Operetta meets web 2.0
January 6, 2009 11:46 AM Subscribe
I finally convinced my boss that we could manage a blog. The blog would be (in fact already is) on an existing community site with other arts organizations; my idea is to get it going, and provide links in both directions. This is at absolutely no cost to us, and I've worked out a rotation so no single person needs to write more than one entry per year. Then she started talking to her marketing guy.
Mr. hidebound marketing guy has convinced her that the blog needs to be on our site directly, with no external links, and that this will be too expensive to add to the site, therefore we shouldn't do it. His belief is that putting it on the community site means we are just helping people go to other venues than ours. He seems utterly clueless about web design and the effective use of a website (ours is completely static.) Ms. Boss thinks if people know about other arts organizations online that will somehow keep them from buying tickets from us. The depth of their misunderstanding of how the internets work is awesome to behold.
I've tried all the arguments; I need articles, even blogs (short is better) that argue convincingly that connectivity is good, can increase credibility, name recognition, and ticket sales. She won't listen to me, maybe she'll respond to the printed word.
Mr. hidebound marketing guy has convinced her that the blog needs to be on our site directly, with no external links, and that this will be too expensive to add to the site, therefore we shouldn't do it. His belief is that putting it on the community site means we are just helping people go to other venues than ours. He seems utterly clueless about web design and the effective use of a website (ours is completely static.) Ms. Boss thinks if people know about other arts organizations online that will somehow keep them from buying tickets from us. The depth of their misunderstanding of how the internets work is awesome to behold.
I've tried all the arguments; I need articles, even blogs (short is better) that argue convincingly that connectivity is good, can increase credibility, name recognition, and ticket sales. She won't listen to me, maybe she'll respond to the printed word.
Then she started talking to her marketing guy.
What an awful sentence. There are (presumably) more reasonable marketing people at the other organizations at the community site you mention. Can you get one/some of them to talk to the clueless one at your organization (about synergies and page views or some shit) and convince him to join the crew?
posted by Rock Steady at 12:01 PM on January 6, 2009
What an awful sentence. There are (presumably) more reasonable marketing people at the other organizations at the community site you mention. Can you get one/some of them to talk to the clueless one at your organization (about synergies and page views or some shit) and convince him to join the crew?
posted by Rock Steady at 12:01 PM on January 6, 2009
I know me telling you this won't help, but we're all finding out that distributing our content to other sites like flickr, youtube, et.al. really benefits us with links back to our main site. Our museum blog uses typepad but looks as if it's on one of our servers with domain mapping. (You don't see typepad's URL you see your own.) Perhaps you could do that as a subdomain to your main site.
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 12:12 PM on January 6, 2009
posted by Taken Outtacontext at 12:12 PM on January 6, 2009
Good for you! Bad for marketing guy - his skills are rapidly becoming obsolete.
Why not send your boss a list of arts and culture organizations already using social web apps. Flickr, Twitter - the Library of Congress uses applications hosted elsewhere, many art museums maintain a page on FaceBook and even share images using applications they've built, and The Brooklyn Museum has my most favoritest model of a museum using the web ever. Note how their interactive web material is not categorized under "press" or "marketing" or "technology" or "see us on the web" -- but under the heading "community." That says a lot.
Would your marketing guy think it was negative for staff from your organization to contribute a monthly column to a newspaper or magazine? Would that dilute your effect -- or is that exactly the kind of exposure he spends his days seeking and trying to find?
My museum is currently in a partnership with a middle school, several downtown businesses, an afterschool program and a children's museum, and we're using FaceBook and Gather.com to present project outputs and activities so that participants can feel a part of it. I think we all feel that these partnerships are strategic - that it enhances our image to be seen in this company, and that we are sharing audience and raising one another's profile under the umbrella of this project. I can't quantify it, though. For that I think you need a real marketer. I've worked a bit with the people at MediaSauce, a really great creative firm using low-to-the-ground web marketing very effectively (and teaching it too). Maybe you could check with them or another firm like them (they're the only one I know that has an audience focus on nonprofits). Here's a blog entry by one of their staffers on how "social media is not advertising or marketing...it's about connections."
Your rather sticky job is convincing your boss that your marketing guy is old school and isn't the best resource where the web is concerned. That is more a political job than anything. But a lot of us are working on it!
posted by Miko at 12:26 PM on January 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
Why not send your boss a list of arts and culture organizations already using social web apps. Flickr, Twitter - the Library of Congress uses applications hosted elsewhere, many art museums maintain a page on FaceBook and even share images using applications they've built, and The Brooklyn Museum has my most favoritest model of a museum using the web ever. Note how their interactive web material is not categorized under "press" or "marketing" or "technology" or "see us on the web" -- but under the heading "community." That says a lot.
Would your marketing guy think it was negative for staff from your organization to contribute a monthly column to a newspaper or magazine? Would that dilute your effect -- or is that exactly the kind of exposure he spends his days seeking and trying to find?
My museum is currently in a partnership with a middle school, several downtown businesses, an afterschool program and a children's museum, and we're using FaceBook and Gather.com to present project outputs and activities so that participants can feel a part of it. I think we all feel that these partnerships are strategic - that it enhances our image to be seen in this company, and that we are sharing audience and raising one another's profile under the umbrella of this project. I can't quantify it, though. For that I think you need a real marketer. I've worked a bit with the people at MediaSauce, a really great creative firm using low-to-the-ground web marketing very effectively (and teaching it too). Maybe you could check with them or another firm like them (they're the only one I know that has an audience focus on nonprofits). Here's a blog entry by one of their staffers on how "social media is not advertising or marketing...it's about connections."
Your rather sticky job is convincing your boss that your marketing guy is old school and isn't the best resource where the web is concerned. That is more a political job than anything. But a lot of us are working on it!
posted by Miko at 12:26 PM on January 6, 2009 [2 favorites]
You might want to let them know that relevant external links drive up the search engine rankings for your main site.
posted by txvtchick at 12:33 PM on January 6, 2009
posted by txvtchick at 12:33 PM on January 6, 2009
Best answer: I get an email newsletter called Smart Brief on Social Media that is full of examples of companies using blogs, twitter, facebook, etc. in successful ways. I'm sure you could search through that and find some helpful articles. I think you can also subscribe to the RSS feed if you aren't a fan of email newsletters (I think they send one every day or two).
posted by misskaz at 12:39 PM on January 6, 2009
posted by misskaz at 12:39 PM on January 6, 2009
They think that linking to other arts organizations is sending them away from yours. Do they also get upset when you are mentioned in the newspaper, but other arts organizations are also mentioned? If you make the blog, you will have more visitors to your site.
posted by lee at 12:48 PM on January 6, 2009
posted by lee at 12:48 PM on January 6, 2009
Use the used bookstore argument: back when the business model made sense, you used to find several used book stores on the same block, or within a few blocks of each other. Individually, it would be difficult for any single store to draw in a customer who is browsing or looking for something specific, but with many choices, it becomes a destination, drawing in lots of foot traffic. Even if the customer didn't spend their dollars at one store, they might at the next. At some other time, one of the other store's browsers might come to your place instead.
I'm thinking also of "the street of Indian restaurants" that used to be located in NYC's East Village back in the mid 80's (is it still there? E 6th, if I recall). Same kind of thing.
Yes, these are hard times and arts orgs are competing for fewer dollars. But aren't you likely to find more fish near the reef, rather than out in the middle of the ocean?
posted by Araucaria at 3:31 PM on January 6, 2009
I'm thinking also of "the street of Indian restaurants" that used to be located in NYC's East Village back in the mid 80's (is it still there? E 6th, if I recall). Same kind of thing.
Yes, these are hard times and arts orgs are competing for fewer dollars. But aren't you likely to find more fish near the reef, rather than out in the middle of the ocean?
posted by Araucaria at 3:31 PM on January 6, 2009
Response by poster: These are all great arguments; I knew the green would come through. I've used many of these points til I'm blue in the face, they're not listening to me. misskaz is most on track; I need "experts." When I worked as a consultant for this group, they did everything I said. The magic of the fee-for-advice.
(Mr. Hidebound also won't let me create an online newsletter for donors, because "donors hate email." Not sure what he's basing this on. He reminds me of the classic description of insanity-- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)
posted by nax at 5:57 PM on January 6, 2009
(Mr. Hidebound also won't let me create an online newsletter for donors, because "donors hate email." Not sure what he's basing this on. He reminds me of the classic description of insanity-- doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.)
posted by nax at 5:57 PM on January 6, 2009
Best answer: Ugh, are you paying this guy or is he free? Some pretty bad advice here, especially the crap about the emails.
This always a hard thing to convince old schoolers about. I've found the best way is to show them examples that big companies (or non-profits) are doing. Everyone wants to be like the big guy, and if they're doing it, then it must be right. Maybe you can find some stuff on this list. You could also pull examples from companies forming communities of Facebook.
The crux of the problem is giving up control of your content by posting it somewhere else and losing control of the user's actions. You have to convince them that it is better to be part of the conversation but not having all the control (by being on the other site) rather than ignoring or having no conversation (are people really going to visit your site weekly for updates?). I often quote Howard Gossage who said "People read what interests them. Sometimes it's an ad." which really applies to the web. As far as location of content and outbound links, people are more likely to return to a site that provides a better experience, not matter what your marketing strategy.
An analogy would be if you made a print ad. You could just post it in your window so people visiting would see it, or you could go to the people and place in the ad in the paper or a magazine.
Maybe you can compromise with this guy. Maybe you could run a Wordpress install on your servers that updates (or is updated) by the other site. For the email newsletter, use Feedburner for you RSS and let people subscribe by email.
Overall though, you need a better marketing guy. Try tripping this guy up in front of your boss by having questions ready for him. Ask him what he thought about X big campaign, how companies are using Twitter. Let him dig his own grave.
posted by dripdripdrop at 4:15 AM on January 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
This always a hard thing to convince old schoolers about. I've found the best way is to show them examples that big companies (or non-profits) are doing. Everyone wants to be like the big guy, and if they're doing it, then it must be right. Maybe you can find some stuff on this list. You could also pull examples from companies forming communities of Facebook.
The crux of the problem is giving up control of your content by posting it somewhere else and losing control of the user's actions. You have to convince them that it is better to be part of the conversation but not having all the control (by being on the other site) rather than ignoring or having no conversation (are people really going to visit your site weekly for updates?). I often quote Howard Gossage who said "People read what interests them. Sometimes it's an ad." which really applies to the web. As far as location of content and outbound links, people are more likely to return to a site that provides a better experience, not matter what your marketing strategy.
An analogy would be if you made a print ad. You could just post it in your window so people visiting would see it, or you could go to the people and place in the ad in the paper or a magazine.
Maybe you can compromise with this guy. Maybe you could run a Wordpress install on your servers that updates (or is updated) by the other site. For the email newsletter, use Feedburner for you RSS and let people subscribe by email.
Overall though, you need a better marketing guy. Try tripping this guy up in front of your boss by having questions ready for him. Ask him what he thought about X big campaign, how companies are using Twitter. Let him dig his own grave.
posted by dripdripdrop at 4:15 AM on January 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Wow, you guys rock! Meeting tomorrow, Boss liked the articles and managed to include both me and our with-it PR person in the meeting. I owe everyone a beer, and a bottle of champagne if this goes through.
(But I'll read more if anyone else wants to chime in)
Big double w00t!
posted by nax at 9:25 AM on January 7, 2009
(But I'll read more if anyone else wants to chime in)
Big double w00t!
posted by nax at 9:25 AM on January 7, 2009
Just in time for tomorrow: recent WSJ article on marketing in the 2.0 age. With tips on "letting go" and "allowing the conversation to happen."
posted by Miko at 6:59 PM on January 7, 2009
posted by Miko at 6:59 PM on January 7, 2009
« Older Is HDMI hook up necessary for awesome High Def TV? | Where can I ice skate a canal in or near Amsterdam... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nax at 11:48 AM on January 6, 2009