Blind Leading the Blind?
February 9, 2009 12:06 PM Subscribe
Just returned from a trip to the animal shelter looking for a second dog to adopt. Found a very sweet blind Aussie Shephard and fell in love. Need help to see if this is a good match: Can anyone share experiences/special challenges with caring for a blind dog?
Other relevant information:
We have a ~ 5 yr old male aussie or border collie/golden retriever mix that we adopted from the same shelter several years ago, so in addition to the challenges with a special needs dog, I have some concerns about how he'd do with another dog. Our dog is very sweet and gets along very well with other dogs, but he's a high energy herding dog.
The Blind Aussie (he was a stray, so not sure of exact age, but was marked as "young") seemed very sweet, but in the short time I was there, couldn't get him to walk when I took him out of his cage. I think this was mostly fear, as he seemed to walk around just fine in his cage/pen. He would obviously need a lot of adjustment to our home should we adopt him.
Other relevant information:
We have a ~ 5 yr old male aussie or border collie/golden retriever mix that we adopted from the same shelter several years ago, so in addition to the challenges with a special needs dog, I have some concerns about how he'd do with another dog. Our dog is very sweet and gets along very well with other dogs, but he's a high energy herding dog.
The Blind Aussie (he was a stray, so not sure of exact age, but was marked as "young") seemed very sweet, but in the short time I was there, couldn't get him to walk when I took him out of his cage. I think this was mostly fear, as he seemed to walk around just fine in his cage/pen. He would obviously need a lot of adjustment to our home should we adopt him.
I imagine that dog may have some other genetic issues as well considering it looks as though it has albinism. You may want to do some research to check it out.
posted by ZaneJ. at 1:06 PM on February 9, 2009
posted by ZaneJ. at 1:06 PM on February 9, 2009
I fostered a blind Silky Terrier last year. He did fine getting around. Sometimes he would get disoriented and would stay under the dining room table until someone encouraged him to come out. If we moved any furniture or brought in anything large that sat on the floor (i.e. a big tub of cat litter or bag of dog food), he might or might not bump into it at first, depending on how fast he was moving at the time. When we went anywhere, he would stand relatively still at first, and than start edging his way around, sticking close to walls and furniture, until he felt comfortable.
Outside, he had his special pee/poop spot that he always made a beeline for. Once I didn't watch him as closely as I should have, and I found him two houses down, just ambling along, out for a stroll. I suspect he thought he was walking back into the house, and didn't realize he had taken a wrong turn. So a fenced yard and/or near-constant supervision would be important when he's outside. But if you already have an Aussie, you know that already. :-)
I also have a Golden mix who is a high-energy herder (of us, the cats, the other dogs, the neighborhood dogs, the dust bunnies, etc.) and she kept her eye on the Silky.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 1:07 PM on February 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
Outside, he had his special pee/poop spot that he always made a beeline for. Once I didn't watch him as closely as I should have, and I found him two houses down, just ambling along, out for a stroll. I suspect he thought he was walking back into the house, and didn't realize he had taken a wrong turn. So a fenced yard and/or near-constant supervision would be important when he's outside. But if you already have an Aussie, you know that already. :-)
I also have a Golden mix who is a high-energy herder (of us, the cats, the other dogs, the neighborhood dogs, the dust bunnies, etc.) and she kept her eye on the Silky.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 1:07 PM on February 9, 2009 [1 favorite]
One of my pugs is blind. Once she figured out where furniture and things were at, there was not a problem. So don't rearrange furniture if you can help it. If you have stairs (more than a couple) I suggest using a baby gate to block them off. Definitely need a fenced yard, and if there are window wells, make sure those are covered.
She acts just like the others, except when the doorbell rings, and the others go to the door, she is usually facing the other way. I take her on walks, keeping the same route so that it is familiar. The only issue I have encountered is that she is paranoid that one of the other dogs is going to steal her food. She eats in a crate, so she feels more secure.
Good luck!
posted by bolognius maximus at 1:19 PM on February 9, 2009
She acts just like the others, except when the doorbell rings, and the others go to the door, she is usually facing the other way. I take her on walks, keeping the same route so that it is familiar. The only issue I have encountered is that she is paranoid that one of the other dogs is going to steal her food. She eats in a crate, so she feels more secure.
Good luck!
posted by bolognius maximus at 1:19 PM on February 9, 2009
I have a blind Lab (one of 3 dogs). I wouldn't trade her for anything in the world. The other dogs 'help' in that she can follow them around.
I third the fenced yard. She strayed once before I got it all fenced and just couldn't find her way back.
Taking her to the dog park (not fenced in) I have to be vigilant that she doesn't get too far way.
Stairs have not been a problem, she knows where they are.
posted by allelopath at 1:28 PM on February 9, 2009
I third the fenced yard. She strayed once before I got it all fenced and just couldn't find her way back.
Taking her to the dog park (not fenced in) I have to be vigilant that she doesn't get too far way.
Stairs have not been a problem, she knows where they are.
posted by allelopath at 1:28 PM on February 9, 2009
I think that if your heart spoke, it means there is a real connection between you. Please read this site and you may find inspiration. Wishing you all good things.
posted by watercarrier at 1:29 PM on February 9, 2009
posted by watercarrier at 1:29 PM on February 9, 2009
I hope this isn't too far off-topic but my wife's aunt has a deaf dalmatian that was full-grown when adopted. That dog will lunge and snarl at anything or nothing without warning. While intellectually I understand the dog fears being the victim of an unseen attack, when it happens it is very scary for anyone unlucky enough to be nearby. I've only seen the dog in other relatives' homes, which may be part of the problem, but when it happens the entire house goes into the momentary chaos associated with a "mad dog".
The dog I refer to has learned sign language and is obedient, but the fight reflex has been unbreakable so far. It is a sweet though not very social dog, and you would not expect the potential viciousness until you see it happen. There is not a single or constant trigger and I believe it displays this behavior at home too. It seems hard to be sure your prospective Aussie would be safe in a new situations until it had been through that specific scenario. You should definitely ask the shelter if it has displayed any aggressive behavior and maybe test the dog for food aggression and its reaction to being surprised before you decide.
You also need to consider how you would cope with the possibility of unforeseen behavioral problems caused by fear reflexes and whether your plans would accommodate a constantly leashed, contained, and/or muzzled dog. Due to their unpredictability and vulnerability, if you ever have kids (or elderly folks) in your home, this may not be a good match.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:34 PM on February 9, 2009
The dog I refer to has learned sign language and is obedient, but the fight reflex has been unbreakable so far. It is a sweet though not very social dog, and you would not expect the potential viciousness until you see it happen. There is not a single or constant trigger and I believe it displays this behavior at home too. It seems hard to be sure your prospective Aussie would be safe in a new situations until it had been through that specific scenario. You should definitely ask the shelter if it has displayed any aggressive behavior and maybe test the dog for food aggression and its reaction to being surprised before you decide.
You also need to consider how you would cope with the possibility of unforeseen behavioral problems caused by fear reflexes and whether your plans would accommodate a constantly leashed, contained, and/or muzzled dog. Due to their unpredictability and vulnerability, if you ever have kids (or elderly folks) in your home, this may not be a good match.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 1:34 PM on February 9, 2009
but in the short time I was there, couldn't get him to walk when I took him out of his cage.
Not surprising. He understands the layout of his cage through experience. He doesn't understand the hall you've put him in yet; for all he knows, it could be a cliff, a vast tundra, or a wired fence.
You also need to consider how you would cope with the possibility of unforeseen behavioral problems caused by fear reflexes and whether your plans would accommodate a constantly leashed, contained, and/or muzzled dog.
First of all, you need to do this with any dog. All dogs are individuals, and as such, are unpredictable until they are a known entity. This applies whether you raise them from a whelping box at birth or pick them up from the pound at age 5. I do not believe that a given disability, be it deafness or blindness, is a specific indicator of aggressive behaviour.
Like others, I know both blind and deaf dogs, and I even know a blind and deaf dog who is the lifelong pet of a vet and has an excellent quality of life. Yes, there are special safety issues for these animals but they need homes too and if you're keen and willing to give it a shot, I say go for it.
We have a special needs dog and although we have not been able to take a vacation in, uh, three years because of this particular dog's particular issues, it's been tremendously rewarding and I would not trade the dog for an all expenses paid trip to the Garden of Eden, that's how bonded we are.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:46 PM on February 9, 2009
Not surprising. He understands the layout of his cage through experience. He doesn't understand the hall you've put him in yet; for all he knows, it could be a cliff, a vast tundra, or a wired fence.
You also need to consider how you would cope with the possibility of unforeseen behavioral problems caused by fear reflexes and whether your plans would accommodate a constantly leashed, contained, and/or muzzled dog.
First of all, you need to do this with any dog. All dogs are individuals, and as such, are unpredictable until they are a known entity. This applies whether you raise them from a whelping box at birth or pick them up from the pound at age 5. I do not believe that a given disability, be it deafness or blindness, is a specific indicator of aggressive behaviour.
Like others, I know both blind and deaf dogs, and I even know a blind and deaf dog who is the lifelong pet of a vet and has an excellent quality of life. Yes, there are special safety issues for these animals but they need homes too and if you're keen and willing to give it a shot, I say go for it.
We have a special needs dog and although we have not been able to take a vacation in, uh, three years because of this particular dog's particular issues, it's been tremendously rewarding and I would not trade the dog for an all expenses paid trip to the Garden of Eden, that's how bonded we are.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:46 PM on February 9, 2009
The Trouble with Tuck is a young adults novel about a family living with one blind and one sighted dog. I'm not a dog owner so I don't know how realistic their solutions to problems turned out to be (their sighted dog had previously been a human's guide dog and they turned it into the blind dog's guide dog, which seems a tad far-fetched)- but maybe some of the other strategies they tried might help you. For instance, you might want to try putting a jingle bell on your existing dog's collar so the new one would always know where he was, and could follow him, or not feel snuck-up-on in the house, etc. You might be able to train the old dog to walk tandem-leashed with the new dog sometimes; etc.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:14 PM on February 9, 2009
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:14 PM on February 9, 2009
... considering it looks as though it has albinism.
No it doesn't. Black nose, black spots on legs, dark coloured eyes. Definitely not an albino. The genetic mutation that wipes out melanin production is systemic, not patchy like you see here.
Sorry for the derail but didn't want to let the false information stand.
posted by shelleycat at 2:55 PM on February 9, 2009
No it doesn't. Black nose, black spots on legs, dark coloured eyes. Definitely not an albino. The genetic mutation that wipes out melanin production is systemic, not patchy like you see here.
Sorry for the derail but didn't want to let the false information stand.
posted by shelleycat at 2:55 PM on February 9, 2009
Response by poster: More information: Without a better medical vocabulary, I can't really accurately describe his eyes, but the right eye had a smaller pupil than the left eye, and didn't seem to dilate in response to change in the light. Furthermore, when I took him outside, there was one point that I looked down at it and I couldn't see the pupil at all - like it had rolled over (think Geordi LaForge without his visor). This makes me think that at the very least the blindness is more of a physiological issue as opposed to some infection maybe. Birth defect maybe?
When I first held my hand up to his cage he would follow my hand with his head to the left and right, but when I moved my hand above his head to the top of the cage he didn't appear aware that it was there. This made me think he had maybe some limited vision in his left eye, at least on a small horizontal plane. However, the way he'd behaved once I got him onto the ground (his cage is on a top cage, not a bottom cage) and outside made me think he was completely blind. The way he shook, you could tell he was scared, but then when I got him back in the cage, and shut the door, he got his confidence back. When I opened the door - retreated like he was afraid of falling out, but after I put him back in and shut the door, he was back up with the nose to the cage like he wanted back out with me. I'm betting they've never had him out of the cage for a walk (although I know they do have volunteers to walk the doggies, I can't imagine they'd have spent much time with him).
Also, you can get a sense of this in the picture, but his eyes are small (I'm not sure how this compares to other Aussies) and lots of pink around the rims. Not sure if that indicates another medical issue, or if that's just typical of the breed.
Our animal shelter is unfortunately very underfunded, so I really have no way of knowing how much vet attention and initial assessment they get upon entry, other than being spayed/neutered.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:30 PM on February 9, 2009
When I first held my hand up to his cage he would follow my hand with his head to the left and right, but when I moved my hand above his head to the top of the cage he didn't appear aware that it was there. This made me think he had maybe some limited vision in his left eye, at least on a small horizontal plane. However, the way he'd behaved once I got him onto the ground (his cage is on a top cage, not a bottom cage) and outside made me think he was completely blind. The way he shook, you could tell he was scared, but then when I got him back in the cage, and shut the door, he got his confidence back. When I opened the door - retreated like he was afraid of falling out, but after I put him back in and shut the door, he was back up with the nose to the cage like he wanted back out with me. I'm betting they've never had him out of the cage for a walk (although I know they do have volunteers to walk the doggies, I can't imagine they'd have spent much time with him).
Also, you can get a sense of this in the picture, but his eyes are small (I'm not sure how this compares to other Aussies) and lots of pink around the rims. Not sure if that indicates another medical issue, or if that's just typical of the breed.
Our animal shelter is unfortunately very underfunded, so I really have no way of knowing how much vet attention and initial assessment they get upon entry, other than being spayed/neutered.
posted by Dr. Zira at 3:30 PM on February 9, 2009
Our animal shelter is unfortunately very underfunded, so I really have no way of knowing how much vet attention and initial assessment they get upon entry, other than being spayed/neutered.
In my experience, this can be hit or miss. Some vets just give a cursory exam to shelter animals, others are more thorough. The only way to be completely comfortable with the dog's current medical state would be to take him to your own vet (whom I assume you trust).
Why not take the dog for a temporary, getting-to-know-you visit? Most shelters would be only too happy to get some help caring for one of their charges for a few days*, especially a special needs dog. You could take him to your vet if you felt you needed more infromation on his condition.
*A blind dog might need more than a few days to get acclimated to a new environment, of course.
Good luck, and good on you for considering this dog!
posted by SuperSquirrel at 3:48 PM on February 9, 2009
In my experience, this can be hit or miss. Some vets just give a cursory exam to shelter animals, others are more thorough. The only way to be completely comfortable with the dog's current medical state would be to take him to your own vet (whom I assume you trust).
Why not take the dog for a temporary, getting-to-know-you visit? Most shelters would be only too happy to get some help caring for one of their charges for a few days*, especially a special needs dog. You could take him to your vet if you felt you needed more infromation on his condition.
*A blind dog might need more than a few days to get acclimated to a new environment, of course.
Good luck, and good on you for considering this dog!
posted by SuperSquirrel at 3:48 PM on February 9, 2009
I agree with DarlingBri but I want to clarify two points.
All dogs are individuals, and as such, are unpredictable until they are a known entity
To be clear, I was referring to the unpredictability of children and some elderly people and not to the unpredictably of dogs.
I do not believe that a given disability, be it deafness or blindness, is a specific indicator of aggressive behaviour.
I would not suggest blindness or deafness is an indicator of an aggressive animal either. All things being equal, a blind dog is at greater risk than average for perceiving threats inappropriately, but no dog is immune from faulty threat perception. All things being equal, a blind dog is probably also less of threat to do grave bodily harm. My point was that most animals will adopt coping techniques for a lack of sensory information and included among those may be defensiveness (read: aggressiveness) in the face of perceived threats.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 6:19 PM on February 9, 2009
All dogs are individuals, and as such, are unpredictable until they are a known entity
To be clear, I was referring to the unpredictability of children and some elderly people and not to the unpredictably of dogs.
I do not believe that a given disability, be it deafness or blindness, is a specific indicator of aggressive behaviour.
I would not suggest blindness or deafness is an indicator of an aggressive animal either. All things being equal, a blind dog is at greater risk than average for perceiving threats inappropriately, but no dog is immune from faulty threat perception. All things being equal, a blind dog is probably also less of threat to do grave bodily harm. My point was that most animals will adopt coping techniques for a lack of sensory information and included among those may be defensiveness (read: aggressiveness) in the face of perceived threats.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 6:19 PM on February 9, 2009
Take your other dog with you to the shelter, next time you visit. It is important to see if they get along (more important than anything else). My (limited) experience with blind dogs when helping at a shelter is that they appreciate having other dogs around and will follow their lead. So already having one dog is a huge advantage if you are thinking of adopting a blind dog.
The shelter staff are the best to advise you about temperament. They will have seen this dog at its best and probably at its worst. If they think this is a sweet dog, it probably is.
Finally, any shelter worth its salt will allow you to foster the dog, to see how you get on. Take it home at a time when you can spend a few days with both dogs, making sure there are no issues and providing reassurance. See how you get on.
My own observation is that you know, when you are really going to bond with a dog. Go with your heart.
posted by Susurration at 6:40 PM on February 9, 2009
The shelter staff are the best to advise you about temperament. They will have seen this dog at its best and probably at its worst. If they think this is a sweet dog, it probably is.
Finally, any shelter worth its salt will allow you to foster the dog, to see how you get on. Take it home at a time when you can spend a few days with both dogs, making sure there are no issues and providing reassurance. See how you get on.
My own observation is that you know, when you are really going to bond with a dog. Go with your heart.
posted by Susurration at 6:40 PM on February 9, 2009
Best answer: That dog is pattern white, or possibly double merle. These dog come from crap breeders and there may well be other health issues and if you plan to take this dog home you should study up.
You might also think about things that this dog will really need your help for, like traveling and having people over.
However, I am not one to tell someone who is already a successful pet owner to be reasonable.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:49 PM on February 9, 2009
You might also think about things that this dog will really need your help for, like traveling and having people over.
However, I am not one to tell someone who is already a successful pet owner to be reasonable.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:49 PM on February 9, 2009
Best answer: Lesser Shrew's page has lots of interesting info. It looks to me (I'm not a vet) like that dog has micropthalmia (under-sized and under-developed eyes), and irregular (ragged-edged) pupils, which are also eccentric (not centred within in the iris). More photos of the eye defects typically seen in homozygous merle aussie shepherds is here, and Lesser Shrew's link also had this page.
According to this page about micropthalmia, sometimes the defect will lead to cataracts or glaucoma, which would need to be treated with medication.
That last page also has these reassuring words: "With their acute senses of smell and hearing, dogs can compensate very well for impaired vision. You may not realize the extent of your dog's vision loss, particularly in familiar surroundings. You can help your visually impaired dog by developing regular routes for exercise, maintaining your dog's surroundings as consistently as possible, introducing any necessary changes gradually, and being patient."
posted by pseudostrabismus at 9:21 PM on February 10, 2009
According to this page about micropthalmia, sometimes the defect will lead to cataracts or glaucoma, which would need to be treated with medication.
That last page also has these reassuring words: "With their acute senses of smell and hearing, dogs can compensate very well for impaired vision. You may not realize the extent of your dog's vision loss, particularly in familiar surroundings. You can help your visually impaired dog by developing regular routes for exercise, maintaining your dog's surroundings as consistently as possible, introducing any necessary changes gradually, and being patient."
posted by pseudostrabismus at 9:21 PM on February 10, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you all for your helpful responses. I agree with the above: I suspect he's a pattern white or double merle resulting from breeder negligence.
I visited him again yesterday in the shelter and got him to walk a bit outside on the leash. He's obviously not leash-trained, so we'd have to deal with that (which we dealt with on our other doggie when we got him), but after our interaction yesterday, I think he may have a little bit of vision - at least limited - because when my husband brought out another dog (a corgi), the dog noticed them from about 20 feet away and "pointed" at them - total alert mode with one paw curled up ready to herd them. Thanks to your postings and your links, I feel more confident that we can address his blindness issues.
My remaining concern is that because our animal shelter doesn't have a vet on staff (they have volunteer vets who spay and neuter, but don't do disease screening), I need to make sure we don't put our other doggie at risk for any diseases doggie number #2 might have acquired at the shelter. He's been at the shelter since 1/12.
My husband has deferred the decision to me, so I'll post a follow up to let you know how it turns out if we decide to make it happen.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2009
I visited him again yesterday in the shelter and got him to walk a bit outside on the leash. He's obviously not leash-trained, so we'd have to deal with that (which we dealt with on our other doggie when we got him), but after our interaction yesterday, I think he may have a little bit of vision - at least limited - because when my husband brought out another dog (a corgi), the dog noticed them from about 20 feet away and "pointed" at them - total alert mode with one paw curled up ready to herd them. Thanks to your postings and your links, I feel more confident that we can address his blindness issues.
My remaining concern is that because our animal shelter doesn't have a vet on staff (they have volunteer vets who spay and neuter, but don't do disease screening), I need to make sure we don't put our other doggie at risk for any diseases doggie number #2 might have acquired at the shelter. He's been at the shelter since 1/12.
My husband has deferred the decision to me, so I'll post a follow up to let you know how it turns out if we decide to make it happen.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:29 AM on February 11, 2009
Response by poster: I'm happy to report Mr. Magoo is adjusting to his new home. Here's a pic of Magoo and his new big brother, Chester.
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:20 PM on February 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Dr. Zira at 5:20 PM on February 21, 2009 [2 favorites]
Congrats on your new addition, and fabulous name choice!
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:24 AM on February 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:24 AM on February 22, 2009 [1 favorite]
Congrats and best of luck to you
posted by allelopath at 8:40 PM on February 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by allelopath at 8:40 PM on February 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by anastasiav at 12:24 PM on February 9, 2009 [1 favorite]