What do you think of when you hear the term "for-profit university?"

November 6, 2008 8:13 PM

What do you think of when you hear the term "for-profit university"?

I'm writing a survey for my masters thesis, and need some help validating a question. My goal is to identify the different gut-instinct reactions to that term. Answers that are ten words or less would be much more useful than long paragraphs.

posted by eleeri to education (64 comments total)

Diploma mill.
posted by ALongDecember at 8:19 PM on November 6, 2008 [5 favorites]

The University of Phoenix.
posted by gingerbeer at 8:24 PM on November 6, 2008

Credit for 'life experience.' Fake degrees.
posted by box at 8:26 PM on November 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

False promises of career advancement. Lack of professors.
posted by Kirklander at 8:33 PM on November 6, 2008

"Certificates"
posted by greta simone at 8:37 PM on November 6, 2008

I'm unable to do my own work by myself.
posted by Stynxno at 8:41 PM on November 6, 2008

Private and not non-profit. No necessarily negative connotations to my mind.
posted by nanojath at 8:41 PM on November 6, 2008

Diploma mill.
posted by radioamy at 8:43 PM on November 6, 2008

Diploma mill or unaccredited fundie wackjob outpost. Or, worse, DeVry.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:45 PM on November 6, 2008

The University of Phoenix.

[they have an NFL stadium named after them.]
posted by clearly at 8:48 PM on November 6, 2008

Like Sticherbeast, I came here to say DeVry.
posted by onshi at 8:48 PM on November 6, 2008

lower academic entry requirements (higher financial requirements).
posted by jacalata at 8:51 PM on November 6, 2008

Also: both low acceptance standards and low graduation rates.
posted by onshi at 8:52 PM on November 6, 2008

Same as nanojath. Just private and not non-profit. Neither positive nor negative thoughts.
posted by decathecting at 8:55 PM on November 6, 2008

The American educational system.
posted by Dasein at 8:57 PM on November 6, 2008

Fake. Business-related. Not accredited. Religious.
posted by cobaltnine at 9:00 PM on November 6, 2008

Harvard.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:05 PM on November 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

More interested in making money than educating.

Also, crummy tv ads.
posted by saturngirl at 9:05 PM on November 6, 2008

Finally, an honest school?
posted by Nixie Pixel at 9:15 PM on November 6, 2008

Late-night and daytime TV commercials.
posted by mynameisluka at 9:37 PM on November 6, 2008

Hopeful - the way school should be done. Not very well-executed in modern-America, yet, unfortunately.
posted by davidmsc at 9:52 PM on November 6, 2008

Conflict of interest.
posted by karizma at 9:52 PM on November 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

U 2 can be PhD.
posted by 26.2 at 10:07 PM on November 6, 2008

MBA
posted by b1tr0t at 10:12 PM on November 6, 2008

I thought of the big private universities (Harvard, Yale, MIT etc). After thinking about it a bit more I don't know if that's appropriate, but I gather you want first impressions.
posted by PercussivePaul at 10:13 PM on November 6, 2008

unemployable "graduates"
posted by atrazine at 10:13 PM on November 6, 2008

Ten words not mentioned thus far:
Scam.
Low rate of graduation.
No placement program.
Visa mill.

Disclaimer: A for-profit university has taken over my neighborhood. I could give you a few thousand words, none complementary to them or the nature of their education.
posted by Ookseer at 10:38 PM on November 6, 2008

Aren't all universities making some kind of profit?
posted by runningwithscissors at 10:46 PM on November 6, 2008

Yeah, I'm clearly wrong. Most of the big private schools are nonprofits.
posted by PercussivePaul at 11:08 PM on November 6, 2008

I also thought of Harvard, Yale, etc with their massive endowments, but I didn't write that because I know they're not actually for profit...but I guess it was my first impression. I think I was free associating money and university.
posted by jacalata at 11:21 PM on November 6, 2008

Used cars.
posted by Mblue at 11:28 PM on November 6, 2008

scam
posted by Amanda B at 11:42 PM on November 6, 2008

Yuck.
posted by overglow at 11:43 PM on November 6, 2008

Die.
posted by Wolof at 12:06 AM on November 7, 2008

My first thought: Maybe the poster is just using a weird wording - plenty of normal private universities have huge fees and big stacks of cash.

My second thought: Things like Trump University, with claims like "more hands on approach" which may mean less challenging/academically rigorous than a normal university.
posted by Mike1024 at 1:00 AM on November 7, 2008

"Good, now we've stopped pretending it's otherwise." (My school, Ivy Leagues, etc.)
posted by teremala at 1:08 AM on November 7, 2008

Couldn't get into a real school.
posted by paultopia at 1:19 AM on November 7, 2008

Oh, and I know that those are all non-profits, but it doesn't feel like that when you're trying to figure out how you're going to afford them. What can I say, my gut doesn't like technicalities.
posted by teremala at 1:21 AM on November 7, 2008

Limkokwing.
posted by divabat at 2:17 AM on November 7, 2008

An idea whose time has not yet come.
posted by unclejeffy at 3:24 AM on November 7, 2008

Defrauds people who don't know better out of financial aid.
posted by vincele at 3:52 AM on November 7, 2008

A post-secondary school which features no (or extremely minor) in-house student financial aid or scholarships. In addition to the above-named diploma mills, I'd include most of the large, nationwide technical schools (although the tech schools generally DO provide a usable education, albeit astoundingly expensive)
posted by Thorzdad at 4:44 AM on November 7, 2008

and now for the serious answer:

I work for a graduate school of education and actually yesterday was talking to an Ed.D. grad who was for several years a dean at a for-profit university that has always had a large presence in the Washington, DC-area. When he started there he said, yes, the school was considered by some to be a diploma mill. Though, it never really was. In fact, most for-profit schools are so far advanced in online and virtual learning environments that they put Ivy and Brick and Mortar schools to shame.

The fact is that most for-profit schools don't teach younger students. The average age of a for-profit university attendee is usually higher, somewhere between 28-33. These are people my office calls mid-career professionals. They are looking for a no-fuss graduate degree environment that will allow them to study a few days a week and go to class a few days a week so that they can don't have to change anything about their lives.

The average for-profit postgraduate student is looking for own-field advantage and will do a degree around their industrial specialization. They are looking for a promotion, not transformational change. That's an important distinction.
posted by parmanparman at 4:45 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

They are scams invented to take advantage of government subsidized/guaranteed student lending programs. The quality of the education they provide is a secondary issue.
posted by JPD at 5:21 AM on November 7, 2008

I can haz digreee plz? I haz teh shiny things.
posted by mandal at 5:53 AM on November 7, 2008

Diploma mill and I work at a university founded by hippies and visionaries who give "life" credit.

Regarding mid-career professionals, that is a market that non-profit universities are taking a chunk of since no money should be left on the table. These universities use the social capital of their accredited names to provide online courses, certificates, programs and degrees online without the stigma of a pre-dominately online university like Phoenix.
posted by jadepearl at 6:09 AM on November 7, 2008

Yet more privatization.
posted by TedW at 6:54 AM on November 7, 2008

Fake & mockery-worthy.

Just FYI, peoples, most universities with large endowments give outstanding financial aid; see "need-based aid" and "need-blind admissions." If you can get into an Ivy, they'll help you afford it.
posted by dame at 6:55 AM on November 7, 2008

University of Phoenix.
posted by robinpME at 7:04 AM on November 7, 2008

no academic freedom
posted by hworth at 7:14 AM on November 7, 2008

in it for the money, not for the students
posted by desjardins at 7:25 AM on November 7, 2008

(I work at one, I know of what I speak)
posted by desjardins at 7:25 AM on November 7, 2008

Focus on delivery, not wasting money on tenure.
posted by blue_beetle at 7:36 AM on November 7, 2008

Aren't all universities making some kind of profit?

Non-profit doesn't mean 'doesn't generate excess revenue.' It means 'excess revenue is devoted back to the support and development of the institution'. Yes, nonprofit universities usually have revenue exceeding their costs, but it goes into the endowment or other programs. As dame said, at this point, there are several Ivies and other private schools which you can attend *for free*if you have the financial need. That's the endowment working for the public good (the ultimate purpose of nonprofits).

But even if you don't go to a school with free tuition for needy students, and even if you don't get financial aid from a school at all, you are paying much less than the real cost of the education even so. Nonprofits are eligible for many more state, federal, indifvidual and foundation grants and gifts, which means they are subsidizing each and every person's education with, essentially, matching funds which are somewhat invisible because you never see them on the tuition bill. Without being able to draw on these revenue streams, many of them tax-free gifts, education would cost quite a bit more than it currently does. So even people who aren't getting financial aid: you're getting financial aid.

For-profit colleges: taking advantage of a market of frustrated people with stagnating careers. Limited opportunities, narrow expectations.
posted by Miko at 7:47 AM on November 7, 2008

Laura Callahan (wiki).
posted by timetoevolve at 8:02 AM on November 7, 2008

Aggressive marketing.
Admissions counselors = Salespeople

Before I knew the difference between for-profit and non-profit schools, I contacted a for-profit culinary school to see what they offered. I assumed that the tuition and education would be similar to my alma mater, a non-profit technical college (which I loved).

I found out that the tuition was insane for what I knew to be relatively low-paying jobs upon graduation, so I didn't pursue it further. An admissions counselor called me, demanding to know why I was no longer interested.

All of a sudden I felt like I was backing out of a timeshare condo pitch.
posted by limeswirltart at 8:17 AM on November 7, 2008

sham, ripoff, exploitative
posted by puffin at 8:20 AM on November 7, 2008

Can't get into a real school.
Diploma mill pretending not to be.
posted by KAS at 8:20 AM on November 7, 2008

First word in my head was DeVry.

I also associate FPUs with aggressive marketing campaigns, people who couldn't get into a traditional university, a restricted curriculum and less respected qualifications.

(I recognise that there are many people for whom these institutions are an ideal fit and that they do serve a purpose, but all my gut reactions were negative.)
posted by the latin mouse at 8:47 AM on November 7, 2008

U of Pheonix. Older students. Career-enhancement programs. Business-oriented.
posted by Robert Angelo at 9:03 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

I think "that's an oxymoron, isn't it?"
posted by sfenders at 11:01 AM on November 7, 2008

Prey on naive, first-generation college students
posted by sondrialiac at 1:30 PM on November 7, 2008

What do you mean I'm not qualified?
posted by fourcheesemac at 3:04 PM on November 8, 2008

Also: in the mid-90s, when I was a full-time enlisted military member, University of Phoenix presented the best method for me to earn my undergrad degree. I went into it knowing that it wasn't Stanford or Yale, but I did indeed learn a lot, and was able to "balance" full time work with full-time school. The result: earned my BS in business, got commissioned as an officer in the military, and then went on to earn my graduate degree from Baylor University.

So please don't be too quick to dismiss UoP or certain other for-profit schools. In my experience, the students at UoP got what they worked for - for better or worse - and it served as a stepping stone for me to learn, advance my career, and further my education.
posted by davidmsc at 8:27 AM on November 13, 2008