Would you hire a new assistant professor from another field?
May 22, 2009 2:00 PM Subscribe
What are the chances that I will be able to get a job outside of my discipline following completion of the PhD?
I am currently in a top 25 PhD program studying sociology. Unfortunately, I find myself increasingly dissatisfied with the direction of the discipline and the substantive topics that seem to draw the most praise and get published in the top journals. I find myself drawn more to political science topics (specifically comparative politics) and am wondering what my chances are of getting a job in a decent political science department with a sociology PhD? Assume that my research is inter-disciplinary, methodologically sophisticated, that I am far enough along that switching/transferring is not an attractive option, that I have a very supportive dissertation committee that shares many of my views, and that I have some pretty good publications in the pipeline.
I know that many people have courtesy appointments across both departments and that certain prominent sociologists actually have political science PhDs (e.g., David Meyer at UCI). I just don't know that I've seen anyone go the opposite direction.
I'm not that interested in hearing about experiences from outside of the social sciences because I feel this is fairly discipline specific. I feel somewhat confident that I could get a job in an interdisciplinary department such as international studies or something, but I'm curious about political science specifically.
I am currently in a top 25 PhD program studying sociology. Unfortunately, I find myself increasingly dissatisfied with the direction of the discipline and the substantive topics that seem to draw the most praise and get published in the top journals. I find myself drawn more to political science topics (specifically comparative politics) and am wondering what my chances are of getting a job in a decent political science department with a sociology PhD? Assume that my research is inter-disciplinary, methodologically sophisticated, that I am far enough along that switching/transferring is not an attractive option, that I have a very supportive dissertation committee that shares many of my views, and that I have some pretty good publications in the pipeline.
I know that many people have courtesy appointments across both departments and that certain prominent sociologists actually have political science PhDs (e.g., David Meyer at UCI). I just don't know that I've seen anyone go the opposite direction.
I'm not that interested in hearing about experiences from outside of the social sciences because I feel this is fairly discipline specific. I feel somewhat confident that I could get a job in an interdisciplinary department such as international studies or something, but I'm curious about political science specifically.
Just in my limited experience, as a fellow PhD student (in political science), I would say your chances are pretty slim. Perhaps a smaller liberal arts school might be more willing to do a joint appointment if you could teach in both subfields. I would say that an interdisciplinary program would be much more likely, as a starting place. It depends on your interest within comparative - development? race/ethnicity? Personally, I study race/ethnicity and urban politics, so I happen to do alot of research that falls more broadly across sociology and economics, than just political science, but some comparative work is more insular, but not all.
To improve your chances, try to get teaching experience in political science - as a TA or whatever your school calls it. Also, see if your in the pipeline publications can be published in journals that tend to be read by political scientists. Try to add a political scientist whose research is aligned with yours to your committee.
posted by quodlibet at 3:42 PM on May 22, 2009
To improve your chances, try to get teaching experience in political science - as a TA or whatever your school calls it. Also, see if your in the pipeline publications can be published in journals that tend to be read by political scientists. Try to add a political scientist whose research is aligned with yours to your committee.
posted by quodlibet at 3:42 PM on May 22, 2009
I would try to find a post-doc in a PolySci dept or even better at a research institute (like a think tank or the like) where you do some cross-disciplinary research and publishing. It could work out really well: by bringing a different method and/or skillset to a new field you could do some splashy, worthwhile things. The thing is that you have to publish this during your postdoc for any hiring committees to think that you're worth the chance to hire you in a PolySci dept.
posted by overhauser at 3:54 PM on May 22, 2009
posted by overhauser at 3:54 PM on May 22, 2009
I am a sociologist, and I do interdisciplinary work, and I'm coming from an MA in International Development Studies. As a sociologist, I would want to check to see that you are aware of the breadth that sociology actually has to offer. Do not assume that what you are seeing in your own PhD program is the field. For example, you may be in a traditional, narrow, competitive school, and while that may provide many benefits, it can also provide blind spots (this is true of every school).
Many sociology departments welcome politically inclined folks, for example in development studies, or comparative political economy. Are you so sure that you can't do exactly what you want to do but call it soc? For example, my dissertation was an examination of the Costa Rican banana industry, and included substantial components of international political economy, and the theoretical framing was from World Systems theory. This was a soc dissertation.
Do you really care what is going on in the so-called top journals? Why? There are many many forums, journals, and conferences for sociology, political economy, comparative studies, development studies that a PhD in soc can access, but without changing official disciplines. What you need is an academic community, that is active, and that you feel a part of and engaged by. Don't worry what that community is, or whether they're in top journals or whatever.
Would you be interested in a more interdisciplinary department? One which would hire you because you had the background and interest in both politics with a soc background?
I do not think it is likely that you would be hired in a straight poli-sci department. I teach at a small liberal arts school, and you would not even be hired here in poli sci (within the department of social science).
I do not see any reason why you wouldn't be able to get work in an interdisciplinary department (eg area studies?), or at a smaller school (eg liberal arts) but in soc where each member of the department covers a broad range of courses, including ones that are more politically oriented (this is what I do). In this case you must be willing to teach core soc courses as well, but then you can do your research on whatever you want.
You could also find a straight soc department, which has a strong political or comparative leaning, where you could pursue your interests but still in soc. However, if you are unwilling to teach core soc courses, then you will likely have a challenge on your hands, as most departments would require this.
Feel free to Memail or email me (see profile) if you want to bounce some ideas around more directly and specifically.
posted by kch at 4:28 PM on May 22, 2009
Many sociology departments welcome politically inclined folks, for example in development studies, or comparative political economy. Are you so sure that you can't do exactly what you want to do but call it soc? For example, my dissertation was an examination of the Costa Rican banana industry, and included substantial components of international political economy, and the theoretical framing was from World Systems theory. This was a soc dissertation.
Do you really care what is going on in the so-called top journals? Why? There are many many forums, journals, and conferences for sociology, political economy, comparative studies, development studies that a PhD in soc can access, but without changing official disciplines. What you need is an academic community, that is active, and that you feel a part of and engaged by. Don't worry what that community is, or whether they're in top journals or whatever.
Would you be interested in a more interdisciplinary department? One which would hire you because you had the background and interest in both politics with a soc background?
I do not think it is likely that you would be hired in a straight poli-sci department. I teach at a small liberal arts school, and you would not even be hired here in poli sci (within the department of social science).
I do not see any reason why you wouldn't be able to get work in an interdisciplinary department (eg area studies?), or at a smaller school (eg liberal arts) but in soc where each member of the department covers a broad range of courses, including ones that are more politically oriented (this is what I do). In this case you must be willing to teach core soc courses as well, but then you can do your research on whatever you want.
You could also find a straight soc department, which has a strong political or comparative leaning, where you could pursue your interests but still in soc. However, if you are unwilling to teach core soc courses, then you will likely have a challenge on your hands, as most departments would require this.
Feel free to Memail or email me (see profile) if you want to bounce some ideas around more directly and specifically.
posted by kch at 4:28 PM on May 22, 2009
The political science market (indeed all job markets) are tight right now. I can only speak for my own department, but we would be very unlikely to look seriously at a file from a different discipline. One question that you might want to consider yourself is why you need to be in a political science department in order to pursue the research that you want to do. Do you believe that sociologists will not reward your efforts? I find that departments are very accepting of cross-disciplinary research. Indeed, most schools have interdisciplinary workshops to support just what you're interested in. Audit political science classes, co-author with their people, and do innovative work. Courtesy appointments are typically earned over the course of a career; they're not something you receive right out of the gate. And, there are significant drawbacks to dual appointments. It's difficult to serve two masters.
posted by B-squared at 4:30 PM on May 22, 2009
posted by B-squared at 4:30 PM on May 22, 2009
At my university the odds would be zero for a variety of reasons, some bureaucratic, some cultural. Academics are notorious for pissing out the perimeters of their turf. I have seen many interesting people tossed off short lists because they don't conform to the canons of the discipline. You are better off looking for jobs in departments that are interdisciplinary by design. If you are interested in a particular part of the world, area studies departments fit this bill.
posted by Crotalus at 5:43 PM on May 22, 2009
posted by Crotalus at 5:43 PM on May 22, 2009
Have you considered publishing yourself into the field you would like to work in? Go in now as a doctoral student researching X (and Y if you still do not know what you want to do) and get settled while asking a lot of questions. See if relationships can form and keep them abreast of your research and then when the dissertation comes out, you can do three articles and get it published in a non-refereed industry journal and then transition into the field as either a consultant or an internal role.
If you need some ideas of where to send your resume to, you can mefi mail me.
posted by parmanparman at 11:51 PM on May 22, 2009
If you need some ideas of where to send your resume to, you can mefi mail me.
posted by parmanparman at 11:51 PM on May 22, 2009
You have a tiny chance of a teaching position in sociology, and zero chance of one in political science. I'm sorry, it's just a completely awful proposition to be hitting the teaching market right now, and the fact that all the others competing for political science spots will actually have a Ph.D. in political science is fatal to your hopes. This is probably the worst year to be applying for university teaching jobs in the history of the United States.
The odds are overwhelming that you'll be supporting yourself outside of academia. Go ahead, be stubborn and pursue the faculty jobs -- but you had damned well better have a good Plan B, too.
posted by gum at 12:21 AM on May 23, 2009
The odds are overwhelming that you'll be supporting yourself outside of academia. Go ahead, be stubborn and pursue the faculty jobs -- but you had damned well better have a good Plan B, too.
posted by gum at 12:21 AM on May 23, 2009
Actually, since gum decided to lay it out there, I want to return to your question and give you the advice I'd give anyone in your shoes right now. I've been involved in hiring assistant professors in the social sciences for ten years at a large state university. This will be the first year since I arrived that I won't be on a search committee, and its because we have a hiring freeze. The availability of tenure track lines waxes and wanes with the economic and political times, but what we're experiencing now is qualitatively different from anything I've ever seen. Things are bad. Fucking bad. I can't imagine a return to business as usual any time soon, if ever.
If I were in grad school all over again, I would latch on to the professor in my department with the most placement power and begin a research program in one of the field's "bread and butter" subdisciplines. I'd use quantitative methodologies, and I'd work on something relevant to policy or applied sociology. On top of that, I'd work hard to get some good teaching experience. I'd develop quality curriculum materials that I could put in my job packets to show that I'm serious about quality teaching. I would try and find a way to teach research methods and statistics. Every grad student at a "top 25" program thinks they are going to get a job at an R1 when they finish. If your department is closer to 25 than to 1, I'd bet heavily against you. Get the edge on the people that are too shortsighted to work on their teaching. Your mentors will not want you to spend time perfecting your teaching. Ignore them. If you were going to get a job like theirs, you wouldn't be posting this question.
An academic career is long. What I was hired to is not remotely like what I do now. What I teach is different; what I write is different. If you want a career in academia in this shitty economy, taking what you can get now and turning it into what you want it to be down the road is far more likely than molding yourself to fit a job that ain't out there. You may get hired to do medical sociology, or aging or whatever, but the second you arrive you can start moonlighting as the "comparative politics" person. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
P.S. Don't automatically assume that your mentors know anything about the current state of the job market. I received a steady stream of terrible advice from my famous dissertation chair.
posted by Crotalus at 1:25 AM on May 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
If I were in grad school all over again, I would latch on to the professor in my department with the most placement power and begin a research program in one of the field's "bread and butter" subdisciplines. I'd use quantitative methodologies, and I'd work on something relevant to policy or applied sociology. On top of that, I'd work hard to get some good teaching experience. I'd develop quality curriculum materials that I could put in my job packets to show that I'm serious about quality teaching. I would try and find a way to teach research methods and statistics. Every grad student at a "top 25" program thinks they are going to get a job at an R1 when they finish. If your department is closer to 25 than to 1, I'd bet heavily against you. Get the edge on the people that are too shortsighted to work on their teaching. Your mentors will not want you to spend time perfecting your teaching. Ignore them. If you were going to get a job like theirs, you wouldn't be posting this question.
An academic career is long. What I was hired to is not remotely like what I do now. What I teach is different; what I write is different. If you want a career in academia in this shitty economy, taking what you can get now and turning it into what you want it to be down the road is far more likely than molding yourself to fit a job that ain't out there. You may get hired to do medical sociology, or aging or whatever, but the second you arrive you can start moonlighting as the "comparative politics" person. Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
P.S. Don't automatically assume that your mentors know anything about the current state of the job market. I received a steady stream of terrible advice from my famous dissertation chair.
posted by Crotalus at 1:25 AM on May 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
One way that you could try is to get into some poli sci conferences and do very well at them... but I think that Crotalus is right.
posted by k8t at 8:46 AM on May 24, 2009
posted by k8t at 8:46 AM on May 24, 2009
Late, but I'll agree that your odds are near zero.
If you wanted to, the thing to do would be to immediately start presenting at APSA, MPSA, and other PS conferences, submitting to PS journals. Preferably from your position as an assistant professor of sociology somewhere.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:27 PM on May 24, 2009
If you wanted to, the thing to do would be to immediately start presenting at APSA, MPSA, and other PS conferences, submitting to PS journals. Preferably from your position as an assistant professor of sociology somewhere.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:27 PM on May 24, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
(I work for an organization that gives career advice to social science academics. This is the advice I've heard given to students who are trying to leave their disciplines or subdisciplines.)
posted by decathecting at 2:09 PM on May 22, 2009