I enjoyed The Wire and The Sopranos is it likely I'll also enjoy Deadwood?
April 6, 2009 9:44 PM Subscribe
I enjoyed The Wire and The Sopranos is it likely I'll also enjoy Deadwood?
Did you enjoy both but not Deadwood? If so, what put you off?
Did you enjoy both but not Deadwood? If so, what put you off?
I liked all three. The only thing I disliked about Deadwood was the fact that HBO canceled it after only 3 seasons :(
And having just recently completed all 5 seasons of The Wire, if anything I think Deadwood gets going faster.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 9:51 PM on April 6, 2009
And having just recently completed all 5 seasons of The Wire, if anything I think Deadwood gets going faster.
posted by DiscourseMarker at 9:51 PM on April 6, 2009
Response by poster: Glad you said that, because I have watched (part of) the first episode and was not sure whether it'd be worth my while.
posted by =^^= at 9:51 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by =^^= at 9:51 PM on April 6, 2009
(and I presume that since you liked The Sopranos & The Wire, profanity doesn't bother you. Cause, um, they swear A LOT in Deadwood.)
posted by DiscourseMarker at 9:53 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by DiscourseMarker at 9:53 PM on April 6, 2009
You're not going to find many "no" answers, and for a simple reason - they're all superlative television
posted by Neiltupper at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by Neiltupper at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2009
absolutely i loved it. i reckon there's a good chance you will too. wonderfully despicable, monstrous characters that you soon grow to love and feel great loyalty to. marvellously obscene shakespearean dialogue with such depth and atmosphere. intricately woven storylines that develop and expand over the course of seasons- really powerfully involving television (/dvd). al swearingen is my hero.
a great show, easily comparable to the sopranos and the wire- complex, character driven human drama about the dregs of society, and the weird honour among it's denizens. add it to your list of things to watch for sure!
you'll be calling everyone "cocksucker!" in no time.
posted by Philby at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
a great show, easily comparable to the sopranos and the wire- complex, character driven human drama about the dregs of society, and the weird honour among it's denizens. add it to your list of things to watch for sure!
you'll be calling everyone "cocksucker!" in no time.
posted by Philby at 9:54 PM on April 6, 2009 [3 favorites]
I watched The Sopranos and The Wire all the way through because to me, they felt authentic, being contemporary with their writers. I couldn't get the same feeling of authenticity with Deadwood, because I felt like the writers weren't dealing effectively with the "nitty gritty" details of living in Deadwood, Montana in the late 19th century. Other than that, the series seemed pretty entertaining, with good character development.
posted by telstar at 10:05 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by telstar at 10:05 PM on April 6, 2009
Hard to answer because for me The Sopranos and The Wire are so vastly different. The Wire was so utterly grounded in reality (well, until the very end), while the Sopranos had a little smell of winking at the audience and was quite clearly fiction.
The Wire I think is one of the top two or three best tv shows in the history of the medium. Sopranos was a'ight.
Deadwood bordered on unwatchable for me. Frankly it reminded me of the Gilmore Girls. Just talking talking and more talking and the characters didn't sound like human beings- they sounded like writers trying to write impressive dialogue. For a show centered around violent conflict, I found it staggeringly boring.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:28 PM on April 6, 2009
The Wire I think is one of the top two or three best tv shows in the history of the medium. Sopranos was a'ight.
Deadwood bordered on unwatchable for me. Frankly it reminded me of the Gilmore Girls. Just talking talking and more talking and the characters didn't sound like human beings- they sounded like writers trying to write impressive dialogue. For a show centered around violent conflict, I found it staggeringly boring.
posted by drjimmy11 at 10:28 PM on April 6, 2009
Deadwood is worth watching just for Al Swearingen. Other than that, Deadwood Pancakes sums drjimmy11's (and my) issues with the language and writing (except my cat's name is now hooplehead).
posted by hobu at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2009
posted by hobu at 10:36 PM on April 6, 2009
I lurved The Wire and loved Sopranos, and I liked Deadwood very much though got a little impatient with the wandering storylines of the last half.
It's top notch TV even if you don't think it's among the best TV ever. Really though, you don't have much of a choice. McNulty's gone, and Tony's gone, where else you gonna go?
posted by bluejayk at 11:01 PM on April 6, 2009
It's top notch TV even if you don't think it's among the best TV ever. Really though, you don't have much of a choice. McNulty's gone, and Tony's gone, where else you gonna go?
posted by bluejayk at 11:01 PM on April 6, 2009
I didn't like the first episode much either, but by the second episode, I was hooked. Now that I have watched all three seasons, I can honestly say of those shows you mentioned, I loved Deadwood the best. They are all good, but there was something about Deadwood that really grabbed me.
It helps that I am fascinated by that period of history, and I am very interested in themes of law/lawlessness and morality. I also felt that all the main characters, male and female, were well-written and complex--an unfortunate rarity in TV land.
I agree with drjimmy11 and hobu that the dialogue is stylized, rather than naturalistic, but it didn't really bother me. YMMV.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2009
It helps that I am fascinated by that period of history, and I am very interested in themes of law/lawlessness and morality. I also felt that all the main characters, male and female, were well-written and complex--an unfortunate rarity in TV land.
I agree with drjimmy11 and hobu that the dialogue is stylized, rather than naturalistic, but it didn't really bother me. YMMV.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:11 PM on April 6, 2009
Deadwood is the greatest tv show ever made.
I'd take it over The Wire and Sopranos combined. Sopranos was excellent for 2 seasons, so-so for a season and a half, then an utter bore. The Wire was great for three of five seasons (2 and 5 sucked). Deadwood is fantastic beginning to end. I've watched it 4 times all the way through--there has never been a show that juggled that much conflict and had that many fleshed out characters. Sopranos had more characters but so many of them are half-people or caricatures. The Wire had some amazing characters but many, many who served as little more than plot devices (Houck and his partner come immediately to mind, as does Prez in the first season, though he got more fleshed out). The bad guys and the kids in The Wire were consistently the reason to watch. The cops and their issues weren't so interesting.
Deadwood has no dead wood, so to speak. Even "minor" characters like Drunk Steve, Tom Nuttal, Wu, Johnny Burns, Leon, and Richardson, are fascinating. There's a real sense that when these characters are not on screen, they are living their lives. I didn't get that impression watching Chris, Big Pussy, Pauly Walnuts, etc--and those were *major* characters. I liked them (for the most part) when they were onscreen, but rarely would I find myself thinking, "I wonder what Pauly's doing" or "I wish Chris had more screen time". Same goes for the majority of the cops and non-bad guys on The Wire. I did do that with almost every character on Deadwood.
Yes, the language can be a bit of a barrier (and I don't mean the cursing, which you'll become used to) but I don't agree that it's flowery for flowery's sake. Milch has argued that those that were literate in those times were steeped in stories from the bible, Shakespeare, and Dickens. Their sense of drama and relationships, when they had any at all that came from outside their own lives, was dense and convoluted and he reflected that in the way they talked.
Absolutely Milch is an extremely well-read man and his influences are apparent throughout the show--but these are gems, imo. These references are what raise Deadwood to heights that other shows just cannot touch. I remember being floored, months after seeing it for the first time, when I realized that Drunk Steve referring to "the very blackness of it" (regarding his hate for blacks) was an allusion to Melville's writing of the whiteness of the whale being among the things that drove Ahab--it's very essence driving his monomania. Not too often you're on a subway reading a book written 165 years ago and you cheer at your understanding of something you saw on a television show 3 months back.
If you give your time and attention to Deadwood it will pay you back in spades.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:23 PM on April 6, 2009 [9 favorites]
I'd take it over The Wire and Sopranos combined. Sopranos was excellent for 2 seasons, so-so for a season and a half, then an utter bore. The Wire was great for three of five seasons (2 and 5 sucked). Deadwood is fantastic beginning to end. I've watched it 4 times all the way through--there has never been a show that juggled that much conflict and had that many fleshed out characters. Sopranos had more characters but so many of them are half-people or caricatures. The Wire had some amazing characters but many, many who served as little more than plot devices (Houck and his partner come immediately to mind, as does Prez in the first season, though he got more fleshed out). The bad guys and the kids in The Wire were consistently the reason to watch. The cops and their issues weren't so interesting.
Deadwood has no dead wood, so to speak. Even "minor" characters like Drunk Steve, Tom Nuttal, Wu, Johnny Burns, Leon, and Richardson, are fascinating. There's a real sense that when these characters are not on screen, they are living their lives. I didn't get that impression watching Chris, Big Pussy, Pauly Walnuts, etc--and those were *major* characters. I liked them (for the most part) when they were onscreen, but rarely would I find myself thinking, "I wonder what Pauly's doing" or "I wish Chris had more screen time". Same goes for the majority of the cops and non-bad guys on The Wire. I did do that with almost every character on Deadwood.
Yes, the language can be a bit of a barrier (and I don't mean the cursing, which you'll become used to) but I don't agree that it's flowery for flowery's sake. Milch has argued that those that were literate in those times were steeped in stories from the bible, Shakespeare, and Dickens. Their sense of drama and relationships, when they had any at all that came from outside their own lives, was dense and convoluted and he reflected that in the way they talked.
Absolutely Milch is an extremely well-read man and his influences are apparent throughout the show--but these are gems, imo. These references are what raise Deadwood to heights that other shows just cannot touch. I remember being floored, months after seeing it for the first time, when I realized that Drunk Steve referring to "the very blackness of it" (regarding his hate for blacks) was an allusion to Melville's writing of the whiteness of the whale being among the things that drove Ahab--it's very essence driving his monomania. Not too often you're on a subway reading a book written 165 years ago and you cheer at your understanding of something you saw on a television show 3 months back.
If you give your time and attention to Deadwood it will pay you back in spades.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:23 PM on April 6, 2009 [9 favorites]
I LOVED the Sopranos but haven't gotten around to seeing The Wire.
Deadwood, however, had one good character - the one played by Ian McShane. The rest of the characters were either annoying or a bore.
Further, despite its reputation as being "gritty" and whatnot the show had a very conventional moral tone to it I didn't care for.
posted by thelettere at 11:23 PM on April 6, 2009
Deadwood, however, had one good character - the one played by Ian McShane. The rest of the characters were either annoying or a bore.
Further, despite its reputation as being "gritty" and whatnot the show had a very conventional moral tone to it I didn't care for.
posted by thelettere at 11:23 PM on April 6, 2009
I found Deadwood the best television show of the last twenty years, richly drawn, rewarding, and hugely ambitious. The artificial-sounding dialogue seems quickly to be the only language appropriate to the subject, which is a measure of its success, the production values are scintillating, and there's plenty of humour, albeit of the gallows variety.
But then I like things like Epic Theatre, Meyerhold, playing against type and so forth. I also like The Sopranos.
posted by Wolof at 11:37 PM on April 6, 2009
But then I like things like Epic Theatre, Meyerhold, playing against type and so forth. I also like The Sopranos.
posted by Wolof at 11:37 PM on April 6, 2009
I'm probably way in the minority here, but like You Should See the Other Guy, I liked Deadwood better than the other two.
Digression time: it's absolutely brilliant that Molly Parker is in Deadwood, because she was also in this. Dead. Wood. Get it? aw, nevermind.
posted by juv3nal at 1:36 AM on April 7, 2009
Digression time: it's absolutely brilliant that Molly Parker is in Deadwood, because she was also in this. Dead. Wood. Get it? aw, nevermind.
posted by juv3nal at 1:36 AM on April 7, 2009
Loved The Wire to the point of worship (it's currently being broadcast on terrestrial in the UK and I'm loving all over again). Mostly enjoyed The Sopranos (there were a few dips in quality) but watched it through to the end. But Deadwood...? Well I watched the first series and pretty much enjoyed it, but after hearing it was canceled without a proper resolution I've not made the effort to go back to it (which would me the hurdle of renting DVDs or 'other means' for me now)... but if, by some miracle, they stuck it on terrestrial here I'd probably tune in.
(Digression - If you enjoyed Wire and Sopranos, and you've not done so already, check out The Shield - it's a slightly different beast, but well worth checking out)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:10 AM on April 7, 2009
(Digression - If you enjoyed Wire and Sopranos, and you've not done so already, check out The Shield - it's a slightly different beast, but well worth checking out)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:10 AM on April 7, 2009
Another digression, but if you loved the Wire you should definitely check out Generation Kill, also by David Simon, Ed Burns and Co. It's very good.
posted by brevator at 3:36 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by brevator at 3:36 AM on April 7, 2009
It does take two or three episodes to get into Deadwood but the rest of the first season is some great TV (I've only just started on season 2). It might be a matter of getting used to Calamity Jane, whom they have dialed up a bit too high, and the narrative doesn't really revolve around Seth Bullock like you think it might. Somehow I didn't realize at first that it was based on historical events and I liked it better after that.
I think you'll probably enjoy or not mind the theatrical conceits of Deadwood that some people are worrying about, because you liked the Sopranos.
One way Deadwood seems to stand out from other shows is that there's a sense of the world moving along with or without the characters; you can feel the pressure on the characters to grow or die. Which is appropriate for a town in gold rush. So far I'm definitely feeling that there's Something There.
And the theme music is good. I don't know if I could've taken another version of way down in the fuckin' hole.
Finally, seconding the Shield. The Shield is watchable and fun, a little forgettable, trying a little hard to be gritty sometimes, but it's admirable in the way it creates crazy situations and gets out of them. It's a bit more towards the "shut your brain off" side of entertainment than the Wire and Deadwood, but worth watching.
posted by fleacircus at 3:53 AM on April 7, 2009
I think you'll probably enjoy or not mind the theatrical conceits of Deadwood that some people are worrying about, because you liked the Sopranos.
One way Deadwood seems to stand out from other shows is that there's a sense of the world moving along with or without the characters; you can feel the pressure on the characters to grow or die. Which is appropriate for a town in gold rush. So far I'm definitely feeling that there's Something There.
And the theme music is good. I don't know if I could've taken another version of way down in the fuckin' hole.
Finally, seconding the Shield. The Shield is watchable and fun, a little forgettable, trying a little hard to be gritty sometimes, but it's admirable in the way it creates crazy situations and gets out of them. It's a bit more towards the "shut your brain off" side of entertainment than the Wire and Deadwood, but worth watching.
posted by fleacircus at 3:53 AM on April 7, 2009
To me, Deadwood is second only to The Wire - utter genius all the way through, and simply criminal that it was axed prematurely.
It was the end of the 4th episode of the first series when it really struck home how special it was - get that far into it, and I guarantee you won't look back.
And once you've made your way through all the other suggestions upthread, both seasons of Carnivale are worth a look too.
posted by anagrama at 4:23 AM on April 7, 2009
It was the end of the 4th episode of the first series when it really struck home how special it was - get that far into it, and I guarantee you won't look back.
And once you've made your way through all the other suggestions upthread, both seasons of Carnivale are worth a look too.
posted by anagrama at 4:23 AM on April 7, 2009
Oh Deadwood is even better.
It took me 4 episodes to get into it. Then I canceled plans, did not shower, and forgot to eat for an entire weekend while I watched almost the entire thing. This was only halted by friends performing an intervention. Best show that's ever been on television, in my opinion.
posted by meerkatty at 4:29 AM on April 7, 2009
It took me 4 episodes to get into it. Then I canceled plans, did not shower, and forgot to eat for an entire weekend while I watched almost the entire thing. This was only halted by friends performing an intervention. Best show that's ever been on television, in my opinion.
posted by meerkatty at 4:29 AM on April 7, 2009
I liked The Sopranos but I absolutely loved both The Wire and Deadwood.
posted by Quizicalcoatl at 4:29 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by Quizicalcoatl at 4:29 AM on April 7, 2009
Deadwood is worth watching. It took us 4 episodes before we really knew who the main characters were, but after that, it's a bit less confusing. I guess if I knew my Wild West history, I might have caught on a little sooner, but it's definitely a great show.
posted by explosion at 4:35 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by explosion at 4:35 AM on April 7, 2009
By the last season of Deadwood, I was on the edge of my seat for every single scene, just to see which two characters would get to interact next. Every single piece of dialogue was like crack to me, and the caliber of the talent is unparalleled. It didn't matter to me that the main storyline had gotten a little rambly at the end (Milch says it would have been resolved in season four) because I was just so fascinated by every single damn actor. Even people who grated on me a bit at the beginning (Molly Parker's character is pretty tiresome in the first season) ended up kicking my ass.
And every time I see one of them in something else, I'm consistently disappointed with the banality of the dialog and direction they've been handed. Nothing seems as good to me. Kim Dickens being weepy on Lost? Ian McShane on Kings (although he's still pretty fucking majestic)? Everyone else on...pretty much nothing? I weep.
Anyway, yeah, watch Deadwood.
posted by bcwinters at 5:28 AM on April 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
And every time I see one of them in something else, I'm consistently disappointed with the banality of the dialog and direction they've been handed. Nothing seems as good to me. Kim Dickens being weepy on Lost? Ian McShane on Kings (although he's still pretty fucking majestic)? Everyone else on...pretty much nothing? I weep.
Anyway, yeah, watch Deadwood.
posted by bcwinters at 5:28 AM on April 7, 2009 [4 favorites]
Nthing the recommendation to watch it. I started watching it recently and finished the first season a few days ago. Deadwood covered so much ground just in the first season; most TV dramas would take two or three years to build up such a dense web of story.
posted by metaquarry at 5:47 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by metaquarry at 5:47 AM on April 7, 2009
I adored The Wire and loved The Sopranos.
After four episodes of the first series, I still hated Deadwood: disliked the characters, not a fan of westerns, found the whole thing crass. Oh, and I bought the first series on DVD, so I tried harder with it than I normally would.
posted by maryrosecook at 7:12 AM on April 7, 2009
After four episodes of the first series, I still hated Deadwood: disliked the characters, not a fan of westerns, found the whole thing crass. Oh, and I bought the first series on DVD, so I tried harder with it than I normally would.
posted by maryrosecook at 7:12 AM on April 7, 2009
I liked the entire run of Wire and the early parts of the Sopranos. I even liked Rome and Dexter (which I'd also recommend). But when my roommate tried to get me to watch Deadwood, I just couldn't sit through more than half an hour.
The dialogue is atrocious. It's like they took the script, strung it out page-by-page on a clothesline, fired 300 rounds of birdshot at it and patched up the holes with profanity.
I like westerns and I can handle profanity (when it's at least relevant!) but I'm waiting for a network cable channel like A&E to pick it up and do the job the editors should have done in the first place.
posted by Ziggy Zaga at 8:04 AM on April 7, 2009
The dialogue is atrocious. It's like they took the script, strung it out page-by-page on a clothesline, fired 300 rounds of birdshot at it and patched up the holes with profanity.
I like westerns and I can handle profanity (when it's at least relevant!) but I'm waiting for a network cable channel like A&E to pick it up and do the job the editors should have done in the first place.
posted by Ziggy Zaga at 8:04 AM on April 7, 2009
I'm waiting for a network cable channel like A&E to pick it up and do the job the editors should have done in the first place.
This'll never happen. In addition, that's not the job of an editor.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 8:17 AM on April 7, 2009
This'll never happen. In addition, that's not the job of an editor.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 8:17 AM on April 7, 2009
Agreed with those that said the first episode was difficult to get into. I had no interest in watching episode two, but husband forced me, and after that I was hooked. Deadwood, Sopranos, The Wire and 6 feet under (except for the last season) were 4 of my all time favorite shows.
posted by delladlux at 9:37 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by delladlux at 9:37 AM on April 7, 2009
Wire & Sopranos=Nos. 1 & 2 in our all-time-favs list.
Deadwood (and Milch's other series, John from Cincinatti, or something)= Unwatchable
Main reason (in addition to great characters and compelling stories): Both W and S were, to us, superb examples of unstylized realism/naturalism, esp. re: dialog and production design.
I.e, to our tastes, they're very UN-tv-like, while most tv we try to watch seems very stylized, too-clever/cute, straining for hipness and originality, and we mostly can't stand it, altho there are certainly some shows with stylizations that we eventually start to find charming.
But Deadwood seemed to us like nothing more than extreme tv, going shamelessly for shock, grossness, pointlessly extreme anger and violence and surprise at every turn, and when NOT shocking, settling into the most basic kind of feels-like-tv routines. W and S always seemed to us like the best sort of realist fiction, to the extent that we loved every minute, regardless of season or plot, even as we rose or fell in how we liked the current episode. We HATED Deadwood. (and John from…) And Carnivale, and BSG, and so many others…
But of course, you'll have to see for yourself.
posted by dpcoffin at 10:19 AM on April 7, 2009
Deadwood (and Milch's other series, John from Cincinatti, or something)= Unwatchable
Main reason (in addition to great characters and compelling stories): Both W and S were, to us, superb examples of unstylized realism/naturalism, esp. re: dialog and production design.
I.e, to our tastes, they're very UN-tv-like, while most tv we try to watch seems very stylized, too-clever/cute, straining for hipness and originality, and we mostly can't stand it, altho there are certainly some shows with stylizations that we eventually start to find charming.
But Deadwood seemed to us like nothing more than extreme tv, going shamelessly for shock, grossness, pointlessly extreme anger and violence and surprise at every turn, and when NOT shocking, settling into the most basic kind of feels-like-tv routines. W and S always seemed to us like the best sort of realist fiction, to the extent that we loved every minute, regardless of season or plot, even as we rose or fell in how we liked the current episode. We HATED Deadwood. (and John from…) And Carnivale, and BSG, and so many others…
But of course, you'll have to see for yourself.
posted by dpcoffin at 10:19 AM on April 7, 2009
Give it a few eps and then love it as I have. Just got home the Safe-Box set with the whole shebang plus poker chips and cards. It's very stylised, but if you've got the hang of it after a couple eps, then you are golden. Run it with captions to start with if you need to.
Fleacircus puts it very well saying that you can feel time running out from the first episode. Civilisation is nipping at their heels and their way of life is coming to an end.
The contrasts and contradictions are what got me most I think. I loved how, with coarseness (tittylicker!), whores and nekkidness through most of every episode, they manage nearly set the screen on fire with a single glance between the two "romantic leads" (trying not to spoil!). More contrasts with Sweggin and the priest, and pretty much everyone else in the show.
posted by Iteki at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2009
Fleacircus puts it very well saying that you can feel time running out from the first episode. Civilisation is nipping at their heels and their way of life is coming to an end.
The contrasts and contradictions are what got me most I think. I loved how, with coarseness (tittylicker!), whores and nekkidness through most of every episode, they manage nearly set the screen on fire with a single glance between the two "romantic leads" (trying not to spoil!). More contrasts with Sweggin and the priest, and pretty much everyone else in the show.
posted by Iteki at 1:34 PM on April 7, 2009
I am with the folks who love Deadwood here. Great characters, great actors playing those characters, and just an all-around amazing show. As someone who hates awful writer-ly dialogue, I LOVE the way everyone talks on Deadwood - I can't say it's realistic, but it just works for me. I don't think I will ever forgive Milch for abandoning the show and leaving so much unresolved, which is even worse because he did it just to work on (in my opinion) the completely stupid John from Cincinatti.
FWIW, I also love the Wire, and liked Sopranos pretty well for a few seasons.
posted by sluggo at 4:13 PM on April 7, 2009
FWIW, I also love the Wire, and liked Sopranos pretty well for a few seasons.
posted by sluggo at 4:13 PM on April 7, 2009
I don't think I will ever forgive Milch for abandoning the show and leaving so much unresolved, which is even worse because he did it just to work on (in my opinion) the completely stupid John from Cincinatti.
For the record, here's what happened, to my understanding. Deadwood was mostly operating at a loss, or, at the least, making very little profit. It's an expensive show (period costumes, severe makeup on all extras, horses, sets, etc.). HBO decided to kill the show before its promised 4th season. Milch protested and was told that if he went along with it, they would allow him to do any show he wanted as long as it wasn't period. The show was going to be cancelled anyway--the ball was in Milch's court whether he would tow the line with HBO and say he had other interests, or, if he outted them as being the reason for the cancellation, he could take JFC to another network. Figuring that he had no choice, and that he wanted to make JFC, he stated in interviews that it was a mutual decision. At the same time, he felt miserable about it.
While JFC was airing, and it was clear that HBO was gonna pull the plug on it as well, Milch started slowly leaking the truth until, he would flat out say, "they cancelled the show".
Anyone who listens to the commentaries on the later season DVDs, or watches the extras on the bonus disc on the complete Deadwood DVD set, will easily see how much it hurt Milch to not be able to finish the show. He looks like he's gonna cry at one point while he's walking around the set--in addition, he chides the HBO execs on the JFC commentaries and calls them soulless motherfuckers or something like that (I can't recall).
Though HBO had promised him he could make two 2 hour concluding episodes to Deadwood, they recanted when Chris Albrecht, Milch's friend and the CEO and Chairman of HBO, was arrested for domestic abuse and immediately fired. Without Albrecht, Milch had no sway. The two specials were cancelled. What sucks is that some performers, McShane in particular, had said that they would have done them for free.
Personally, I think JFC is a masterpiece. I wish it had had its full run but it is perhaps the most original tv show I've ever seen. Truly, I know of no narrative series that attempted to tackle similar themes in similar ways. I'll admit that it is extremely dense, complicated, and complex, but I think it is severely under-rated.
These days HBO is hurting badly--they really have no quality programs on at the moment. As a result, David Chase and David Milch are both returning to the network. They're also both making period programs (Milch said during the writers' strike that he would never make another contemporary television show)--Milch's is a 70s cop drama about police corruption. He also tried to get them to greenlight a tv show about the creation of American medicine, filtered through the creation of Johns Hopkins. He talks about this, and a bazillion other things, in the 7 or so hours of late 2007 lectures available here.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 8:26 PM on April 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
For the record, here's what happened, to my understanding. Deadwood was mostly operating at a loss, or, at the least, making very little profit. It's an expensive show (period costumes, severe makeup on all extras, horses, sets, etc.). HBO decided to kill the show before its promised 4th season. Milch protested and was told that if he went along with it, they would allow him to do any show he wanted as long as it wasn't period. The show was going to be cancelled anyway--the ball was in Milch's court whether he would tow the line with HBO and say he had other interests, or, if he outted them as being the reason for the cancellation, he could take JFC to another network. Figuring that he had no choice, and that he wanted to make JFC, he stated in interviews that it was a mutual decision. At the same time, he felt miserable about it.
While JFC was airing, and it was clear that HBO was gonna pull the plug on it as well, Milch started slowly leaking the truth until, he would flat out say, "they cancelled the show".
Anyone who listens to the commentaries on the later season DVDs, or watches the extras on the bonus disc on the complete Deadwood DVD set, will easily see how much it hurt Milch to not be able to finish the show. He looks like he's gonna cry at one point while he's walking around the set--in addition, he chides the HBO execs on the JFC commentaries and calls them soulless motherfuckers or something like that (I can't recall).
Though HBO had promised him he could make two 2 hour concluding episodes to Deadwood, they recanted when Chris Albrecht, Milch's friend and the CEO and Chairman of HBO, was arrested for domestic abuse and immediately fired. Without Albrecht, Milch had no sway. The two specials were cancelled. What sucks is that some performers, McShane in particular, had said that they would have done them for free.
Personally, I think JFC is a masterpiece. I wish it had had its full run but it is perhaps the most original tv show I've ever seen. Truly, I know of no narrative series that attempted to tackle similar themes in similar ways. I'll admit that it is extremely dense, complicated, and complex, but I think it is severely under-rated.
These days HBO is hurting badly--they really have no quality programs on at the moment. As a result, David Chase and David Milch are both returning to the network. They're also both making period programs (Milch said during the writers' strike that he would never make another contemporary television show)--Milch's is a 70s cop drama about police corruption. He also tried to get them to greenlight a tv show about the creation of American medicine, filtered through the creation of Johns Hopkins. He talks about this, and a bazillion other things, in the 7 or so hours of late 2007 lectures available here.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 8:26 PM on April 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
Fancy you ask that, I'm watching an episode in season two right now. I just got into it last week, and the first episode or two was a bit of culture shock for me--coming right off of rewatching Mad Men, I was looking out for anachronisms and paying more attention to the "period piece" quality than to the work being set forth.
Deadwood is incredible in that it builds this great tapestry of highly complicated story arcs and very, very Machiavellian maneuvering. It's exceptionally cerebral in its fast dialogue and fascinating to watch the brilliant characters play their chess moves on the camp as it grows. It's *really* really good, fun to watch all around, but also just a mind trip and I agree with what Philby said wholeheartedly--you want to hate these people, but the anti-hero thing is done up SO very well that your allegiances change at the drop of a hat, each more dear than the one before. It's really amazing.
Get into it. Give it three or so episodes to see what they're building for you. It's FANTASTIC.
posted by disillusioned at 10:50 PM on April 7, 2009
Deadwood is incredible in that it builds this great tapestry of highly complicated story arcs and very, very Machiavellian maneuvering. It's exceptionally cerebral in its fast dialogue and fascinating to watch the brilliant characters play their chess moves on the camp as it grows. It's *really* really good, fun to watch all around, but also just a mind trip and I agree with what Philby said wholeheartedly--you want to hate these people, but the anti-hero thing is done up SO very well that your allegiances change at the drop of a hat, each more dear than the one before. It's really amazing.
Get into it. Give it three or so episodes to see what they're building for you. It's FANTASTIC.
posted by disillusioned at 10:50 PM on April 7, 2009
I liked The Wire. I liked The Sopranos a little more. I absolutely, 100% loved Deadwood. I would give an organ for those 2 hour specials to have been made. Ian McShane alone makes the show, but the entire cast, down the extras, blew my mind.
posted by saturnine at 11:07 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by saturnine at 11:07 PM on April 7, 2009
Loved The Wire (except the horrible exception of the 5th season) and never really got into The Sopranos.
As far as Deadwood goes, I think it was a very good show that would have been legendary if some of the less-relevant storylines had been removed in the last season. I know Milch thought he had another season to develop things, but some of the storylines, especially in Season3 really had me scratching my head as to why they were even in the show considering the other amazing stuff that was going on.
That said, they are three pretty different shows, and as illustrated above, liking one or two of them does not mean you'll like all three.
posted by elder18 at 9:17 AM on April 8, 2009
As far as Deadwood goes, I think it was a very good show that would have been legendary if some of the less-relevant storylines had been removed in the last season. I know Milch thought he had another season to develop things, but some of the storylines, especially in Season3 really had me scratching my head as to why they were even in the show considering the other amazing stuff that was going on.
That said, they are three pretty different shows, and as illustrated above, liking one or two of them does not mean you'll like all three.
posted by elder18 at 9:17 AM on April 8, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for all your responses, cocksuckers! Both the yeas and the nays convinced me to give it at a least a few more episodes before giving up. Even before the end of the second episode I was hooked. Thank god for the long weekend.
posted by =^^= at 2:14 AM on April 12, 2009
posted by =^^= at 2:14 AM on April 12, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by halogen at 9:48 PM on April 6, 2009