Hire a housekeeper with schizophrenia?

February 22, 2009 6:42 AM

Are we obligated to rehire a household employee with schizophrenia?

For the past four years we have had a housekeeper (legal - we pay taxes) whose duties include watching our school-age kids. She had always been great, and we had no complaints at all. After her father died many months ago, her work started becoming increasingly erratic (one day I found she had put dirty clothes in the dryer, bypassing the washer completely), and her behavior seemed a bit odd. She seemed to sing to herself as she went from room to room (I thought she was wearing an iPod until one day I looked and she was not). She also seemed to be on her cell phone a lot, as I would hear her speaking agitatedly in Spanish to someone - only now I am not so sure she was always on the phone.

On her last day with us, a few minutes after she came to work, she had what can only be described as a major breakdown. She was crying, rambling in spanish, walking in circles, hugging our pets and telling us all she had to go home. We had never seen her in such a state (I don't think I have seen ANYONE in that state before.) I said I thought that was a good idea as she was not well, and she asked us, if she left if we would give her one of our dogs as a "present for her." This all happened in front of my kids, and they were quite afraid at the scene that unfolded.

Basically, we made an emergency call to her daughter, who came to get her. She was then hospitalized in a psychiatric unit for several days. We understand that it is believed she had some kind of schizophrenic or bipolar episode and she was put on medication.

It has been three months now, and she came this week to ask for her job back. I said unfortunately we could not have her back, as part of her job is caring for our children, and we could no longer have that level of confidence in her work for us.

Her daughter then called us later, begged for her mother's job and said she needs the money, she can't find another job, and promised that her mother is fine with her medication. I said I was sorry but I just could not hire her back under the circumstances.

Her daughter has since called me back and has implied that she has looked into the matter and that schizophrenia is an illness and that she believes we are obligated to give her mother her job back "under the employment disabilities laws."

Does anyone know what she is talking about? Of course we feel terrible about this situation. We don't want to leave anyone without a job and know it is not our housekeeper's fault that she is sick. Still, I don't feel we could trust her with our children and house knowing by definition she may not be in control of her illness in the future.

posted by KWittman to law & government (29 comments total)

No, you're not obligated.
posted by Electrius at 6:55 AM on February 22 [1 favorite]

I'm an employment lawyer. You really, really need to consult one yourself. These cases are too fact-specific and are too dependent upon laws in your jurisdiction to be answered by random strangers on the internet.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:05 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]

Perhaps you could say where you live, if you want advice on the law.

You say "by definition" she will not be in control of her illness, but as long as she takes her medication she may well be fine. I know you weren't asking for this kind of response, but if you talk frankly to her and her family about her condition, and its history, you may be able to regain your confidence in her.
posted by galaksit at 7:11 AM on February 22

Does anyone know what she is talking about?

Yes. Without attempting to speak to your specific situation, the Americans with Disabilities Act has a fairly broad (although probably not as broad as some would like) definition of "disability" and it's one that can, and often does, include a huge number of mental illnesses.

The ADA dictates a number of responsibilities that employers have with regards to dealing with disabled persons. Specifically, it addresses when those persons may be fired, not promoted, demoted, etc. for their disability.

As Ironmouth said, there really aren't many bright-line rules here -- everything is incredibly fact-specific and because of that, the odds of you getting good advice here specific to your situation is vanishingly small. You need to talk with an employment lawyer ASAP.
posted by toomuchpete at 7:30 AM on February 22

If this is the US, I think it very unlikely equal employment laws apply. As far as I know, you would need to have at least 15 employees for any federal employment law relating to this to apply.

See here.

Tough situation. She may be fine now. But, as a parent, I think your comfort level trumps her need for a job.
posted by cosmac at 7:37 AM on February 22

Thank you for the advice. I do know this is an internet message board and does not substitute for professional advice, but it's Sunday morning here. I put in a quick call to a friend whose husband practices in this area and I will speak to him tomorrow during the business day. FWIW, one thing that came up was that while I would have gladly continued to employ her, since she's been gone, I did not replace her, and I have actually done fine without her. My kids were younger when she started, and it appears we may not even need this position in our household now, which may be a different story.

It's just a problematic situation that seems to have many different angles, the actual law being only one of them, and all comments and observations are helpful to me right now.
posted by KWittman at 7:59 AM on February 22

I'm just going off of an HR course taught by a lawyer a few years ago, but she said that if someone has a condition that could be corrected or controlled by medications or devices, then they are NOT ADA applicable. (ex. diabetes, schizophrenia). Again, not sure if that's correct....just what we were told.
posted by texas_blissful at 8:06 AM on February 22

texas_blissful: I think the ADAAA has changed that.
posted by stopgap at 8:30 AM on February 22

You didn't fire her based on her schizophrenia, you fired her based on her poor work performance.

I think you're okay here. Honestly, if she's hurting for cash that bad, there's no way she's going to sue you- she doesn't have money to hire an attorney. Her trying to threaten you, honestly, is a poor reflection of character and even more so the reason why you should not hire her back.
posted by unexpected at 8:36 AM on February 22 [3 favorites]

You're not obligated, no. But if you feel like you have to give a reason, why on earth can't you just tell her that you've decided that you no longer even need a housekeeper at all? It's not so hard to believe, given how difficult times are right now. Give it a week or so and then get another housekeeper. End of discussion.
posted by Zé Pequeno at 8:46 AM on February 22

I can't speak at all to the legal questions--I think it's good that you're going to talk to a lawyer about that--but you also might want to think through what you're willing to do for her separate from what's legally required. If it turns out that you're under no legal obligation to hire her back, is there anything else you could do that would make you feel better (say looking back on this in 10 years) about how you handled it? I think you want to handle this in a way that when your kids are grown up a bit and ask what ever happened to her (she cared for them for 4 year, yes? She's probably not an insignificant figure in their lives), you can answer them honestly without worrying about how it makes you look. For instance:

*Are you comfortable writing her a letter of recommendation? For other jobs caring for children, or just for jobs not relating to nannying (e.g., speaking to her abilities for cleaning, cooking, or generally running a household)? Would you feel comfortable writing the sort of letter that lets potential employers know that she's generally reliable and trustworthy, or do you feel that you can't vouch for that given the last month of her employment with you?

*If not a letter, would you be willing to be a positive reference for her when she's looking for another position? For all jobs, or just jobs not related to childcare?

*Would you feel comfortable giving her some sort of "severance package" (like a month's worth of wages) in recognition of her 4 years of service? Is there anything else you could do to help her out if she's financially in dire straights?

It's hard to say why it took her daughter 3 months to come to you and ask for her mom's job back. It might be that it took that long for the medications to start working and everything to get ironed out so that she's stable--or it may well be that she's been looking for another job for months, coming up with nothing, and is now desperate enough for money to come back to you begging for her job back.

I think you probably shouldn't talk to the daughter about what you're willing to offer until you've run this all by a lawyer and know what you're legally obligated to do, and if there's anything important that you need to not do or say. However, once you've gotten that straightened out, I bet it would be a big deal for your former housekeeper to find out that you're willing to be a reference (if you indeed are willing). Perhaps the reason she's having such a tough time finding a job is because she doesn't feel comfortable using you as a reference after what happened, and that's throwing up red flags for any potential employer given that she was with you so long.
posted by iminurmefi at 8:49 AM on February 22 [10 favorites]

Re galaksit's comment--it's great that the condition is currently controlled by medication, don't get me wrong, but with mental health meds, their effectiveness can change or stop. Not to mention that it's often very difficult to get people with schizophrenia to stay on their meds. If it was just a housekeeping position where only adults were involved, that'd be one thing, but if care of children is involved (when no one else is around? not sure) the acceptable margin of error is a lot smaller.

That said, iminurmefi makes some excellent points about what you could do outside of giving her the job back.

But, yes, until you talk to a lawyer the rest is moot.
posted by Herkimer at 9:18 AM on February 22

I just spoke with the attorney. We'll speak again tomorrow, but I will share what he just shared with me. One thing I did not mention was that our housekeeper was not a full-time employee. She came in 5 mornings a week, then left after lunch and cleaned other apartments in the city. Legally speaking, she was probably an at-will employee or independent contractor. It also wasn't very productive for her contact us for three months regarding her situation or intentions.

As for my kids, and explaining to them what happened, they were there and understood she left because she was sick. In fact, they were very worried for a week or two after the incident that she would "come back." In fact because she had left with our house key and had never returned it, after a month of not hearing from her or her daughter, I eventually had the lock changed.

As for the other questions - severance, recommendations, etc., we'll be considering that one. I don't really think her behavior since the incident has been really responsible, either, though I would understand that she might have been embarrassed etc. - I'm just not sure. These are other valid considerations and we will try our best to come up with what's appropriate for us.

These have been some very helpful comments.
posted by KWittman at 9:36 AM on February 22

In our state (California), disability nondiscrimination laws apply to employers with 5 or more employees.

Whether or not the law applies, the analysis of disability law is helpful in my opinion. Can the individual safely perform the basic functions of the job, with or without reasonable accommodation? Where there is an objective basis for believing that the person might not be able to safely perform the job, the employer may seek medical documentation or even a medical exam to determine "fitness for duty." A reasonable accommodation may be an unpaid leave of absence for treatment and recovery. Both the employer and the employee are supposed to communicate about reasonable accommodations. (Unfortunately many employees don't realize this or are unable to effectively participate in this communication.) In the context of a leave, the employee (or someone speaking for the employee) is supposed to provide relevant information such as the anticipated return-to-work date.
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 10:00 AM on February 22

IANAL, but in the same way that renting a room in the house you live in, has different rules for eviction of a tenant than if you rent a separate house, I would think that the law might be different for employees that work in your home.

Does anyone know if that is the case?
posted by jeffmilner at 10:37 AM on February 22

You are only obligated to keep her on the job if her condition does not affect her ability to do her job. To whit, I'm a nanny and I have epilepsy. Under the ADA, I can't be fired unless my seizures preclude me from doing my job. They don't - I take my medication every day and I am under regular care by a neurologist. If my employers were to fire me, it would have to be for excessive absenteeism or safety concerns; neither of which are an issue. They could never simply say "You're fired because you have epilepsy."

Likewise, with your housekeeper, you are not firing her because she's schizophrenic. You're firing her because she's not a safe person for your kids to be around and she tried to steal your dog. You are under no obligation to HER to employ her. Your obligation is to find a SAFE housekeeper for your family. A mental illness is not a "get out of jail free card." The situation in which you can NOT fire her is if she's doing her job well and all of a sudden, you find out she has schizophrenia and fire her for it. THAT is what the ADA is set up to prevent. Clearly, that is not the case here.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 10:48 AM on February 22 [2 favorites]

Am I missing something? Didn't she quit on that day she went crazy and said she had to leave, and then never returned?
posted by agentwills at 12:13 PM on February 22

I don't particularly think it's the best sign that the daughter is speaking on her mother's behalf regarding her mother's employment. There could be several reasons for it, but one would like to think that the mother was in reasonable mental and physical health to be able to advocate and make the case that the was interested in returning to work for you. It's also unfortunate that the daughter isn't particularly thinking of your wellbeing, but only that of herself and her mother (who clearly needs employment). Given that, I would be reluctant to allow her to care for your children, because she isn't even pretending that that is a priority for her.
posted by anitanita at 12:13 PM on February 22

Fair play that her behavior since the incident has not been really responsible, "her" applying to the daughter, though, they are in extraordinarily difficult situation.

Serious mental illness is often gruesome for people best-equipped--in terms of access to medical care, finances relative to their ability to work and otherwise, a support system, etc.--to cope with profound operational and emotional challenges on a day-to-day basis. Every single day.

No guess what your finances are like, if they've taken a downturn with the economic mayhem, etc., but if nothing else, there is the money saved by not employing her for three months. It's a wash for you if, having had appropriate legal questions answered, she is given that money. You'd still come out ahead if you gave her a month's pay for "severance."

Feels like something along those lines would be reasonable, assuming it would not cause you serious financial hardship.

A sense from here that you want to do something that would generally be considered the proverbial right thing.

Talk is cheap. Human decency, not always.
posted by ambient2 at 1:32 PM on February 22

Just to jump in on the other side, my parents had a tenant for about 20 years who took medication for schizophrenia. She would stop taking her medication about every two or three years and start having episodes and would start wondering around the city. Other neighbors or my dad or whoever would have to call her daughter or the pastor of her church to come get her and get her to take her medication. So I think it's one thing to be a decent human being - you could for example employ her to do housekeeping while you are in the house - but I think it's something else to trust your children to someone who could choose to take or not take her medication.
posted by gt2 at 2:33 PM on February 22

wandering, not wondering
posted by gt2 at 2:33 PM on February 22

sorry, I realize I wasn't answering your question, but was more just adding an anecdote to support your decision. I'll shut up now.
posted by gt2 at 2:35 PM on February 22

I can't speak to the law but as someone whose mother had schizophrenia I might be able to give you a sense of what you're hearing from your former employee and her daughter.

The three-month silence almost certainly has nothing to do with embarrassment. She was likely hospitalized for much of that time until her medications were adjusted and she was stable again. Because she is poor this would have been at a state hospital. It would have been extremely difficult for her to be in contact with you during that period.

One of the reasons so many people with serious mental illness end up homeless is exactly this -- they have a period of erratic behavior at a job, have to leave with no warning or follow-up to get well, get fired, and then lose the reference. Iminurmefi is exactly correct; the most valuable thing you can give her if you can no longer employ her is a solid reference, with whatever caveats you care to include about her caring for children.

Her daughter has been dealing with handling her mother's life and finances, and negotiating with a lot of heartless bureaucracies and institutions. Now she is trying to help her mother get back on her feet in a brutal economy. She is desperate. She has not handled it at all well but that is her fault; don't make decisions about how you treat her mother based on that.

A severance would give them a much-needed bit of breathing room to move forward and would be a correct thing to do given her four years of otherwise sterling service. But even with a reference/severance, things are grim for them. This situation is understandably upsetting to you but soon enough it will pass; however, without a decent support system or income it could be a prelude to far worse for your employee. Again: the daughter's behavior, wrong though it may be, should not prevent you from showing some compassion.

Finally, your description makes it clear that she was terrified and delusional so please understand that she did not try to steal your dog or otherwise wrong you; she was acting out her delusions. I know exactly what that looks like and how frightening that is. I hope you can sit down with your kids and explain that your employee is not a bad person and was sorry she scared them. When they are old enough consider telling them about schizophrenia. Social services for your employee are so bad in no small part because of how hard it is to talk about, and the stigma and ostracism that results.
posted by melissa may at 2:55 PM on February 22 [13 favorites]

you are not firing her because she's schizophrenic. You're firing her because she's not a safe person for your kids to be around and she tried to steal your dog.

No, she's firing her because she's schizophrenic, which was the cause of the bit of delusional behavior. That behavior which is controlled now but which the OP fears. She's assuming that the schizophrenic person isn't safe around children, which could be wrong.

Many people with mental illnesses take their medicines and are quite stable. They are employable and safe. It likely took the housekeeper a few months to be stable and now she would like to return to work.

I understand that you fear for your children, but perhaps you could reemploy her on a probationary period of say, 30 days/60 days/90 days and reevaluate the situation then? So many people with mental illnesses are poorly understood and ostracized as if harmful, when it's a small percentage that are actually harmful.

I had a bipolar friend I met online that some people thought was going to murder me or something if we met in person and hung out. I had to explain that it just didn't work that way.

Personally, I think she deserves a chance. If you're going to hire a housekeeper at all, try going with her on a probationary basis. Perhaps it will ease your fears.
posted by cmgonzalez at 3:35 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]

My mom's schizophrenic. I wouldn't hire back this housekeeper if it were my kids, FWIW. It's unfortunate for the housekeeper, but your kids come first.
posted by smorange at 4:20 PM on February 22

Is she a current employee of you or not. IANAL, but I would assume that this distinction would make a difference in the applicable laws.
posted by theichibun at 4:50 PM on February 22

Certainly, if you have some household needs that this person could take care of, it would be the decent thing to hire her back for them. But childcare just isn't one of them.
posted by gjc at 5:57 PM on February 22 [1 favorite]

I think that leaving her job and not reporting back to it for 3 months qualifies as quitting her job and that you don't have to hire her back. Furthermore, the daughter is bluffing, trying anything she can to get her mom's job back. If she does go to some agency of authority, they will likely laugh at her, especially when they find out she left her job and didn't contact you for 3 months.
posted by IndigoRain at 7:28 PM on February 22

Thank you for all the answers and comments. I have since had a talk with the daughter (she has the reliable phone number and she says her mother does not have a phone). We have sent a check for a month's severance, as she was with our family for a significant period of time. One week of pay for every year. We understand it is not her fault that she is ill. We just had to make it clear that in a job where the safety and security of our children and our home are central to the position, and given the episode which occurred in front of our children, we could not consider re-employing her. We'll provide references, but for cleaning only.

A sad situation without many happy or perfect solutions, but this seems like it will work best.
posted by KWittman at 7:03 PM on February 25