My time is worth more than this.
June 21, 2009 5:42 PM Subscribe
Workfilter: My small company has cut benefits and pay, closed my office and given my peers promotions without raises. They've also taught me everything I know. How loyal should I be to them?
I work for a small PR firm that is currently going through the same struggles that our media counterparts are going through-- paycuts, downgraded health insurance, an office "relocation" to a location 1.25 hrs from the city (and I don't have a car-- I carpool), etc. I have not adjusted well to the transition, but the biggest difficulty has been the paycut. I know it's my own poor planning, but I am literally living paycheck to paycheck now. I have some reason to believe that I could be making much more using the same types of communication skills I already have.
That said, I feel guilty about looking elsewhere. They hired me as an entry-level candidate straight out of college a little less than a year ago, and they've taught me everything I know. I also recently joined a new account team from which I am learning a LOT, and I can see myself continuing to learn and grow professionally with this team's support. Because most people at my company are quite a bit older than I am, I don't see any of my colleagues outside of work on a personal level, but I do enjoy working with this team.
My company is only about 25 people, and over the past few months we've lost three people due to frustration with the work environment. We've also had several people "promoted" (without raises)-- my best guess is that these promotions have been driven because our company can't lose these folks but doesn't have the cash right now. (We've lost a lot of clients recently.) For a few reasons, primarily my client load and focused experience in my area, I believe I'm also seen as "valuable" at the firm.
Hivemind, I may have some possible job opportunities on the horizon, and I want to proceed with the confidence that I'm taking the right steps. Here are my questions:
1) How much do I owe this company? Should I feel guilty for trying to leave while still taking on new responsibilities/client relationships? I don't want to burn any bridges with them, and I don't want to leave them in the lurch, but I can sell my time at a much higher rate than this.
2) If you have used a job offer to leverage a salary increase at your current job during difficult economic times, how did it go over? (FWIW: as my pay was cut 20%, I would be asking for a "restoration" vs. a "raise.") Given how much I'm learning with this new team, I can ignore the crappy commuting/telecommuting/benefit-free situation if I'm at least making a living wage (which... I'm not. :/)-- but how do I do it?
I work for a small PR firm that is currently going through the same struggles that our media counterparts are going through-- paycuts, downgraded health insurance, an office "relocation" to a location 1.25 hrs from the city (and I don't have a car-- I carpool), etc. I have not adjusted well to the transition, but the biggest difficulty has been the paycut. I know it's my own poor planning, but I am literally living paycheck to paycheck now. I have some reason to believe that I could be making much more using the same types of communication skills I already have.
That said, I feel guilty about looking elsewhere. They hired me as an entry-level candidate straight out of college a little less than a year ago, and they've taught me everything I know. I also recently joined a new account team from which I am learning a LOT, and I can see myself continuing to learn and grow professionally with this team's support. Because most people at my company are quite a bit older than I am, I don't see any of my colleagues outside of work on a personal level, but I do enjoy working with this team.
My company is only about 25 people, and over the past few months we've lost three people due to frustration with the work environment. We've also had several people "promoted" (without raises)-- my best guess is that these promotions have been driven because our company can't lose these folks but doesn't have the cash right now. (We've lost a lot of clients recently.) For a few reasons, primarily my client load and focused experience in my area, I believe I'm also seen as "valuable" at the firm.
Hivemind, I may have some possible job opportunities on the horizon, and I want to proceed with the confidence that I'm taking the right steps. Here are my questions:
1) How much do I owe this company? Should I feel guilty for trying to leave while still taking on new responsibilities/client relationships? I don't want to burn any bridges with them, and I don't want to leave them in the lurch, but I can sell my time at a much higher rate than this.
2) If you have used a job offer to leverage a salary increase at your current job during difficult economic times, how did it go over? (FWIW: as my pay was cut 20%, I would be asking for a "restoration" vs. a "raise.") Given how much I'm learning with this new team, I can ignore the crappy commuting/telecommuting/benefit-free situation if I'm at least making a living wage (which... I'm not. :/)-- but how do I do it?
I remind myself all the time: business has no soul.
The company will not be loyal to you for displaying loyalty. You should act accordingly.
posted by hippybear at 5:46 PM on June 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
The company will not be loyal to you for displaying loyalty. You should act accordingly.
posted by hippybear at 5:46 PM on June 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
How much do I owe this company?
Every day you work for them, you owe them doing your job well for the agreed upon price (whatever it happens to be that day). You do not owe them never-ending loyalty just because they gave you a job. They're certainly not going to be loyal to you forever- if they had to cut you to keep the company afloat, they'd do it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:48 PM on June 21, 2009 [10 favorites]
Every day you work for them, you owe them doing your job well for the agreed upon price (whatever it happens to be that day). You do not owe them never-ending loyalty just because they gave you a job. They're certainly not going to be loyal to you forever- if they had to cut you to keep the company afloat, they'd do it.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 5:48 PM on June 21, 2009 [10 favorites]
There may be exceptions, but in general, I remind people that businesses will not be loyal to them if it will cost the business. Therefore I don't recommend that people extend this same courtesy to a business.
posted by AnnaRat at 5:57 PM on June 21, 2009
posted by AnnaRat at 5:57 PM on June 21, 2009
I stayed with a non-profit that I loved through some ups and downs. It was also my first professional job, and I was able to progress rapidly up the ladder. Eventually my department got caught in an internal political mess, I was shocked by the ruthlessness with which we were treated as the department was disbanded. It wasn't just a lay off... it was months of twisting and turning, trying to get the most out of those of us who were left, and giving as little as they could in return. Ugliness. I came out okay in the end... but it really opened my eyes to the world of work.
Finding another job is not disloyalty. It's practicality. I can't imagine that they will be surprised, given the circumstances. Just be honorable (work out whatever notice is appropriate, etc).
posted by kimdog at 6:08 PM on June 21, 2009
Finding another job is not disloyalty. It's practicality. I can't imagine that they will be surprised, given the circumstances. Just be honorable (work out whatever notice is appropriate, etc).
posted by kimdog at 6:08 PM on June 21, 2009
No reasonable manager or partner or your firm would hold it against you personally if you left to pursue a much higher paying opportunity, particularly if their pay-cuts and locations changes have made staying difficult. The ones worth knowing will take out you out for drinks after your last day and will cheer on your success.
With that said, you must do your best not to be a short-term thinker. If this is what you want to do when you grow up, you need to put long-term professional development first. It is completely the wrong move to leave a job where you know that you are learning fast and being given increasing responsibility when the reason for moving is a 10% or 20% raise or a 45 minute better commute. The hiring process is a very poor predictor / indicator of whether the next job will really offer good opportunities -- in part because everyone's on their best / most optimistic behavior in the hiring process, but perhaps in greater part because it can be pretty darn random when and whether the elements of opportunity fall into place. The price of the $5,000 raise you want now could be the $500,000 job you want 15 years from now.
posted by MattD at 6:10 PM on June 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
With that said, you must do your best not to be a short-term thinker. If this is what you want to do when you grow up, you need to put long-term professional development first. It is completely the wrong move to leave a job where you know that you are learning fast and being given increasing responsibility when the reason for moving is a 10% or 20% raise or a 45 minute better commute. The hiring process is a very poor predictor / indicator of whether the next job will really offer good opportunities -- in part because everyone's on their best / most optimistic behavior in the hiring process, but perhaps in greater part because it can be pretty darn random when and whether the elements of opportunity fall into place. The price of the $5,000 raise you want now could be the $500,000 job you want 15 years from now.
posted by MattD at 6:10 PM on June 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
- Lower pay
- Fewer (no?) benefits
- Higher expectations
- Gratuitous personal time wasting
posted by Mitheral at 6:17 PM on June 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
As someone who employs people in an office of just under 20: If I had to do these things (move, cut pay/benefits, etc.) just to keep the doors open I would expect this. And I would not take it personally if one of my team decided they saw some greener pastures.
posted by FlamingBore at 6:28 PM on June 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by FlamingBore at 6:28 PM on June 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you've only been with the company a year it's very unlikely they've taught you all you know. On the other hand, you're no longer fresh out of college and you've got your foot in the door in your industry.
Take advice from Brother Marx on the loyalty an employee should give their employer:
Take advice from Brother Marx on the loyalty an employee should give their employer:
The bourgeoisie, wherever it has got the upper hand, has put an end to all feudal, patriarchal, idyllic relations. It has pitilessly torn asunder the motley feudal ties that bound man to his “natural superiors”, and has left remaining no other nexus between man and man than naked self-interest, than callous “cash payment”.posted by Fiasco da Gama at 6:49 PM on June 21, 2009
I have had a large number of jobs in my life, many in communications (advertising). When I look back on my career, my biggest regrets were when I felt the need to be loyal and then got emotionally hurt over a company's actions. My smartest decisions were when I did what was right for me and my career, professionally and without bs.
Companies, and even very nice people in companies, will not act in your interest unless it serves their interest. Bosses will think less of you if your career is anything else but the same relationship back at the company.
posted by Gucky at 7:10 PM on June 21, 2009
Companies, and even very nice people in companies, will not act in your interest unless it serves their interest. Bosses will think less of you if your career is anything else but the same relationship back at the company.
posted by Gucky at 7:10 PM on June 21, 2009
Nthing everyone telling you to not worry about loyalty. This company taught you everything you know because it was in their best interest for you to serve them knowledgeably and skillfully. They'd drop you as soon as it became apparently that they'd be more profitable without you, so treat them the same way.
Like a lot of people, I was way too loyal to the first company I worked for out of college, and while I did hone my skills quite a bit, I also missed out on better opportunities.
posted by ignignokt at 7:23 PM on June 21, 2009
Like a lot of people, I was way too loyal to the first company I worked for out of college, and while I did hone my skills quite a bit, I also missed out on better opportunities.
posted by ignignokt at 7:23 PM on June 21, 2009
A paycheck rents your behavior; it does not buy your soul. (Wish I could remember where I heard that.) The company discharges its debt to you with every paycheck and would not hesitate to kick you to the curb if it would benefit the bottom line. Your only obligation to the company is to earn that paycheck fairly.
If you can find a job with better pay and benefits, I'd suggest you take it. You will most likely learn a lot at the new company too, and it's often very valuable to see how a variety of companies approach their business, as opposed to staying in one place too long (you get indoctrinated and don't see that there can be many ways to approach a problem). Also, it might make you feel better to think that by leaving the first company, you might be opening up a job in the new city for somebody who really needs it. Good luck!
posted by Quietgal at 7:25 PM on June 21, 2009
If you can find a job with better pay and benefits, I'd suggest you take it. You will most likely learn a lot at the new company too, and it's often very valuable to see how a variety of companies approach their business, as opposed to staying in one place too long (you get indoctrinated and don't see that there can be many ways to approach a problem). Also, it might make you feel better to think that by leaving the first company, you might be opening up a job in the new city for somebody who really needs it. Good luck!
posted by Quietgal at 7:25 PM on June 21, 2009
In a company that small, in hard times, your leaving for greener pastures may be a relief: it could mean those in charge have one less layoff/paycut to do.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:15 PM on June 21, 2009
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:15 PM on June 21, 2009
This may sound cynical, but in my experience loyalty is always misplaced in the business world. They wouldn't give a second thought to axing you if the business environment demanded it, and you are perfectly within acceptable ethics to look out for #1 (you).
posted by rhizome at 11:48 PM on June 21, 2009
posted by rhizome at 11:48 PM on June 21, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Seriously, don't mix business and emotions.
posted by mpls2 at 5:46 PM on June 21, 2009