You never write ...you never call

May 5, 2009 11:15 PM

..Advice please? My grown stepchildren NEVER invite us to their houses...NEVER

I am a significant other..and have been for going on ten years. I have no children of my own. My S.O. has three grown children. One was married last year and the other two have committed relationships (they also have significant others). For ten years I have hosted zillions of functions at our house. Birthdays and holidays out the ying yang. It has been expensive and a lot of work. A whole new year of holidays is looming...but I am very very tired of hosting. Recently my s.o.'s daughter bought a house. She has not yet invited us over to see the place!! My s.o's children seldom call and if they do it is usually because they want something (for example the daughter needed a small loan to get into the house).
It is clear that these adult children are very busy like all people in their 30's are...but can you tell me what you would do in my place? I try not to complain about these youngsters..but I have noticed that all my hosting has not made them any closer to me...and that all they seem to care about is presents and money. They honestly don't seem to give a fig about us. Advice?

posted by naplesyellow to human relations (78 answers total)

Have you called them and asked to come by? They honestly may not have thought to invite you, since they are so used to coming to your place. Why not give your stepdaughter a call and ask when would be a good time to come "see the new place?"
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:23 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]

Have you asked directly? As in "Darling stepdaughter, I'm dying to see your new place, from your descriptions it sounds lovely. When can we come over?"

As far as the holidays go, delegate. Tell the kids that you'd like to retire as host, pass the mantle onto them and you're looking forward to seeing them run with it.

They honestly don't seem to give a fig about us.

Now don't go thinking that just yet. It's your responsibility to communicate your needs. I find the least amount of interpersonal friction comes from avoiding mindreading/expecting others to read mine.
posted by jamaro at 11:24 PM on May 5, 2009 [8 favorites]

I am a grown stepchild. Gotta say, I never invite my dad and step-mom, but they're both awesome and my household and friends love it when they come to visit. They just ask, and it works for us just fine.
posted by aniola at 11:29 PM on May 5, 2009

Where us = me & my dad and step-mom.
posted by aniola at 11:30 PM on May 5, 2009

As a married 20 something with a step dad I have invited them to see our new house but never considered inviting them over for a high holiday even through we love to entertain because I didn't want to take over their (mom and fake dad's or for that matter my inlaws's) "thing". If they ever hinted that they were interested in celebrating chez nous I'd be shopping for a new dining set so fast your head'ed spin!
posted by saradarlin at 11:33 PM on May 5, 2009 [1 favorite]

do you know if they host any sorts of events? do they have their friends over? what is the relationship with their mother like? what caused the split between their parents? were you there for the split or did you show up later? what does their father feel about this? how is their relationship with their father just in general? do they lack the resources to host something, especially when it seems you have standards you like for hosted events (i mean, if they're calling for loans, maybe they can't spend a lot of money and they feel like it's what you expect). are you critical of their dress, cooking, S.O's, or general housekeeping?

there are really too many questions on the table to answer your "why don't they invite us over" question.

if you're sick of hosting things - stop. just realize it might mean the end of the gatherings. maybe they're just doing the holiday stuff to make you happy and would rather not have big get togethers if they had their druthers.
posted by nadawi at 11:42 PM on May 5, 2009 [6 favorites]

If you don't ask, you don't get. There is no point in just sitting there feeling offended without trying to change what's happening.

Ask if one of them would like to host a holiday. Ask when you'll get to see the new house. Ask for what you want.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:52 PM on May 5, 2009 [3 favorites]

I'm an adult child of a father and step-mother. I don't consider her my step-mother as much as I do my "dad's wife". I don't feel a particular affinity for the woman, but I don't hate her either. But I know if I invite my dad, she's expected to come, which I don't particularly prefer, so I don't do the inviting. They have been married around ten years as well, but I don't consider her family at all, as opposed to my mom's husband (my step-dad) who has been married to her for almost 20 years, and with whom I grew up and consider family. Think of it like a friend who has a boy/girlfriend that you don't want to hang out with, so you never invite the friend over because there is the expectation that the S.O. will come too. I hate to sound harsh, but have you considered that they just don't like you very much? Perhaps you should just not have that high of standards for the kids.
posted by greta simone at 12:08 AM on May 6, 2009 [5 favorites]

Maybe they your stepchildren don't entertain--don't know how/don't think of it/weren't brought up to do these things naturally/too busy. What about doing potluck at your house for the holiday gatherings from now on? Assign appetizers, side dishes, desserts, wines and you handle the main course. Then ask around the table at the end of each course for people to help clear the table. That would save you time and money. Agree with others that it's fine to ask about dropping by now and then.
posted by Elsie at 12:11 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Think of it like a friend who has a boy/girlfriend that you don't want to hang out with, so you never invite the friend over because there is the expectation that the S.O. will come too. I hate to sound harsh, but have you considered that they just don't like you very much? Perhaps you should just not have that high of standards for the kids.

I won't even hint at which of my relations' SOs I feel this way toward. But, it's a distinct possibility in this situation.

There are lots of really charitable guesses upthread. And one of them sounds like my reason for rarely inviting the inlaws over (especially for holidays): their expectations in accommodation appear higher than I usually feel I can meet.

But, as everybody always harps in these sorts of threads: ask for what you waht. The worst that can happen is they say no, and you're back exactly where you are now.
posted by Netzapper at 12:56 AM on May 6, 2009

They've probably never been grown up step children before. They probably don't realise that they should be iniviting you over. Talk to them.
posted by devnull at 1:11 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

all they seem to care about is presents and money. They honestly don't seem to give a fig about us. Advice?

Stop giving the spoiled little brats presents and money for a start.

How recently did your step-daughter buy her house? Maybe she isn't ready for guests yet. If she's really busy/lazy/disorganised she might not have finished unpacking yet. If you're far enough away that you'd need a place to stay overnight, it could be that she just doesn't have the room. It could also be that she doesn't feel you need an invite, if you have the address you can visit any time you like.

I've never invited my parents to my home either, they've popped over a few times for various reasons but they weren't ever specifically invited. I always have my birthday at their house because their house is a beautiful palace in comparison to the tiny little dump I live in.

If you don't want to host their birthday parties, you're not obligated to. They're adults with their own houses and if you don't want to do it (particularly if they're as ungrateful as they sound) then don't do it.
posted by missmagenta at 1:13 AM on May 6, 2009

wow..you guys are great..! This is my first question here (I did search to see if one like it had been asked before). I sure didn't expect to check back and see that there were so many replies already!
Thanks!

The answers are pretty much as I thought they might be..I did expect to see things like "do a potluck" etc. I even expected the "they might not like you" answer. Frankly, I don't know what is not to like..I don't have children that compete for attention and I think I have been as nice as pie to them...but of course, I can see that maybe it is just a matter of they like the Mom best (of course).

I don't know what I expected to hear from you all..I bet I didn't really expect any "solid" answers ..I might have just asked it to see if anyone would throw someone out that I haven't thought of. I guess in a way I am just sort of venting..I mean, how can anyone really answer such a question. It is pretty vast subject..isn't it?

They seem like such a selfish boorish lot to me..very concerned with their own "thing". I can try to win them over (but it really feels like I am tilting at windmills to try) ...or I can just put the brakes on all the hostessing. All these family parties...I've done it for their Dad. Here is an example of more of their thoughtlessness....He has worked hard all his life (in a boring job) and last summer he had his first solo photography show. A really big deal to him. I made sure I sent emails and reminders that emphasized that it was important to him. Get this...his children did not come! Oh, they would have liked to ...but they were just too busy.

As time goes on and we get more and more ignored I feel less and less like "doing" anything about the situation. I doubt that I will call the daughter to ask when we can come over (though I thank you for recommending it). She's over 30 years old. I figure she knows that that is up to her. Oh, by the way, she did call and tell her Dad that she would like a gift certificate from Lowes for her birthday.

I feel sorry for my s.o.'s stepchildren. They are very thoughtless and self absorbed and s.o. is a very fine man who they will miss one day. Thanks for listening! I am really amazed that so many of you took the time to craft such nice answers. I probably still host Father's day..and see if they notice that ......that's it!
posted by naplesyellow at 1:14 AM on May 6, 2009

oops...typo ...I meant to say I feel sorry for my s.o.'s children (not stepchildren).
posted by naplesyellow at 1:25 AM on May 6, 2009

maybe they sense that you don't like them. i certainly wouldn't go out of my way to spend time with someone who constantly reminded me about everything my father had done for me and how ungrateful i was about it.
posted by nadawi at 1:40 AM on May 6, 2009 [12 favorites]

Ouch, nadawi, so that hit close to home did it?

I did not get the impression from the poster that she does this.

I get the impression that the Father and you have been bending over backwards to show these children that everything is fine, nothing needs to change as a result of the new stepMom & relationship. But guys, it's been 10 years!!! Enough already, they are now independent adults still being treated by you guys as dependent kids to the extent you are helping them financially.

Don't go into the past wrongs but do set some new rules. Tell them you'd like them to start hosting events. Your partner seems very absent in this post, is he scared he'll never see his kids again if for a change they are expected to act like fully grown adults?
posted by kairab at 2:11 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

does this hit close to home? yes. i won't deny that.

but i based my comment on the posters comments, specifically:

"My s.o's children seldom call and if they do it is usually because they want something"
"They seem like such a selfish boorish lot to me..very concerned with their own "thing".
"she did call and tell her Dad that she would like a gift certificate from Lowes for her birthday."
"They are very thoughtless and self absorbed"

as i, and many other posters tried to get the poster to give any details at all and she declined to answer basically all of those questions and instead came back with more martyr syndrome stuff that's all i could go on.

here, let me try this again, here is what i was trying to get at with my questions -

you say you have no kids. are your parents divorced? do you understand what it's like to be part of a family system and then one day for that to be gone, and for in it's place is this new "parent" who has a host of expectations that you don't even know about because she refuses to tell you about them?

it's very hard for some people, especially the adult children of divorce. with absolutely no details about your history with them or their father we can't really answer why they won't extend an invitation to you.

...of course, you admit that you don't want an answer and just came here to vent.
posted by nadawi at 2:28 AM on May 6, 2009 [6 favorites]

I even expected the "they might not like you" answer. Frankly, I don't know what is not to like..

You may well be a completely flawless stepmom, but in this thread, you come across as very critical of your stepchildren. (See nadawi's answer above for examples). You don't seem to like them much, and more importantly for them, you don't seem to respect them.

Isn't it possible that your stepchildren sense this, and have doubts about whether inviting you into their homes would be a pleasant experience, for you or for them? Will you criticise their hosting abilities? Their cooking? Their decor? Their choice of partner? Will you be overly negative or outspoken at the dinner table while your stepchildren cringe and shoot each other awkward glances? Will you embarrass them in front of their friends or partners? Will you outstay your welcome?

I have no idea how you would behave if you were allowed to visit them at home, but the point is, maybe they don't know either. There are people who I would gladly visit, but whom I'd be reluctant to invite into my home for many of the reasons above.

Maybe you could start by asking for a very low-key visit. Build in a time limit and make sure the expectations are low on both sides. For example, say in the area on Saturday - you have to visit a friend at 4, but you'd love to drop round for a cup of tea at 3. That way, they know you're expecting basic hospitality, and they know you'll leave before you outstay your welcome. If that visit goes well, you might get other invitations in the future.
posted by embrangled at 3:34 AM on May 6, 2009 [7 favorites]

sorry: say you're in the area.
posted by embrangled at 3:54 AM on May 6, 2009

They seem like such a selfish boorish lot to me..very concerned with their own "thing".

Frankly, I don't know what is not to like..I don't have children that compete for attention and I think I have been as nice as pie to them...

Hmm, if I picked up on that attitude I wouldn't be rushing to invite you over either!
posted by ian1977 at 4:03 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Naplesyellow, on the off chance that they actually are a selfish and boorish lot, you shouldn't forget that they are your husbands kids, and that they learned their basic attitudes and social behaviors from your husband and his ex long before you were in the picture. It's not as if unfriendly, unkind people just appear out of nowhere. This family has baggage that has nothing to do with you. Merely being nice doesn't erase such baggage, or entitle you to a loving and healthy relationship. If things are broken, fixing them will probably require you to get your hands dirty.
posted by jon1270 at 4:38 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Did their dad show up for their important events as they were growing up? You describe him as hardworking - is that also code for 'worked outside of the house a lot and left the bulk of the parenting and emotional work to mom'? Honestly, the fact that you say you make these events happen for his sake supports this - if it's his family and it's important to *him*, why isn't he doing the work to make these events happen and spend time with his kids?

You're walking into this fresh, and you see him as he is now. I think that there are a lot of people (men) who realize as they're getting older what they've missed out on, and all of a sudden want all the close emotional relationship stuff they didn't put any time into building when they were younger. They've always related to their family as the provider, providing money and gifts instead of time and attention, and then they think their kids are selfish for expecting a relationship based on money and gifts.

I think you need to to step back, let your husband build his own relationship with his kids, and you build your on relationship with the kids, based on what you want and are happy to share. If he wants to do holidays with them, let him learn how to do the logistical and emotional work of building an emotionally close family. You'll only get overworked and resentful trying to retroactively refit a family dynamic. If you can enjoy the kids for who they are as people, then build those individual relationships in a way that won't leave you feeling like you're doing it for someone else who doesn't even appreciate it. If not, then, well, it's his family and his kids.

I'm not a pessimist and I do believe it's possible to change a family dynamic. I just think that he has to do it, and not his new wife. In a way you're again preventing him from learning how to build and sustain those emotional connections.
posted by Salamandrous at 4:50 AM on May 6, 2009 [20 favorites]

What does your SO think? You have talked to him about this, right? I find it odd that you don't mention his feelings in your question. "Yes, they're being very rude to you and it's wrong" is a very different situation, requiring a different approach, than, "No, my relationship with my children was like this before you were around and I'm completely OK with it as it is."

Was he upset that his children didn't come to his photography show, for example? If it didn't bother him, it's really not your place to be offended on his behalf.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:57 AM on May 6, 2009

I think a lot of busy thirtysomethings see hosting for holidays as the older generation's job. It would never occur to me to invite my parents to my house for Christmas; it would feel rude to me to suggest I 'take over' their racket. They do a nice job of it and my resources for that sort of thing are limited compared to theirs.

My grandparents used to do Christmas when I was small. Eventually it'll be my turn...

This seems to be how it works for a lot of families; possibly that's the unspoken consensus among your stepchildren?

And just because he's a good husband to you now doesn't mean he was a good Dad a couple of decades ago. There's too much missing here for anybody to really be able to give you a "correct" answer.
posted by kmennie at 5:11 AM on May 6, 2009

Think about their hosting abilities and lack of talent in entertaining. I would like to host my parents and inlaws more often but my house is seldom as clean as I'd like it to be for inviting people over because we have kids, a dog, and crazy lives.

Your husband's children might be poor housekeepers or lousy cooks. It's not a great excuse but it could be why they are anxious about having guests over. There is never a right time where everything is perfect and the months go by.

Keep in mind that if they are really truly boorish they probably don't have a clue to return a invite, or host any of their friends. They may not be hosting at all. So, don't take it personally.
posted by Fairchild at 5:16 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

If you don't like them, why do you think there is no reason for them not to like you?

Why are you inviting these kids to your husband's show? If it's important to him, he should communicate that to them.

And, why are you responsible for hosting these holidays? It should be your husband and you who host them, with him taking the lead. If you want them to host, have him mention it to the kid most capable of hosting. Or perhaps as a first step, consider letting them know you don't want to host and suggesting dinner out.

I think you're letting your husband off the hook. He should be maintaining relationships with his adult children, not you.

Also, does he ever spend any time with his kids without you there? I crave more time with my dad without my stepmom around. I've asked him for it, but he's so accommodating of her (as many especially older men are of their wives) that he'll never plan to do something she doesn't want to do, and she never suggests he do something without her. Sometimes it's nice to hang out with my dad, or with my dad and my kids, without the stepfamily dynamic at play. So perhaps give them some space to be a family alone, if you're not doing that already.

Also, I wonder if the family celebrations at your house are sometimes painful for them, because the traditions changed because of your presence. Asking them to host would give them a way to create/update their own celebrations.
posted by bluedaisy at 5:28 AM on May 6, 2009 [3 favorites]

You need to talk to them about it, ask them directly. For all you know they may think they can't ask you because they view you as too busy/not interested or that they see you as "the host" who has traditionally taken care of things every Christmas and Thanksgiving. From what you have written above they probably think you are fine with bearing the load at your place 100% of the time, and you can't blame them. You've never voiced your concerns.

Great username btw.
posted by fire&wings at 5:45 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

even expected the "they might not like you" answer. Frankly, I don't know what is not to like..

Some people are just weird - my wife will not warm to anyone who is not a blood relative. Weird.
posted by jkaczor at 6:01 AM on May 6, 2009

From the post, it feels like you throw a lot of energy into hosting. Unless my parents are having guests (non-family members) over, they don't "host" over the holidays. Sure, they might take the time on Christmas to cook a turkey, and a nice sit down meal. but it seems like maybe you're trying too hard. That might be translating to the stepkids that you're putting so much energy into trying please them, that they don't feel the need to reciprocate.

Dial down your activities. Let the children get more of a feeling of you as you, rather than you in hostess mode.

And sometimes, kids just don't call and don't write. I've been guilty of this in some periods of my life, something I've worked hard to rectify with at least weekly phone calls home. Don't take offense, nor think of them as otherwise spoiled children. In this regard, it's as much, if not more your husband's duty to address this problem since they're his kids.

Lastly, to echo a few above, I take it for granted that special events happen at my parents' home. It's how it was when I was growing up, and it's probably the same for these kids (I say kids, I'm about the same age). Be careful that by wishing to celebrate events somewhere else, you don't give off the message that you're trying to exclude the kids from some part of the life they grew up accustom to.
posted by Atreides at 6:16 AM on May 6, 2009

I've noticed some gender mixing in your post and response. You refer to your SO as the Mom but also as a fine man. Your profile shows that you have a traditionally female name (Celeste). You also refer to the kids' Dad as male. If so, has everything been discussed with the kids? This could be a source of discomfort for them.

If not, feel free to ignore.
posted by zerokey at 6:17 AM on May 6, 2009

I doubt that I will call the daughter to ask when we can come over (though I thank you for recommending it). She's over 30 years old. I figure she knows that that is up to her.

You have a whole bunch of people telling you that no, she may not know that this is up to her.

Look, from your description, the kids do sound like they take their dad and you for granted, and have been self-absorbed.

Meanwhile, you're martyring yourself to try to produce giant happy family holidays worthy of a Norman Rockwell painting, and getting frustrated.

But here's the thing -- all that resentment tends to bubble up all over the place, and please don't think that the kids haven't noticed it. On top of this, you seem to be saying that you're unhappy with the situation, but unwilling to take any steps to change it, but want to complain about it. Occasional venting is fine, but it sounds like you're talked yourself into just circling round and round the subject. Notably absent from your post is what your SO thinks about his kids and your unhappiness regarding them.
posted by desuetude at 6:30 AM on May 6, 2009 [4 favorites]

I've been in their place. Look, they don't like you, and they don't have to. Just as you clearly don't like them. Quit trying to force something to happen.

I'm also sensing there is more to this situation, like zerokey points out.
posted by sephira at 6:32 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

zerokey, when they said that the kids like Mom best, I believe she meant the kids actual mom, as in her SO's ex-wife, not her SO himself. No gender mixing how I read it.
posted by ishotjr at 6:36 AM on May 6, 2009

As far as your situation, naplesyellow, I would stop extending yourself. Maybe if you want to do a BBQ for Father's Day, or whatever, do that. But then afterward, call it a day. Don't acknowledge the stepdaughter's request for Lowe's giftcards unless your husband wants to. Is he stressing over it? If it gives him joy, then I think you need to suck it up and let him do what he wants.

You may be the most pleasant, most loving and hospitable hostess and stepmother ever (and I hope you are) - hell, I wish my MIL was - but you can't change people. Perhaps, if anything, it's your husband that needs to pick up the phone to say to his children, "Hey, it's a beautiful day, I'm coming over with sandwiches. I'll be there in an hour".

I wrote a much longer and detailed response involving my step mother in law, but I'm not so sure I wanted to spring those skeletons free. Mr. dancinglamb might've had my head on a stick.
posted by dancinglamb at 6:39 AM on May 6, 2009

OK..yeah..scratch that. I just reread everything for the tenth time. Just ignore me.
posted by zerokey at 6:43 AM on May 6, 2009

I doubt that I will call the daughter to ask when we can come over (though I thank you for recommending it). She's over 30 years old. I figure she knows that that is up to her.

Ok, sure, this SHOULD be true. She ought to ask you herself.

HOWEVER. It seems you have two options: you can continue to not bring up the issue and resent her, or you can bring it up once and maybe actually get an invitation and an apology. Or, you know, maybe you'll bring it up and she'll skirt the issue and you'll continue to resent her behavior. But that's no worse than your current situation, so just ask her already.
posted by showbiz_liz at 6:49 AM on May 6, 2009

As time goes on and we get more and more ignored I feel less and less like "doing" anything about the situation. I doubt that I will call the daughter to ask when we can come over (though I thank you for recommending it). She's over 30 years old. I figure she knows that that is up to her. Oh, by the way, she did call and tell her Dad that she would like a gift certificate from Lowes for her birthday.

People don't know what you want unless you tell them. If these folks are bold/blunt enough to call up and say "I'd like a Lowe's gift certificate for my birthday," that should give you a free pass to call them up and say "I'd like for us all to share hosting duties for family holidays. Would you be able to take Thanksgiving this year? That way, I can focus all my energy on Christmas..."

My house is a mess, generally--a comfortable mess for my SO and me, but not exactly a place I'd be comfortable entertaining. So, I don't spontaneously invite people over, especially not people my parents' age who (I assume) have higher expectations for my housekeeping than my generational peers. I would, however, be entirely willing to host a holiday party for my parents and relatives if my mom called me and said, "Can you take Christmas this year? I'm just so swamped these days, I don't think I can do it." I'd have enough lead time, I'd know exactly what she wanted, and I could prepare appropriately.

I don't mean to make an unfair accusation, but if you're unwilling to even try saying explicitly "I'd like you to do this thing for me, please," then it sounds like you don't really want to solve this problem so much as you want to feel justified in disliking your stepchildren. They may not be especially empathetic or sensitive, but I can also pretty much guarantee they're not psychic: give them the information they need rather than expecting them to read your mind.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:00 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I don't know what I expected to hear from you all..I bet I didn't really expect any "solid" answers ..I might have just asked it to see if anyone would throw someone out that I haven't thought of. I guess in a way I am just sort of venting..I mean, how can anyone really answer such a question. It is pretty vast subject..isn't it?

This is not what AskMe is for.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 7:02 AM on May 6, 2009 [4 favorites]

What is your financial situation? You are not married. So right now you have to dance for your supper. The kids don't have to do anything - they will inherit his estate. UNLESS they get really cozy with you, the father thinks they like you so maybe you are worthy of marriage. Then they either loose their inheritance or it is significantly smaller if they have to share with you. It is in their best interest to be cold to you.
posted by cda at 7:09 AM on May 6, 2009

I like my father's wife less the more she contacts me, because I find her personality grating. I'm sure she can't imagine why I feel that way, just as you can't imagine why your partner's children wouldn't like you, but it is what it is. She's not someone I would choose to spend time with, so I choose not to spend time with her.

Incidentally, if my father invites me to something, I'll often go. But if my father's wife invites me to something, telling me that it's important to my father, that tells me that it's actually not that important to him, because if it was, he would have called me himself and invited me. Under those circumstances, I'm highly unlikely to attend. I skipped my father's birthday party last year for that reason.

I'm not interested in a relationship with my father's wife, and I can't imagine I ever will be. She married my father when I was an adult, she's not family to me, and although I appreciate how happy she makes him, I don't have any interest in becoming close with her.

If your husband wants to have a relationship with his children, he should make the effort. He should not invite you along if his children ever invite him to do something (especially if they invite him without mentioning you). I have never invited my father over to my home (and I rarely invite him to do anything), because I know that he's likely to bring her, and there's no way within the bounds of politeness to ask him not to. He should cultivate this relationship himself. You should stay out of it. These people are strangers to you, and strangers you don't much seem to like. Get out of the way and let your husband take the lead.

If they still don't respond positively, his children may not like either of you. They're not required to. Just as you're entitled to think that they're selfish spoiled brats, they're entitled to their feelings about you. And don't think that they don't know that you dislike them, resent them, etc. They've been on the lookout for as long as they've known you for signs that you dislike them or are trying to interrupt their lives. They know.

This is not your battle. These young adults are not your family. Stay out of it.
posted by decathecting at 7:09 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

Oh, and in case I'm wrong and your relationship with your partner's children is nothing like that, here are a few other possibilities:

-They're introverts, and they don't like having people over.

-They're very messy and don't feel as though they can entertain up to your standards.

-They were raised to believe that the older generation does for the younger, and they're waiting their turn because they don't want to offend you.

-They're poor (as evinced by their requests for financial help) and don't feel ready to entertain.

-Their relationship with their father is tenuous.

-They feel as though if they entertained for holidays at their house, they'd have to choose which parent to invite, or deal with hostility between their parents, and they don't want to be put in the middle of their parents divorce.

-They hate holidays (a lot of children of divorce do, as do a lot of perfectly nice, normal people whose family relationships are fine) and only come to your house to humor you.

-They suffer from depression or anxiety, and the thought of dealing with hosting you seems terrifying.

-They come from a generation that doesn't do dinner parties, etc., and they wouldn't know where to start.

-They have no idea that you care about this, because neither you nor your partner has ever mentioned this to them, and they'd be delighted to host if either of you ever told them you wanted them to instead of complaining about it on the internet.
posted by decathecting at 7:15 AM on May 6, 2009 [13 favorites]

If this goes too far, I apologize sincerely, but I get the distinct impression that something happened in the past that you are not seeing or glossing over and the kids have not forgotten about it. I fully admit that I am projecting my personal experiences onto your situation, but I am not finger pointing and I do not mean this in an accusatory way. Were you the other woman? Did you start dating your S.O. relatively quickly after his former relationship collapsed? Did you make an innocent comment years ago about their mother that they may have taken differently than you intended? Are you inadvertently trying to act as a replacement for their mother? You don't say that you are married, so perhaps they don't consider you a step-parent? You don't have children yourself, are your expectations too high?

Relationships with step-children are difficult, even adult children, and I promise you they are doing this either because 1) they just are that way (some families just aren't close) or 2) you've offended them in some way (I know that if I were your step-child and I read your question I would be incredibly offended - you've insulted them no less than four times so far).

Also, as a child of divorced parents with step-parents thrown into the mix, I can tell you it is not easy for them. I have to balance holidays evenly between parents so no one feels slighted, but it never works that way - so I eventually just stopped celebrating holidays with them. If I can't get everyone sufficiently pleased in equal amounts, then eff it, I can easily disappoint everyone equally.
posted by sephira at 7:28 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I'm in my 30s with (awesome) step-parents. One thing I like about them is that they get that my primary relationship is with my parent. My parents do the majority of the communicating with me about family events and I talk for a few minutes on the phone with the stepdad/mom to say hello and catch up at the end. When we're together, I spend a lot of time with my brother and my parent, and my stepmom/dad gracefully makes time for that by running errands or taking a nap. (I think I would invite them over if they lived in the same city though).

There's a lot of emotional stuff that kids (even when they're no longer kids) go through with divorce that is not obvious or manifests weirdly. As an example, my mom got irked with me that I didn't send cards or otherwise celebrate her wedding anniversary with my stepdad. Well, sorry, while I really like my stepdad, celebrating that anniversary kind of makes me sad that my parents aren't married anymore, so no, that's not going to happen. (My stepdad would never in a million years make that request, hence the awesomeness).

If you've taken over primary communication duties, your stepchildren may not welcome that. Also, without knowing their relationship with their father before you came on the scene, it is possible that it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with their relationship with their father when they were younger. Maybe instead of you asking when you and your husband can come over, have your husband do it? I suspect that might go better.
posted by *s at 7:38 AM on May 6, 2009

I’m going to answer this from a different perspective, just from watching and listening to people quite a bit (and I just don’t buy into societal traditions/expectations sometimes).
Why are you obligated to do this the way everyone else does (host activity X in your home? Or give XYZZY as a present to child A?) Redefine the traditions, ones that may also meet your needs, and see how others respond.

A couple ideas, as a warning I know they may be barbaric to some:

1) New rule: no gifts exchanged at Christmas, or nothing beyond a book, etc. My mother and adult sibling and I came up with this rule after my mom divorced later in life. For me, best rule ever – no pressure. (It may take away the baggage that exists for you when they ask for $)

2) For a particular holiday, in advance, declare that you and your SO have decided you want to work at charity X for the day (eg, soup kitchen). You are going to help out from 10 to noon, then have the meal there. The kids of your SO can come if they want, but this is how you want to spend that holiday. (Time to put your $ where your mouth is if you really believe everyone is selfish – will you go through with this? Will the kids? They may surprise you).

3) What about just declaring in advance that for this holiday, you plan to go out to eat at a simple place (something everyone can afford). It would be nice that everyone plans to pay X towards the meal. There will be questions, just say, it is hard to clean up/etc and makes it easier for everyone. (Don’t say it with all the adjective judgemental comments – you don’t invite me, etc).

I am also saying this from a different perspective. In reality, I think you are judging them as boorish, selfish, etc, because of how they interact with you specifically (or you and your SO). So they ask for a gift certificate – perhaps that same person volunteers and gives money to – who knows. It sounds like you are really judging them by – I give them token X, an opportunity to eat here, token Y, why aren’t they giving me the same things back. Do they also consider those things valuable? Do they know that you do?
posted by Wolfster at 7:42 AM on May 6, 2009

They seem like such a selfish boorish lot to me..very concerned with their own "thing". I can try to win them over (but it really feels like I am tilting at windmills to try) ...or I can just put the brakes on all the hostessing. All these family parties...I've done it for their Dad.

Oy. I have a feeling that there have been plenty enough family parties for everyone, and they're not inviting you over because they're just as tired of them as you are. How about you organize only as many family parties as you feel like doing, and let your husband organize a few if he feels he needs more?

Also, from the sound of it, you are relatively new to the family. What may be a comfortable dynamic to them, set up through years of repetition, seems alien and cold to you. I can imagine it's tough to marry into a family and be the instant outsider. I can understand why you are disappointed and feeling resentful, but it's really not going to make you any more popular. Even if you are all smiles at family events, that kind of attitude is impossible to hide.

They're not your kids - you don't have to like them. But you can't have it both ways.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 7:50 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Rereading your post, I must ask... do you like them? It doesn't seem like you do, at all. So, perhaps you are indignant on behalf of your SO, or you are miffed that someone that you feel SHOULD be inviting you to things is not. Based on what you have written, you want to be invited over because it's the proper thing to do and because those ungrateful children don't realize what they'll be missing one day.

All the wheedling and guilting in the world will not earn you a phone call or letter. Your SO is not obligated to keep giving them money, but he is doing so regardless. Is he as upset as you are? If he is not, then you should cease the hand-wringing as well .

Please stop feeling like the hostessing burden is all on you. For birthdays and holidays this year, mention casually and in advance that it just won't be possible. Try going out to a local restaurant or having your SO contact one of his children to see if you can have the festivities there.
posted by amicamentis at 8:11 AM on May 6, 2009

Well, I'm someone in my 30s, my parents are still married and I love them deeply, but I still don't have them over to my house. I don't entertain. It's never been my thing. My mom just saw my place for the first time since I moved a year ago, and they only live 45 min away. My dad has only seen my place because he helped me move. Plus, it's just a given that any sort of get together, whether formal or casual, is at my parents. It's just the way it is. If my mom has a problem with it, it's up to her to tell us.

And yes, my mom complains about the fact I never have her over, but she's accepted my reluctance to entertain as just one of my quirks.

So -- just because you want to be invited over doesn't mean they want you there, and it may not have anything at all to do with you. Maybe they just don't entertain.

Accept your (step)children for who they are. You can't force yourself into their homes, or you'll end up being resented. This is not something you can "parent" them into. If you're tired of hosting, fine -- don't host. You can only change your actions, not anyone else's.
posted by cgg at 8:12 AM on May 6, 2009

It sounds to me like there are certain traditions and norms that exist in your SO's family that aren't necessarily the ones you would like. It's your SO's job to change them if he wants to, otherwise it's up to you to adapt yourself to them. You shouldn't expect anyone else to change, but you can find ways to work within the boundaries of the current relationships.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:41 AM on May 6, 2009

You didn't say much about your stepchildrens' lives. I'm in my 30's, as well, but I'm still in grad school (as is my boyfriend) and we live in a little grad student duplex. We have a tiny eat-in kitchen and a tiny living room. Neither are necessarily clean all the time. When folks come to town to visit I take them out to eat and avoid them seeing my house if at all possible. This includes my parents with whom I am very close. I know when my parents were my age they lived in the very nice home I grew up in (and I was 7 and my brother was 10). They were glad to host events at my age, but their lives were very different from my life.

Which is just to say, maybe them not inviting you to their homes has very little to do with you and your relationship with them and more to do with their homes.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:46 AM on May 6, 2009

I think decathecting raises a very important point. I am not a child of divorce but lots of my friends are and it seems the juggling of family holidays is the most stressful. It's Thanksgiving and they go to one parent's house the day before and another the day after. God forbid if the parents make the kids choose. If the kids hosted then, what? They're going to host two Thanksgivings in order to accommodate their parent's choices? I don't think so.

I think the advice in this thread boils down to: back off, find a new outlet for your energy, quit parenting your new SO. It's up to him to navigate a relationship with his children.
posted by amanda at 8:47 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Frankly, I don't know what is not to like

Some people won't like you, that's the way life is. You may be nice as pie with them, but they might not like to be with you and it's normal. People might get along with a person when it's a coworker or a neighbor, but when it's a relative it's more difficult.

You are very critical of them and when that happens, it shows.

I also notice money is a sore topic. Sorry, even if they are rude and boorish, they feel they are entitled to their fathers money, and maybe they are. You should not intervene in that topic, because you'll never reach an agreement.

I have a stepmother and I'm close to your stepsons age. I realize I have never invited them to my home, and there are several reasons: I don't know how to cook something good enough for entertaining visitors, and frankly, I don't consider her to be my relative and I'm not too interested in her visiting me. I don't hate her, we get along and she has been nice to me, but I don't feel close to her. She has a different education and I don't feel any chemistry.
posted by clearlydemon at 8:57 AM on May 6, 2009

My husband's parents are divorced and remarried. They all live within an hour drive. Holidays have become arduous because we have THREE different events to attend. One with the dad and stepmom, one with the mom and stepdad and one with my parents. If my parents were divorced and remarried, that would make four holiday events. It imay be that your stepchildren may have the same situation and just get overwhelmed during the holidays.

Also, both my mother-in-law and step-mother-in-law love holidays and are excellent hostesses. They have big lovely homes that they decorate for each holiday with multiple Xmas trees, antique ornaments, linens, china and heirloom silver. My husband and I don't really get into the holidays so much, so hosting it at our house can seem a little spartan or something. We still do it sometimes though! You have to ask or just say that you don't want to host this year. If you want to come over to their homes, tell them! Ask lots of questions about their yards and interiors and then ask when a good time to visit would be.

As far as the focus on money and presents, most of my family has decided to give homemade or food gifts for the adults and regular presents for the children. We also do charitable donations in honor of each other or go volunteer somewhere as a family. This works out well because some of us make less money than other people in the family and with the economy what it is...
posted by pluckysparrow at 9:16 AM on May 6, 2009

It all depends on what happened between Mom and Dad.

My stepmother is a perfectly nice person, who has been very good to me. She and my dad have been together twenty years now, and they are very happy. I am honestly glad that he has her in his life. She is a doting grandmother to my kids. But. She made my mom sad. I know I'm not ungrateful for everything she does for my dad and my kids, and I wish her only the best, but I still have to cut a little notch out of the relationship and stand in it, because... she made my mom sad.

I'm pushing forty, and my mom is dead -- but there it is.
posted by Methylviolet at 9:35 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

I just heard Wednesday Martin on the radio talking about her book which explores the issues of being a Stepmom - it sounded very interesting if you are interested in exploring these issues further.
posted by extrabox at 9:42 AM on May 6, 2009

Meet at a restaurant for every holiday except Christmas. It's neutral territory, no one has to clean, cook, or do dishes, and you can't linger there forever so there's a defined end to it. Alternate picking restaurants. Alternate hosting Christmas. Drop your attitude about them being selfish and boorish, and assume the best of people. Done.
posted by desjardins at 10:30 AM on May 6, 2009

If you were my step-mom, I wouldn't invite you over either. From your posts in this thread, you come across as a bitch who dislikes her SO's kids and tries to put yourself in between his relationship with them. You may be hosting events "for his sake" and feeling like they owe you for that, but that's bullshit, honestly. If he wants to host the events with his kids, you can help him, but it should be his responsibility to orchestrate and organize these things.

What would happen if you stopped trying to play go-between? Would the kids just never see you again? Or, might they call their dad to see what the plan is? Would you be the one they call? Based on what you've said, I sincerely doubt it. If you don't want to be part of the family, butt out and separate your relationship with your SO from that of his relationship with his kids.
posted by booknerd at 10:35 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

All answers read with interest!

Many of you have stated that my resentment is showing...well, some of your resentment(s) are showing too. Seems I have hit some sort of nerve with this question. This is my first question to MetaAsk and I wanted to be brief. ...simply because I wanted to see if I could get to the heart of the thing without making it a novel.

Well, but I've been asked for some other details..so here is the novel version, for those interested:

No, I was not the other woman. There was no other woman. The mother left the father 15 years before I got here…..for another man when the youngsters were very young.
My s.o. and the youngster's* Mom don't talk to one another but they are civil to one another if they have to come in contact with one another (like they did when the youngest got married).

*I have to alternate between calling them children, youngsters and offspring..their certainly not young. One is 42, the others 30 and 32.

My s.o. and his ex wife shared the children in joint custody when they were little and from what I understand it was a VERY difficult hateful divorce. Their Dad is a hard worker and worked hard to put bread on the table. No doubt his workaholic ways play into the family dynamics and caused trouble..but (sorry if this sounds defensive) he was really trying to be a good family man and to work and provide like his father did. S.o. is 64 now and truly, despite his working very hard, not many people could ever ask for a better Dad. I bet he regrets some of how the divorce went down..but hindsight is 20/20...and he is a really honest and lovable Dad..the kind who says "I love you" and helps them in all kinds of ways. He did teach them, especially by example, how to be reasonably good folks. For all my bitching about what I perceive as their poor manners, all have jobs and no one is in jail or doing meth. I know that they love him.

All that aside, I am not surprised that my resentment comes across. I liked the question about whether or not *I* was privy to what it was like to come from a broken home. Well..Uh, yeah. I had a terrible childhood stemming from divorce and a completely absent father. While we are in all this armchair analysis of my responsibility in what is wrong here…I can definitely own up to wishing I would have had a Dad who would have cared about me at all and this would be a lot of why I love my s.o, because he is a good Dad who cares about his children. I am certain my lifelong longings do have something to do with making the holidays happen. (I doubt that the children are bored with the holidays..they always show up with bells on so that idea that "oh they are probably as bored with it as you are" doesn't wash). They show up for the food and presents....maybe to check in some on Dad (not me). They never miss it.

I thank you for giving the matter your thoughtful consideration. I appreciate every answer (even the snarky ones because those are probably exactly how the offspring are feeling and I honestly did not have any perspective about their view). We all tend to see things from our own position. So, this helps me. I do understand that I have a “martyr” thing going on here…because I am not telling s.o.’s children the truth about how fed up I am with how it feels to me. I think I thought if I made things nice for them they would appreciate it. I am finding out by reading these responses that they are probably classifying me as someone they have to put up with…and that they wouldn’t give me the time of day if I weren’t with their Dad. Right now that feeling is very mutual. For the person who made a remark about how my being married to s.o. would probably show more commitment…really? I have been with their Dad for ten years. Are you kidding me? Is this accurate? Two of the offspring have live-in s.o.’s . I just sort of doubt that I am looked upon as sinful or something.

My S.O. didn’t do the asking to the reception for his photography show..because those things (the invitations) are traditionally handled by other people! This is kind of like how you wouldn’t want to ask someone to your own surprise party type of thing. It was his moment to shine and I bet he didn’t dawn on him that he would have to beg any of them to come..why wouldn't you assume that your family would show up for something like that??....I am still pretty incredulous and this is why and how I can come up with words like boors about them. Really, who doesn't understand that having a solo show of your work is an unprecedented honor?? He is modest and it seemed right for me to ask them (which I did..!!) I am still really mad at them for not coming to that. BTW…. If any of your Fathers have a solo photography show…um…you REALLY OUGHT TO GO. Just FYI.

Thanks again for the responses. I was really surprised to get so many nicely thought out replies. I appreciate the time you have taken to write. The time you have contributed in writing is more time than my stepchildren have EVER given me. Man...it sure is all about them! Well, I am taking this all to heart. You are all correct..that stewing alone only makes matters worse and everyone deserves respect. I have been getting more and more pissed off inside without any clear plan. You’ve all helped me to see that. I agree that I haven't done everything that I should be doing to cultivate real relationships with them. I am just getting old and weary of having to be the one who makes the effort. There may be an empty hospital room in my future where no one can "swing by" because they don't have the time! (talking about the Dad..not me, I KNOW they won't "swing by" for me!)
I feel like I have made lots of efforts. Seems like it should be more of a two way street...but I heard all of what you had to say.

Thanks again!
posted by naplesyellow at 10:41 AM on May 6, 2009

sorry for the typos.
posted by naplesyellow at 10:50 AM on May 6, 2009

My dad married a very nice woman long after I was grown up. She was awesome to my dad and our whole family was hugely grateful to her for it. However, she grated on my last nerve through no fault of her own- she was just from a different culture. (As an example, when she was insecure (which was often) she spoke in a little girl voice and it was all I could do not to shake her when she did it. I don't know why it bugged me that much, but it did.)

I DID invite everyone over to my little apartment for Thanksgiving once. It was awkward and uncomfortable. I didn't have enough seating. My mom and she had to pretend to be cordial. I was acutely aware that my apartment (and its kitchen especially) was inferior to her beautiful and impeccably manicured house. So there's all that.

But in your case it sounds like you're trying to change the culture of the family. If my step-mom had started doing all the entertaining and communicating for the both of them I'd have felt really hurt that my dad couldn't be bothered. Even worse, I would KNOW she was doing it out of some sense of duty. Best case scenario: she's controlling my dad's contact and social life. Worst case scenario: my dad doesn't care about me any more.

It sounds like you are trying to force a change how your SO's family interacts, based one what you think that interaction SHOULD look like, and then expecting everyone to be grateful for it. This is a recipe for resentment on all sides.

I suggest only doing what you feel like doing, even if that's nothing except a Christmas card. Let your SO be the main contact for the kids, even if he's doing a crap job of it. Basically, just let go. These relationships really aren't your job. Really. By presuming that it IS your job, you're probably making things worse.

So the good news is- you're off the hook! Enjoy your life and don't go out of your way for these relationships.

(I'd still send Christmas and birthday cards.)
posted by small_ruminant at 10:54 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

Honestly, your step"kids" seem like spoiled, inconsiderate brats. I'm not surprised at your resentment and you would be a complete saint if you didn't harbor some. It really makes me sad that none of them took the time to show up for their father's gallery show.

Why don't you be the adult here and just come out and say that you would like to be more involved in their lives, and would so love to be invited to their homes? I'm betting that self-absorbed people such as these are perfectly happy with the status quo and it hasn't occurred to them to extend any hospitality to your and their dad as a couple....that's what YOU are for...hosting and whatnot. They just need to be made aware of how their actions and non-actions are affecting you. They have no idea.
posted by iconomy at 11:01 AM on May 6, 2009 [1 favorite]

sorry- didn't preview
posted by small_ruminant at 11:08 AM on May 6, 2009

Mmmmm I acknowledge I have a very prejudiced answer, similar to what many upthread have said. I'm pretty sure my mom would speak as you do, saying she's so wonderful and I'm a horribly ungrateful child. The reality, from my perspective, is that she's really intolerable and puts an emotional price tag on everything (e.g., "I did a, b, c for you, so you should do x, y, z for me."). So the reason I don't invite her to my home? And the reason I really dislike spending time with her? She's needy, insensitive, overbearing, and just plain rude in my home. So that's a possibility there.

What's really grating is the sense of entitlement some people have with regard to visits. It sounds like you have a touch of this. Bottom line: the kids are not obligated to do anything for you. You have chosen to have family parties and that's your decision, but please don't truck through life thinking that because you choose to live that way, they should reciprocate. As booknerd says, that's bullshit. If you want to do something kind, do it out of sheer kindness, but don't attach the aforementioned emotional price tag onto it and expect reciprocation. That's called manipulation, not kindness.

If you're operating from the perspective of "I need to make these people like me because I love their dad" I can tell you that's a very transparent method. I've experienced it and saw through that in my lifetime and it's possible the kids have, too. Again, this isn't operating from a place of kindness with the privity existing between you and the kids. It's icky, trying-to-impress-someone grandstanding that comes across as superficial and insecure.

It's really hard to say what's going on here. Maybe the kids are just total assholes, in which case that won't ever change. But think about where their attitudes originated (e.g., their parents), so that kind of shoots down your whole theory about the wonderful parenthood your SO provided them. Old pain dies very hard, if it dies at all. If these kids are still maintaining resentment against their father for his past ways, that's between them and their dad. You can't shatter that wall by hosting parties. You seem very defensive of him and actions he took before you were even on the scene! Yeah, he may look like father of the year to you, but all your info on the topic comes from him. Maybe he really was a huge absent asshole to them all and now, yeah, their relationship consists of gift cards and calls for help, period, and that's the best they can do in the wake of bad childhoods. Don't try to fix that stuff; it'll really (I promise you) only breed resentment.

The photography thing: how often did SO attend their childhood events when he was working "hard to put bread on the table?" Basically, you're putting your standards on others' behavior which is always a recipe for disaster, imho. Look at how you wrote about it: you're the one who's so upset, SO didn't even do the inviting, etc. Yuck. You sound very controlling and as if you're trying to dictate what would make others happy (both SO and the kids). But you don't get to decide what others should and shouldn't do and what would make them happy.

Overall, it's hard to say what the problem is here. But I'd bet serious money that one or more of the above is at play, because I've seen alllll of this before. I'd recommend taking a step back and not trying to control others' relationships and happiness. Those aren't your responsibilities or rights.
posted by December at 11:19 AM on May 6, 2009

yes, iconomy they are spoiled! I was just thinking about how many of the posters here have called me a bitch. Ya.I'm just such a bitch ...buying presents and feeding this lot for ten years. Oh, What a BITCH! lol lol. Yeah, I am trying to cause sooo much trouble with all the gifts and occasions. Good to know!
posted by naplesyellow at 11:21 AM on May 6, 2009

yes, iconomy they are spoiled! I was just thinking about how many of the posters here have called me a bitch. Ya.I'm just such a bitch ...buying presents and feeding this lot for ten years. Oh, What a BITCH! lol lol. Yeah, I am trying to cause sooo much trouble with all the gifts and occasions. Good to know!
posted by naplesyellow at 11:21 AM on May 6 [+] [!]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You seem to think giving gifts and hosting dinner should make them happy and like you. No. You are putting your standards on other people: just because you would like to be treated that way doesn't mean they "should" like that kind of behavior. You are overlooking the fact that maybe they are tired being bought off with gifts (a common factor in divorce with an absent parent who works a lot) and tired of being obligated to attend family dinners with you.

Again, maybe they're just assholes. But comments like that one you just posted demonstrate the focus when you do these things is on you and your feelings, not on selfless kindness.
posted by December at 11:29 AM on May 6, 2009 [5 favorites]

Out of 30+ posters I only see one "bitch" comment.

Hint I learned: Give out of abundance, not out of substance. If giving presents and hosting is causing you resentment, stop doing it. It's that simple.

It sounds like your generosity is all in order to get certain results. This just doesn't work.
posted by small_ruminant at 11:29 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

So, doing the math: You've been in the picture for 10 years. The kids are in their early thirties. Ergo, you weren't really there for the kids' childhood years.

A lot could have happened during those years. There are probably dynamics between your SO and the kids that you can't see and don't understand.

Example: If you saw me and my dad together today in public, you'd hear cheerful banter and many affectionate comments, especially from him. You'd note a certain simpatico in terms of senses of humor, and a rich tapestry of in-jokes. None of that's fake, but it's also nothing remotely like the whole truth. I've never had reason to doubt that my dad loves me, but he's a very insecure, very smart man with a king-sized personality and a triple helping of untreated PTSD from Vietnam. Plus he was raised by a narcissist from Hell. (Think Tony Soprano's mother only subtract most of the ambition and about 20 I.Q. points. Love my grandmother. Love her.)

My dad's and my relationship has always been difficult, and it's only in the last five years or so that it's become consistently stable. This is, in part, because he's finally started to get counseling for some of the lingering war-trauma, and in part because we've both learned the value of responding to emotional button-pushing (real or imagined) with a good, sweet, solid Stepford smile. Distance helps. If I'm not in his face all the time, he doesn't have to think too hard about my left-wing, pro-gay politics; my atheism; my beatnik clothing; my indifferent housekeeping; my lack of desire to take over his law firm one day; or any of the other things about me that tend to provoke feelings of disappointment and anger. Similarly, if he's not in my face all the time, I don't have to spend a lot of time stewing about any lingering, doofy-ass childhood resentments I might have. Distance also means that our Stepford smiles don't generally have to undergo major, extended stress tests. My parents don't visit me in my own city, and I almost never visit them in theirs. Social interactions work best for us on neutral ground. If we want to hang out and reconnect, we generally meet up for a vacation in a state where none of us live-- sometimes we even go to a neutral country.

Whatever the dynamic is between your SO and his kids-- it's rooted in decades of history. It's grown from a thick mulch of love, hope, heartbreak, sadness, resignation, affection, solace, and coping. That isn't to say that the kids aren't genuinely self-absorbed. If you see it, there's probably some truth to it. But consider also the fact that their patterns of communication, visiting, and hosting are the way they are because, in some very important ways, they work.

When you look at your SO, you see a fine man who is being neglected by his grown children. When they look at him, they see something far, far different. I'm sure they love him, and I'm sure he loves them. But a parent-child relationship that's weathered a divorce is bound to be at least somewhat complicated, and I can't imagine that theirs are any different.

I'll give you one last piece of advice in closing, which comes from my days as a domestic violence advocate in AmeriCorps:

Domestic violence, obviously, is a pretty touchy subject, and doing direct service with domestic violence survivors can be emotionally gruelling to say the least. My cohort was composed of domestic violence volunteers of a wide variety of ages, religions, political persuasions, and backgrounds: when we met for our quarterly retreats, a lot of venting tended to happen, and not all of it was particularly good-natured. In order to make sure those retreats continued to be safe, positive, nurturing places, we had a few ground rules, the most important of which was "Think well of each other." In other words, don't assume that a particular comment is said with hurtful intent. Don't assume that you're being neglected or snubbed. Respect one another, realize that you're all in this together, and try to view each other's words and actions in the best possible light.

I'd encourage you to think well of your stepchildren. You may not think they deserve it-- but if you make an effort to think well of them, you'll find yourself less angry, and if you genuinely hope to have a better, more bi-directional relationship with them, being less angry will really help.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 11:33 AM on May 6, 2009 [5 favorites]

I don't really understand why you've been called a bitch, either. The thing about the photography show - did they have really good excuses for not going? Because it seems like, unless they were a really expensive plane ticket away or in the same city but unbelievably busy, they really should have gone. I'd have a hard time forgiving that, too.

If I were you I'd just give up on them and let their dad deal with them. Sounds like you've done enough.
posted by hazyjane at 11:49 AM on May 6, 2009

1. If you continue to give them presents and suchlike, they will most likely continue responding in the same way they have been, and you will be unhappy.
2. If you stop giving them presents and suchlike, probably nothing will change on their end. But you won't feel put out.
posted by desjardins at 11:52 AM on May 6, 2009

If Dad worked so hard to support the kids before and after the divorce, their relationship to him is based on money, so no wonder they only call to ask him for more. From your description, he doesn't sound like father of the year, he sounds like a workaholic absent dad. And yes, he might have been doing it for all the best, selfless reasons, but the truth is that he wasn't there for them to build a relationship with. As someone else said, old pain dies hard if it dies at all, and you still don't really know what his children went through when they were kids.

My parents divorced when I was five and both remarried. I am cordial to my stepmother (who was the Other Woman). My stepmother, for the most part, has taken control of communication between me and my father. All cards come from her, sometimes with his signature, sometimes with his name in her handwriting. If he calls me for a special occasion, I guarantee that she told him to. For my most recent birthday, I know that she picked out a gift and it's sitting in his office, waiting to be dropped off at the post office (the only part of the job he was responsible for). Do I resent this? Yes, quite a bit. Those things are all HIS responsibility. HE is my father. HE should be the one trying to make sure we maintain a relationship, but he's hardly ever bothered to do that. In some respects, I would rather that we have less of a relationship than one created by my stepmother.

This is not necessarily fair to my stepmother, who despite the origins of her relationship with my father, has clearly tried to make him have a relationship with me. But it's grating. Contrast this with my stepfather, who has never tried to insert himself into my relationship with my mother--and that's part of the reason I have an independent relationship with him.

This doesn't quite sound like what you're going through, but please keep in mind that while you know what it's like to be from a broken home, nothing in your followup indicates that you know what it's like to come from a stepfamily.

Step back, throw parties if you feel like it, and try inviting yourself over to your stepkids' homes, or having some honest conversations with them about how they see their relationship with their father and with you.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:52 AM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

You are asking two different questions:

1. How do we deal with the fact that we keep giving gifts (money, etc.) to our kids and they don't seem grateful?

... and the more specific:

2. Why don't our kids invite us over?

There's a really simple answer to the first question, and I believe it's the only answer, though it may not be the answer you want to hear: though greedy, spoiled childish adults are annoying, the ARE adults and you can't change them. So either stop giving them gifts or continue giving without expecting anything in return. The WORST thing you can do is keep giving and expecting something in return. That way leads to frustration at best and passive-aggressive behavior at worst.

(Personally, I would have a hard time giving without expecting anything it return. So I'd stop giving.)

Yes, they SHOULD be less spoiled. We all agree on that. But they aren't. The way to deal with FEELINGS of unfairness is to vent, and you're doing that. Good. The way to deal with the practicalities of unfairness (that you can't change) is to accept them or move on.

As to your second question, I can venture a few guesses:

-- Different people have different ideas about family obligations. At the core, once everyone is an adult, a family member is another person, no more and no less. Yet some people feel like they have a connection to family all family members, while others feel only connected to close family members; some people feel no more connected to family members than they do to random acquaintances.

(For instance I feel close to my parents and brother, but distant relatives are meaningless to me. It's always weird to me when someone contacts me out of the blue and says, "Hey, we've never met but it turns out we're distantly-related cousins." I'm a nice guy, so I'm polite, but I have a secret desire to replay with, "So what? Why would you contact me? We don't know each other." To me, I have much more in common with a stranger on the subway -- because at least we're sharing an experience -- than with some distant cousin I've never met.)

What tends to be the constant for all people though is that THEY CAN'T PUT THEMSELVES IN SOMEONE'S SHOES IF THAT PERSON HAS A DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEW ABOUT FAMILY. Someone who doesn't feel connected to his parents will rarely empathize with someone who does; someone who feels strong family ties will rarely get someone who couldn't care less about his family. What's odd is that many such people are normally empathic and understanding, but this issue seems to be as divisive as political affiliation.

Simply put, your kids may have very different feelings about family than you do. Now, if they don't feel connected to you, it's shitty for them to expect hand outs. They shouldn't do that. (See SHOULDN'T, above.) But I can't call them shitty for not caring about you. It's sad if you care about them and that care is not returned. But such is life. Sometimes we care about people who don't care about us.

It's funny to me that you hear someone say your kids may not like you and respond with "what's not to like?" (Maybe you're joking.) What's funny to me is that you seem to be of the opinion that as long as a person is nice, everyone should like her. Well, there ARE plenty of people who feel that way. They like all other people unless given reason to dislike them. But some of us are more misanthropic. Sad to say, my stance is to be indifferent to you unless you give me a reason to like you. It doesn't make any difference if you're family or not. And a "sufficient reason to like you" isn't that you're nice or polite or interesting. You and I just have to click somehow. It's chemistry. I wish I was more open and gregarious. But I'm not, and there are many others like me. Friendlier people don't get us.

Finally, it can be (a) a real pain to have company over, and (b) a colossal pain to have your parents over (even if you love them dearly). If you LIKE having company -- or if you dislike it but consider it your duty -- then you won't understand this.

My wife and I rarely entertain. We like not having to clean our apartment, and we like having a private place we can come to after a long day at work. (My parents entertain, and we go without inviting them back. Selfish, I guess, but I always assumed they entertain because they LIKE to and would stop if they didn't.)

It REALLY sucks to have someone stay with us. When we're alone, we can walk around naked or whatever. We can tell offensive jokes. When someone is staying with us, we have to change our lifestyle. It's tiring. Again, if hosting has always been a part of your life, you probably won't get how strongly non-hosts feel about this.

When you made a decision to have children (or to marry into a family with children), you essentially committed to a lifetime of hosting. As a childless husband, I do not feel bound to host. It's one of many reasons I choose not to have kids.

By the way, most of my 30 and 40-something friends don't host very often. We socialize by meeting at bars and restaurants. Hosting is just not part of our culture.

About hosting parents specifically: I've NEVER met a child who is 100% himself around his parents. We all have acts we put on around our folks. We pretend to be less sexual than we are; we pretend we don't smoke; we pretend we're more religious than we are; etc. Even the people with the most open-minded parents in the world pretend -- at least in my experience. This is not all about sneaking around and living a lie. It's partly about not wanting to hurt people of an other generation who simply don't need to know all the sordid details of our lives.

It's not all that bad to hide stuff when you visit your folks. You're on their turf, and you understand the "their house; their rules" rule. But no one wants to live a lie in his own house.

When my parents come to visit, my dad is continually giving me safety tips: "you know, you shouldn't leave the handles of pots and pans sticking out over the edge of the stove." I love him dearly, but it's tiresome. My adult friends don't patronize me in my own house. Only my parents to that. I don't blame them for it. I accept it. But I can understand why someone else might not want it.

Please understand I'm NOT trying tell you how your kids are right and you're wrong. Your kids sound like snotty little bastards to me. But I'm trying to give you some clue as to what might be going on from their point of view.
posted by grumblebee at 12:08 PM on May 6, 2009 [3 favorites]

palmcorder_yajna raises some excellent points about context. The man you know as your SO is not the same man that they know as a father. I pull out two examples from your reply as illustration:

No doubt his workaholic ways play into the family dynamics and caused trouble..but (sorry if this sounds defensive) he was really trying to be a good family man and to work and provide like his father did.

Really, who doesn't understand that having a solo show of your work is an unprecedented honor?? He is modest and it seemed right for me to ask them (which I did..!!)

It is possible that their dad's inner life is not something that they are comfortable understanding, since he wasn't around much when they were children. Did he attend their school plays, recitals, listen to them talk about their sticker collections, remember their middle-school crush, etc., or was he too busy working? People often internalize childhood hurts in ways that, if examined, would seem ridiculous.

I'm not defending the kids' behavior. (I proudly attend my mom's choir concerts and indulge my dad in bragging about his new hobby. And I started taking over the holiday entertaining while still in college, partially because it was getting tiresome for my mom and was sucking the fun out of it. I am seriously not projecting here.) But being an adult child is a weird and complicated thing sometimes. Parents invite their children to be somewhat selfish, after all, their baby was once dependent on them. Navigating how to be a good adult and a good kid a the same time does not always come naturally.
posted by desuetude at 1:03 PM on May 6, 2009

She's over 30 years old. I figure she knows that that is up to her.

Relationships are a two-way street.
posted by cmgonzalez at 1:31 PM on May 6, 2009

I mentioned up thread that I'd love to do the inviting if I thought it was welcome from fake dad and the inlaws. But I am not sure that this may be the case with your kids. From what you have responded I can't see how they wouldn't pick up that their fake mom doesn't like them and is really trying to manage their family dynamics.

My fake dad has this very same relationship with his kids (in their 20's), they only call for money or assistance but it stems from the fact that growing up he was working all the time because he thought that his job was to bring home as much money as possible, teach them to drive and the kid's mother would provide all the emotional support for their development. With the mother now gone, they have NO emotional relationship with their dad. The only success that she has had with them is just encouraging fake dad to be a better father to his own kids and she gives them plenty of space and time to be together with out her. As the father reconnects with his children they are happier with both of them.

Also, I'd suggest that you are NEVER the contact between your SO and his kids. You may encourage him to reach out, but don't do it yourself. I like my fake dad because he makes my mom happy, if he tried to get me to change my relationship with my mom in anyway, or tried to be the go-between, I'd hate him. I know that my fake sibs feel this way about my mom too.
posted by saradarlin at 3:29 PM on May 6, 2009

You seem to have very strict ideas of how you and others should behave, and you seem to be judgmental of people, including your partner's children, who don't conform to your expectations.

Not everyone believes that invitations to important events ought to come from someone other than the person to whom the event is important. Not everyone believes that gifts from parents to their children need to be reciprocated in kind. Not everyone believes that a workaholic who shows his love for his children through providing material security is the best dad a child could ever ask for. And certainly not everyone believes that hosting social events in one's home is a requirement in polite society.

The more you respond, the more your question seems to be turning into, "Why don't my selfish, ungrateful, rude, boorish stepchildren behave towards me the way I think they should?"

The answer to that question may be that they are indeed selfish idiots, in which case it would be foolish of you to expect them to behave well (and if they have such poor manners, perhaps you should look to the person who raised them to explain why). The answer could also be that they dislike you personally (and frankly, I'd dislike someone who felt about me the way that you feel about them). But it could also be that your expectations for them are not the expectations that they were raised to conform to, and they mean you no ill will. Don't assume the worst of them, especially since your partner (who should communicate with them himself) has never asked anything else of them.
posted by decathecting at 4:32 PM on May 6, 2009 [3 favorites]

yes, iconomy they are spoiled! I was just thinking about how many of the posters here have called me a bitch. Ya.I'm just such a bitch ...buying presents and feeding this lot for ten years. Oh, What a BITCH! lol lol. Yeah, I am trying to cause sooo much trouble with all the gifts and occasions. Good to know!

So I am not at all calling you a bitch, but what you said makes no sense to me... it's perfectly possible to buy presents and host occasions and provide food and money, and to still be "a bitch"/an unpleasant, nasty, mean person/etc.

I'm not saying you are (a bitch/unpleasant/etc), but if you are expecting to be liked because of what you do for them rather than based on what your personality is like and how you interact on a human and personal level, you're bound to be disappointed because most people don't (and shouldn't) decide who they like and care about based on how much money/food/hospitality they receive from them. (Those things can sometimes be a symbol of a person's generous and caring heart, in which case they might help build an emotional connection-- but they can also be a result of all sorts of less loving and lovable motives, from a feeling of duty or obligation, to a look-how-generous-I-am show, to a tit-for-tat "now you owe me X because of what I did for you." Again, I'm not saying you're necessarily doing it based on those motives, but they might be seeing it that way.)
posted by EmilyClimbs at 6:29 PM on May 6, 2009

If you have not raised any children and come from a "terrible childhood" then you have no experience of what it is to be a parent, and perhaps had no good role models to emulate. You say your SO is a "lovable" dad. I take this to mean that he is expressive with his children. Jokes with them. Talks about what's important to them. How do they react to him face to face? Surely they aren't sitting there with their arms folded, waiting for him to shut up and hoping some money will fall out of his wallet. Do they get along with each other? Or are the holiday get-togethers one big misery until you break out the presents?

The majority of your complaint appears to be that they didn't attend their dad's photography show, don't invite you to dinner, and that they like gifts. Of the three, the only one I'm even remotely in agreement with is that none of them were able to make the time to attend their father's show. Not everyone entertains. Most everyone likes gifts. What I think we're missing is how they get along with their father.

If the kids are so grabby, why did his daughter not ask for you and your husband to help them move into their new place? Did she not want his opinion on the house? Did she not want any help painting or any of those other things that Dads often do for their daughters? It seems extremely out of place that Dad is so wonderful and kind and yet the daughter only came looking for money. Sometimes people reject a step parent out of misguided loyalty, but it is very odd indeed to see a child reject a parent that is always there for them with a gift card, a loan and an I love you.

Your initial question was "can you tell me what you would do in my place?" If I planned to remain with my SO, I would continue to be supportive of his relationship with his children. If he enjoyed spending birthdays and the holidays with the kids, then I would continue to facilitate those events, if only for him. You will not be punishing the children by sending them away. You will be punishing your SO.

I would never call and invite myself to their homes. I might suggest to my SO that his daughter may like one of his photographs (assuming they're appropriate for the purpose) for her new home and encourage him to ask her if the two of you might drop by with a housewarming gift. I would make my stay very brief.

I would allow my SO to make all decisions regarding the kids, whether it has to do with parties or gifts or whatever. I would let him do all the communicating.

Most importantly, I would take a step back and realize that my bitterness might well be getting in the way of his relationship with his children. If you continually point out to him that his children are ungrateful and miserable then you are not only wallowing in this negativity, but you are drowning him in it as well. Whatever you have heard about their family history is one-sided, so you should not assume you understand the situation.

Allow your SO to direct the amount of communication with his children and be supportive of his decisions and, at the very minimum, behave the way you'd expect them to behave. I think that's your role here.
posted by contrariwise at 6:44 PM on May 6, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm just such a bitch ...buying presents and feeding this lot for ten years. Oh, What a BITCH! lol lol.

Now I'm confused -- why are you buying presents for 'this lot'?

Now I wonder if the kids are not perfectly nice people who are being the polite ones here by showing up to their absentee father's girlfriend's pestering invitations to events where they are forced to feign glee over acrylic sweaters and stuff cooked with canned soup...
posted by kmennie at 3:19 PM on May 7, 2009

I am new to Metafilter..and I love the ask feature because all my ("blood") family is dead and gone. It seems in the old timey days we had a lot of advice given to us by our family and since I am plum out of family I was happy to find this place. I learned a lot from asking this question and I consider the matter resolved. (I am no longer going to host holidays).

Asking the question and finding out how many of the people who answered quickly jumped on me for all my flaws was interesting. Several of you have really horrid step mothers and I guess you really like to lump them up into one group. Lots of you saw my question as an opportunity to show off your great generation me skills--like:

"Now I wonder if the kids are not perfectly nice people who are being the polite ones here by showing up to their absentee father's girlfriend's pestering invitations to events where they are forced to feign glee over acrylic sweaters and stuff cooked with canned soup.."

That was the RUDEST most unhelpful comment of all and if there was their was a (-) negative feature to award it I would. Glad that you could polish your "edgy" writing skills...good for you. Believe me I have never "pestered," gave out an acrylic sweater or cooked with canned soup. But hey, glad to provide an opportunity for you to feel better about yourself at my expense.

In conclusion--I am happy I heard from so many people my step-children's age. It solidified what I think of S.O.'s offspring and made me remember that when I was their age I didn't invite people over either. I forgot that.

Thanks to those who sought to provide real solutions to my dilemma with actual suggestions...to the rest of you who saw the question as an opportunity to turn me into Candy Spelling ...pound sand.
posted by naplesyellow at 6:55 AM on June 9, 2009 [1 favorite]