He ain't heavy, he's my single speed.
July 6, 2009 2:56 PM Subscribe
I've bought a frankenstein bicycle and want to fix it up. Need help with identification and suggestions.
Long story short, I've been asking around here in Gothenburg about what kind of bike it might be and suggestions for repairs, but I haven't gotten much in way of answers. There are pictures of the bike and some details on the Swedish forum happymtb if you'd care to take a look.
I got new crank wedges the other day, and the repair guy loosed the bottom bracket while at it, since it was too tight and the cranks didn't rotate freely. Well, the bottom bracket was prolly wound that tight since it's old and busted up inside - one of the pedals now pulsate and skip ever so slightly on each revolution, and there's a creaking noise on the gear side of the bracket.
So, it looks like I have to disassemble and repair or replace the bottom bracket. In order to do that I'd have to know what kind of tools I require, what type of bracket it is, what kind of wear and tear to look for, etc.
Part of the problem is that I know too little about the mechanics to ask the right questions. Pointing at the bike and drawling "it's brokened" isn't winning me any friends in the bike community here.
Here is a picture of the bottom bracket. FWIW the pedals are French, (Stamped with "Moillard C×Ↄ France" – althought it's hard to make out) and might help with identification. (Some people have suggested that this is of French make, perhaps a Peugeot or some such, but most certainly it's a cheap 70's or 80's road bike that's been remade into a single speed.)
An image of me throwing good money after bad might come to mind, but I don't want to give up on this thing; I reccon that I'll have to score used parts for this project, but if I can learn something while at it it might be worth it. Or will this all end in tears?
Long story short, I've been asking around here in Gothenburg about what kind of bike it might be and suggestions for repairs, but I haven't gotten much in way of answers. There are pictures of the bike and some details on the Swedish forum happymtb if you'd care to take a look.
I got new crank wedges the other day, and the repair guy loosed the bottom bracket while at it, since it was too tight and the cranks didn't rotate freely. Well, the bottom bracket was prolly wound that tight since it's old and busted up inside - one of the pedals now pulsate and skip ever so slightly on each revolution, and there's a creaking noise on the gear side of the bracket.
So, it looks like I have to disassemble and repair or replace the bottom bracket. In order to do that I'd have to know what kind of tools I require, what type of bracket it is, what kind of wear and tear to look for, etc.
Part of the problem is that I know too little about the mechanics to ask the right questions. Pointing at the bike and drawling "it's brokened" isn't winning me any friends in the bike community here.
Here is a picture of the bottom bracket. FWIW the pedals are French, (Stamped with "Moillard C×Ↄ France" – althought it's hard to make out) and might help with identification. (Some people have suggested that this is of French make, perhaps a Peugeot or some such, but most certainly it's a cheap 70's or 80's road bike that's been remade into a single speed.)
An image of me throwing good money after bad might come to mind, but I don't want to give up on this thing; I reccon that I'll have to score used parts for this project, but if I can learn something while at it it might be worth it. Or will this all end in tears?
it does seem to share several features with my own raleigh record, including the cottered cranks and same brand/style centerpull brakes. the only additional issue you may have with the crank bearings is that i believe they are set in a ring, as opposed to loose. most likely the ring is weak or damaged.
posted by lester at 3:51 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by lester at 3:51 PM on July 6, 2009
Response by poster: Hey, cottered cranks, I'm learning new words already!
Thanks for the replies. The Raleigh does look similar enough for identifying parts. What would you call the type of bottom bracket it uses (cartridge, hollow, "other") and would you know in what order to disassemble it with what tools? (Sheldon Brown never ceases to amaze, but I can't find instructions for this part.)
Something like this would be brilliant.
Did your Raleighs come with the non-standard size wheels? (mine are 27"×1¼ = 630mm)
posted by monocultured at 4:05 PM on July 6, 2009
Thanks for the replies. The Raleigh does look similar enough for identifying parts. What would you call the type of bottom bracket it uses (cartridge, hollow, "other") and would you know in what order to disassemble it with what tools? (Sheldon Brown never ceases to amaze, but I can't find instructions for this part.)
Something like this would be brilliant.
Did your Raleighs come with the non-standard size wheels? (mine are 27"×1¼ = 630mm)
posted by monocultured at 4:05 PM on July 6, 2009
Response by poster: Oops, so Sheldon does list the tools necessary to disassemble the cup-and-cone bracket in the second link a womble is an active kind of sloth posted. Now looking for pictures of how it looks disassembled and how to service parts (if possible)
posted by monocultured at 4:10 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by monocultured at 4:10 PM on July 6, 2009
Park tools is a great place for pictures. Also they have a bicycle image map where you can click on a part and then learn how to fix it even if you don't know the name.
posted by idiopath at 4:42 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by idiopath at 4:42 PM on July 6, 2009
Also: chances are the only supplies you will need to buy are a handful of brand new bearings (bearings are really not the kind of things you want to put on a bike used, and they are extremely inexpensive), a good degreaser like simplegreen, and a bunch of bearing grease.
posted by idiopath at 4:47 PM on July 6, 2009
posted by idiopath at 4:47 PM on July 6, 2009
FWIW the pedals are French, (Stamped with "Moillard C×Ↄ France" – althought it's hard to make out)
Probably "Maillard," a pretty common pedal (and hub) manufacturer in the 70s-80s.
The bike very well could be an old Peugeot, who made their fair share of crap bikes in the 70s and 80s.
posted by The Michael The at 4:55 PM on July 6, 2009
Probably "Maillard," a pretty common pedal (and hub) manufacturer in the 70s-80s.
The bike very well could be an old Peugeot, who made their fair share of crap bikes in the 70s and 80s.
posted by The Michael The at 4:55 PM on July 6, 2009
Best answer: First off, I can't figure out what "crank wedges" are, something is lost in translation. I don't see anything new on your bike, so please let me know what you're referring to...
You have a 70s boom-bike. It's a junker. Its fine for a city bike that you'll thrash about and leave outside, but don't let your repairs end up costing you more than the frame is worth.
I am going on record that your frame is not a Raleigh Record. What tells me that is the differently shaped seatstay caps, the unshaped lugs, the stamped dropouts, the plate instead of a rear brake bridge. It's possible that your bike is a low-end Peugeot, Motobecane, Gitane, Puch, Austro-Diamler or one of the hundreds of other manufacturers and brands in the 70s. Sorry, can't help with more specifics. The maillard pedals and weinman brakes were standard for the period as well, and don't help identify your frame. If yours is a french make, here's where proprietary threading makes things complicated, and why I suggest visiting a bike shop (that deals in vintage bikes) or a bike co-op.
The cranks are cottered. There is a little pin (cotter) that holds them in place, perpendicular to the bb axle. To service your bearings, you need to unbolt the pin, then knock it out with a mallet or special cotter pin tool. If you go the mallet route, there is a chance you can crack or bend the pin - they also wear out and deform, so perhaps buying a new one as a spare would be a good idea. The tool is hard to find, as it's no longer made by Park Tool. Bikesmith Designs sells their own Cotter Press, but at $55 it wouldn't be worth your while unless you planned on opening up your own co-op/selling it to a bike shop.
*Please note* I believe a worn-out cotter pin might be the cause of your pulsating and skipping, especially if there was only one pedal with those symptoms and not both, which you would feel if the bb axle was loose. Try replacing a pin first.
So you've got the cranks off. Now you're facing the BB. Your bottom bracket is most definitely "other", as in loose-ball, and assuredly not cartridge. You'll note the spindle is different from the one you linked in the swedish thread - there are the two recesses for the cotter pins in the side. That bb pic shown was for a cotterless, or today's commonplace bb, with crank bolts on the ends. The bb style you linked above ITT was a modern external bottom bracket, which is hollow. These are both different from what's on your bike now and require different, respective matching cranksets than what you have.
With the cranks off, to get at your bottom bracket bearings, you will need a lockring tool or lockring pliers to remove the lockring. From there, you might be able to budge the cups with a big adjustable wrench fixed on those raised profiles on the outer edges. Bikesmith makes a tool for this as well, but again, most likely it's not worth your purchase. Once the cups are out, clean out the old grease and dirt, being careful to not lose bearings and refill with fresh grease and the bearings.
Should you want, you can upgrade your cranks and bb to more modern cotterless, provided the threading of the bottom bracket shell is somewhat standard. Here's where you should have someone hold your hand - if the frame is french or swiss threaded, your options for conversion to modern cranks/bbs are very limited. (if you're lucky and the frame has British threads, you've got plenty of options) Phil Wood makes their bb's with appropriate rings, but they are costly. Velo-Orange just started making French Threaded sealed bb's in a JIS taper, but again, $48 for the bb + cost of new cranks is more than halfway to a more-recent vintage bike.
Regarding your rims, 27x 1 1/4 was the standard for that era. You can still find 27" tires manufactured and 700c tubes fit both 27/700c size rims. Should you want to upgrade your wheels, and you might, since the rims are heavy steel variety, modern 700c wheels will fit your frame, since they are 4mm smaller. The only difference is that your brake pads will need to be lowered to hit the rim - make sure the calipers have clearance to do so.
Please consider adding a rear brake. The heavy steel rims you are riding on are slow to stop when dry and difficult to stop in the rain.
So can and should you work on this bike, as a learning process? Sure. Should you spend $100 or more on fixing it up? I'd say no. You're living in Europe and should be able to find a more-recent vintage frame with better components, alloy rims, cotterless cranks and a well made frame for much less than 200euro. I have friends here in NYC that scour european auction sites for deals - with your access to local sales you should find a good deal. Ride this bike into the ground in the meantime.
Finally, I'm glad to see you taped your bars, but please plug the ends as well. Should you crash, the uncorked ends can take a core sample outta your thighs, which would be rather unpleasant.
posted by stachemaster at 3:18 AM on July 7, 2009
You have a 70s boom-bike. It's a junker. Its fine for a city bike that you'll thrash about and leave outside, but don't let your repairs end up costing you more than the frame is worth.
I am going on record that your frame is not a Raleigh Record. What tells me that is the differently shaped seatstay caps, the unshaped lugs, the stamped dropouts, the plate instead of a rear brake bridge. It's possible that your bike is a low-end Peugeot, Motobecane, Gitane, Puch, Austro-Diamler or one of the hundreds of other manufacturers and brands in the 70s. Sorry, can't help with more specifics. The maillard pedals and weinman brakes were standard for the period as well, and don't help identify your frame. If yours is a french make, here's where proprietary threading makes things complicated, and why I suggest visiting a bike shop (that deals in vintage bikes) or a bike co-op.
The cranks are cottered. There is a little pin (cotter) that holds them in place, perpendicular to the bb axle. To service your bearings, you need to unbolt the pin, then knock it out with a mallet or special cotter pin tool. If you go the mallet route, there is a chance you can crack or bend the pin - they also wear out and deform, so perhaps buying a new one as a spare would be a good idea. The tool is hard to find, as it's no longer made by Park Tool. Bikesmith Designs sells their own Cotter Press, but at $55 it wouldn't be worth your while unless you planned on opening up your own co-op/selling it to a bike shop.
*Please note* I believe a worn-out cotter pin might be the cause of your pulsating and skipping, especially if there was only one pedal with those symptoms and not both, which you would feel if the bb axle was loose. Try replacing a pin first.
So you've got the cranks off. Now you're facing the BB. Your bottom bracket is most definitely "other", as in loose-ball, and assuredly not cartridge. You'll note the spindle is different from the one you linked in the swedish thread - there are the two recesses for the cotter pins in the side. That bb pic shown was for a cotterless, or today's commonplace bb, with crank bolts on the ends. The bb style you linked above ITT was a modern external bottom bracket, which is hollow. These are both different from what's on your bike now and require different, respective matching cranksets than what you have.
With the cranks off, to get at your bottom bracket bearings, you will need a lockring tool or lockring pliers to remove the lockring. From there, you might be able to budge the cups with a big adjustable wrench fixed on those raised profiles on the outer edges. Bikesmith makes a tool for this as well, but again, most likely it's not worth your purchase. Once the cups are out, clean out the old grease and dirt, being careful to not lose bearings and refill with fresh grease and the bearings.
Should you want, you can upgrade your cranks and bb to more modern cotterless, provided the threading of the bottom bracket shell is somewhat standard. Here's where you should have someone hold your hand - if the frame is french or swiss threaded, your options for conversion to modern cranks/bbs are very limited. (if you're lucky and the frame has British threads, you've got plenty of options) Phil Wood makes their bb's with appropriate rings, but they are costly. Velo-Orange just started making French Threaded sealed bb's in a JIS taper, but again, $48 for the bb + cost of new cranks is more than halfway to a more-recent vintage bike.
Regarding your rims, 27x 1 1/4 was the standard for that era. You can still find 27" tires manufactured and 700c tubes fit both 27/700c size rims. Should you want to upgrade your wheels, and you might, since the rims are heavy steel variety, modern 700c wheels will fit your frame, since they are 4mm smaller. The only difference is that your brake pads will need to be lowered to hit the rim - make sure the calipers have clearance to do so.
Please consider adding a rear brake. The heavy steel rims you are riding on are slow to stop when dry and difficult to stop in the rain.
So can and should you work on this bike, as a learning process? Sure. Should you spend $100 or more on fixing it up? I'd say no. You're living in Europe and should be able to find a more-recent vintage frame with better components, alloy rims, cotterless cranks and a well made frame for much less than 200euro. I have friends here in NYC that scour european auction sites for deals - with your access to local sales you should find a good deal. Ride this bike into the ground in the meantime.
Finally, I'm glad to see you taped your bars, but please plug the ends as well. Should you crash, the uncorked ends can take a core sample outta your thighs, which would be rather unpleasant.
posted by stachemaster at 3:18 AM on July 7, 2009
Response by poster: Stachemaster, that was an awesome answer to my bumbling questions!
To clarify: "Crank wedges" is a direct translation of the Swedish name for "cotter pin" which I didn't know the proper name of. I just got both replaced at a shop, so I don't think that's the culprit behind the pulsating and skipping. Rather, the mechanic who installed those also loosened the bottom bracket a bit, which revealed something ungood in the bottom bracket.
My plan right now is to pick the bb apart, try to clean it out and grease it. If the bearings or such are worn out I'll try to score replacements. The jumping and creaking is more annoying than it is dangerous, so if my attempt doesn't help matters I'll leave it at that unless I find a replacement bb + cranks in the junkyard or something.
I'll try to find a cotter press (some shops still have those) but will go with Sheldon Browns hammer & support routine otherwise.
I've bought a second long-reach caliper sidepull break + pads better suited to the front stainless steel rim (alu on back) - I'll be mounting it asap. (The cable snapped while I was in traffic a couple of weeks ago, so I see the benefit of redundency.)
I've thought of plugging the bars because of rust and such in mind, but never envisioned the core sample scenario – what a horrible image…
As to finding better bikes to tinker with, Sweden has a lack of good and cheap frames to buy compared to the mainland; stuff is expensive. (Especially true for someone like me who doesn't know what he's doing or the value of stuff) And frustratingly enough, even though Gothenburg is littered with bikes, there are no co-ops available, and as you point out buying tools for a one-off seems overkill.
Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
posted by monocultured at 4:55 AM on July 7, 2009
To clarify: "Crank wedges" is a direct translation of the Swedish name for "cotter pin" which I didn't know the proper name of. I just got both replaced at a shop, so I don't think that's the culprit behind the pulsating and skipping. Rather, the mechanic who installed those also loosened the bottom bracket a bit, which revealed something ungood in the bottom bracket.
My plan right now is to pick the bb apart, try to clean it out and grease it. If the bearings or such are worn out I'll try to score replacements. The jumping and creaking is more annoying than it is dangerous, so if my attempt doesn't help matters I'll leave it at that unless I find a replacement bb + cranks in the junkyard or something.
I'll try to find a cotter press (some shops still have those) but will go with Sheldon Browns hammer & support routine otherwise.
I've bought a second long-reach caliper sidepull break + pads better suited to the front stainless steel rim (alu on back) - I'll be mounting it asap. (The cable snapped while I was in traffic a couple of weeks ago, so I see the benefit of redundency.)
I've thought of plugging the bars because of rust and such in mind, but never envisioned the core sample scenario – what a horrible image…
As to finding better bikes to tinker with, Sweden has a lack of good and cheap frames to buy compared to the mainland; stuff is expensive. (Especially true for someone like me who doesn't know what he's doing or the value of stuff) And frustratingly enough, even though Gothenburg is littered with bikes, there are no co-ops available, and as you point out buying tools for a one-off seems overkill.
Thanks for the help, much appreciated.
posted by monocultured at 4:55 AM on July 7, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
A few quirks I noticed on mine (that also exist on your bicycle) are the cottered cranks - these are pretty old and strange nowadays; and the brake calipers (the piece that clamps onto the wheel to slow it down). It's worth re-using those calipers as the clearance is very different to a modern road-bicycle.
I replaced all the bearings in the headset and bottom-bracket (just unbolt it all and take the old ones to a bike shop so you/they know the size. This made it all run pretty smoothly, and maybe that would help with your problem. I highly recommend Sheldon Brown's website as a source of information - for example he talks about how to repair bottom brackets here and describes the tools used.
Good luck with it!
posted by a womble is an active kind of sloth at 3:32 PM on July 6, 2009