What can I do to make our unequally-yoked marriage better?

August 28, 2008 6:15 PM

What can be done in a marriage where one spouse believes in God and the other doesn't? The wife is (sort of newly) atheist and the husband can't accept this fact. Is there any hope?

I am the wife in this situation and it is very frustrating. I got married very young (18) to an older man and obviously hadn't had the time and experience to develop my own set of beliefs and personality.

Now almost five years later I feel more confident and sure of my belief (or lack of belief) in God. I was never a very religious to begin with but he was and I in my youth admired that because I felt he was a better person than I was. He was older and seemed to be more mature and have a better life than I did.

Now however I feel good about my beliefs and my conviction. I don't think he needs to change and I respect his beliefs.

But he won't let this go and it is to the point that I think we need to separate. I see his side of the argument. He wanted a wife who was religious and shared his belief and when we first met I was more open and had a belief in God.

He resisted me going into the field of science because he was afraid I would stop believing in God. At that time I was already not believing in God anyway but wasn't open about it. I tried testing the waters to see how he would react and it was always incredibly negative ("That's not acceptable, etc. etc.").

I finally decided to "come out" this year because I feel we have grown apart so much since he doesn't know who I am. This has caused nothing but contention in our marriage.

He doesn't want to divorce or separate. He says he only loves me. He says this hurts him so much. He cries so much over this and says I am hurting him by doing this. So I have to listen to him say stuff like "Oh, some day you will change your belief back," and similar sentiments, which I guess make him feel better if he believes that. He also says I am closed-minded because I said I am not open to changing my beliefs, but that I will support him in his in any way (I'll attend church with him etc. but that isn't enough. Also, he has never attended church the entire time I have known him but he was raised in a pretty conservative religion).

We have already agreed we aren't going to have children, so we don't have that issue to worry about, but he is personally offended by my lack of belief in God and thinks calling me stubborn, close-minded, etc. is the way to get to me. I also get offended by his attitude that I need to "open my eyes" to what he sees.

We have had our disagreements over stuff like this before, but this is the biggest one and obviously the most contentious. I am tired of feeling shamed and like a bad person for growing up into a person who is more confident and more respectful of other people. He says I am closed-minded because I say I know myself and I don't see myself "changing" back to believing in God, but I am very open minded and respect everyone's belief. He, however, is very intolerant (politically, religiously, philosophically) and generally has the attitude that he is right and everyone else is wrong.

At this point all we do is fight when the issue comes up or when he is being "nice" about it I get told that hopefully some day I will be able to see the truth (that there is a God). He has asked me to attend church with him. I said I would be open to attending church with him to support his beliefs, but not for the purpose of trying to change my beliefs. That ultimately is the purpose of his new found need to attend church, though, so I am not open to it (like I said, he hasn't attended church at all since I've known him).

I honestly don't know what to do. This issue is driving us apart and I'm tired of feeling like a bad person who has to defend why I believe what I believe all the time. He never mentioned God or religion in our relationship much at all but after I told him and was open and honest about my beliefs, he started to interject conversations with "Oh, look, it is the work of God." or "That's because God did it!" and stuff like that, waiting for me to respond. Either I say nothing and feel terrible about myself, or if I say I respect his belief but don't share it it starts another fight.

I just am devastated that I am with someone who says they respect my beliefs and respect me, but never shows it in action. I'm tired of being told I am hurting him, that I am all of these bad things, just by being who I am.

Also, he will endlessly hound me about what I believe, and when I say I don't know if there is a higher power, that of course I can't rule out there be ANY sort of higher power, he will respond "Oh see, you do believe in God. We have the same beliefs" as a way of making himself feel better about being with me I guess.

I've suggested we separate and that I would love for him to find someone who makes him happy and shares his beliefs because ultimately it isn't fair for him to be with someone less than ideal, but he feels it is better to I guess stick it out and try to change me.

What can I do to help my situation? Should I just hide my beliefs and not respond when he asked or says stuff that is obviously supposed to instigate a religious discussion? Should I just tell him I'm "open" to the possibility, even though I don't feel like I am? Is it wrong I am not open to that possibility? I just don't feel it is a belief that can ever fit into my life, my way of thinking.

I can't change him but what can I do to change myself or my actions to make this a better situation?

posted by anonymous to human relations (44 comments total)

If he's started to go to church suddenly, maybe he's having some kind of crisis of faith?

Ultimately, I have to think that if all else is right with the marriage, this wouldn't be a big deal. Maybe this is a proxy issue for something else?
posted by gjc at 6:27 PM on August 28, 2008

You need to talk about couples therapy asap and, if he balks at that, you need to get out. The problem is not just that he and you have a different beliefs, but that he feels the need to control you. But even on re-read, it really sounds like you need to go through with the difficult decision to leave him. I wish you well.
posted by history is a weapon at 6:28 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

A very high proportion of young marriages don't work out. If you wind up walking away from this marriage it wouldn't be surprising, especially based on what you've said above. It sounds like you've grown and matured in ways that your husband didn't expect.

I think a start would be to communicate what you said in the opening: you were 18 when you married, and still growing up, learning about the world around you...

Did you husband always expect you to stay the same, 18-year-old person?

With age most people realize just how clueless, underprepared, ill equipped teenagers are to deal with questions of faith, let alone building lasting marriages. It doesn't sound like your husband is one of those people...
posted by wfrgms at 6:28 PM on August 28, 2008

Sorry, I have to second DTMFA.

One's beliefs can have a legit impact on a relationship: I was in a relationship in which my girlfriend knew, thought, was sure, that I was headed to damnation. But that wasn't what broke us up - people can be compatible with each others free choices, even if they're of that magnitude.

But,

He, however, is very intolerant (politically, religiously, philosophically) and generally has the attitude that he is right and everyone else is wrong.

No, this is not a good guy.

Disclaimer: 21/unmarried/athiest
posted by tmcw at 6:30 PM on August 28, 2008 [4 favorites]

control freak. passive aggressive. cowardly. sadistic. he also doesn't respect you, your intelligence, your needs.

go away.
posted by matteo at 6:33 PM on August 28, 2008 [2 favorites]

I'm so sorry that you're going through this - not the atheism (good for you for discovering such an integral part of yourself), but that you're having such a hard time with your spouse. It's also obvious that you're trying hard to make it work and make sense of things, and that's really great, too. It's incredibly unfair for people to tell you to leave him without providing any helpful advice. What works for some people will not work for others; every person and every marriage is different.

I don't have any personal experience with this (also, I'm single), but there are two blogs written by a husband and wife that might be helpful. The husband is an atheist, the wife is a Christian. They work on their marriage and believe wholeheartedly that it can work (and it seems to be working). Husband's blog is here, and wife's blog is here. Posts about marriage are here.

I hope that whatever happens, you take care of yourself.
posted by mewithoutyou at 6:35 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm sorry you're going through this.

You seem to be doing very well--maintaining your values while still trying to make the other person happy.

But, your husband doesn't want that. He wants you to believe in X. Why he needs you to believe in X is irrelevant.

The reason why his reasons for insisting on this are irrelevant is: He will not accept compromise, and it would be immoral for you to compromise anymore than you already have, which would make you lie.

Do not lie to him and claim you're "open" to the possibility if you know you are not; it's not going to help, in the long term. In the short term, sure; he'll smile and think about how secretly you love you etc. etc. because it's what he needs to believe. In the long term, it's far more hurtful and you know you shouldn't do it because you're already hesitant.

It is not wrong that you are not open to the possibility of converting back into his faith as you currently honestly feel that it is not a possibility. You tried it, it didn't work, you don't see why it would work in the future. That's not wrong, that's human and honest. And honesty is far more important here.

As far as I am concerned, you have tried everything you can, and unless he is willing to compromise as well, it cannot work. You may need to separate. Tell him that the separation hinges on his ability (not 'will', but ability--he may WANT to compromise but feel it's impossible because it's too important to him) to compromise--therapy, or letting you go to church and him dropping the subject of actual belief, etc--ANY sort of reasonable compromise. If he fails, the separation will follow.

If he is as you described, he will likely not take to this well. If he behaves badly, that should prove that the separation is required as he is not respecting you. He needs to respect you. He needs to respect your beliefs. He needs to know that he cannot control your thoughts.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 6:36 PM on August 28, 2008 [4 favorites]

"I can't change him but what can I do to change myself or my actions to make this a better situation?"

Ask yourself - why isn't he asking this question of himself?
posted by TorontoSandy at 6:39 PM on August 28, 2008 [7 favorites]

Well, it's definitely a good thing that you're in agreement about not having children.

Your husband's behavior is evidence of a very basic lack of respect. It sounds like, by marrying an 18-year-old, he thought he was getting a pliable doormat onto whom he could project his beliefs. By deciding that you're an atheist and making your beliefs known, you are not only bound for eternal damnation, but you've proven that you have a mind of your own and that there are some issues where you're not willing to compromise yourself. I suspect that's what's "hurting" him.

I second the idea of suggesting marital counseling. Maybe you could find a spiritual-but-not-overtly-Christian counselor so your husband feels like he's being understood. You need to find a way to convince your husband that your atheism is NOT a dealbreaker, but his intolerance is.
posted by arianell at 6:40 PM on August 28, 2008 [3 favorites]

Sure it can work. I know vehement atheists married to religious folks. But if it work's it's predicated on some degree of respect, or at least not getting in to those arguments. Your husband doesn't respect you, given the description above.

If the picture you paint is accurate, your husband doesn't want it to work except with you being intellectually subservient to him in matters of religion and politics. I don't see how it can work unless you want to be his meek lil' woman who goes along with everything he says and believes. If I were you, I'd cut my losses.
posted by rodgerd at 6:40 PM on August 28, 2008

* Sorry, I just realized that it might sound like I'm urging you to stay with your husband no matter what - I'm not. You don't deserve to suffer in an emotionally abusive marriage. If his attitude is a result of shock, and he gets over himself and decides to try to make it work, and that's what you want, too, then great. But if his treatment of you doesn't change, that's not love - it's control.
posted by mewithoutyou at 6:41 PM on August 28, 2008

An older religious man who marries a younger woman open to religion is without fail a man who is looking to control his wife through the brand of religion that he gets to introduce to her. He was hoping that you would be a gullible, easily controlled pawn, less a partner than a pet.

He doesn't respect you. He is frustrated and disappointed that he will not be able to dictate your life, and that you will not have to "serve" him as a godly, obedient wife.

Good for you. Divorce that dipshit and never look back. :)
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:44 PM on August 28, 2008 [3 favorites]

Mixed marriages of believers and non-believers definitely can work. My religious wife and I just celebrated our 14th anniversary.

Your problem has nothing to do with religion though. Your husband is trying to control you. If it wasn't God it would be something else.
posted by LarryC at 6:45 PM on August 28, 2008 [6 favorites]

"I've suggested we separate..., but he feels it is better to I guess stick it out and try to change me."

Well, he can feel that all he wants, but it doesn't mean that's actually the best decision. You can unilaterally decide that you will leave.

So it's up to you to decide under what conditions you're willing to stay. Seems to me your conditions begin with this:
1. He agrees not to constantly hassle you about your views on religion.

If the constant hassling is a deal-breaker for you, you know what you need to do.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:49 PM on August 28, 2008

He can't separate, and he can't accept your beliefs, and he can't change his, so the only option remaining to him is for you to change yours. This is not an option either, but he's latched onto it despite this because it's the only scenario that isn't unthinkable to him, regardless of how unrealistic, naive, and unfair it may be.

I think you will need to give an ultimatum - his options are to accept your evolving self (which means making his peace with the new you and helping patch up the relationship) or else separation.

Yours is the finger on the trigger of separation, not his, nor the both of you mutually agreeing. Just yours. You both need to understand that.

You need to make it clear to him that henceforth, attempting to convert you (further damaging the relationship instead of repairing it) is choosing separation. And you need to follow through with that if he fails, as his controlling nature (as described) suggests will happen.

Prep yourself for separation. Being ready and able to separate sounds like your only way to get through to him, so if you're not truly prepared to go through with it, you become powerless, and trapped with someone who knows it.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:50 PM on August 28, 2008 [3 favorites]

I think you know what you want to do:
" I'm tired of feeling like a bad person who has to defend why I believe what I believe all the time"
"I'm tired of being told I am hurting him, that I am all of these bad things, just by being who I am"
"I've suggested we separate and that I would love for him to find someone who makes him happy and shares his beliefs"

The only reason you haven't left him is because he says he doesn't want you to. Well, that's not a decision that he gets to make all by himself. Marriages only stay together if both parties agree. Normally I would suggest marriage counseling but I see no sign in your posting that he would be willing to accept that you might have different, independent beliefs on the question of God. You can't compromise with someone who totally denies your right to have any position but his. So the question is do you (1) want to stay around and pretend to be someone you aren't in order to stay married, (2) stay married, insist on your beliefs and live in a toxic environment, or (3) do you leave. #2 is a truly terrible choice. #1 might fit some women but it doesn't sound like you. So the only other choice is to decide that you and your husband really do have irreconcilable differences and divorce.

He will not like this and you will need to prepared to let him be responsible for his feelings while you take care of yourself. You may see that this frees him to marry someone who better fits his needs. Don't expect him to agree (for a while) and don't let the fact that he can't see the truth about you and your marriage make you feel guilty. You might benefit from some counseling to help you sort out your feelings and make a decision that you can truly feel comfortable is right (and to withstand the backlash from your husband).
posted by metahawk at 6:54 PM on August 28, 2008

I'm not one of these people who jumps into every "my relationship is on the rocks" post and suggests folks at the slightest sign of incompatibility. We have a bunch of those around here, but I'm not one of them.

"I can't change him but what can I do to change myself or my actions to make this a better situation?"

Here's some stuff you should change about yourself: Eliminate utterly your tolerance for being emotionally and psychologically abused. Drastically reduce your willingness to be manipulated by control freaks. Having done those two things, how much more compromise are you willing to make to save a relationship? That will give you an idea of how much more -- any, some, or all -- of his behavior you should put up with before you've had enough.
posted by majick at 6:58 PM on August 28, 2008

Get out. What's going on isn't fair to you, isn't fair to him, and most importantly, it's nobody's fault. Like you, I married young, and my first wife and I grew in different directions. She wanted to end it, even though I didn't, and she was right...and it didn't take me long on my own to see that.

There's nothing to save here.
posted by stevis23 at 7:00 PM on August 28, 2008

I would definitely recommend getting some therapy. I would urge him to join you and make it a couples thing, but if that if he doesn't choose to do so, let him know you'll be going ahead. It does sound like he has some issues that are outside the whole "religion" argument, and maybe (hopefully) this can be acknowledged and resolved with some third party help.

Otherwise, I would recommend considering a separation and deep look into how this relationship will affect your future.

I've been in a marriage where I was not respected and subtle control was the norm, and at the time, even though things were bad, leaving was such an awful thought and I thought "we can make it work." Unfortunately, you can only change yourself. We can want people to treat us as we want/deserve, but sometimes, they have their own issues that make that a not-realistic expectation.

I'm now in a marriage where our religious beliefs have shifted almost 180 degree (I started off not believing in God at all, he started off believing a little - now, I believe a little and he not at all). Not that our marriage is perfect, but the underlying difference is that my current husband wants me to be my personal best regardless of whatever else is going on. And I want the same for him.

IMHO, if the two of you can reach a place where you both love and respect each other and your difference, it's worth fighting for. But if not, then you need to love and respect yourself enough not to separate from someone who doesn't offer you that.
posted by zalary at 7:04 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

Yes, believers and unbelievers can be happy together in a marriage. Mr. Sidhedevil hates religion with the fire of a thousand burning nuns, and I go to church every week.

That said, the religion here is not the problem, as everyone else has said. The problem here is your husband trying to control you.

I don't think counseling is going to help him realize that he needs to change this, but if you want to give that a shot, you'd be more than generous to offer him that option.

And if he won't do that, you need to end the marriage.

Seriously, the appropriate behavior from someone who's religious and wants to be married to someone who shares that religious belief, upon learning that his or her spouse does not share that religious belief, is "Oh, dear. We've grown apart around something that's incredibly important to me. Is it possible for us to negotiate a way to manage this as a couple, or do we need to end things?" It is not "YOU MUST CHANGE."
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:10 PM on August 28, 2008 [2 favorites]

addendum:

then you need to love and respect yourself enough not to separate from someone
should read

then you need to love and respect yourself enough TO separate from someone w
posted by zalary at 7:13 PM on August 28, 2008

This is my 2 cent input.....have you ever looked into, lets say, Buddhism? Some consider it a religion; I consider it a spiritual philosophy (basically learning ways to end personal suffering). If you were open to such a thing (which I would recommend to anyone, because at the very least it will help you better deal with emotions such as what you’re struggling with), but you could in theory attend a Unitarian Universalist church, which is basically for all walks of life… anyone interested in spiritual growth. But if your husband would even be against that idea and only wanted you to attend “his” church, then I don’t believe this is a relationship worth subjecting yourself to.
posted by texas_blissful at 7:15 PM on August 28, 2008

Is it wrong I am not open to that possibility? I just don't feel it is a belief that can ever fit into my life, my way of thinking.

There's nothing wrong with that. I went from believer to non-believer and now feel like I'll never be a practicing Christian again. My nagging questions kept nagging, and my church community felt less and less like a spiritual home. However, I figure that if Jesus really, really wants me back, he'll find a way to let me know. I like to think that if there is a God, and God wants to be in relationship with me, God will somehow call me back in a way that enhances my life and meets the needs my former faith did not meet. In the mean time, I assume that's not going to happen.

It sounds like your husband wants you to return to faith on his terms, to serve his fantasy of a proper Christian marriage. What he is talking about when he says "belief" and the issues you're grappling with are completely different things. He is using your thoughtfulness about belief and your tolerance of and respect for others' beliefs to manipulate you. It's a really horrible thing to do to someone you love, and frankly I don't think Jesus would approve.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:04 PM on August 28, 2008

Fighting constantly over one issue, no matter what the issue is, is a recipe for the whole relationship to go down the toilet.

The only thing I can recommend to try and salvage your relationship (if that's what you truly want) is couples' counseling. Otherwise, no, your unequally-yoked marriage won't get any less painful.

My own parents ended up divorcing because my father couldn't accept my mother's lack of faith in the deity of his choosing. And yes, it was my mother who left. My father would have kept going for a million years in the hopes that one day she would "return to the Lord." In a relationship like that (and like what you're describing), it would have indeed taken a million years.

If you feel like separation is your only option to maintain your sanity, you know that you gave it your best. Separation is sometimes inevitable in situations like this, it's better for you to accept it if that's what you need to do rather than to keep trying to fix something that just can't be fixed.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 8:33 PM on August 28, 2008

Strangely enough, I went through this not too long ago. Luckily, my husband gave me credit for being a thinking person. I made it very clear to him that I had given it loads of thought, and I was definitely not taking my eternal soul lightly.

He was raised to NEVER question his Christian upbringing. It would surely end with him being struck by lightening and burning in the Eternal fires of Hell.™ I was raised with a vague notion of hell, but was assured that since Jesus died for my sins(huh?), I would pretty much be able to get into heaven, so that worked for me.

When I first brought up my unbelief, he was very scared for my soul, and very worried that he had married the devil's daughter (even though I was obviously still myself) and I could see the panic in his eyes. I reassured him that I wasn't going to go out and eat any babies. It certainly helped that I had read my Bible twice, and at one point, believed every word, no matter how farfetched. (He hadn't read it AT ALL but was decidedly Christian.)

I just kept(sweetly) reminding him about the inconsistancies in the whole thing, and that I wasn't just going to accept the old, "God works in mysterious ways" and "Don't question Him" and all the smoke and mirrors. Eventually, he had no choice but to admit that I made waaaaaay more sense than he did when he would tell me to "just have faith" or "His ways are not our ways."

If your husband can't or won't see that you are an intelligent person who happens to have come to a completely rational conclusion, and won't even let you communicate your reasons for coming to that conclusion, then you *are* unequally yoked, and you will never be truly happy.
posted by Grlnxtdr at 8:40 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

I second matteo about him being a control freak - this seems like a power struggle right now; it feels like he just wants to control what you think. Maybe you can suggest a timeout for a month where neither one of you gets to bring it up. It doesn't solve the problem, but maybe it will bring the intensity down a little.

Good luck.
posted by gt2 at 8:42 PM on August 28, 2008

Ok, he wants you to go to church now, he wants you to accept his faith, but how will he really know that you do (if you decided to that is?) Would there be ANYTHING that you could do to prove to him that he wouldn't stop nagging you? Faith and belief is such a personal thing - how would he really know you aren't just giving lip service and is that what he would really want?

The others are right (although I am not certain about the degree) that he is looking for power over you - the egging you on, the things about "God's Will" or whatever is designed to get a rise out of you. Very similar to my brother who did everything he could to get me to scream when I was a kid.

You have three choices:
1. You can chose to be upset by this and continue on as you are.
2. You can chose not to rise to his bait, to not give him the power to make you upset. Yes, this is a decision on your part - you don't have to get upset by him. If you are secure in your beliefs you can find some non-committal answer for him that doesn't upset your values. (I would give the same one every time if possible.) This probably will make him do more of the comments for awhile, but you can at least feel better knowing that you chose not to give him the power over your emotions.
3. You can leave. You don't have to stay if you really don't want to.

Personally, I would ask him the question I asked at the top, (and don't expect an answer, just put the thought in his head,) then try #2 for a good while. Don't argue, don't show you are angry or upset, because that will keep him going. (It shows that you aren't really sure of your beliefs and that you might change. People who truly believe something don't have to debate, don't get upset when others question.) Be firm in your beliefs, but don't disrespect his. If you find that after a good period of time he doesn't let up, then you may want to consider #3.

wife of 445supermag
posted by 445supermag at 9:03 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

It doesn't sound worth saving to me, honestly, and not just because of the religious conflict. Not the most detailed or helpful advice, I realize, but not every couple is meant to be together.
posted by Nattie at 9:36 PM on August 28, 2008

Ask him to read Psalms 82
A Rebuke of Unjust Judgments
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked?
3 Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods
and all of you are children of the Most High.
7 But ye shall die like men,
and fall like one of the princes.
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth:
for thou shalt inherit all nations
in other words , if he cannot accept and recognize your divine nature, let him continue on his dark path alone. life is short you do not deserve harsh judgment.
posted by hortense at 9:50 PM on August 28, 2008

Happily married for 8 years here. I "believe," in an abstract sense, she does not. But we also really respect each other's ability to think critically. We'd never reject outright what the other thinks and the conversation is constantly evolving. Spirituality is a complex thing and we are both mistrustful of people who purport to know the "one true path." So religious differences *can* coexist in a healthy marriage.

Unfortunately, this does not appear to describe your marriage.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 10:23 PM on August 28, 2008 [1 favorite]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I've been in the same situation as yourself. Fortunately, I didn't get married at such a young age. You've begun to mature into the person you need to be and your husband isn't supportive of that. You will continue to mature and form your own opinions as a critically-thinking human. This is only natural. As your husband continues to cling to his orthodox belief system, you will continue to run into conflict with him over this all-encompassing aspect of your lives. He seems incapable of reasoning, and is hunkered down in a "them vs. us" mentality. Save yourself years of further heartache and frustration.

You may continue to try to have a dialog with him about your mindset, growth, view of the world, etc., but I doubt he'll truly hear you. At best, he may make motions to placate you in order to hold onto you, but it won't be genuine, and it will only prolong the inevitable. Be kind to yourself. It's a huge world out there with much opportunity in all areas, especially at your age. There's a secular, open-minded, loving, faithful person looking for you now. Don't spend the rest of your life thinking about him. He's as real as your feelings about any imaginary superbeing.
posted by Lucy2Times at 10:58 PM on August 28, 2008

when I say I don't know if there is a higher power, that of course I can't rule out there be ANY sort of higher power, he will respond "Oh see, you do believe in God. We have the same beliefs"
I thought that this was actually rather positive, compared to the christianity I know. He seems to be looking for common ground. This, together with the fact that he does not seem to be a religious extremist (never went to church), makes me think that there is room for couples therapy. But it is not going to work if only you change. You can't change him, that's right, but he can change himself and he should be willing to do that for you.

I've suggested we separate and that I would love for him to find someone who makes him happy and shares his beliefs because ultimately it isn't fair for him to be with someone less than ideal
This sounds a bit passive-aggressive to me. If you want to leave, do it because YOU do not want to be with him anymore, not under the pretense that it is so much better for him. And of course an ideal wife does not exist. You know that.

You don't say anywhere that you still love him. Do you?
posted by davar at 12:21 AM on August 29, 2008

My perspective and experience is nearly identical to meg_murry's. Being the one un-convert in my family, I've experienced similar things, especially from "authority figures". But what everyone said about "control issues" and "emotional abuse/manipulation" is spot-on. The part about him discouraging you from the sciences really highlights that to me. And I feel that the current mentality/culture of "fundamentalist christianity" encourages these behaviors... esp. the anti-intellectual version of faith and submissive-wife attitudes.

You need to be as certain of the worth of your happiness as you are of the non-existence of god. You aren't responsible for his emotions here -- because you are being true to yourself, and he isn't accepting that and tolerating your beliefs. There are some good suggestions here, but I wouldn't spend too long hoping for a change. The security/potential of this relationship doesn't seem to be worth the guilting and the fighting and the loneliness.
posted by vaguelyweird at 12:24 AM on August 29, 2008

2 things:
age: I am 29 years older than my wife and we have been married 25 glorious years

belief: best example: Darwin and his wife who was very religious and he not so. it worked for them because he respected her views.
posted by Postroad at 4:14 AM on August 29, 2008

I had the first post, which said DTMFA, and that got removed, but looks like other people are agreeing. I reiterate: DTMFA. This dude sounds intolerant and abusive.

FWIW, I'm 20/f/atheist.
posted by kldickson at 5:25 AM on August 29, 2008

If he resisted you going into science for fear that it would shake your faith, he sounds sort of controlling and not very faithful about -you- or even his own faith. That means that either he was aware that you had shaky faith to begin with or he is aware his own beliefs aren't rational, and as such, hates and fears being logical. I suspect that your atheism is pushing him to have to have to examine his beliefs and he's trying to punish you for the fact that his faith is slipping.

I'd say that either he needs to grow up or you need to get out. And no more 'I'll leave if you want' business. You can leave a marriage without his permission, right?

(22/f/atheist and happily dating a slightly more faithful person)
posted by Phalene at 5:41 AM on August 29, 2008

DTMFA. 24/m/strong agnostic leaning towards atheist. I'll spare you my own similar narrative, but I believe that you're unlikely to change him and he's unlikely to change. If it is important for him to have a religious wife and raise a religious family, he probably won't accept your atheism. Also, with kids in the picture, think about how that will play out -- will they believe one of their parents is hellbound? Are you willing to live with that? I wasn't.

That said, don't take my word for it, have an honest conversation with him about these issues, maybe in the context of marriage counseling, as others have suggested. If he's unwilling to have a civil discussion, then, well, DTMFA.
posted by Alterscape at 11:02 AM on August 29, 2008

It sounds like your husband thinks that your religious stance defines him in some way -- that it's part of his identity. This kind of thing happens a lot, not always about religion. It's not a good thing when a spouse can't really distinguish where one partner's individuality ends and the other's begins. I'd wager that your husband has trouble with other aspects of your separate identity, in addition to this one. For right now, give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's disappointed, confused, and afraid. He was going along, holding certain hopes and assumptions, and now he's having trouble accepting a different reality. Maybe with help he can figure out that your atheism isn't going to do him any harm.

Counseling for yourself would be a good thing, so you can get clear on what you need want, and feel confident about those things. Counseling for the two of you together could help a lot. I'd even go so far as to suggest that your husband talk with his pastor about it. A cleric who believes in fostering strong marriages might help him get over his confusion about what marriage is, versus what he'd like it to me.

Do get help, before your husband does further damage to your relationship.
posted by wryly at 11:23 AM on August 29, 2008

While I agree with most of the responses so far, one additional point occurs to me: he may be bluffing. He's adamant about his religious beliefs yet he never goes to church. Seems to me his actions speak louder than his words.

You could call his bluff by saying you want to explore his religion and your feelings about it by going to church every Sunday, contributing financially, volunteering and going to meetings. Reading between the lines a bit, it sounds like religion was imposed on him with a heavy hand - maybe he just needs a little push to reject it all. Of course, you know him far better than we MeFites do, how do you think he'd react to a nice long sermon, or an hours long Bible study class, or contributing a generous amount of money? If he'd run screaming from it, then you may have your out. A little passive-agressive I must admit but still.
posted by richg at 12:17 PM on August 29, 2008

when I say I don't know if there is a higher power, that of course I can't rule out there be ANY sort of higher power, he will respond "Oh see, you do believe in God. We have the same beliefs"

Try to talk to a UU minister about this. Take your husband if you can.

They are really sympathetic to this kind of thing, because they're equipped to talk about different belief systems and find the compatibilities instead of the conflicts. I've seen it work before.

I don't know why everyone is saying their age and gender, here, but for what it's worth, I'm not an athiest, I'm a Quaker.

I sympathize with your husband somewhat, if only because I know that sometimes stating my beliefs sounds to others like I'm trying to convert them, when I'm really not. Yes, I have a religious reason for opposing war, so if you ask me about the war I might mention it. If people ask me about my religion, I will invite them to attend meeting with me so they can see what it's all about. I don't beat people about the head with it, but sometimes people do take it the wrong way

Of course, I haven't tried to convert my partner, but I have let him know that he can come to meeting if he wants to, and I talk about my beliefs with him sometimes.
posted by sondrialiac at 12:40 PM on August 29, 2008

when I say I don't know if there is a higher power, that of course I can't rule out there be ANY sort of higher power, he will respond "Oh see, you do believe in God. We have the same beliefs"

Late to the party, but it sounds like you're an agnostic. Which is fine (I'm one too!), but it can be a difficult boat to be in, because, as you've already learned, religious proselytizers will read your doubt as a weakness to be exploited for hopes of conversion. What I want to say is, don't give up your doubt! One of the things that I think is beautiful about agnosticism is the agnostic's ability to admit that we're smart enough not to know all of the answers. This can lead you down a very different spiritual path from those who reach for some sort of absolute certainty--it keeps you exploring, I think. I say, explore away.

Unfortunately, that probably is contingent on DingTMF. Really, you deserve more respect as you begin to explore your own personal faith and continue to grow as a person. If your husband can't recognize that curiosity and a willingness to explore religion personally (even if it means that you're areligious) is a good thing, then he doesn't deserve you.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 4:13 PM on August 29, 2008

best example: Darwin and his wife who was very religious and he not so. it worked for them because he respected her views.

And, presumably, she respected his.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:28 AM on August 30, 2008

Mark Twain and his beloved also,
posted by hortense at 10:37 AM on August 30, 2008

(since everyone else is doing it, I'm 31/male/atheist)

I'm very sorry you're in this situation. Congratulations, though, for having the courage to come out as an atheist. I know it can be tough.

Leave the religion aspect aside for the moment. Consider:

1. he's trying to change you;
2. he doesn't respect your beliefs—attacks you for them, endlessly hounds you about them, tells you they aren't acceptable, makes you feel like a bad person for having them (whereas his beliefs—for which, incidentally, there is zero evidence or rational basis—are "the Truth", with a capital T);
3. he's intolerant (i.e., a bigot);
4. you can't change him.

It doesn't matter whether the issue is religion, or something else—this is not a healthy relationship. People like this never change—at least I've never known them to. Even if he can change, it's gonna take a hell of a lot more than you can do to make it happen.

I'm sorry to say, but the others are right: young marriages rarely work out. You have to decide whether you're willing to spend years—possibly decades—putting up with this and hoping (against all probability) that he will change, or whether you want to cut your losses while you're still young, and find someone who won't disrespect you because you don't believe the same (invisible, unjustifiable) things he does.

Or just spend some time single, catching up on the living you haven't been able to do. The early and mid-twenties are the best years of your life (well, they were the best of mine); don't miss out on that for the sake of this guy, or for the sake of a young mistake. You're fortunate that you don't have children complicating the situation.

You sound kind, intelligent, and brave. Use it.
posted by greenie2600 at 4:08 PM on September 4, 2008