How can I get out of a listed house in order to sell it For Sale By Owner?
September 2, 2008 1:10 PM Subscribe
I have a rental house that I am selling.
It has been listed with a Real Estate agent since Nov 07. Not one offer on it.
Some people from my parent's church are interested in buying it, but they want to do it For Sale By Owner -no Real Estate Agents involved.
My listing expires on Oct. 11.
How long after the listing expires can I sell it on my own? Is there a grace period?
Any ideas of how to cancel the listing beforehand? I don't want to lie, but I would rather sell to the church people for obvious reasons (more money for me, better deal for them, etc.).
I am in GA.
You should ask a real estate attorney, you will need one for the sale anyhow.
posted by lee at 1:28 PM on September 2, 2008
posted by lee at 1:28 PM on September 2, 2008
Why do they want you to sell it without the agent? What do they get out of the equation? Sure, you'll have more in pocket because you won't have to pay the agent. BUT, you'll have to make sure all the paperwork and legal stuff is properly done.
posted by onhazier at 1:34 PM on September 2, 2008
posted by onhazier at 1:34 PM on September 2, 2008
Why do they want you to sell it without the agent? What do they get out of the equation?
This.
Do they just want you to take a 6% discount off the asking price of the house because "you'd have to pay the agent that anyway"?
Because if 94% of the current asking price seems OK to you, then just go ahead and sell it to them for that and let the agent collect his or her 6% of the lower price.
Otherwise, it's none of their business who you have helping you sell your house, because you're the one paying the agent, not them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:37 PM on September 2, 2008
This.
Do they just want you to take a 6% discount off the asking price of the house because "you'd have to pay the agent that anyway"?
Because if 94% of the current asking price seems OK to you, then just go ahead and sell it to them for that and let the agent collect his or her 6% of the lower price.
Otherwise, it's none of their business who you have helping you sell your house, because you're the one paying the agent, not them.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:37 PM on September 2, 2008
Response by poster: @ onhazier:
I can come down on price a good bit if I sell w/o an agent. Agent commission is built into the price.
I've bought a house FSBO before. So I have some experience with it.
posted by twistedmetal at 1:40 PM on September 2, 2008
I can come down on price a good bit if I sell w/o an agent. Agent commission is built into the price.
I've bought a house FSBO before. So I have some experience with it.
posted by twistedmetal at 1:40 PM on September 2, 2008
Your agreement with the listing agent may describe when you're allowed to sell the house without them getting their commission. Find the agreement and look through it.
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:34 PM on September 2, 2008
posted by LobsterMitten at 2:34 PM on September 2, 2008
Yes, re-read your selling agent's representation agreement. It should specify how long after ending that arrangement you must wait.
posted by yellowcandy at 3:15 PM on September 2, 2008
posted by yellowcandy at 3:15 PM on September 2, 2008
You better check with a lawyer. The fact they have even talked to you about this NOW could very well be suspect. If the agent wants to, they can take you to court for the commission if they can prove you had talked to these people before the agreement ran out.
Not to mention it's a dirty thing to do to your realtor. Who, by the way is working for YOU and looking out for YOUR interests.
I am a Christian, but I have to tell you that just because someone goes to a church does NOT mean they have pure motives, shall we say. I would be very curious why they don't want a realtor involved. Nothing is stopping them from making a lowball offer and negotiating, after all.
From what I know about the market, the fact you built the commission into the price probably means you have overpriced the house to begin with. It is possible your realtor really isn't very good-I'm surprise you haven't even gotten any lowball offers-but unless your house has some big honking flaw, no offers means priced too high.
posted by konolia at 3:49 PM on September 2, 2008
Not to mention it's a dirty thing to do to your realtor. Who, by the way is working for YOU and looking out for YOUR interests.
I am a Christian, but I have to tell you that just because someone goes to a church does NOT mean they have pure motives, shall we say. I would be very curious why they don't want a realtor involved. Nothing is stopping them from making a lowball offer and negotiating, after all.
From what I know about the market, the fact you built the commission into the price probably means you have overpriced the house to begin with. It is possible your realtor really isn't very good-I'm surprise you haven't even gotten any lowball offers-but unless your house has some big honking flaw, no offers means priced too high.
posted by konolia at 3:49 PM on September 2, 2008
Screw the lawyers. Read your listing agreement. What you signed is what you're bound by.
Because if 94% of the current asking price seems OK to you, then just go ahead and sell it to them for that and let the agent collect his or her 6% of the lower price.
From the 94%? If the buyers found the house on their own then the agent is getting something for nothing here.
posted by troy at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2008
Because if 94% of the current asking price seems OK to you, then just go ahead and sell it to them for that and let the agent collect his or her 6% of the lower price.
From the 94%? If the buyers found the house on their own then the agent is getting something for nothing here.
posted by troy at 4:44 PM on September 2, 2008
No the agent isn't. The agent is responsible for things like paperwork, scheduling appraisals, termite reports, etc. etc. A lot of things can go wrong very quickly in a real estate deal and the realtor is the one that keeps things together.
Actually, if the buyers had any brains they would have their own realtor (buyers agent) looking out for THEIR interests in the deal. The commission would be split, which is no problem for the listing agent as generally deals do involve two agents.
As a matter of fact, and I shouldn't be telling you this, you can negotiate with your agent and see if he/she will take a lower commission on the deal. If they are smart they will say no since they would be doing double work as they would be an acting dual agent for the deal, tho.
Tell your church people to talk to you when they have a buyer's agent.
posted by konolia at 5:16 PM on September 2, 2008
Actually, if the buyers had any brains they would have their own realtor (buyers agent) looking out for THEIR interests in the deal. The commission would be split, which is no problem for the listing agent as generally deals do involve two agents.
As a matter of fact, and I shouldn't be telling you this, you can negotiate with your agent and see if he/she will take a lower commission on the deal. If they are smart they will say no since they would be doing double work as they would be an acting dual agent for the deal, tho.
Tell your church people to talk to you when they have a buyer's agent.
posted by konolia at 5:16 PM on September 2, 2008
A lot of things can go wrong very quickly in a real estate deal and the realtor is the one that keeps things together.
Yes, a lot of things can go wrong for the BUYER, who has arrived of their own accord.
The seller just has to wait to cash the check. FSBO legalities can also be taken care of by RE lawyers who charge by the hour instead of by the %.
Note that konolia is an excellent resource for this question because IIRC her spouse is a RE agent -- but by the same token her spouse is a RE agent.
posted by troy at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2008
Yes, a lot of things can go wrong for the BUYER, who has arrived of their own accord.
The seller just has to wait to cash the check. FSBO legalities can also be taken care of by RE lawyers who charge by the hour instead of by the %.
Note that konolia is an excellent resource for this question because IIRC her spouse is a RE agent -- but by the same token her spouse is a RE agent.
posted by troy at 5:19 PM on September 2, 2008
From the 94%? If the buyers found the house on their own then the agent is getting something for nothing here.
The agent is getting the return that the seller agreed to in signing a representation agreement, you mean.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:42 PM on September 2, 2008
The agent is getting the return that the seller agreed to in signing a representation agreement, you mean.
posted by Sidhedevil at 5:42 PM on September 2, 2008
I've seen things go south really fast for sellers, as well.
posted by konolia at 6:10 PM on September 2, 2008
posted by konolia at 6:10 PM on September 2, 2008
Getting an agent to me doesn't seem like a wise thing to do, especially at this point. If you have concerns about the integrity of the home, get a home inspector to the tune of a couple hundred dollars and make your disclosures, and build those into the final price. Probably a worthwhile thing to do.
With that, and someone to take care of the documentation for another couple of hundred, you should be fine. No need to throw five figures away at agents, etc. Realtors, brokers and the like are a dated institution anyway.
We sold my grandfather's old place in Southern CA to the guy down the street. The broker got over $50,000 in commission and found the buyer on the first day. Who bought it? The guy down the block. Do I wish I had run a FSBO first? Yup.
posted by No New Diamonds Please at 6:39 PM on September 2, 2008
With that, and someone to take care of the documentation for another couple of hundred, you should be fine. No need to throw five figures away at agents, etc. Realtors, brokers and the like are a dated institution anyway.
We sold my grandfather's old place in Southern CA to the guy down the street. The broker got over $50,000 in commission and found the buyer on the first day. Who bought it? The guy down the block. Do I wish I had run a FSBO first? Yup.
posted by No New Diamonds Please at 6:39 PM on September 2, 2008
The agent is getting the return that the seller agreed to in signing a representation agreement
For nothing, then, since the seller would be in the same position of having an able buyer without having hired the agent.
The listing contract is just that, an document of understanding between the seller and the agent. It is not a carte blanche royalty license for the future sales activity of the seller's property.
posted by troy at 6:43 PM on September 2, 2008
For nothing, then, since the seller would be in the same position of having an able buyer without having hired the agent.
The listing contract is just that, an document of understanding between the seller and the agent. It is not a carte blanche royalty license for the future sales activity of the seller's property.
posted by troy at 6:43 PM on September 2, 2008
I am a real estate broker (not your broker, not giving any legal advice). Here's the basic structure for a real estate listing contract in Missouri. This will vary largely from state to state, and from listing agreement to agreement.
Generally, in my experience, a listing contract can be terminated at will by the seller. After the termination or end date of the listing contract, there is a period of time that the agent is still due a commission if a sale is made. For most agreements this applies only to people who were shown the home during the listing period.
Here is where it gets particularly sticky: If you signed an Exclusive Agency contract, it generally means that is the only Real Estate agent authorized to list the home (and you could also sell it yourself without owing a commission). It is more likely that you had an Exclusive Right-To-Sell contract with the agent, which means you are obligated to refer any buyers to the agent, and cannot sell it yourself during the listing period. If you have this type of agreement, then this deal with the church friends would be against the contract terms. Go back and carefully read your original listing agreement.
I know it would be frustrating to pay your agent a commission after finding a buyer outside of their services. But if your contract has these terms in place, that is what you agreed to originally. Let me know if you have any questions, but if you have any questions about your contract it would be best to consult a lawyer, particularly a real estate lawyer.
posted by shinynewnick at 6:53 PM on September 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Generally, in my experience, a listing contract can be terminated at will by the seller. After the termination or end date of the listing contract, there is a period of time that the agent is still due a commission if a sale is made. For most agreements this applies only to people who were shown the home during the listing period.
Here is where it gets particularly sticky: If you signed an Exclusive Agency contract, it generally means that is the only Real Estate agent authorized to list the home (and you could also sell it yourself without owing a commission). It is more likely that you had an Exclusive Right-To-Sell contract with the agent, which means you are obligated to refer any buyers to the agent, and cannot sell it yourself during the listing period. If you have this type of agreement, then this deal with the church friends would be against the contract terms. Go back and carefully read your original listing agreement.
I know it would be frustrating to pay your agent a commission after finding a buyer outside of their services. But if your contract has these terms in place, that is what you agreed to originally. Let me know if you have any questions, but if you have any questions about your contract it would be best to consult a lawyer, particularly a real estate lawyer.
posted by shinynewnick at 6:53 PM on September 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
The listing contract is just that, an document of understanding between the seller and the agent. It is not a carte blanche royalty license for the future sales activity of the seller's property.
I agree.
But I don't know what the Georgia law is on whether you still owe the commission if you identify a buyer while the property is still under contract. I believe (and IANAREA, although I was licensed to be one at one point) that this varies quite a bit from state to state.
So, yeah, if the agent sees that twistedmetal has FSBO'd the house on October 12, the day after the listing contract expires, he or she could conceivably make some trouble about that, and whether or not the "trouble" results in twistedmetal owing the agent some money is a matter for Georgia courts and Georgia lawyers to decide.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2008
I agree.
But I don't know what the Georgia law is on whether you still owe the commission if you identify a buyer while the property is still under contract. I believe (and IANAREA, although I was licensed to be one at one point) that this varies quite a bit from state to state.
So, yeah, if the agent sees that twistedmetal has FSBO'd the house on October 12, the day after the listing contract expires, he or she could conceivably make some trouble about that, and whether or not the "trouble" results in twistedmetal owing the agent some money is a matter for Georgia courts and Georgia lawyers to decide.
posted by Sidhedevil at 6:58 PM on September 2, 2008
But I don't know what the Georgia law is on whether you still owe the commission if you identify a buyer while the property is still under contract
It would surprise me to find such contract-level provisions ensconced in the state civil code. If so, kudos to the state of Georgia's Realtor® lobbyists.
It is more likely that you had an Exclusive Right-To-Sell contract with the agent, which means you are obligated to refer any buyers to the agent
depending on the language of the contract, no? One generally sees clauses like this:
posted by troy at 8:37 PM on September 2, 2008
It would surprise me to find such contract-level provisions ensconced in the state civil code. If so, kudos to the state of Georgia's Realtor® lobbyists.
It is more likely that you had an Exclusive Right-To-Sell contract with the agent, which means you are obligated to refer any buyers to the agent
depending on the language of the contract, no? One generally sees clauses like this:
This Agreement contains the entire agreement of the parties and noThe contract is the contract, and both parties are bound to perform by it.
oral statements or prior agreements shall have any force and effect. This Agreement shall not be modified except by a writing executed by both parties hereto.
posted by troy at 8:37 PM on September 2, 2008
I think if someone wants to FSBO they need to FSBO right off the bat and not waste an agent's time-time they could be spending helping other clients, and oh by the way, earning a living.
Your typical agent doesn't make that much money and I think it is morally wrong to set up a deal and cut them out of it.
And do not think your agent will not notice when that house sells after the contract expires. Don't think your agent won't investigate that deal. You really really really better take our advice and consult a lawyer on this because I promise you if there is a legal leg to stand on that agent WILL get paid.
posted by konolia at 5:37 AM on September 3, 2008
Your typical agent doesn't make that much money and I think it is morally wrong to set up a deal and cut them out of it.
And do not think your agent will not notice when that house sells after the contract expires. Don't think your agent won't investigate that deal. You really really really better take our advice and consult a lawyer on this because I promise you if there is a legal leg to stand on that agent WILL get paid.
posted by konolia at 5:37 AM on September 3, 2008
Troy - that's what I was clarifying. Realtors are not allowed to draft or alter legal documents, or they risk a charge of practicing law. Therefore real estate agents almost always use Standard Forms provided by each state or area's Realtor organization. So for a given area, a large, large majority of real estate contracts that involve Realtors will be one of these standard contracts. The examples of Exclusive Agency and Exclusive Right-To-Sell are two variations of listing contracts in our area. So the Exclusive Right-To-Sell contract has explicit language defining those terms - specifically that the real estate listing agent is to be responsible for all potential buyers, even if they contact the seller directly.
So you are right, the contract is the contract. The OP should be able to find the answers in there, possibly with the assistance of a lawyer.
posted by shinynewnick at 6:14 AM on September 3, 2008
So you are right, the contract is the contract. The OP should be able to find the answers in there, possibly with the assistance of a lawyer.
posted by shinynewnick at 6:14 AM on September 3, 2008
Your typical agent doesn't make that much money and I think it is morally wrong to set up a deal and cut them out of it.
konolia, the "deal" with an agent is, at its heart, for them to FIND A BUYER, not "take my cut when the house is sold".
The contracts I've seen go into the details to ensure the agent is paid should s/he find a willing & able buyer (whether or not this buyer makes his offer during the contract period).
posted by troy at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2008
konolia, the "deal" with an agent is, at its heart, for them to FIND A BUYER, not "take my cut when the house is sold".
The contracts I've seen go into the details to ensure the agent is paid should s/he find a willing & able buyer (whether or not this buyer makes his offer during the contract period).
posted by troy at 8:49 AM on September 3, 2008
Response by poster: Update:
I spoke with my REA about the situation. He agreed to a smaller commission if I sold the house with him "guiding" me -a sort of consultation fee. I am ok with this.
I also got some clarification on the "Protection Period" here is what he told me about it:
"The Protection Period is in effect for anyone that is shown the property during the time that it is listed with me. For instance, if someone sees it today and then were to talk to you and say "hey, I'll buy it from you after it expires and you wont have to pay a commission to anybody so you'll be able to sell it to me for 5% less", then if you were to sell it to that person within 90 days of it expiring off the market then a commission would be due. If they see it for the 1st time after it expires then you could sell it to them the next day and you wouldn't owe a commission."
Thanks for everyone's input.
posted by twistedmetal at 10:18 AM on September 23, 2008
I spoke with my REA about the situation. He agreed to a smaller commission if I sold the house with him "guiding" me -a sort of consultation fee. I am ok with this.
I also got some clarification on the "Protection Period" here is what he told me about it:
"The Protection Period is in effect for anyone that is shown the property during the time that it is listed with me. For instance, if someone sees it today and then were to talk to you and say "hey, I'll buy it from you after it expires and you wont have to pay a commission to anybody so you'll be able to sell it to me for 5% less", then if you were to sell it to that person within 90 days of it expiring off the market then a commission would be due. If they see it for the 1st time after it expires then you could sell it to them the next day and you wouldn't owe a commission."
Thanks for everyone's input.
posted by twistedmetal at 10:18 AM on September 23, 2008
I think you did the best and fair thing for all concerned. Kudos!
posted by konolia at 12:57 PM on September 23, 2008
posted by konolia at 12:57 PM on September 23, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by No New Diamonds Please at 1:21 PM on September 2, 2008