Do these letters even mean anything?

May 31, 2009 5:41 PM

I really like this girl. I don't see her regularly, but we write letters to each other, which I thought might have been the start of something more than just friendship. Then she gets into a relationship with some guy, and the letters stop for a while. Then I get another letter. Now what?

We've been friends for a few years now and get on really well together, but I don't see her regularly. However, for the last year, -since I moved out of town- we've been writing letters to each other (old fashioned snail-mail).

Apart from the usual day-to-day stuff, we'd plan what we wanted to do when we met up (typical going-on-a-date stuff, but never calling it a date), and she would always start her letters with "My dearest..." and finish them with "Much love...". These are long multi-page handwritten letters which are pretty rare in this day and age.

I figured if I was merited more than just a hastily typed Facebook message every now and then, I took these letters to mean that she was interested in me as more than just a friend. (Mistake?!)

A short while back, whilst we were still writing letters, I traveled several hundred miles to attend her birthday party. I expressed my feelings that night to her, but she just laughed them off. Since then, her letters have continued the same, and because of her response at the party, and because I lived so far away I didn't let my affections known again.

The letters continued, and we worked out that we would have several weeks when we would both be in the same area with time off. We planned to go out - movies, walks, shopping, even camping. Not plans set in stone, but she texts me to say that she'll let me know asap days when she's free. I plan to tell her my feelings for her again.

Then - nothing. I don't hear from her. No conversations, texts, letters, for weeks. I find out that in that time, she gets a boyfriend. I get pretty upset, but figure that it's not like she knew how much I liked her, and decide to let it be, and try and forget the whole episode.

Until a few days ago, and I get another letter from her. No different from her other letters, and full of plans for what we should do when we meet up again. And still with the "My dearest..." and "much love..."

So I'd like some help in understanding this girl. Do these letters even mean anything? Does she see me as just a friend? Do I reply to this latest letter? If so, what do I write?

I'm well aware that I could have massively got the wrong idea, and thought too much into the letters - but she has confused me. Thanks in advance for your advice.

posted by Petrot to human relations (23 comments total)

This girl is just not that into you.

If she did, she would have responded more strongly when you told her your feelings the first time, not just laugh what you said off.

I suppose she enjoys having someone to whom she can send romantic letters to without the actual danger of this turning into a relationship since you don't live in town. Even if she is not interested in having a relationship with you, she probably enjoys the attention you give her. You are reading too much into "My dearest..." and "Much love..."
posted by peacheater at 5:49 PM on May 31 [13 favorites]

What peacheater said. She sees you as a friend - nothing more. "My dearest..." and "much love" is just quaint and means nothing.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 5:56 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]

I expressed my feelings that night to her, but she just laughed them off.

Remember this?

Yeah. She sees you as a friend. That's it.
posted by canine epigram at 5:58 PM on May 31 [2 favorites]

Talk of alpha males versus beta males makes my skin crawl, but occasionally such analysis seems apposite. This is one of those situations.

Clearly you are the beta male she enjoys being friends with, and your role is limited to friendship. She's looking for alphas for dating and sex.

I traveled several hundred miles to attend her birthday party. I expressed my feelings that night to her, but she just laughed them off.

This is classic beta male behavior.

You're hopelessly stuck in the friend zone. Sorry.
posted by jayder at 6:00 PM on May 31 [10 favorites]

I would just forget about her unless you like getting these letters and all the set-up and dissapointment that comes with them.
posted by amethysts at 6:05 PM on May 31 [1 favorite]

Thanks for the advice. Actually seeing it all written down puts it into a new light for me. It does seem obvious now.

Still, it is nice to get letters instead of bills and junk mail, even if it does mean I'm just a beta male :)
posted by Petrot at 6:11 PM on May 31

Also, this goes both gender ways, just in case that helps. I had a guy like this [more than one, but one main one] who would send me "Dearest Jessamyn" and "all my love" letters, less so when he was dating people. I was sort of keyed up about it for a while but then I realized, he's flirty, likes flirting, was clear about his intentions and I just had to suck it up that the way he liked to communicate wasn't communicating what he was thinking it was [i.e. I am certain he didn't mean to lead me on, but I also don't think he thought about it much] and I could either tell him to stop or recalibrare my "reading letters/email from _______" meter.
posted by jessamyn at 6:20 PM on May 31 [3 favorites]

even if it does mean I'm just a beta male :)

I could have written your question myself, by the way, so closely does it resemble an episode from my own life.
posted by jayder at 6:51 PM on May 31

Relationships I think are scalar. You are at the level where she likes being affectionate and close in a certain way to you. This is not nothing. But you want exclusivity and life-planning, which she does not. You can either enjoy the relationship for what it is or get whiny and stop talking to her. In the mean time, you can be looking for other girls to develop the level of relationship you want. Tell this girl about your travails along this path. Maybe she will become jealous and give you what you want! Turn the tables!
posted by norabarnacl3 at 7:17 PM on May 31

I don't want to be nasty but what norabarnacl3 advises above is the exact opposite of what you should do.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:33 PM on May 31

You're emotional backup for her. And nothing more.
posted by futureisunwritten at 7:42 PM on May 31

I get pretty upset, but figure that it's not like she knew how much I liked her, and decide to let it be, and try and forget the whole episode.

One tricky thing in life is finding the balance between getting mad about things (when maybe you shouldn't) and letting things roll off your back (when maybe you shouldn't). I find people err on one side of the spectrum, or vacillate, until eventually they come around to a sort of third way. The angry people realize that they get nowhere by blaming others and that it's not fair to take out their disappointments on other people, and that they are the only ones who are tasked with making their life what they want. The doormat "nice" people stop putting up with stuff that they shouldn't and stop letting themselves get taken for granted by learning to identify their desires and let them be known in an assertive way, and opting out of putting up with stuff that upsets them, and in other ways actively pursue making their life what they want.

I think you're in the latter camp here, the kind of person who will try ignoring their own needs and emotions in pursuit of a larger goal. This is a pretty good strategy for getting through finals or struggling through grad school, but it has perverse results in relationships. When she stopped making plans with you, even knowing that you have feelings for her, and then got into a relationship with someone else, that was a clear signal. Your body heard it, and got upset. Being upset is your body's alarm bell, telling you that something isn't right. Disabling that alarm bell, forgetting you heard it, and convincing yourself to stay on a sinking ship is not a smart thing to do. Instead, you need to abandon ship. "Okay, this is not working for me. What am I going to do now so I don't get hurt like this more?" You don't have to make a scene, as you know, it's not her fault she's not your [honeymoon voyage or whatever will continue the ship metaphor], but you do have to get on with finding a lifeboat and rowing away. She can always explain what happened and call you back, if it truly was a false alarm.

Sorry if this sounds too presumptuous; I feel like I'm writing to my younger self here, so I might be assuming I know too much about where you're coming from.
posted by salvia at 8:14 PM on May 31 [5 favorites]

I'd start by discarding all the "alpha" and "beta" talk. That way of thinking just puts you in a rut and builds resentment.

You should base your evaluation of the emotional risks you should take based only on two things: (1) her response to gestures of romantic attention; and (2) your evaluation of how much you are actually enjoying this situation.

In that sense, it appears that she has stated she is not interested in you and there are significant portions of the relationship and her behavior that are confusing and vexatious.

I'm a big fan of communicating through action. It appears that her letters cause you some confusion and mixed feelings. Therefore, it is likely that her not writing you or writing you less would reduce your feelings of confusion and anxiety. I think the best way to reduce the number of letters is to stop writing her back. If she calls or texts, respond, but there is no meed for you to respond when she does something you really don't like. This will introduce a lot more of your needs into the your quirky relationship with her.

I think people often want to think of human relationships in a "whose on top" manner. Often, such approaches substitute ease of comprehension for clarity. You are not above her and she is not above you unless that is the way you want to look at it. Instead, it is a lot more complex. First, if what she wants is a feeling of being the object of an admiring man's attentions to make herself feel better as a person, then she's not really getting that from you. Your 'admiration' is strongly influenced by your strong sexual attraction for her. You aren't really giving her what she wants either. She's not getting it from boyfriends or you. Does this mean you are 'above' her? No.Nor is she 'above' you simply because you are more strongly attracted to her than she is to you.

For people who look at the world as "winners" and "losers," it is always feast or famine. They will live a world of a lot of ups and downs. There is nothing wrong with this, but you should know what goes along with the territory and be aware of other ways of looking at things.

One way you could also consider is the "what's in this for me?" method. Are you enjoying this? If not, acknowledge the fact that you are not required to have a relationship like the one she wants either.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:58 PM on May 31 [6 favorites]

Put another way, the strength of a person's feelings are not necessarily an indicator of what kind of feelings they are.
posted by Ironmouth at 9:01 PM on May 31 [2 favorites]

Maybe its too late since "best answers" have already been chosen, but I think she is into you. She writes letters which take time and effort. She wrote again after she was in a relationship with someone. She likes you and does not know how to say it or admit it. Tell her your feelings. Worse case is she rejects you directly. Not that big a deal since you already think she is rejecting you.

You ain't no doormat, you're a gentleman.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:07 PM on May 31

"Much love" is the kiss of death.

And it's not a big investment of time or effort for some people, they just love to write letters. And that's fine. Great. She can send them to her brother.

Quit writing back. Take up the kazoo, go bowling, whatever. But don't be thinking this one is wanting you. She ain't.
posted by dancestoblue at 10:13 PM on May 31

Thanks for the helpful comments - I appreciate them
posted by Petrot at 1:15 AM on June 1

I write letters to a good friend. She's a she, I'm a he. I might start with 'dearest', or I might start with 'Piggle snoutkins' or whatever comes to mind at the time. Most end with 'much love' or something similar. We've talked about marriage and owning coffee shops and living in huts in Argentina together.

Here's the point though- we're not a couple. We never will be. We're good friends, and that's just our particular little dynamic that we have. And it's fine. I'm quite certain that she's not reading anything into these messages, but if she was then she could quite easily draw the conclusions that you are. My point is that these things ('dearest', etc.) don't necessarily mean anything at all, and that if you continue the correspondance then you should make sure you're aware of that.
posted by twirlypen at 5:35 AM on June 1

When I read this comic strip I couldn't laugh, because it hit too close to home.

XKCD

Be nice but not TOO nice.
posted by jstarlee at 6:12 AM on June 1 [3 favorites]

I would not interpret one way or the other in terms of exact phrasing--i always signed emails to my GF way back when with "much love."

Another way to think about whether you're being led on or not has to do with what they do. Lots of little verbal hints "maybe, maybe not" which are completely deniable later on are often the sign of someone leading you on, not wanting you.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:18 AM on June 1

I expressed my feelings that night to her, but she just laughed them off.

Not only is she not interested in you, this is frankly mean and gross. She should have been very blunt with you instead of avoiding the conflict.

God, I can't believe I'm telling this story, but you have to know so you can understand what's really going on here. I had a female friend who told me that she wanted a relationship with me and I said "well I'm seeing someone" and she replied "well what if you break up" and I replied "heh well you live so far away" and she said that she could move, and anyway long story short after a bunch of back-and-forth I ultimately had to say, as much as I knew it would hurt, "I am not attracted to you and I do not want our friendship to ever be anything more."

It was my first instinct to laugh it off, because I have a hard time saying no and I didn't want to hurt anyone. Maybe your friend really thought you both felt the same way - that you can love someone without wanting to be in a relationship.

You don't have to stop being her friend, but don't ever delude yourself into thinking it'll be anything more. It won't. Ever.

She wrote again after she was in a relationship with someone. She likes you and does not know how to say it or admit it. Tell her your feelings. Worse case is she rejects you directly.

He did tell her his feelings, and she rejected him.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:27 AM on June 1 [3 favorites]

I've been there.

Standard answer: if you have made it clear that you're interested in a romantic relationship, and she has not responded favorably, then any evidence you see to the contrary is almost certainly a misinterpretation.

Sucks, but that's how it is.
posted by ixohoxi at 8:24 AM on June 1 [1 favorite]

Still, it is nice to get letters instead of bills and junk mail, even if it does mean I'm just a beta male :)

WRONG.

You are not *objectively* a beta male, merely one in her view. There are other views, and the most important one is your own. If you think of yourself as a beta male, you will be one. Don't ever, ever fall into that trap.
posted by Ryvar at 1:28 PM on June 1 [1 favorite]