocrisy." When she told her minister, he gave her a stack of books by C. S. Lewis, which ended this rebellion. After her college years, Dillard became, as she says, "spiritually promiscuous," incorporating the ideas of many religious systems into her own religious understanding. Not only are there references to Christ and the Bible in her first prose book, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek, but also to Judaism, Buddhism, Sufism, and even Eskimo spirituality.
You might also find the works of C.S. Lewis interesting, or Parker Palmer. I don't think that belief in nature spirits and Christianity need to be mutually exclusive, but also think that the Christian Right would brand me as a heretic. :) However, my Christian Left brethren haven't kicked me out yet.
posted by jeanmari at 9:00 PM on July 6, 2009
There are certainly some people who consider themselves Christo-pagan, and combine some elements of Christianity and Paganism. You might look into that. Celtic Christianity is also something you might find very appealing.
Mostly what I wanted to say though was that I would highly recommend the writings of Matthew Fox.
posted by overglow at 9:12 PM on July 6, 2009
Mostly what I wanted to say though was that I would highly recommend the writings of Matthew Fox.
posted by overglow at 9:12 PM on July 6, 2009
I Second Buddhism... there are so many flavors I am sure that you will find one that fits you.
To narrow it down some from your criteria... look at any form of Mahayana Buddhism (Bodhisattva ideal is to achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings, animals included).
More specifically anything flowing from the Chinese Chan Buddhism (including especially Zen) includes ideas from Taoism, which is very nature focused.
And you may be interested in Bon. It is a native religion of Tibet that predates the Buddhist influence but has merged with Buddhism in the modern era. Even still these excerpts from wikipedia may peak your interest:
"[Bon] existed within a web of ancient indigenous animism, Hinduism, sympathetic magic, Buddhism, folk religion, shamanism, Vajrayana, asceticism and mysticism"
And more on Bon: ""[C]omplexes include mosaics of performing practices and discourses rather than discrete or fixed sets of practices or beliefs. They are syncretic and overlapping. The power of sound to communicate with spirits is recognized…" and a recurrent motif throughout the region."
I don't know as much about Pure Land Buddhism. As a form of Mahayana I assume that it is sympathetic to the plight of animals and other sentient beings. I do know that Pure Land in the west has basically appropriated many forms of christian worship so for some churches it may be an easy switch from Christianity.
And these are all basically Mahayana Buddhism, there are many other branches of older Indian and Tantric practices which are amazing and beautiful in their own right. Find what works for you.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 9:33 PM on July 6, 2009
To narrow it down some from your criteria... look at any form of Mahayana Buddhism (Bodhisattva ideal is to achieve enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings, animals included).
More specifically anything flowing from the Chinese Chan Buddhism (including especially Zen) includes ideas from Taoism, which is very nature focused.
And you may be interested in Bon. It is a native religion of Tibet that predates the Buddhist influence but has merged with Buddhism in the modern era. Even still these excerpts from wikipedia may peak your interest:
"[Bon] existed within a web of ancient indigenous animism, Hinduism, sympathetic magic, Buddhism, folk religion, shamanism, Vajrayana, asceticism and mysticism"
And more on Bon: ""[C]omplexes include mosaics of performing practices and discourses rather than discrete or fixed sets of practices or beliefs. They are syncretic and overlapping. The power of sound to communicate with spirits is recognized…" and a recurrent motif throughout the region."
I don't know as much about Pure Land Buddhism. As a form of Mahayana I assume that it is sympathetic to the plight of animals and other sentient beings. I do know that Pure Land in the west has basically appropriated many forms of christian worship so for some churches it may be an easy switch from Christianity.
And these are all basically Mahayana Buddhism, there are many other branches of older Indian and Tantric practices which are amazing and beautiful in their own right. Find what works for you.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 9:33 PM on July 6, 2009
If you're interested in paganism, but want dogma, Gardnerian Wiccans have a whack of dogma.
"How many Gardnerians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"
"Shhhh... that's a secret."
posted by musofire at 9:35 PM on July 6, 2009
"How many Gardnerians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?"
"Shhhh... that's a secret."
posted by musofire at 9:35 PM on July 6, 2009
"why God didn't make everyone happy and also able to appreciate what they had."
Not to get off on philosophical tangent, but "God" didn't make everyone happy because he couldn't. The nature of reality is such that it is always incomplete, impermanent and unsatisfying. "Gods" (if gods exist) are stuck in that framework just like us.
But being able to appreciate life, that's the key, and that's the job of each of us. Find whatever helps you do that best.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 9:41 PM on July 6, 2009
Not to get off on philosophical tangent, but "God" didn't make everyone happy because he couldn't. The nature of reality is such that it is always incomplete, impermanent and unsatisfying. "Gods" (if gods exist) are stuck in that framework just like us.
But being able to appreciate life, that's the key, and that's the job of each of us. Find whatever helps you do that best.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 9:41 PM on July 6, 2009
If you're wanting to take another look at Christianity, I second the recommendation to read C.S. Lewis, particularly Mere Christianity. I found Lewis' approach to a discussion of Christianity unique and refreshing. As a side note, I am someone who found myself disgusted with the "religious right," and I still think that the brand of Christianity that is currently mainstream in America has a massive "holier than thou" pride issue (Lewis discusses pride to a great extent in his book).
Shoot me some MeFi Mail if you want more reading along the same lines.
posted by sciencemandan at 9:42 PM on July 6, 2009
Shoot me some MeFi Mail if you want more reading along the same lines.
posted by sciencemandan at 9:42 PM on July 6, 2009
Are you sure it's really "Christianity" you are drawn to? Or, is it the community a church provides that entices you?
Do you realize how much Christianity in the U.S. works against so much of what you believe? I'm still completely baffled by the fact that Christians aren't hard-core environmentalists. Their god put them on this Earth and they're not working tirelessly to preserve it? Yikes!
If it's community you are drawn to, I highly recommend you seek out something like a unitarian church.
posted by 2oh1 at 10:14 PM on July 6, 2009
Do you realize how much Christianity in the U.S. works against so much of what you believe? I'm still completely baffled by the fact that Christians aren't hard-core environmentalists. Their god put them on this Earth and they're not working tirelessly to preserve it? Yikes!
If it's community you are drawn to, I highly recommend you seek out something like a unitarian church.
posted by 2oh1 at 10:14 PM on July 6, 2009
Nthing Unitarian Universalism. I was raised UU and they basically believe that all spiritual practices contain worthwhile practices and beliefs. The Church's links to Christianity (UUs often consider themselves to be Protestants, though that's a sort of thorny subject) will probably resonate with you. There's very, very little dogma, but there is guidance.
One thing to note: there's a lot of variation between UU congregations. Some are freewheeling hippie places with pagan subcommittees. The one I went to was in a 200-year-old white-steepled church in the suburbs of Boston, and was pretty tepid, to be honest. It pretty much could have been any liberal Protestant New England church.
That is, except for the sex ed.
posted by lunasol at 10:18 PM on July 6, 2009
One thing to note: there's a lot of variation between UU congregations. Some are freewheeling hippie places with pagan subcommittees. The one I went to was in a 200-year-old white-steepled church in the suburbs of Boston, and was pretty tepid, to be honest. It pretty much could have been any liberal Protestant New England church.
That is, except for the sex ed.
posted by lunasol at 10:18 PM on July 6, 2009
However, I also feel a connection to Christianity that I can't quite identify... I was raised Christian
Well, mystery solved. If you were raised by shepherds, you'd probably have a deeply-ingrained love of wool, and a fear of wolves.
The things we're exposed to earliest leave indelible marks. The language you learn first is always your 'native' language, even if you never use it again after leaving home.
Your brain is probably storing all your childhood memories alongside the childhood Christian memories. If your upbringing was pleasant, it's reasonable you have a soft spot for Christianity, too.
I'm agnostic, but I still like churches. They smell safe.
posted by rokusan at 11:10 PM on July 6, 2009
Well, mystery solved. If you were raised by shepherds, you'd probably have a deeply-ingrained love of wool, and a fear of wolves.
The things we're exposed to earliest leave indelible marks. The language you learn first is always your 'native' language, even if you never use it again after leaving home.
Your brain is probably storing all your childhood memories alongside the childhood Christian memories. If your upbringing was pleasant, it's reasonable you have a soft spot for Christianity, too.
I'm agnostic, but I still like churches. They smell safe.
posted by rokusan at 11:10 PM on July 6, 2009
You don't really need to get a package-deal and run with it. Study up on anything that interests you, check what you believe and what you don't believe.
If you are interested in christianity, for example, why not start with reading the bible?
Keep it simple. Just learn up, and be curious.
posted by Ingenting at 12:22 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you are interested in christianity, for example, why not start with reading the bible?
Keep it simple. Just learn up, and be curious.
posted by Ingenting at 12:22 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would first of all n'th CS Lewis and Mere Christianity in particular.
I consider myself a Christian but I also have a rabid humanitarian streak and a similar concern for the environment. Even a cursory study of the Bible will show you that we live, like it or not, in a spiritual world. Most of us just never stop to think about it that much. Consider:
Isaiah 14:9
The grave below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you...
Zechariah 6:5
The angel answered me, "These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world...
Matthew 10:1
He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
Acts 23:8
(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
1 Corinthians 12:10
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
I do think its worth noting, however, from the Christian perspective, that if you do a word study on "Spirits," particularly in the New Testament, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the time the term is being used in the context of "evil spirits." And the Bible contains numerous warnings against dabbling in witchcraft, sorcery, etc. - playing around with said spirits as if they were less serious things than I personally think they really are. The letter to the Corinthians warns us accordingly: "In regard to evil be infants..."
So, in my particular approach to my Christian faith - I acknowledge the presence of spirits but I wouldn't say I feel like I interact with them very much. Personally I've always liked how Thomas a Kempis put it: "What is required of you is faith and a sincere life, not loftiness of intellect or deep knowledge of the mysteries of God."
posted by allkindsoftime at 1:59 AM on July 7, 2009
I consider myself a Christian but I also have a rabid humanitarian streak and a similar concern for the environment. Even a cursory study of the Bible will show you that we live, like it or not, in a spiritual world. Most of us just never stop to think about it that much. Consider:
Isaiah 14:9
The grave below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you...
Zechariah 6:5
The angel answered me, "These are the four spirits of heaven, going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world...
Matthew 10:1
He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
Acts 23:8
(The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.)
1 Corinthians 2:4
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power,
1 Corinthians 12:10
to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
I do think its worth noting, however, from the Christian perspective, that if you do a word study on "Spirits," particularly in the New Testament, you'll find that the overwhelming majority of the time the term is being used in the context of "evil spirits." And the Bible contains numerous warnings against dabbling in witchcraft, sorcery, etc. - playing around with said spirits as if they were less serious things than I personally think they really are. The letter to the Corinthians warns us accordingly: "In regard to evil be infants..."
So, in my particular approach to my Christian faith - I acknowledge the presence of spirits but I wouldn't say I feel like I interact with them very much. Personally I've always liked how Thomas a Kempis put it: "What is required of you is faith and a sincere life, not loftiness of intellect or deep knowledge of the mysteries of God."
posted by allkindsoftime at 1:59 AM on July 7, 2009
Well, UUism may jibe with your beliefs, but it sure doesn't offer much dogma. We have 7 principles, but no dog, ma.
If you move to Asheville, there's Jubilee! It's a nondenominational Christian creation-spirituality based church. Matthew Fox and Thomas Berry are the sort of things to look at. They run a very fun service, and they bring in a lot of pagan reference material, but they always link to Jesus.
posted by rikschell at 4:13 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you move to Asheville, there's Jubilee! It's a nondenominational Christian creation-spirituality based church. Matthew Fox and Thomas Berry are the sort of things to look at. They run a very fun service, and they bring in a lot of pagan reference material, but they always link to Jesus.
posted by rikschell at 4:13 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
You don't choose God he chooses you..We are not equals with God. We are servants under God.
Were you baptized at some point? That's your starting point. If you were baptized, you already are in a relationship with God and he will determine your path. Pray for guidance.
posted by AuntieRuth at 4:51 AM on July 7, 2009
Were you baptized at some point? That's your starting point. If you were baptized, you already are in a relationship with God and he will determine your path. Pray for guidance.
posted by AuntieRuth at 4:51 AM on July 7, 2009
Do you realize how much Christianity in the U.S. works against so much of what you believe? I'm still completely baffled by the fact that Christians aren't hard-core environmentalists. Their god put them on this Earth and they're not working tirelessly to preserve it?
Some Christians are environmentalists and do see this as their responsiblity. There are Christian environmental groups of varying denominations.
Christianity is not a monolithic thing in the U.S.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 AM on July 7, 2009
Some Christians are environmentalists and do see this as their responsiblity. There are Christian environmental groups of varying denominations.
Christianity is not a monolithic thing in the U.S.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 AM on July 7, 2009
I'm not sure if you can rationally "pick" a religion by looking down a list of options. It seems like you would be missing out on a fundamental reserve of mystery belonging to religion by not taking the emotional dimension into account (although you do have animist and mystical tendencies so maybe not). I suggest that you attend a few different services and physically experience the feeling of worship and see what feels best to you.
That said, I also think the Unitarian Universalists are closest to what you're looking for. I think they're the best inheritors of a rational, free-thinking, Enlightenment tradition as applied to Christianity. They're amazingly open-minded and encouraging of people with non-traditional views of a Christian God. It seems like with them, you would be able to retain your beliefs of a monotheistic God and nature spirits.
But along with phrontist, the first thing I thought of was gnosticism. It's the closest thing we have to untamed early Christianity, where there were tons of different interpretations jostling with each other for recognition and I'm pretty sure they were mixing it up with the other polytheistic religions, etc. as well so there was probably room for a little animism (talking burning bushes? yeah.). Beliefs that seem radical today would have been just another in a bunch. Of course was before all the woolly, ragged, wild-eyed sect leaders running around clashing staffs were slaughtered by Romans or declared heretics and snubbed from the Bible. It's too bad we have no real organization promoting gnosticism today, but it was a hugely sprawling body of philosophy back then as well. The closest recognition of relevant gnosticism I can think of today is Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy.
Then again, there's always modern pantheism. Strong belief in nature as the unified force of God, although not particularly animist. "Do you feel a deep sense of peace and belonging and wonder in the midst of Nature, in a forest, by the ocean, or on a mountain top? Are you speechless with awe when you look up at the sky on a clear moonless night and see the Milky Way strewn with stars as thick as sand on a beach? When you see breakers crashing on a rocky shore, or hear wind rustling in a poplar's leaves, are you uplifted by the energy and creativity of existence? If you answered yes to these questions, then you will feel thoroughly at home in the World Pantheist Movement."
Anyway, this was a really interesting question. Good luck.
posted by twins named Lugubrious and Salubrious at 5:26 AM on July 7, 2009
That said, I also think the Unitarian Universalists are closest to what you're looking for. I think they're the best inheritors of a rational, free-thinking, Enlightenment tradition as applied to Christianity. They're amazingly open-minded and encouraging of people with non-traditional views of a Christian God. It seems like with them, you would be able to retain your beliefs of a monotheistic God and nature spirits.
But along with phrontist, the first thing I thought of was gnosticism. It's the closest thing we have to untamed early Christianity, where there were tons of different interpretations jostling with each other for recognition and I'm pretty sure they were mixing it up with the other polytheistic religions, etc. as well so there was probably room for a little animism (talking burning bushes? yeah.). Beliefs that seem radical today would have been just another in a bunch. Of course was before all the woolly, ragged, wild-eyed sect leaders running around clashing staffs were slaughtered by Romans or declared heretics and snubbed from the Bible. It's too bad we have no real organization promoting gnosticism today, but it was a hugely sprawling body of philosophy back then as well. The closest recognition of relevant gnosticism I can think of today is Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy.
Then again, there's always modern pantheism. Strong belief in nature as the unified force of God, although not particularly animist. "Do you feel a deep sense of peace and belonging and wonder in the midst of Nature, in a forest, by the ocean, or on a mountain top? Are you speechless with awe when you look up at the sky on a clear moonless night and see the Milky Way strewn with stars as thick as sand on a beach? When you see breakers crashing on a rocky shore, or hear wind rustling in a poplar's leaves, are you uplifted by the energy and creativity of existence? If you answered yes to these questions, then you will feel thoroughly at home in the World Pantheist Movement."
Anyway, this was a really interesting question. Good luck.
posted by twins named Lugubrious and Salubrious at 5:26 AM on July 7, 2009
Another vote for Unitarian Universalism. My church has a pagan group that meets twice a month. Even if you find that UU isn't for you, you're likely to meet people who are interested in other religions and philosophies who will be able to point you in the right direction.
posted by diogenes at 5:46 AM on July 7, 2009
posted by diogenes at 5:46 AM on July 7, 2009
Nthing UU and/or Quakerism. They both sound closest to what you've described.
posted by Citrus at 7:42 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Citrus at 7:42 AM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Nthing both UU and Quakerism, as well. I would also add that you should go beyond just visiting a couple congregations in your area (although that's certainly where you should start). I would go and talk to the minister/elders/welcome committee and ask them questions. They will be more than happy to sit down with you and make you feel comfortable and welcome. Even if you don't "figure out your faith" right away, I've found that having a community to back you up as you try is very helpful and comforting.
I was raised Catholic and my husband is an Atheist, but just this Sunday we went to our local UU church, and both felt wonderful about it. We'll most likely go again next week. I also attended a Quaker college, and felt a lot of good connections to that faith.
Just remember, your spirituality is personal, specific to you. It's ok if you belong to a group with varying views, just take care to find one that's supportive of everyone.
posted by purpletangerine at 8:20 AM on July 7, 2009
I was raised Catholic and my husband is an Atheist, but just this Sunday we went to our local UU church, and both felt wonderful about it. We'll most likely go again next week. I also attended a Quaker college, and felt a lot of good connections to that faith.
Just remember, your spirituality is personal, specific to you. It's ok if you belong to a group with varying views, just take care to find one that's supportive of everyone.
posted by purpletangerine at 8:20 AM on July 7, 2009
Hi, yet another UU here. You sound like many of the people at my church. Come on by! There's a nametag and cup of coffee waiting for you.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:31 AM on July 7, 2009
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:31 AM on July 7, 2009
I'm not religious. In fact, I'm an atheist, and I'm totally non-spiritual.
My sense of wonderment about the world comes from science.
Pick up an astronomy book or a biology book and wonder at the coolness of the world and the galaxy.
Honestly, you don't need to follow any religion. Think for yourself, have your own spirituality if you need it. But determine it for yourself; don't let others determine it for you.
posted by kldickson at 2:21 PM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
My sense of wonderment about the world comes from science.
Pick up an astronomy book or a biology book and wonder at the coolness of the world and the galaxy.
Honestly, you don't need to follow any religion. Think for yourself, have your own spirituality if you need it. But determine it for yourself; don't let others determine it for you.
posted by kldickson at 2:21 PM on July 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Lots of people have said UU, but I haven't seen anyone point you towards CUUPS, the Covenant of UU Pagans. If you can find a local chapter attached to a congregation, that may be worth checking out.
posted by booksherpa at 6:30 AM on July 8, 2009
posted by booksherpa at 6:30 AM on July 8, 2009
Among Quakers you will find the whole gamut of beliefs. Liberal Quakers worship in silence, though someone may be moved by spirit to speak into the silence. Quakers seek the truth, wherever it may be found, and I am currently reading books on Buddhism, mysticism, toltec wisdom. Quakers believe there is 'that of 'God' in every person', Quakerism is a way of living, and not just Sunday worship.
There are also Quaker Churches, where in addition to a period of silence, there are also music, a sermon, and a fairly Protestant service.
I am friends with a Buddhist Quaker, an Atheist Quaker, and many non-Christian Quakers of other stripes.
Quakers are not dogmatic, as has been noted above, but most Quakers follow (or try to) a set of values called Testimonies. The most common Testimonies are Simplicity, Peace, Integrity, Community (or some say Compassion) and Equality. You can see why these leave lots of room for other beliefs. As our experiences change, so do our Testimonies--we used to have a Testimony against slavery, and some Quakers today count as testimonies such things as Stewardship of the Earth, Justice for Illegal Immigrants, and the like.
I second Belief-O-Matic
Blessings on your search, and may you find your light and be filled with it.
posted by QuakerMel at 5:23 PM on July 9, 2009
There are also Quaker Churches, where in addition to a period of silence, there are also music, a sermon, and a fairly Protestant service.
I am friends with a Buddhist Quaker, an Atheist Quaker, and many non-Christian Quakers of other stripes.
Quakers are not dogmatic, as has been noted above, but most Quakers follow (or try to) a set of values called Testimonies. The most common Testimonies are Simplicity, Peace, Integrity, Community (or some say Compassion) and Equality. You can see why these leave lots of room for other beliefs. As our experiences change, so do our Testimonies--we used to have a Testimony against slavery, and some Quakers today count as testimonies such things as Stewardship of the Earth, Justice for Illegal Immigrants, and the like.
I second Belief-O-Matic
Blessings on your search, and may you find your light and be filled with it.
posted by QuakerMel at 5:23 PM on July 9, 2009
You may also find Unity material interesting. Unity churches accept everyone and respect their respective personal paths. What belonging to a church community has added to my life, beyond the inspirational services, has been the community. My entire social circle has come from people I've connected with at church. Now being in our mid to late sixties, we are beginning to think we'll need to develop our own 'retirement community' as we have doubts we'd be happy in a conventional fundamental group situation. No problem....we can do it!
posted by elliemm at 6:12 AM on July 26, 2009
posted by elliemm at 6:12 AM on July 26, 2009
There is no God, so why not just get on with your life and stop worrying!
Seriously, why do these things matter to you? What is the point in them? dogma is generally not considered to be a good thing, put your energies into something concrete. If you like animals why not help out at a rescue centre.
I sincerely do not think that it is possible to live your life like this and find happiness, since you basically already admit that religion is a scam by attempting to pick and choose one you could belong to....
Yes, the world is complicated, but its not magical. If you continue to believe there are animal spirits or whatever you are deluding yourself - which your totally free to do, btw. But its not satisfying.
Philosophy is more than capable of helping you understand moral questions, if guidance is what you require. Just don't expect to be given a catechism.
posted by munchbunch at 10:50 AM on August 8, 2009
Seriously, why do these things matter to you? What is the point in them? dogma is generally not considered to be a good thing, put your energies into something concrete. If you like animals why not help out at a rescue centre.
I sincerely do not think that it is possible to live your life like this and find happiness, since you basically already admit that religion is a scam by attempting to pick and choose one you could belong to....
Yes, the world is complicated, but its not magical. If you continue to believe there are animal spirits or whatever you are deluding yourself - which your totally free to do, btw. But its not satisfying.
Philosophy is more than capable of helping you understand moral questions, if guidance is what you require. Just don't expect to be given a catechism.
posted by munchbunch at 10:50 AM on August 8, 2009
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Marie Laveau notoriously satisfied her people's spiritual needs by openly worshiping Catholic saints and voodoo deities at the same altar. There are many precedents for personal gnosis superceding dogma. Keep exploring!
posted by hermitosis at 7:38 PM on July 6, 2009