Help me feel better about buying a new laptop.

March 4, 2009 8:44 PM

My computer is having a hardware issue when booting... I think.

Started getting BSODs when booting (Windows XP, SP2). I can't say for certain what the error is since the computer restarts immediately on throwing the error (even with the automatic restart disabled). The error isn't consistent: sometimes windows will boot up fine, and I'll be able to use it normally (I'm typing on it Right! Now!).

Ran memcheck on it, and it passed. Downloaded "The Ultimate Boot CD" and booted from that - I was able to run the basic utilities, but any attempt to boot a disk image that came along with the cd either hung or threw an error.

Furthermore, the system is dual-boot, and I tried booting into the secondary OS (not booted for a couple weeks, no additional software installed for > 1 year) and it also BSODs.

So I'm thinking it's a hardware issue...somewhere. I've ruled out the memory, and the hard drive doesn't seem to have anything to do with it (else why would it hang on booting from cd), so it's probably something on the motherboard, i.e., I need a new laptop. Still, I have this nagging feeling that it *might* be software, somehow, so I'm wondering if there are any other diagnostic steps I should take to convince myself the laptop is (soon to be) toast.

posted by logicpunk to computers & internet (14 comments total)

First of all disable auto restart when xp crashes:

http://www.tweakxp.com/article36976.aspx

and google what the blue screen error says.

I would then test the hard drive with this tool (the free version is fine):

http://www.hdtune.com/

(Go to the error tab of that program and run a scan. If any of the blocks are red, that means you have bad sectors on your hard drive and it should be replaced.)
posted by meta87 at 8:58 PM on March 4

I've had luck with NTFSFIX, if you can get and are willing to try a Knoppix disk. If that's an option for you, it's a good one - you'll at least be able to grab anything you want from the hard drive, since Knoppix, unlike many Linuxes, can mount Windows XP disks. That way at least you can peruse and/or check the file system using a number of tools - and, more importantly, if this is a hardware problem, you can pretty quickly determine the extent of the hardware problem. Like, say, whether you should just order a new hard drive, or a whole new computer.

If you don't do Linux, though, I wouldn't push it.
posted by koeselitz at 8:59 PM on March 4

Also, when you say that UBCD "disk images" didn't boot, do you mean that you tried all of the boot managers? Because at least one of those often works for me, even if the disk is pretty fscked up...
posted by koeselitz at 9:07 PM on March 4

You should definitely try booting with a Linux live CD (Knoppix, or whatever else).

Is this system a desktop or a laptop? If it is a desktop, you need to clean out the CPU fan and the video card fan. Best to do this with a vacuum and a paint brush -- brush to loosen dust, vacuum to keep it out of the air. If it is a laptop, you have to spray some canned air into the grills around the outside edge and on the bottom. You know you've done it right when you see a big puff of dust come out :P
posted by Chuckles at 9:30 PM on March 4

I'm going with heat problems, especially since it's cheap to check. Do the compressed air thing as suggested by Chuckles. Make sure that whatever fans you have are actually spinning.

If you're mechanically inclined, you could open the thing up to do an even better job cleaning out the vents/heat sinks. You could also remove heat sinks and re-apply thermal paste, just in case it has dried up.
posted by IvyMike at 11:58 PM on March 4

Whatever else you do, first make sure you have a backup of any data you cannot do without. As long as you don't know what's happening, treat the machine as if it could permanently and unrecoverably die the next minute.
posted by DreamerFi at 2:13 AM on March 5

Next time it BSODs, try to catch the line that looks like this:

STOP 0X00000004 SOMETHING_HORRIBLE

And google the result.

I'd also suggest finding out the manufacturer of the hard drive and getting their diagnostic program. They sometimes can find issues that other more generic ones won't.

But I'm guessing at memory- if it's intermittent, chances are when you are running the test, the memory is functional. If you only have one DIMM, it's harder to diagnose. But memory isn't terribly expensive, picking up another DIMM might be worth it. Even if it's not the ultimate problem, more memory isn't a bad idea. If you have more than one DIMM, pull out one at a time and see if the problem goes away. I've also seen a problem on notebooks where the DIMM socket goes funny- the computer will start if you push down on the DIMM, and will work just fine if you switch the memory to the other socket. So try each DIMM in each socket. Most all modern computers should be fine with only one DIMM. There is a feature that takes some kind of advantage of having matched pairs, but its not necessary.

Also try removing any adapter cards and/or CD drives. Sometimes they can fail in odd ways that take the computer down, or even just the act of re-seating them fixes something.

(For the uninitiated- the Ultimate Boot CD is a CD full of floppy disk images with a boot manager that somehow lets you choose which floppy image to boot. Great idea in theory, I've found that they rarely work correctly. Not necessarily indicative of a hardware issue.)
posted by gjc at 6:38 AM on March 5

Thanks for the replies thus far. Probably should have been more clear about a couple things:

1) It's a laptop, so there's not much to be done in the way of hardware testing. If it ain't the memory or hard drive, there's not a lot I suspect I could do.

2)As a couple of you have suggested, it would be helpful to read the error - unfortunately it restarts immediately (even when I tell it not to via the boot options, which I'd already tried)

3) From what I've been able to glimpse of the error as it flashes by, its an 0x00000007, which, from googling around, "usually" seems to imply hardware.

4) Memory likely not the problem - it passed two memory diagnostic utilities (memtest86 and windows memory diagnostic) without any problems. It might be the case that during the scan the memory wasn't acting up. I suppose I could leave it running the diagnostic overnight to check, or just replace it.

5) I'm tending not to think it's the hard drive, since it won't boot into a stripped down OS from the Ultimate Boot CD.

however, as gjc points out, that might not be totally 100% reliable, so I'll try knoppix and see if the results are different.

6) I'd considered that it might be overheating, but hadn't explored that much further, since it seems to behave just fine when it's actually makes it through the boot process. Nevertheless, it's something to look into more.
posted by logicpunk at 8:02 AM on March 5

6) I'd considered that it might be overheating, but hadn't explored that much further, since it seems to behave just fine when it's actually makes it through the boot process. Nevertheless, it's something to look into more.

Right, and that was in the question, and I even read it.. Probably not a classic overheating then. Does the battery have much life left? I'd suspect bad power supply in a desktop..

If booting from a live CD is a problem, try it with an external USB CD drive.
posted by Chuckles at 8:15 AM on March 5

Just in case anyone is interested in the continuing saga:

left the laptop running in windows all day while I was out, worked fine when I got back - probably not overheating, but:

blew out the case with compressed air anyway, tried to boot, got the usual bsod, but:

it did stop long enough to give me a look at the error numbers: Stop 0x0000007f (0x00000008, etc). Indicates a double fault according to Microsoft.

Still a bit up in the air about whether its software or hardware underlying the problems. Knoppix works perfectly with the laptop, so I'm backing up my drive in preparation for a wipe and reinstall of windows - we'll see what happens after that.
posted by logicpunk at 6:04 PM on March 5

logicpunk: 5) I'm tending not to think it's the hard drive, since it won't boot into a stripped down OS from the Ultimate Boot CD. however, as gjc points out, that might not be totally 100% reliable, so I'll try knoppix and see if the results are different.

I was going to say: I've never gotten the OS disk images on the UBCD to work, either, so don't rely too heavily on them. Whereas I can't remember the last time I couldn't get the Knoppix disk, which even lets me disable hardware at boot if it seems not to work, to boot at least into some semblance of a working environment.

Knoppix works perfectly with the laptop, so I'm backing up my drive in preparation for a wipe and reinstall of windows - we'll see what happens after that.

That's awesome to hear - at least that narrows it.

Before you wipe you might try the NTFSFIX command from Knoppix, though - at least see if it works. It's been surprisingly useful to me in the past, but who knows what'll happen.

Good luck - let us know how it goes down.
posted by koeselitz at 10:14 PM on March 5

Wiping out the partition of one of the XP installs seems to have solved the problem, so this seems to have been software related all along - but really I have no clue what was causing it. Thanks for the Knoppix suggestion, which let me do one final backup before pulling the trigger on a reinstall. I also tried Fedora 10 Live, which worked beautifully as well.
posted by logicpunk at 9:42 AM on March 10

Hmm. I wouldn't put it past MS to make dual installs of Windows act fluey and crash. That seems like the kind of thing they would frown down their noses at. Maybe it was something about that.
posted by koeselitz at 11:57 PM on March 10

Well, the dual-boot config was stable for two years, so I'd have to give microsoft credit for being way more subtle than I really think they are...
posted by logicpunk at 6:36 AM on March 11