Bad coffee brew

May 12, 2009 3:37 PM

Weird coffee question for baristas or home espresso machine owners: I decalcified my machine the other day and then got sick a couple of days later. Coincidence or connection? More inside:

I've a five-year-old Francis Francis machine that had never been decalcified. It started acting up. I called customer support; they told me to get a decalcifier product called Durgol and run it through the machine. I did this, and then, when finished ran four or five cycles (tanks of water) through the machine too, wanting any residue gone. Made coffee as usual once machine was working again -- which it was. Problem was that a day and a half later I felt ill -- fluish, glands slightly swollen. My low back was killing me (which always signals kidney and or bladder trouble for me -- at least it has in the past). My question: what sort of shit is in the decalcifier? Is it dangerous? Francis Francis told me it's safe and 'citrus-based' but, well, I'd like to hear from a more objective source.

posted by zenpop to health & fitness (8 comments total)

Based on information I read here I've been able to surmise that Durgol is an acid. They just don't specify which acid or at what concentration. Anyway, 4-5 flushes of water is plenty to get rid of an acid and I would be extremely surprised if there was something leftover in the machine after that. Additionally, if there was, I think it's pretty unlikely to cause illness, and were it to cause illness, being exposed to acids generally don't cause you to feel flu-like.
posted by sickinthehead at 3:51 PM on May 12

Info (PDF).

On the one hand, "Harmful if swallowed or in contact with eyes or skin. Do not swallow. Avoid contact with eyes or skin."

On the other hand, "durgol® swiss espresso® leaves no chemical residue after decalcification and rinsing. durgol® swiss espresso® is odorless and leaves no taste."

This is the MSDS on the active ingredient, amidosulfonic acid, aka sulfamic acid. It causes more "normal" poisoning symptoms: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. And the Purgol is only 15%.

I think it's most likely you have the flu.
posted by smackfu at 3:52 PM on May 12

I've used Durgol and not had any problem. Sorry that this happened to you. Running as much water as you did through the machine seems to have been the correct thing...here's some info on the actual product.
posted by ms.jones at 3:52 PM on May 12

Check out ACToR. Put in the chemical name or CAS# (5329-14-6 for sulfamic acid). I can't figure out how to directly link to the chemical info. The food toxicity states:

"It seems most unlikely that more than minute amounts of sulfamic acid might occasionally enter foods by migration or abrasion from packaging materials. The acute toxicity of sulfamic acid is relatively low; it does not appear to be metabolized but is exc"

I'm guessing that last bit is supposed to be "excreted." Maybe your body can't get rid of it so quick? I don't know much about physiology, or what sort what sort of kidney troubles you would have to have. The toxicology section shows a study that rendered a LD50 of 3160 mg/kg for sulfamic acid. That's that dose it took to kill 50% of the rats in the study. 500 mg or less is usually the LD50 required for something to be listed as 'toxic' in an MSDS. Even if you've got a small amount of the stuff still hanging around in your body, it's unlikely that it'll do much harm.

The ingredients page also lists silicon oxide polymers in addition to water. Probably in minuscule amounts.
posted by Mister Cheese at 4:22 PM on May 12

Anecdotal support: "regular" cleaning products like Cafiza or Puro-Caff are flushed at normal concentration after two cycles, with agitation. I've never chemically de-calcified a machine using the water supply, having only used commercial machines with outboard filtration and compressors, but even those (fairly serious, pH basic) products won't hang around after four cycles.

I'd say it's unrelated to the Durgol— did you use other cleaning products on other parts of the machine while you cleaned/flushed it?
posted by a halcyon day at 5:44 PM on May 12

I've used the Durgol product in a DeLonghi automatic espresso machine at least three times, rinsed according to the instructions and never noticed any of the symptoms you're describing, so... flu.
posted by abulafa at 7:21 PM on May 12

There is a remote chance they could be related, in my opinion.

You mention kidney and bladder difficulties; this answer is much more likely to apply to you if you have a history of recurrent kidney problems, especially calcium oxalate stones.

In the first place, it's interesting Francis Francis told you Durgol is citrus-based. It's not, apparently, but citric acid is the standard decalcifier for espresso machines. It is also a recommended dietary supplement for the prevention of kidney stones. In both cases, its efficacy is due to an ability to dissolve calcium deposits-- calcium oxalate in the case of kidney stones, calcium scale in the case of espresso machines.

The active ingredient of Durgol, sulfamic acid, is evidently more powerful than citric acid in dissolving calcium scale, and probably would also be very effective in dissolving kidney stones if it could get to them, and thanks to Mister Cheese's answer, we know that it is excreted unchanged, probably via the kidneys, so if you ingested any and have kidney stones they were probably exposed to it.

As you may have heard, there is a controversial theory that maintains pathogenic bacteria are hiding out in kidney stones, rather like clams in their shells.

If this is true, ingesting Durgol could be expected to dissolve kidney stones and bring pathogenic bacteria inside them to the attention of the immune system. The reaction of the immune system to previously hidden pathogenic bacteria could cause flu-like symptoms such as you experienced.

However, you did rinse your machine out several times, and it's hard to see how you could have been exposed to much sulfamic acid-- unless your machine was so gunked up that all the scale was not removed by a single treatment, and a bunch of scale was left, now saturated with sulfamic acid, and when you made coffee, the extra acidity of the coffee dissolved away some of the sulfamic acid containing scale, causing you to ingest a significant amount of it.
posted by jamjam at 1:27 AM on May 13

Wow, fascinating responses. 'a halcyon day', no, I didn't use any other products.

'jamjam''s comment is fascinating. And I have had a history of kidney stones -- tho, thankfully, many years ago.

Again, thanks metafolk, this was helpful.
posted by zenpop at 12:37 PM on May 13