Better way to say "datacentre"?
May 28, 2009 3:04 AM Subscribe
Is there a more elegant, grammatical or pedantic way to say "datacentre"? Both words have Latin origins, but there seems to be something clumsy about that combination. Should it be a datumcentre? One word, two words or hyphenated?
Response by poster: But if you house multiple cigarettes in a case, you have a "cigarette case" not a "cigarettes case".
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:48 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by TheophileEscargot at 3:48 AM on May 28, 2009
Now that I think about it, that construction is fairly common in English (callcenter vs callscenter), but it still makes you sound like a pedantic jerk.
posted by pullayup at 3:51 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by pullayup at 3:51 AM on May 28, 2009
Is the problem caused by data being plural versus non-plural?
e.g. in English "The data is..", whereas American English (but also scientists in England) tend to say "The data are.."
You could always say server room :)
posted by devnull at 3:54 AM on May 28, 2009
e.g. in English "The data is..", whereas American English (but also scientists in England) tend to say "The data are.."
You could always say server room :)
posted by devnull at 3:54 AM on May 28, 2009
Best answer: You can look to acquisition for an answer. Without getting into the details, there's a difference between the morphological processes for forming regular and irregular plurals, and these behave differently with respect to compounding. An irregular plural can exist in a compound, as in 'datacenter' or 'mice-infested', but there's no 'cigarettes case' or 'rats-infested'. If you do want the details, here's a description in a linguistics textbook: http://tinyurl.com/qtfc6s
posted by tractorfeed at 3:56 AM on May 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by tractorfeed at 3:56 AM on May 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't have the faintest idea about the grammar or etymology of the term, but I do work for a major international IT company and the form we always use is "data center" if it's an American document, or "data centre" in UK English. Never hypenated, never one word.
posted by Valuev at 3:58 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by Valuev at 3:58 AM on May 28, 2009
Re your cigarette example, I would say "drinks cabinet" or "clothes drawer" for things that store multiple drinks and items of clothing respectively.
posted by lucidium at 4:00 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by lucidium at 4:00 AM on May 28, 2009
Response by poster: Is the problem caused by data being plural versus non-plural?
Well, I was thinking there might some way to combine a Latin infinitive into a darecentre or something, but I'm being told elsewhere that you don't combine Latin words that way.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:03 AM on May 28, 2009
Well, I was thinking there might some way to combine a Latin infinitive into a darecentre or something, but I'm being told elsewhere that you don't combine Latin words that way.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:03 AM on May 28, 2009
Best answer: IANALinguist, but I'd think examining "data" outside its English domain will not help you answer any real linguistic question. In the interest of your exercise, datorum centrum = a fixed point of gifts (lit. items having been given) to your Latin-English amalgam of datorum centre = a center of gifts, with other variations as well, e.g. centrumdantis = place of giving. There wouldn't have been spaces between the words of the original Latin text either way, but word division within a text can become quite liberal.
posted by palionex at 4:24 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by palionex at 4:24 AM on May 28, 2009
Response by poster: "Centrumdantis" satisfies the elegance criterion very well! Mellifluous and not even any more syllables.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:49 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:49 AM on May 28, 2009
Data is both singular and plural. Anyone claiming otherwise doesn't understand linguistics or language. Datacenter is correct, while datumcenter is not. Look in a dictionary if you disagree.
posted by smorange at 5:01 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by smorange at 5:01 AM on May 28, 2009
Is there an example of anything that is both pedantic and elegant?
posted by bensherman at 5:21 AM on May 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by bensherman at 5:21 AM on May 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Datacenter", being American spelling, sounds less royal/snooty. This isn't a jab at Brits, just a general association Americans have with English accents/spelling.
posted by dunkadunc at 5:23 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 5:23 AM on May 28, 2009
Is there a more elegant, grammatical or pedantic way to say "datacentre"?
Because no one will know what you mean, the answer is no.
posted by oaf at 5:32 AM on May 28, 2009
Because no one will know what you mean, the answer is no.
posted by oaf at 5:32 AM on May 28, 2009
Response by poster: But I think in both English and American there's an awkward half-rhyme between data and centre/center, which contributes to the ugliness of the word. A rentercentre would be fine, as would a datacrater.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:36 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by TheophileEscargot at 5:36 AM on May 28, 2009
Outside of New England, Americans don't pronounce an "r" sound at the end of "data, but we do pronounce the "r" at the end of "center". Hence, no rhyme, half or otherwise. Frankly, I think datacenter is perfectly mellifluous, but that's irrelevent: the be all to end all of this is that datacenter is the word we use for a big place that stores servers and such, and if you call it something else, no one will understand you (as oaf pointed out). Stop trying to be a prescriptivist.
posted by The Michael The at 6:06 AM on May 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by The Michael The at 6:06 AM on May 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm going to assume that perhaps the OP isn't actually looking for the grammatically correct term, but rather a more creative term? In that case maybe there's some clarification needed... otherwise, yes, there's just some prescriptivism going on (gotta admit, I had to look that word up).
posted by Valuev at 6:22 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by Valuev at 6:22 AM on May 28, 2009
To make my last comment clear: maybe the OP deliberately does not want people to understand what he/she is talking about, and thus is looking for a different term.
Okay I'm going to stop posting now.
posted by Valuev at 6:25 AM on May 28, 2009
Okay I'm going to stop posting now.
posted by Valuev at 6:25 AM on May 28, 2009
Response by poster: Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm looking for alternatives to "datacenter" that are either more elegant, or more grammatically correct, or both.
This originated in a conversation elsewhere that started with a discussion on whether it should be "data centre", "data-centre" or "data centre", after which someone mentioned that something feels wrong about the phrase itself.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:01 AM on May 28, 2009
This originated in a conversation elsewhere that started with a discussion on whether it should be "data centre", "data-centre" or "data centre", after which someone mentioned that something feels wrong about the phrase itself.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 7:01 AM on May 28, 2009
Re your cigarette example, I would say "drinks cabinet" or "clothes drawer" for things that store multiple drinks and items of clothing respectively.
I'm not sure about drinks cabinet, but in clothes drawer, clothes is an irregular plural and thus an example of what tractorfeed was talking about.
posted by peacheater at 7:04 AM on May 28, 2009
I'm not sure about drinks cabinet, but in clothes drawer, clothes is an irregular plural and thus an example of what tractorfeed was talking about.
posted by peacheater at 7:04 AM on May 28, 2009
When you say grammatically correct, do you mean in Latin or in English?
posted by smackfu at 7:11 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by smackfu at 7:11 AM on May 28, 2009
Best answer: Well, you may not like the (unequivocal) rhyme, but "info-depot" has its charms.
posted by kittyprecious at 7:24 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by kittyprecious at 7:24 AM on May 28, 2009
> the form we always use is "data center" if it's an American document, or "data centre" in UK English. Never hypenated, never one word.
This is correct. Two words.
> examining "data" outside its English domain will not help you answer any real linguistic question.
This is also correct. English is complicated enough without trying to make it fit the rules of Latin or any other language. (It's OK to say "the Alhambra" even though al- means 'the' in Arabic, for example.)
posted by languagehat at 8:54 AM on May 28, 2009
This is correct. Two words.
> examining "data" outside its English domain will not help you answer any real linguistic question.
This is also correct. English is complicated enough without trying to make it fit the rules of Latin or any other language. (It's OK to say "the Alhambra" even though al- means 'the' in Arabic, for example.)
posted by languagehat at 8:54 AM on May 28, 2009
Well, I was thinking there might some way to combine a Latin infinitive into a darecentre or something, but I'm being told elsewhere that you don't combine Latin words that way.
1) I have no clue why you are trying to use the verb form of datum/data. In Latin, it's also understood as a noun. And since we're using it in a noun context, stop trying to work the infinitive in.
2) A datacenter that contains just one piece of datum is pretty useless. So the singular version, beyond being non-standard usage, is just plain silly in concept.
3) Where I'm from, data and center don't even come close to rhyming. For most Americans I don't think they rhyme, but IANAL(inguist).
posted by sbutler at 9:13 AM on May 28, 2009
1) I have no clue why you are trying to use the verb form of datum/data. In Latin, it's also understood as a noun. And since we're using it in a noun context, stop trying to work the infinitive in.
2) A datacenter that contains just one piece of datum is pretty useless. So the singular version, beyond being non-standard usage, is just plain silly in concept.
3) Where I'm from, data and center don't even come close to rhyming. For most Americans I don't think they rhyme, but IANAL(inguist).
posted by sbutler at 9:13 AM on May 28, 2009
Response by poster: Just curious, languagehat, what's the basis for it being two words? The single word option seems to be more popular: I would have expected you to opt for the most common usage.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:23 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:23 AM on May 28, 2009
Best answer: Well, it's complicated. There's always a tension between popular usage and tradition, and tradition is particularly powerful when it comes to spelling (which includes word division). There is a strong tendency in English for frequently used phrases to get joined into words (thus base ball became base-ball became baseball), but written usage (especially edited writing) is always going to lag behind spoken usage (which reveals the number of words by stress patterns). When "datacenter" shows up in Merriam-Webster as a single word, I'll happily acknowledge it; until then, as a copyeditor by trade I'll keep it two.
posted by languagehat at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2009
posted by languagehat at 10:16 AM on May 28, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by pullayup at 3:45 AM on May 28, 2009