Is This A Scam Or A Mistake?
June 20, 2009 11:39 AM Subscribe
Is this a twist on a money order scam or is it some weird mistake?
I received in the mail two Moneygram money orders, both for an equal amount (less than $1000).Addresses on the envelope were handwritten. The return address is that of a married couple in Oregon. Both money orders are payable to one of the people in the return address.
Nothing else is in the envelope. I do not know the people in the return address. I haven't sold anything online.
I called the fraud people at Moneygram who reported both money orders have already been cashed. That is, the numbers on the orders correspond to cashed orders. Note that is not equivalent to saying I have two authentic money orders.
So, is this a scam? If so, how does it work? If not, how do two people unknown to me get my address and then mail me cashed money orders?
I'm leaning strongly toward scam, if for no other reason than my address on the envelope includes my full Zipcode, e.g., the xxxxx-xxxx format, such as might be found in a list of stolen addresses from a bank or business.
Finally, one of my credit card issuers caught a few instances of attempted fraud on my account recently. The account was closed.
What say you all? Is there a scam that involved mailing legitimate but cashed money orders to strangers?
Or, are these money orders counterfeit copies of legitimate money orders a scammer managed to acquire?
I received in the mail two Moneygram money orders, both for an equal amount (less than $1000).Addresses on the envelope were handwritten. The return address is that of a married couple in Oregon. Both money orders are payable to one of the people in the return address.
Nothing else is in the envelope. I do not know the people in the return address. I haven't sold anything online.
I called the fraud people at Moneygram who reported both money orders have already been cashed. That is, the numbers on the orders correspond to cashed orders. Note that is not equivalent to saying I have two authentic money orders.
So, is this a scam? If so, how does it work? If not, how do two people unknown to me get my address and then mail me cashed money orders?
I'm leaning strongly toward scam, if for no other reason than my address on the envelope includes my full Zipcode, e.g., the xxxxx-xxxx format, such as might be found in a list of stolen addresses from a bank or business.
Finally, one of my credit card issuers caught a few instances of attempted fraud on my account recently. The account was closed.
What say you all? Is there a scam that involved mailing legitimate but cashed money orders to strangers?
Or, are these money orders counterfeit copies of legitimate money orders a scammer managed to acquire?
"Oh, we must have accidentally sent you those money orders. Well, can you wire it back to us? Just use the money orders to pay for the transfer."
posted by rokusan at 12:09 PM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by rokusan at 12:09 PM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: >>" Just use the money orders to pay for the transfer."
Sure, that's the first thing I thought. but why wouldn't the scammers have made sure to include a phone number in the envelope? Most folks, including me, are unlikely to write them a letter.
posted by justcorbly at 12:20 PM on June 20, 2009
Sure, that's the first thing I thought. but why wouldn't the scammers have made sure to include a phone number in the envelope? Most folks, including me, are unlikely to write them a letter.
posted by justcorbly at 12:20 PM on June 20, 2009
Sure, that's the first thing I thought. but why wouldn't the scammers have made sure to include a phone number in the envelope? Most folks, including me, are unlikely to write them a letter.
Option A) They're not very good at it.
Option B) They intend to call you and ask about it, claiming they sent it to your address by mistake.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:55 PM on June 20, 2009
Option A) They're not very good at it.
Option B) They intend to call you and ask about it, claiming they sent it to your address by mistake.
posted by [insert clever name here] at 12:55 PM on June 20, 2009
I'm completely confused - you received an envelope with money orders enclosed from someone you don't know? That part I understand. But then you find out that both money orders have already been cashed? That's where I get lost. Why mail cashed money orders to someone? Isn't that like mailing a cancelled check to someon? :::Hoping I don't sound too dense here, but if this is a scam, I'd like to understand how it works.:::
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:23 PM on June 20, 2009
posted by Oriole Adams at 1:23 PM on June 20, 2009
I did a little digging and found this: http://fraudwar.blogspot.com/2008/06/fraudsters-mutate-counterfeit-moneygram.html It looks like a few people were sent checks with no previous contact or enclosed letter. I'm even more convinced that its option a).
posted by [insert clever name here] at 1:24 PM on June 20, 2009
posted by [insert clever name here] at 1:24 PM on June 20, 2009
likely scam, I have a friend who recently received USPS money orders, was able to deposit them at the bank, and then it turned out they were fake and the money was withdrawn from her account by the bank.
This is only a scam if you're supposed to be getting real money, because you end up getting nothing. In this case, they expected nothing, so the worst case of depositing them is ending up with nothing. Nets out to zero.
posted by smackfu at 2:48 PM on June 20, 2009
This is only a scam if you're supposed to be getting real money, because you end up getting nothing. In this case, they expected nothing, so the worst case of depositing them is ending up with nothing. Nets out to zero.
posted by smackfu at 2:48 PM on June 20, 2009
I bet rokusan has it. The money orders may be listed as "cashed" because the scammers already cashed them out, using their numbers somehow, or because they somehow duplicated or perhaps counterfeited money orders they knew were already cashed—something along those lines—and then sent these pieces of paper to you.
You receive these pieces of paper and, knowing how money orders work, believe these are potentially the only extant copies of money orders meant for someone else. That makes these documents valuable, since if they're real, someone else's money is bound up in them, so you hold onto them. That's when one of the scammers contacts you, saying, "Gosh, sorry, we had a mixup, I meant to send this home to my wife but wrote the address down wrong. My wife really needs this money, though—maybe the easiest thing to do at this point would be if you could cash these money orders, then wire my wife the funds. Could you do that for us? Just take any fees you need out of the cash there, you're completely due that for helping us, my wife just needs to get most of it so she can pay the mortgage on time." You do so, only to find in a few days' time that the bank or place you cashed the money order wants the money you sent back, 'cause the money order comes through as fraudulent. You're then on the hook for $1,000+, and the scammers get away with the funds you wired.
Alternately, if they have access to your bank account, perhaps they hoped you would be tempted to deposit one or both of the money orders and leave it in the account long enough for them to withdraw it. Then, when the money order comes through as fraudulent in a few days' time, you'd be on the hook to the bank for the amount of money they withdrew. You could flag it as fraud and get on the phone with the bank to clear it all up, but in the meantime, the scammers will have gotten away with the cash.
posted by limeonaire at 3:24 PM on June 20, 2009
You receive these pieces of paper and, knowing how money orders work, believe these are potentially the only extant copies of money orders meant for someone else. That makes these documents valuable, since if they're real, someone else's money is bound up in them, so you hold onto them. That's when one of the scammers contacts you, saying, "Gosh, sorry, we had a mixup, I meant to send this home to my wife but wrote the address down wrong. My wife really needs this money, though—maybe the easiest thing to do at this point would be if you could cash these money orders, then wire my wife the funds. Could you do that for us? Just take any fees you need out of the cash there, you're completely due that for helping us, my wife just needs to get most of it so she can pay the mortgage on time." You do so, only to find in a few days' time that the bank or place you cashed the money order wants the money you sent back, 'cause the money order comes through as fraudulent. You're then on the hook for $1,000+, and the scammers get away with the funds you wired.
Alternately, if they have access to your bank account, perhaps they hoped you would be tempted to deposit one or both of the money orders and leave it in the account long enough for them to withdraw it. Then, when the money order comes through as fraudulent in a few days' time, you'd be on the hook to the bank for the amount of money they withdrew. You could flag it as fraud and get on the phone with the bank to clear it all up, but in the meantime, the scammers will have gotten away with the cash.
posted by limeonaire at 3:24 PM on June 20, 2009
And perhaps they didn't put a phone number on it because they didn't want to give you a real number. When they call later they can block caller ID, so you don't have any way of reaching them or verifying who they are.
The address info can be faked—perhaps it's an elderly neighbor couple's mailbox that isn't checked a lot that they use for fraudulent transactions. Maybe they've already stolen the neighbors' identities, and have another bank account open in their name that they use to avoid being traced. If the police show up at that address, the couple will be bewildered—and completely unable to help solve the mystery. Could be, anyway.
The Postal Inspection service, as rigby51 pointed out, is exactly who you want to contact about this.
posted by limeonaire at 3:31 PM on June 20, 2009
The address info can be faked—perhaps it's an elderly neighbor couple's mailbox that isn't checked a lot that they use for fraudulent transactions. Maybe they've already stolen the neighbors' identities, and have another bank account open in their name that they use to avoid being traced. If the police show up at that address, the couple will be bewildered—and completely unable to help solve the mystery. Could be, anyway.
The Postal Inspection service, as rigby51 pointed out, is exactly who you want to contact about this.
posted by limeonaire at 3:31 PM on June 20, 2009
Response by poster: Well, I'm inclined to think they were sent by not-very-clever scammers.
The envelope was addressed to me by name, so the argument that they're going to claim they were sent to me by mistake won't wash. I suspect someone just bought a list of names and addresses and sent the same thing to everyone on the list.
I'm also inclined to think the money orders are counterfeit "copies" of legitimate money orders. But, not only does Moneygram say they were cashed, but the money orders are stamped on the back as being successfully cleared in a clearing house. So, why would scammers send me fake money orders intending for me to deposit them and wire equivalent funds if the money orders themselves indicated they've been cashed? Wouldn't that prevent me depositing or cashing them?
The orders are also made out to a specific person, not me. I dunno, can you endorse and cash such a money order?
I know little about money orders, but I don't see how I could deposit or cash a counterfeiit money order made out to someone else that is stamped on the back with an indication that is has been through a clearing house.
It's almost impossbile to conjure a scenario in which total strangers mailed to me legitimate but cashed money orders. On the other hand, I'm at a loss to understand how the scam would work.
posted by justcorbly at 4:46 PM on June 20, 2009
The envelope was addressed to me by name, so the argument that they're going to claim they were sent to me by mistake won't wash. I suspect someone just bought a list of names and addresses and sent the same thing to everyone on the list.
I'm also inclined to think the money orders are counterfeit "copies" of legitimate money orders. But, not only does Moneygram say they were cashed, but the money orders are stamped on the back as being successfully cleared in a clearing house. So, why would scammers send me fake money orders intending for me to deposit them and wire equivalent funds if the money orders themselves indicated they've been cashed? Wouldn't that prevent me depositing or cashing them?
The orders are also made out to a specific person, not me. I dunno, can you endorse and cash such a money order?
I know little about money orders, but I don't see how I could deposit or cash a counterfeiit money order made out to someone else that is stamped on the back with an indication that is has been through a clearing house.
It's almost impossbile to conjure a scenario in which total strangers mailed to me legitimate but cashed money orders. On the other hand, I'm at a loss to understand how the scam would work.
posted by justcorbly at 4:46 PM on June 20, 2009
If it's the type of scam Limeonaire describes, he/she has it EXACTLY! They get YOU to cash orders and "take what you need" and you are (eventually) stuck with the indebtedness. These types of scams are rampant on Craigslist. Turn over to Postal Inspection and AVOID.
Also, you said one of your creditors noticed instances of attempted fraud. I STRONGLY urge you to monitor ALL of your accounts yourself for the time being. You can also call the 3 main credit reporting agencies (Experian, etc.) and have them "flag" your accounts so that NO new credit is allowed to be opened without contacting you first for I believe it is 6 months. PLEASE, PLEASE do this. Someone out there has some type of personal info on you for your issuer to catch it (not to scare you, but several in my family have been through similar things). It can take you months/ years to undo the damage they can do in only a day.
posted by hollygirl at 4:53 PM on June 20, 2009
Also, you said one of your creditors noticed instances of attempted fraud. I STRONGLY urge you to monitor ALL of your accounts yourself for the time being. You can also call the 3 main credit reporting agencies (Experian, etc.) and have them "flag" your accounts so that NO new credit is allowed to be opened without contacting you first for I believe it is 6 months. PLEASE, PLEASE do this. Someone out there has some type of personal info on you for your issuer to catch it (not to scare you, but several in my family have been through similar things). It can take you months/ years to undo the damage they can do in only a day.
posted by hollygirl at 4:53 PM on June 20, 2009
Is it remotely possible that you bought something from these people, paid with a money order, and now they've returned them to you as a sort of receipt or something?
posted by Sys Rq at 8:06 PM on April 7, 2010
posted by Sys Rq at 8:06 PM on April 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by spacefire at 11:44 AM on June 20, 2009 [1 favorite]