How do I get my client to pay?
June 28, 2009 8:31 AM Subscribe
How do I get my money from a client who is trying to dodge me?
I recently did some work freelance design work for a start up web company. They client and I had a disagreement and I was let go. I sent them an invoice and now they want to argue about the amount and not pay. I have been trying to get in contact with them but it seems like they are avoiding my calls/emails. So how do I go about getting paid for the work I have already done?
I recently did some work freelance design work for a start up web company. They client and I had a disagreement and I was let go. I sent them an invoice and now they want to argue about the amount and not pay. I have been trying to get in contact with them but it seems like they are avoiding my calls/emails. So how do I go about getting paid for the work I have already done?
Ja, what rokusan said...
More.
Did you have a contract?
No? Then it's a your word against their word and time for small claims court (assuming less than 5K).
Yes? Then you might be able to get an attorney involved and file suit, but before you do that...
A certified letter to them that says "If you do not pay by x, I will file suit. I don't need to remind you that, when I prevail, the judgement will include attorney's fee in addition to the total invoice and interest."
That in itself is usually enough to make them pay up. You may even get your attorney to fire that shot across the bow.
IANAL, but they exist for a purpose.
Note, however, that if they're not paying, there's some possibility that they simply don't have the money to pay.
posted by foooooogasm at 8:45 AM on June 28, 2009
More.
Did you have a contract?
No? Then it's a your word against their word and time for small claims court (assuming less than 5K).
Yes? Then you might be able to get an attorney involved and file suit, but before you do that...
A certified letter to them that says "If you do not pay by x, I will file suit. I don't need to remind you that, when I prevail, the judgement will include attorney's fee in addition to the total invoice and interest."
That in itself is usually enough to make them pay up. You may even get your attorney to fire that shot across the bow.
IANAL, but they exist for a purpose.
Note, however, that if they're not paying, there's some possibility that they simply don't have the money to pay.
posted by foooooogasm at 8:45 AM on June 28, 2009
Do tell us that your invoice was not retaliatory, that you billed them honestly.
If not, then be prepared for a less than accommodating judge.
posted by foooooogasm at 8:47 AM on June 28, 2009
If not, then be prepared for a less than accommodating judge.
posted by foooooogasm at 8:47 AM on June 28, 2009
Small claims court is a sham. So you get a finding in your favor - at least when I had to file one in Massachusetts, all I got was a finding. BFD. I was out not only the bill, but the filing fee as well. Maybe OK if the client site is any more than a PO box and sufficiently cumbersome to move, but don't expect any help from the court in collecting: "Tell us where to serve them - otherwise, you're on your own."
posted by TruncatedTiller at 8:52 AM on June 28, 2009
posted by TruncatedTiller at 8:52 AM on June 28, 2009
Small claims court is a sham.
Small claims court is different in almost every jurisdiction, so making a blanket statement based on your one experience is ludicrous. But, yes, you need to note that if they aren't paying you because they don't have the money, you aren't likely to get it through court either. If they aren't paying you because they're jerks, then you might.
posted by grouse at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2009
Small claims court is different in almost every jurisdiction, so making a blanket statement based on your one experience is ludicrous. But, yes, you need to note that if they aren't paying you because they don't have the money, you aren't likely to get it through court either. If they aren't paying you because they're jerks, then you might.
posted by grouse at 9:04 AM on June 28, 2009
the judgement will include attorney's fee
Do not include this. If I may generalize a bit, this illustrates perfectly why non-lawyers should not attempt to write pseudo-demand letters. At best (if you meant "the cost of your own attorney") it is redundant; at worst (if you meant "the cost of my attorney"), it is almost certainly wrong. See the official comment to the relevant section of the FRCP - attorney fee-shifting is relatively rare in American civil suits.
IANAL.
If the cost of 2 hours of your attorney's time plus the total cost of the lawsuit is significantly less than the amount you expect to recover (which itself is above the small-claims maximum), consider having him send a demand letter and proceed from there. Otherwise, proceed directly to small claims court.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:09 AM on June 28, 2009
Do not include this. If I may generalize a bit, this illustrates perfectly why non-lawyers should not attempt to write pseudo-demand letters. At best (if you meant "the cost of your own attorney") it is redundant; at worst (if you meant "the cost of my attorney"), it is almost certainly wrong. See the official comment to the relevant section of the FRCP - attorney fee-shifting is relatively rare in American civil suits.
IANAL.
If the cost of 2 hours of your attorney's time plus the total cost of the lawsuit is significantly less than the amount you expect to recover (which itself is above the small-claims maximum), consider having him send a demand letter and proceed from there. Otherwise, proceed directly to small claims court.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:09 AM on June 28, 2009
You're generalizing my generalization! ;)
I don't understand what you mean re: redundant? How so? And re: wrong? How is it wrong?
What's your source for the comment on civil procedure?
I can tell you after just going through civil litigation (not small claims) that my attorney collected a sizable sum in addition to the judgement for his 167 billable hours.
posted by foooooogasm at 9:28 AM on June 28, 2009
I don't understand what you mean re: redundant? How so? And re: wrong? How is it wrong?
What's your source for the comment on civil procedure?
I can tell you after just going through civil litigation (not small claims) that my attorney collected a sizable sum in addition to the judgement for his 167 billable hours.
posted by foooooogasm at 9:28 AM on June 28, 2009
First send them a registered letter with your invoice. The registered letter is so you'll have proof with signature that they got your invoice. Along with your invoice include a note saying if payment is not made within 30 days legal action will be taken. If they are currently using the designs that have not been paid for then mention that they have to stop using them until they are paid for. Including a copy of the contract with the relevant bits highlighted might help if they are in very clear violation of contract. Mention that you're willing to work out a payment plan, however the first payment must be received within 30 days.
Then study up on small claims and see if you qualify in your state and jurisdiction. If it's more than small claims amount in your area then get a lawyer. If you don't know where to start with that, contact the bar association in your area, they can refer you.
From my experience with startups: Are you the only one they're dodging? If not then you might reconsider how much effort I'd put into getting your money back since there might not be any money to get. Small claims can be a headache to file all of the papers correctly, pay the process server, etc. If they declare bankruptcy you might get a few pennies on your dollar. Consider letting it go and calling it a lesson learned. Don't go Captain Ahab on these guys because you had a disagreement. (He says from experience.)
Also, don't send a letter threatening legal action without following through on it or you look like an ass.
posted by Ookseer at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
Then study up on small claims and see if you qualify in your state and jurisdiction. If it's more than small claims amount in your area then get a lawyer. If you don't know where to start with that, contact the bar association in your area, they can refer you.
From my experience with startups: Are you the only one they're dodging? If not then you might reconsider how much effort I'd put into getting your money back since there might not be any money to get. Small claims can be a headache to file all of the papers correctly, pay the process server, etc. If they declare bankruptcy you might get a few pennies on your dollar. Consider letting it go and calling it a lesson learned. Don't go Captain Ahab on these guys because you had a disagreement. (He says from experience.)
Also, don't send a letter threatening legal action without following through on it or you look like an ass.
posted by Ookseer at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2009 [3 favorites]
"Tell us where to serve them - otherwise, you're on your own."
You expect a civil court to help you find the person you're suing?
posted by jayder at 9:41 AM on June 28, 2009
You expect a civil court to help you find the person you're suing?
posted by jayder at 9:41 AM on June 28, 2009
First things first!
First write an unemotional letter that regurgitates all the facts succinctly. Ie:
On (date) we met in your offices and agreed that I would begin work on (date). We agreed my fee would be (x)...etc etc. Include information about stopping work on the project and why (remaining factual --report it like an objective bystander). At the end of the letter advise that you are attaching your invoice and do so. Indicate that your calls and emails have gone unanswered. Advise them that you expect payment within 30 days of the date of the letter and that failure to do so will result in a complaint to the Bureau of Labor as well as civil court. Even if you have no written agreement your oral contract is binding. Send the letter return receipt requested (very important).
It is likely that they will assert that your work was shoddy or whatever..but you will have the upper hand if you write this letter. They will have to answer and if they are too busy to do so and you go to court you will have the paper trail and they will not. You'll win if you have more paper and better paper than they do. That's just how it works. Judges want to see the papers. Document everything.
posted by naplesyellow at 9:46 AM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
First write an unemotional letter that regurgitates all the facts succinctly. Ie:
On (date) we met in your offices and agreed that I would begin work on (date). We agreed my fee would be (x)...etc etc. Include information about stopping work on the project and why (remaining factual --report it like an objective bystander). At the end of the letter advise that you are attaching your invoice and do so. Indicate that your calls and emails have gone unanswered. Advise them that you expect payment within 30 days of the date of the letter and that failure to do so will result in a complaint to the Bureau of Labor as well as civil court. Even if you have no written agreement your oral contract is binding. Send the letter return receipt requested (very important).
It is likely that they will assert that your work was shoddy or whatever..but you will have the upper hand if you write this letter. They will have to answer and if they are too busy to do so and you go to court you will have the paper trail and they will not. You'll win if you have more paper and better paper than they do. That's just how it works. Judges want to see the papers. Document everything.
posted by naplesyellow at 9:46 AM on June 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
foooogasm: For one thing, and I'm sure California isn't alone here, small claims does not allow attorneys so trying to reclaim amounts paid to one might not succeed by that token.
If OP has a lawyer, by all means send some paper the company's way, but do not fart around on this. If you don't hear from the company within a week or so, serve them with papers. You can file the case while you're waiting on the lawyer letter, then either serve the papers or throw the case away, but you want to have a 1-2 punch in case they try to get cute or crawl into their hidey holes.
Why people posting anonymously feel they still have to leave out 2/3 of relevant-but-nonidentifying information is beyond me. Did you have an agreement? What was the nature of your disagreement? These things matter, believe it or not.
posted by rhizome at 9:56 AM on June 28, 2009
If OP has a lawyer, by all means send some paper the company's way, but do not fart around on this. If you don't hear from the company within a week or so, serve them with papers. You can file the case while you're waiting on the lawyer letter, then either serve the papers or throw the case away, but you want to have a 1-2 punch in case they try to get cute or crawl into their hidey holes.
Why people posting anonymously feel they still have to leave out 2/3 of relevant-but-nonidentifying information is beyond me. Did you have an agreement? What was the nature of your disagreement? These things matter, believe it or not.
posted by rhizome at 9:56 AM on June 28, 2009
Why people posting anonymously feel they still have to leave out 2/3 of relevant-but-nonidentifying information is beyond me. Did you have an agreement? What was the nature of your disagreement? These things matter, believe it or not.
Heartily seconded.
posted by jayder at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2009
Heartily seconded.
posted by jayder at 10:16 AM on June 28, 2009
Combine the very good advice of naplesyellow and Ookseer as your first step. Then decide whether it's worth it to proceed legally depending on what's available to you (with all the cautions up thread).
Remember to evaluate how much time it will take to deal with this and whether it's worth throwing that time into the process to get x in possible payout. It's easy to forget this when you're pissed at a client and the process.
posted by kch at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2009
Remember to evaluate how much time it will take to deal with this and whether it's worth throwing that time into the process to get x in possible payout. It's easy to forget this when you're pissed at a client and the process.
posted by kch at 10:37 AM on June 28, 2009
If you can sell the debt to a collection agency, you could at least get some of the money, and get it up front from the agency, instead of hassling with the web company.
posted by ctmf at 11:23 AM on June 28, 2009
posted by ctmf at 11:23 AM on June 28, 2009
I am not your lawyer. I am not your lawyer. I am not your lawyer.
Fooogasm made two statements which may not be true in all states.
"Then it's a your word against their word and time for small claims court (assuming less than 5K)."
If you can show you did work for the client, and the client knowing accepted the benefit of your work, that may be enough to how you're entitled to some amount of money, probably even your invoice. This probably depends on the law of your jurisdiction.
"when I prevail, the judgement will include attorney's fee in addition to the total invoice and interest."
This depends on the law of your jurisdiction, whether your contract allows for attorney's fees, and whether there is any other law that might allow for a fee award. In many cases, you will NOT get attorney's fees. A lawyer in your area would know.
posted by mikewas at 12:44 PM on June 28, 2009
Fooogasm made two statements which may not be true in all states.
"Then it's a your word against their word and time for small claims court (assuming less than 5K)."
If you can show you did work for the client, and the client knowing accepted the benefit of your work, that may be enough to how you're entitled to some amount of money, probably even your invoice. This probably depends on the law of your jurisdiction.
"when I prevail, the judgement will include attorney's fee in addition to the total invoice and interest."
This depends on the law of your jurisdiction, whether your contract allows for attorney's fees, and whether there is any other law that might allow for a fee award. In many cases, you will NOT get attorney's fees. A lawyer in your area would know.
posted by mikewas at 12:44 PM on June 28, 2009
I do recommend you go to small claims, even though it's a huge bitch. Collecting is the hard part, though. I went to CA small claims after a freelance client stiffed me (the pub went under). I did have a contract, plus all our e-mail correspondence. He didn't show up, though he'd signed the certified mail summons. I won! ...and have not seen a penny of it. Recently, I put a lien on said deadbeat's house. There are other methods to collect. All are additional bitches.
posted by changeling at 12:46 PM on June 28, 2009
posted by changeling at 12:46 PM on June 28, 2009
This depends on the law of your jurisdiction, whether your contract allows for attorney's fees,
I refrained from mentioning this because I don't know the law of any state but my own --- but it is called "the American rule" that each party pays its own attorneys fees barring some statutory or contractual provision to the contrary. Which is why it's so important that when freelancers are writing contracts for their services, it include language saying that if they have to commence a collections action or lawsuit, the client will be responsible for the freelancer's attorney fees in collecting.
posted by jayder at 2:29 PM on June 28, 2009
I refrained from mentioning this because I don't know the law of any state but my own --- but it is called "the American rule" that each party pays its own attorneys fees barring some statutory or contractual provision to the contrary. Which is why it's so important that when freelancers are writing contracts for their services, it include language saying that if they have to commence a collections action or lawsuit, the client will be responsible for the freelancer's attorney fees in collecting.
posted by jayder at 2:29 PM on June 28, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
I have been in your situation: odds are, if they don't have a valid argument they won't even show up, in which event the case will default to you.
Nine times out of ten, just filing it will make them pay because they will see you're serious and probably don't want the hassle.
posted by rokusan at 8:35 AM on June 28, 2009