jealousy, jealousy
April 27, 2022 6:52 PM Subscribe
How do I stop imagining my ex-boyfriend moving on with a woman he once told me wanted to have a threesome with?
We broke up ~3 months ago, we're both 21 and seniors in college. I know this will be easier when I graduate and don't have to see him around all the time (it's so fucking close, I can taste it), but I'm uncomfortable with how triggering this thought is. The backstory is that for a while when we were dating, he would bring up his fantasy of having a threesome. I'm bi and I've had some fantasies of threesomes with women - but I usually didn't picture specific women that I knew. He did, and during sex, he would often like to tell me which women he was fantasizing about and ask me if I found them attractive, if I ever fantasized about them. I was silly and just really wanted him to like me, and yes, I did find some of the women attractive, so I'd tell him that I also found them attractive.
He never pressured me to a threesome. One time, we got drunk, though, and he brought it up again, and mentioned that he'd talked to one of these women (let's call her M) about it. He said that he brought up the idea with her and she expressed interest. I was pretty shocked and honestly hurt - it definitely felt like I had a boundary crossed because he hadn't run it by me. For a while afterwards (and honestly still now), I kept wondering how the topic came up because that's not the kind of thing you just talk about casually. I kept wondering if he'd been flirting with her, what led him to bring it up with her...this especially haunted me because he once showed me his Instagram and I saw that he'd been looking at her Instagram - that he'd actively searched it up.
When he brought up the fact that M was also interested in a threesome, I got super overwhelmed because I wasn't ready for a threesome and really just wanted it to stay a fantasy (though I had not voiced that, which I regret). He was very kind in response, said that he would not bring it up again, soothed me. He didn't bring it up again, and he reassured me that he and M were just friends and he was only romantically interested in me.
Fast-forwarding: I've seen him and M hanging out around campus recently, and it's starting to torture me a little. When we broke up, he told me that it wasn't because he wanted to date someone else - he just wanted to be single. I mean, it's very possible he was lying, or it's possible that while he doesn't want to date M because he might genuinely want to be single right now, he still wants to hook up with her. I have no evidence that they're doing anything together, but God, just the thought of it is starting to torture me.
I want to learn how to stop being so affected by this thought. I keep trying to remind myself that I don't know what's happening between them, and that regardless, my relationship with him is now in the past. That chapter is over. What he does with whom is no longer any of my business. But it still brings up deeper feelings of anxiety and insecurity that can be so uncomfortable and overwhelming sometimes. It's hit me more and more that towards the end of our relationship, he really had just stopped loving me, so I think part of why these thoughts are so torturous are because I'm taking them as evidence that he has moved on.
More problematic though is the fact that since he told me that he'd talked to M about a threesome, I've always found myself comparing myself to her. I struggle with a general lack of self-confidence (something I'm working on in therapy), which is also why I know I'm not ready for a threesome - because I have self-esteem issues to work through so I can manage jealousy and any of the other feelings that are associated with a threesome. When I think about the two of them hooking up or dating, I keep thinking that he would be so much happier with her because she is so much better than I am. She's so much prettier, smarter, funnier...I don't know how to shut off these thoughts.
Basically, I want to get to a point where I can be unaffected by the thought of my ex hooking up with this woman (or really, any woman -- or just generally unaffected by the thought of my ex). If any of you have any advice on how to do that, I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
We broke up ~3 months ago, we're both 21 and seniors in college. I know this will be easier when I graduate and don't have to see him around all the time (it's so fucking close, I can taste it), but I'm uncomfortable with how triggering this thought is. The backstory is that for a while when we were dating, he would bring up his fantasy of having a threesome. I'm bi and I've had some fantasies of threesomes with women - but I usually didn't picture specific women that I knew. He did, and during sex, he would often like to tell me which women he was fantasizing about and ask me if I found them attractive, if I ever fantasized about them. I was silly and just really wanted him to like me, and yes, I did find some of the women attractive, so I'd tell him that I also found them attractive.
He never pressured me to a threesome. One time, we got drunk, though, and he brought it up again, and mentioned that he'd talked to one of these women (let's call her M) about it. He said that he brought up the idea with her and she expressed interest. I was pretty shocked and honestly hurt - it definitely felt like I had a boundary crossed because he hadn't run it by me. For a while afterwards (and honestly still now), I kept wondering how the topic came up because that's not the kind of thing you just talk about casually. I kept wondering if he'd been flirting with her, what led him to bring it up with her...this especially haunted me because he once showed me his Instagram and I saw that he'd been looking at her Instagram - that he'd actively searched it up.
When he brought up the fact that M was also interested in a threesome, I got super overwhelmed because I wasn't ready for a threesome and really just wanted it to stay a fantasy (though I had not voiced that, which I regret). He was very kind in response, said that he would not bring it up again, soothed me. He didn't bring it up again, and he reassured me that he and M were just friends and he was only romantically interested in me.
Fast-forwarding: I've seen him and M hanging out around campus recently, and it's starting to torture me a little. When we broke up, he told me that it wasn't because he wanted to date someone else - he just wanted to be single. I mean, it's very possible he was lying, or it's possible that while he doesn't want to date M because he might genuinely want to be single right now, he still wants to hook up with her. I have no evidence that they're doing anything together, but God, just the thought of it is starting to torture me.
I want to learn how to stop being so affected by this thought. I keep trying to remind myself that I don't know what's happening between them, and that regardless, my relationship with him is now in the past. That chapter is over. What he does with whom is no longer any of my business. But it still brings up deeper feelings of anxiety and insecurity that can be so uncomfortable and overwhelming sometimes. It's hit me more and more that towards the end of our relationship, he really had just stopped loving me, so I think part of why these thoughts are so torturous are because I'm taking them as evidence that he has moved on.
More problematic though is the fact that since he told me that he'd talked to M about a threesome, I've always found myself comparing myself to her. I struggle with a general lack of self-confidence (something I'm working on in therapy), which is also why I know I'm not ready for a threesome - because I have self-esteem issues to work through so I can manage jealousy and any of the other feelings that are associated with a threesome. When I think about the two of them hooking up or dating, I keep thinking that he would be so much happier with her because she is so much better than I am. She's so much prettier, smarter, funnier...I don't know how to shut off these thoughts.
Basically, I want to get to a point where I can be unaffected by the thought of my ex hooking up with this woman (or really, any woman -- or just generally unaffected by the thought of my ex). If any of you have any advice on how to do that, I would really appreciate it. Thank you very much.
It is possible that he didn't tell you the truth about why he was breaking up. But it doesn't matter. He ended it and that's that.
As far as how to stop imagining ... you can't not not think about something. So maybe follow it all the way through? Go all the way ... imagine the wildest orgies and sex toys and lube and whatever.
May not work for you. Just a suggestion.
posted by falsedmitri at 7:31 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
As far as how to stop imagining ... you can't not not think about something. So maybe follow it all the way through? Go all the way ... imagine the wildest orgies and sex toys and lube and whatever.
May not work for you. Just a suggestion.
posted by falsedmitri at 7:31 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
I can't speak to your particular intrusive thoughts, but in general: time and distance. There's no silver bullet, but it's the end of April now. If you're a senior, you should be graduating and moving on sometime in the next 30-60 days. Can you shift your schedule to avoid encountering them, so it's not top-of-mind? May not be possible if you share classes, but if there's a different dining hall, go there. If he always eats late, eat early. If he goes to some public place you like to go to, try a different public place. And in a couple of months you'll be on to your next adventure. Are you sending out resumes yet? I wish I had, at your age, so I didn't have to worry about moving back in with my dad, etc, etc. It's also something to focus on re: building a new life somewhere else without that jerk in it.
posted by Alterscape at 7:34 PM on April 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
posted by Alterscape at 7:34 PM on April 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
I'm going to clip out of this in a sec, I have work to do..
Rhetorical, or perhaps not: Why does the threesome part bother you? I think when you're a dash younger it can seem overwhelming, especially if you have a hang up on self confidence, but it may help to remember people have been into alternate sex for thousands of years. It's more common than we openly discuss because its often taboo.. it's also still an option later, if you find it is* actually something to which you're attracted. Many people love the setting, and seemingly equally, many people don't, or are even ambivalent.
As for 'jealousy': every person has flaws, and every person has individually unique qualities that set them apart from anyone else. Life is a lot easier when you're not the jealous type, and you can find or create self possessed qualities.
It sounds like this person was drawn toward exploring that side of his nature, and right now, you're looking at other reflections of yourself, more self-involved than balancing your own personality.
I think if you can find it within yourself to keep it light and remember everyone is human in the situation, you may find that the thought dissipates. It may also help to remember sex is not, or shouldn't be scary, even if there's another person involved. ..especially if everyone is on complimentary terms.
Rather than the threesome, it sounds like there were significant communication issues and potentially contrasting paths. Those appear as larger underlying concerns.
I would highly recommend straying from the "assault," perspective. This person doesn't sound horrible/manipulative, everyone in this situation sounds young and as if they're developing in different stages. "Assault,' also seems like a descriptor coming in unintentionally too hot (I did this in some convo earlier today, it happens to everyone).
If it helps, hopefully you'll work into a better sense of self and find someone with a more natural or complimentary cadence to your own communication style and progress. There are a lot of people in the world: I'm sure they exist. If at all possible, try not to think of alt sex as this crazy taboo dangerous thing, and try to humanize these people. You'll be just fine.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:54 PM on April 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Rhetorical, or perhaps not: Why does the threesome part bother you? I think when you're a dash younger it can seem overwhelming, especially if you have a hang up on self confidence, but it may help to remember people have been into alternate sex for thousands of years. It's more common than we openly discuss because its often taboo.. it's also still an option later, if you find it is* actually something to which you're attracted. Many people love the setting, and seemingly equally, many people don't, or are even ambivalent.
As for 'jealousy': every person has flaws, and every person has individually unique qualities that set them apart from anyone else. Life is a lot easier when you're not the jealous type, and you can find or create self possessed qualities.
It sounds like this person was drawn toward exploring that side of his nature, and right now, you're looking at other reflections of yourself, more self-involved than balancing your own personality.
I think if you can find it within yourself to keep it light and remember everyone is human in the situation, you may find that the thought dissipates. It may also help to remember sex is not, or shouldn't be scary, even if there's another person involved. ..especially if everyone is on complimentary terms.
Rather than the threesome, it sounds like there were significant communication issues and potentially contrasting paths. Those appear as larger underlying concerns.
I would highly recommend straying from the "assault," perspective. This person doesn't sound horrible/manipulative, everyone in this situation sounds young and as if they're developing in different stages. "Assault,' also seems like a descriptor coming in unintentionally too hot (I did this in some convo earlier today, it happens to everyone).
If it helps, hopefully you'll work into a better sense of self and find someone with a more natural or complimentary cadence to your own communication style and progress. There are a lot of people in the world: I'm sure they exist. If at all possible, try not to think of alt sex as this crazy taboo dangerous thing, and try to humanize these people. You'll be just fine.
posted by firstdaffodils at 7:54 PM on April 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Adden: You may also do what falsedmitri suggests, but possibly with other people imagined and perhaps not them. ..or them, but like, someone keeps farting, but also burping, then falls asleep and it's so difficult they all have to stop. Up to you.
But seriously, move forward and less awkwardness may exist in any case.
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:14 PM on April 27, 2022
But seriously, move forward and less awkwardness may exist in any case.
posted by firstdaffodils at 8:14 PM on April 27, 2022
Response by poster: Just to clarify, I don’t have any moral problems with threesomes. Really, I think my question is less about threesomes and more about my fears about my ex moving on to someone who is better than me, who he might have always found better than me (the proof of that being that he wanted a threesome with her enough to actually ask her and was clearly very attracted to her). I can see how I might’ve left the impression that I’m uncomfortable with threesomes or think they’re taboo - I don’t think so. As I said, I’ve fantasized about them before and I can see why other people would enjoy them, and it’s not really about the sex at all…it’s more about the feeling “less than”.
posted by cruel summer at 8:41 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by cruel summer at 8:41 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: It is entirely appropriate if this feels like assault and boundary violation because it was, please disregard any attempts to shame you out of those feelings.
You feel bad about this because it was bad. It is not appropriate for a partner to fantasy-dump this shit on you without your consent in this way. It's a bad idea, it's a bad partner behavior, it is very jarring to have someone's uncomfortable fantasy material heaped on you without discussion. He put you in a position to feel "less than" as inappropriate leverage.
As far as processing it so you're not dealing with the constant intrusive thoughts, I would suggest you step back from normalizing this as something that should have happened in any kind of fair and equitable relationship. This is not YOUR personal failure and this isn't jealousy, this is a trauma response because your partner introduced another person into your intimate landscape without your consent or enthusiasm or interest. You're not obligated to ever be ready for a threesome, it is not a lack of sex-positivity or coolness or (uuuuuuuuugh) GGGness that that's not your thing at this point in time.
It is okay to be hurt by this because he did something hurtful. He was a shitty partner. He hurt you and likely prioritized his own spank material over your feelings. His ability to maturely navigate a relationship did not exist, so his reasons for breaking up with you, however awful they may be, are not about you.
It sucks and you got hurt and you should give yourself space to process that hurt without trying to find a way to blame yourself or "both sides" this. There will be better men in the future, who aren't like that, but you may need to be a little wary of those people before you engage too deeply. You could easily feel bad about whatever woman comes next for him, rather than framing her as somehow better than you, but rather someone consuming his abuse with more alacrity than you. Do feel free to let anybody go who has decided for whatever reason that someone else is better than you - that is a steeply objective judgement and in any case you're better off away from someone who doesn't think you're best. You deserve to be adored the most, and anyone who can't manage that should move on.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:47 PM on April 27, 2022 [14 favorites]
You feel bad about this because it was bad. It is not appropriate for a partner to fantasy-dump this shit on you without your consent in this way. It's a bad idea, it's a bad partner behavior, it is very jarring to have someone's uncomfortable fantasy material heaped on you without discussion. He put you in a position to feel "less than" as inappropriate leverage.
As far as processing it so you're not dealing with the constant intrusive thoughts, I would suggest you step back from normalizing this as something that should have happened in any kind of fair and equitable relationship. This is not YOUR personal failure and this isn't jealousy, this is a trauma response because your partner introduced another person into your intimate landscape without your consent or enthusiasm or interest. You're not obligated to ever be ready for a threesome, it is not a lack of sex-positivity or coolness or (uuuuuuuuugh) GGGness that that's not your thing at this point in time.
It is okay to be hurt by this because he did something hurtful. He was a shitty partner. He hurt you and likely prioritized his own spank material over your feelings. His ability to maturely navigate a relationship did not exist, so his reasons for breaking up with you, however awful they may be, are not about you.
It sucks and you got hurt and you should give yourself space to process that hurt without trying to find a way to blame yourself or "both sides" this. There will be better men in the future, who aren't like that, but you may need to be a little wary of those people before you engage too deeply. You could easily feel bad about whatever woman comes next for him, rather than framing her as somehow better than you, but rather someone consuming his abuse with more alacrity than you. Do feel free to let anybody go who has decided for whatever reason that someone else is better than you - that is a steeply objective judgement and in any case you're better off away from someone who doesn't think you're best. You deserve to be adored the most, and anyone who can't manage that should move on.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:47 PM on April 27, 2022 [14 favorites]
If you ever do decide to have a tiresome (not fixing that typo), definitely choose partners who do not have attributes or relationships that trigger insecurity in you!!!
I can think of no less fun way to spend an evening than watching your partner get busy with someone who makes you feel inferior (for any reason). You get to select who your partners will be - know your own insecurities (we all have them) and choose wisely.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:48 PM on April 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
I can think of no less fun way to spend an evening than watching your partner get busy with someone who makes you feel inferior (for any reason). You get to select who your partners will be - know your own insecurities (we all have them) and choose wisely.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 8:48 PM on April 27, 2022 [6 favorites]
Best answer: fears about my ex moving on to someone who is better than me,
Better than you at what? at playing the clarinet? at conforming to the bullshit aesthetic standards of patriarchal consumerism? at attracting a kinda crappily-behaving dude?
Most people aren't right for one another, and that's OK. Your worth isn't defined by the opinions of your partners, and there's nobody important who's, like, tracking your dating metrics and judging you on them.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2022 [15 favorites]
Better than you at what? at playing the clarinet? at conforming to the bullshit aesthetic standards of patriarchal consumerism? at attracting a kinda crappily-behaving dude?
Most people aren't right for one another, and that's OK. Your worth isn't defined by the opinions of your partners, and there's nobody important who's, like, tracking your dating metrics and judging you on them.
posted by Jon_Evil at 8:53 PM on April 27, 2022 [15 favorites]
On seeing Lyn Never's response, yeah. This dude pulled the slimeball move of suggesting sexual activity on your behalf but without your consent.
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:00 PM on April 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
posted by Jon_Evil at 9:00 PM on April 27, 2022 [9 favorites]
Just adding to the pile of confirmations that this was terrible behavior from this guy. That you’re having a big reaction to it is normal, but as you’re seeing unhelpful and no fun. If you can make yourself certain, perhaps through our confirmation here that this was him being a prick, not you being less-than, then googling cbt exercises against intrusive thoughts might help on the practical end. *goes off to follow own advice*
posted by Iteki at 9:08 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by Iteki at 9:08 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
during sex, he would often like to tell me which women he was fantasizing about and ask me if I found them attractive, if I ever fantasized about them
Did he ask your consent in advance to talk about these fantasies? Did he ask your consent to talk about them during sex? If he did and this was hot, or you told him it was hot, then okay. But if he just started telling you his fantasies about other women without asking for your consent, that’s really not okay.
Please don’t ever go along with a partner because you want them to like you. I want you to like you so much that you have good boundaries and don’t agree to things that make you uncomfortable.
And it was super uncool for him to pith a threesome to someone else without asking you first. That’s just not okay.
As for how to get past this: maybe you could spend some time writing all this down, try to get it out of your head. I’ve heard that creating break up and closure rituals can be useful.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:21 PM on April 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
Did he ask your consent in advance to talk about these fantasies? Did he ask your consent to talk about them during sex? If he did and this was hot, or you told him it was hot, then okay. But if he just started telling you his fantasies about other women without asking for your consent, that’s really not okay.
Please don’t ever go along with a partner because you want them to like you. I want you to like you so much that you have good boundaries and don’t agree to things that make you uncomfortable.
And it was super uncool for him to pith a threesome to someone else without asking you first. That’s just not okay.
As for how to get past this: maybe you could spend some time writing all this down, try to get it out of your head. I’ve heard that creating break up and closure rituals can be useful.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:21 PM on April 27, 2022 [5 favorites]
A few ideas:
-if you are ruminating, distract yourself. Watch a funny show or listen to invigorating music. Focus on how your body feels instead of your thoughts. Like if your tense, do some stretches or slow breathing. If you’re angry, some vigorous exercise.
-he obviously valued you very highly at some point, since you chose to date each other. It’s totally possible he values her more now, but you can’t really know that or control it. What about what you value? Is she better than you in all those things in your own eyes? That sounds really painful and it’s okay to make space to feel sad about that (and about losing someone you cared about!) and then move forward with who you are outside of comparisons to her
-you could make a plan for what you’ll do if you find out they really are hooking up, like a friend you could call or a relaxing activity. Having a plan for the worst case scenario might give you some sense of control of the situation.
posted by Gravel at 9:40 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
-if you are ruminating, distract yourself. Watch a funny show or listen to invigorating music. Focus on how your body feels instead of your thoughts. Like if your tense, do some stretches or slow breathing. If you’re angry, some vigorous exercise.
-he obviously valued you very highly at some point, since you chose to date each other. It’s totally possible he values her more now, but you can’t really know that or control it. What about what you value? Is she better than you in all those things in your own eyes? That sounds really painful and it’s okay to make space to feel sad about that (and about losing someone you cared about!) and then move forward with who you are outside of comparisons to her
-you could make a plan for what you’ll do if you find out they really are hooking up, like a friend you could call or a relaxing activity. Having a plan for the worst case scenario might give you some sense of control of the situation.
posted by Gravel at 9:40 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Time and distance is how these things fade. There are no shortcuts.
Fortunately it sounds like distance will come into play soon. In your shoes I would just hang in there, remembering that you’ve been hurt and that healing takes time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:58 PM on April 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
Fortunately it sounds like distance will come into play soon. In your shoes I would just hang in there, remembering that you’ve been hurt and that healing takes time.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:58 PM on April 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: >it’s more about the feeling “less than”.
This is really the crux of it. You're having a hard time feeling good about yourself, and given your post history, I know you're having a hard time feeling good about a lot of things right now. Low self-esteem is a great breeding ground for all sorts of intrusive thoughts. It's basically telling you that "if only I was or had xyz, then he'd still want to be with me. The fact that he's hanging out with her proves that she is and has xyz, and I don't." It's very black-and-white thinking.
Here's a good Ask Polly article about jealousy, insecurity and feeling your feelings. Ask yourself what it is that you don't like about yourself, and what you're using this jealousy to distract yourself from. Take a deep dive into all those scary, icky feelings and maybe do some journalling. And think about what you DO like about yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. Keep focusing on you, your gifts, what you enjoy. That is really the key to getting your mind off all of this. You ARE good enough. He wasn't right for you and was definitely shitty towards you, and I'm sure there were great things about him too. But he wasn't right for you. What he does now is irrelevant. So figure out what is relevant in your life (the first thing being you). This isn't about him, or her, or anyone else that you think is better than you. This is about you, learning about who you are, feeling your feelings, and accepting yourself, warts and all.
Ask Polly's words about obsession are so brilliant too: "...obsession is: wild, uncontrolled THINKING about things that are mysterious and unreal. Obsession is not about feeling, it’s about invention. And the more you obsess, the more it becomes about the act of creative overthinking, about circular thought patterns, about neuroticism, about trying desperately to control something that’s completely out of your control... it’s about filling in the gaps, trying to solve the mystery of..." [fill in the blank]. I wonder what mystery you're trying to solve, if any?
posted by foxjacket at 10:01 PM on April 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
This is really the crux of it. You're having a hard time feeling good about yourself, and given your post history, I know you're having a hard time feeling good about a lot of things right now. Low self-esteem is a great breeding ground for all sorts of intrusive thoughts. It's basically telling you that "if only I was or had xyz, then he'd still want to be with me. The fact that he's hanging out with her proves that she is and has xyz, and I don't." It's very black-and-white thinking.
Here's a good Ask Polly article about jealousy, insecurity and feeling your feelings. Ask yourself what it is that you don't like about yourself, and what you're using this jealousy to distract yourself from. Take a deep dive into all those scary, icky feelings and maybe do some journalling. And think about what you DO like about yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. Keep focusing on you, your gifts, what you enjoy. That is really the key to getting your mind off all of this. You ARE good enough. He wasn't right for you and was definitely shitty towards you, and I'm sure there were great things about him too. But he wasn't right for you. What he does now is irrelevant. So figure out what is relevant in your life (the first thing being you). This isn't about him, or her, or anyone else that you think is better than you. This is about you, learning about who you are, feeling your feelings, and accepting yourself, warts and all.
Ask Polly's words about obsession are so brilliant too: "...obsession is: wild, uncontrolled THINKING about things that are mysterious and unreal. Obsession is not about feeling, it’s about invention. And the more you obsess, the more it becomes about the act of creative overthinking, about circular thought patterns, about neuroticism, about trying desperately to control something that’s completely out of your control... it’s about filling in the gaps, trying to solve the mystery of..." [fill in the blank]. I wonder what mystery you're trying to solve, if any?
posted by foxjacket at 10:01 PM on April 27, 2022 [12 favorites]
He never pressured me to a threesome.
He just brought it up a hell of lot, in and out of bed.
Without your permission, he discussed it with one of those real-life acquaintances he'd openly fantasized about during sex.
Then he made sure you knew she had expressed an interest.
I was pretty shocked and honestly hurt - it definitely felt like I had a boundary crossed because he hadn't run it by me.
Your boundary had been crossed. (See Lyn Never's answer.)
For the record, "M" isn't any better than you.
Your ex, however, is awful, and you're well shot of him.
How do I stop imagining my ex-boyfriend moving on with a woman he once told me wanted to have a threesome with?
You find her attractive -- ask her out yourself?
(Should the topic arise, be clear that you're disinterested in a threesome involving your ex.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:14 PM on April 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
He just brought it up a hell of lot, in and out of bed.
Without your permission, he discussed it with one of those real-life acquaintances he'd openly fantasized about during sex.
Then he made sure you knew she had expressed an interest.
I was pretty shocked and honestly hurt - it definitely felt like I had a boundary crossed because he hadn't run it by me.
Your boundary had been crossed. (See Lyn Never's answer.)
For the record, "M" isn't any better than you.
Your ex, however, is awful, and you're well shot of him.
How do I stop imagining my ex-boyfriend moving on with a woman he once told me wanted to have a threesome with?
You find her attractive -- ask her out yourself?
(Should the topic arise, be clear that you're disinterested in a threesome involving your ex.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 10:14 PM on April 27, 2022 [7 favorites]
If you genuinely find this other person attractive, I’d ask her out yourself! For bonus points, never mention the boyfriend, be ridiculously happy with her and never ever have a threesome with him or think of him again. Feels like this closes the loop somehow, doesn’t it? PS your boyfriend is a colossal asshole and I can’t think of a better way of moving on.
posted by Jubey at 10:24 PM on April 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 10:24 PM on April 27, 2022 [4 favorites]
Best answer: In case this is at all helpful: sometimes when we are super invested in someone and like them a lot, what we really want is their approval and validation. If they dole it out in small doses, and also clearly withhold it at other times, then we can become almost hooked on it. The inconsistent reinforcement can have us absolutely salivating for approval. Folks who do this don't necessarily mean to be cruel or hurtful, but it can be incredibly harmful to us, as we learn to crave their positive regard.
The way you're saying you feel like you're not good enough, and she's better, and the way he let you know he was fantasizing about someone else, without your consent, during intimate times when you maybe felt vulnerable--no wonder you are obsessing. You're craving a fix that feels like it can only come from him and his attention and good regard towards you, and then this other person is becoming the representation of what it feels like you wanted and didn't get.
I have been there: desperately craving the approval of a man who would never fully give it (he couldn't, because he didn't have high enough regard for himself, because he never really got his parents' approval or full love either), and wondering about the woman he had let me know was better than me. Maybe this isn't what you are dealing with, but if it resonates: it takes time and space and distance. As much as you can remove any reminders of either of them, in person or via social media, will help. Keep as busy as you can. Prioritize sleep. Spend time with people who care about you. That's what will help.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:59 PM on April 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
The way you're saying you feel like you're not good enough, and she's better, and the way he let you know he was fantasizing about someone else, without your consent, during intimate times when you maybe felt vulnerable--no wonder you are obsessing. You're craving a fix that feels like it can only come from him and his attention and good regard towards you, and then this other person is becoming the representation of what it feels like you wanted and didn't get.
I have been there: desperately craving the approval of a man who would never fully give it (he couldn't, because he didn't have high enough regard for himself, because he never really got his parents' approval or full love either), and wondering about the woman he had let me know was better than me. Maybe this isn't what you are dealing with, but if it resonates: it takes time and space and distance. As much as you can remove any reminders of either of them, in person or via social media, will help. Keep as busy as you can. Prioritize sleep. Spend time with people who care about you. That's what will help.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:59 PM on April 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
All I can say is, get used to the idea that he is going to bang her. He may already have while you were together, for all I know. There's no reason for them not to. If they both like each other, it will happen and you can't stop it. You just have to accept it.
And also remind yourself that he's kind of a sleazeball and M is now going to have to figure out how to cope and deal with it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:05 PM on April 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
And also remind yourself that he's kind of a sleazeball and M is now going to have to figure out how to cope and deal with it.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:05 PM on April 27, 2022 [3 favorites]
Another possibility here is that he never brought up the idea of a threesome with M at all, and it was a story he cooked up to see if you would bite (and yes, it was totally a sneaky way to pressure you into it!).
Think about it: it's much easier to convince someone of a threesome once you know that the other person is also into it. And between M and you, why would he approach M first? That's a pretty high-risk ask especially if you're not committed yet. You are the critical ingredient in having this threesome; in theory it could be with any other mutually agreeable woman, it doesn't have to be M and only M. So it would make sense to make sure you were on board. But to make it easier (ahem, more pressure) for you to say yes, I think he pretended that he already approached M ans got a "Yes" from them, too.
All that to say, it's possible that one of the fundamental assumptions you have about him and his actions is false. And if it is false then it could change the narrative in your head, and lessen its power over your thoughts.
posted by tinydancer at 11:57 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
Think about it: it's much easier to convince someone of a threesome once you know that the other person is also into it. And between M and you, why would he approach M first? That's a pretty high-risk ask especially if you're not committed yet. You are the critical ingredient in having this threesome; in theory it could be with any other mutually agreeable woman, it doesn't have to be M and only M. So it would make sense to make sure you were on board. But to make it easier (ahem, more pressure) for you to say yes, I think he pretended that he already approached M ans got a "Yes" from them, too.
All that to say, it's possible that one of the fundamental assumptions you have about him and his actions is false. And if it is false then it could change the narrative in your head, and lessen its power over your thoughts.
posted by tinydancer at 11:57 PM on April 27, 2022 [2 favorites]
And between M and you, why would he approach M first?
I know plenty of men in ostensibly monogamous relationships like to flirt by talking about threesomes or about how they might open the relationship with other women.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:11 AM on April 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
I know plenty of men in ostensibly monogamous relationships like to flirt by talking about threesomes or about how they might open the relationship with other women.
posted by bluedaisy at 12:11 AM on April 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Maybe he did leave you because he wanted to be with her. Maybe they would indeed be a better match, more compatible. (Though, in all honesty, people often just replace partners for nothing but the sake of novelty). So what? In no way, shape or form would any of this mean that you are inferior. At most, she's "better" for him - certainly not better in general! You can and quite possibly soon will find someone who's better for you.
Never forget: romance is not a meritocracy. It's all luck, and chemistry, and compatibility. No one is universally compatible with everyone, so everyone has to expect things not working out occassionally.
posted by sohalt at 12:34 AM on April 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
Never forget: romance is not a meritocracy. It's all luck, and chemistry, and compatibility. No one is universally compatible with everyone, so everyone has to expect things not working out occassionally.
posted by sohalt at 12:34 AM on April 28, 2022 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Thank you for all of the incredibly helpful answers so far. It’s hitting me that his behavior really was not okay at all, even though at the time I couldn’t see that, thought I was supposed to be the cool and sexually open girlfriend who was okay with talking about anything, including our fantasies about people. I’m struggling with feeling partially at fault for him asking M. We would often discuss people we were attracted to while having sex - always at his initiation, though he always checked in to see if I was ok talking about it, and kept checking in as we kept talking. M would always be one of the first names he would mention of people that he was attracted to. I said I was attracted to her too — but we never talked explicitly about turning the fantasy into something real. I made it clear that I’d want us to talk about it and come up with a plan before we ever tried to make the fantasy real. I feel like he might’ve taken my engagement in the fantasy as implicit permission to go talk to her? Is it possible that we are both at fault here — he definitely shouldn’t have talked to her about it without my consent, but I should’ve been clearer that I wanted it to be a fantasy? Idk I’m confused, he was my first sexual partner and relationship and he had significantly more experience (and confidence) than I did, and I really did not know what I was doing in the relationship.
posted by cruel summer at 6:03 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by cruel summer at 6:03 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You're really not at fault here. Let's say you had been totally on board with talking about specific people in a fantasty context in bed and felt great about it - he still should have had a very clear conversation with you, outside of a sexual interaction, about "hey, is this just a fun sexy thing we're doing together, or a real-world thing, and if we do want to maybe make it happen, how should we go about that in a way that feels good to both of us?" If you didn't explicitly say YES GOOD ONE OF US SHOULD TALK TO HER ABOUT DOING THIS, LET'S FIGURE OUT WHAT THE BEST WAY WOULD BE, then he is the one who fucked this one up. Jumping ahead to the part where he makes a sexual approach to someone else without your very clear sign-off, in the context of the monogamous relationship you two had, was a crappy thing to do both to you and to her.
He may grow up and become a better person and partner for someone, at some point, but you are well clear of him and I think with time and distance, you will be glad that you no longer have to be the person he practices on to become a better person.
You just need to wait out that time and distance. It's hard, and there isn't a good shortcut, and I'm sorry. I heartily endorse distractions and also flat-out saying to loved ones that you're having a hard time and could really use some distractions and good times, and would they like to have a weekly hangout, or go out to dinner, or come over for a sleepover, or whatever feels good to you and is within your pandemic interaction tolerances. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself right now or even just makes some time pass, do those things! Reread a favorite book series, launch into a big cooking project, spend a day at your favorite museum, learn to knit, go dancing - anything that yanks your mind out of its bad cycles. Even if it only works for five minutes, that's five minutes of your brain NOT focusing on The Thing You Are Hyperfocused On, and those times will get longer and closer together.
posted by Stacey at 6:55 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
He may grow up and become a better person and partner for someone, at some point, but you are well clear of him and I think with time and distance, you will be glad that you no longer have to be the person he practices on to become a better person.
You just need to wait out that time and distance. It's hard, and there isn't a good shortcut, and I'm sorry. I heartily endorse distractions and also flat-out saying to loved ones that you're having a hard time and could really use some distractions and good times, and would they like to have a weekly hangout, or go out to dinner, or come over for a sleepover, or whatever feels good to you and is within your pandemic interaction tolerances. Whatever makes you feel good about yourself right now or even just makes some time pass, do those things! Reread a favorite book series, launch into a big cooking project, spend a day at your favorite museum, learn to knit, go dancing - anything that yanks your mind out of its bad cycles. Even if it only works for five minutes, that's five minutes of your brain NOT focusing on The Thing You Are Hyperfocused On, and those times will get longer and closer together.
posted by Stacey at 6:55 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
... I was supposed to be the cool and sexually open girlfriend who was okay with talking about anything, including our fantasies about people.
Here's the thing: you never have to be this person. Not if you don't want to. I was going to make a joke about Dan Savage having a lot to answer for, but honestly this has been a problem since the sexual revolution started. It doesn't make you less interesting or vivacious to not want certain things. You're not an experience; you're a person.
Maybe a specific dude wants this kind of girlfriend. He's welcome to go and find her -- in the middle of the night if he won't shut up about it. But as a single woman, you will feel so much better without some emotional boat anchor in your life.
I know, too, that it's hard to believe this. I know that it has to feel big and huge and hurt unbelievably right now. There's no way out but through, and all the bromides in the world won't help. But if it helps to know: he was being an asshole, and in this internet's opinion, you have won the breakup. Take a victory lap.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:22 AM on April 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
Here's the thing: you never have to be this person. Not if you don't want to. I was going to make a joke about Dan Savage having a lot to answer for, but honestly this has been a problem since the sexual revolution started. It doesn't make you less interesting or vivacious to not want certain things. You're not an experience; you're a person.
Maybe a specific dude wants this kind of girlfriend. He's welcome to go and find her -- in the middle of the night if he won't shut up about it. But as a single woman, you will feel so much better without some emotional boat anchor in your life.
I know, too, that it's hard to believe this. I know that it has to feel big and huge and hurt unbelievably right now. There's no way out but through, and all the bromides in the world won't help. But if it helps to know: he was being an asshole, and in this internet's opinion, you have won the breakup. Take a victory lap.
posted by Countess Elena at 7:22 AM on April 28, 2022 [5 favorites]
He was a shitty boyfriend and you're well rid of him! I know it doesn't help right now. I too had a shitty college boyfriend and because I'd never experienced a real breakup before, it practically felt like I was processing a death when it happened. I still remember how terrible it felt. You'll be super sad for a while and the only way out of it is to just let yourself feel your feelings and focus on what's next for you after college. I basically guarantee that eventually this will turn into a "lol what was I thinking?" kind of memory for you.
posted by cakelite at 7:57 AM on April 28, 2022
posted by cakelite at 7:57 AM on April 28, 2022
Best answer: In my early 20s, when I felt bad/uncomfortable during or after a relationship, I was very quick to assume that the bad feeling stemmed from some flaw or weakness in me -- I wasn't good enough, I messed up, whatever. I wonder if you have a lot of practice at turning against yourself, and whether this jealousy is part of that. He behaved kind of thoughtlessly, and perhaps instead of feeling that as anger against him, you're turning it into a story about your own inadequacy.
posted by attentionplease at 8:22 AM on April 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
posted by attentionplease at 8:22 AM on April 28, 2022 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I haven’t read all the answers but I think reframing the relationship you now have with your ex might be helpful. Like, the two of you were together, you were intimate. You learned some things about yourself. You learned what makes you feel safe/unsafe. You learned something about your boundaries and limits. As a person, he made an impact on your life but his time in your life is over. Borrowing from Marie Kondo, can you mentally thank him for his service and then throw him out? Thank you for being in my life, but it is time to go…. Kondo believes that objects can hold meaning in our lives outsized to their current purpose. A sweater that looked great and made you feel great for while no longer does so. Rather than keeping it around, you can give it away, donate it or dispose of it. Severing that tie can feel painful, maybe even too painful to let go. But if you give it thanks for what it did for you, it can feel easier to move on. It’s worth a shot.
posted by amanda at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
posted by amanda at 10:03 AM on April 28, 2022 [1 favorite]
Why was he with you in the first place instead of M? They knew each other before. You can't be less than M or he wouldn't have chosen you in the first place. He and M are still friends, maybe even bumping uglies friends. But maybe it is something of a mismatch between you and him. Even porn stars can be married with kids and have a love of their life. Maybe he just knew that you were interested, maybe his old friend M was interested. Maybe he was just trying to hook the two or three of you up.
Oh good lord, university age stories don't get me started. I totally had my BFF wife-not-wife wanting to have a three-way with my sweetheart girlfriend.
Sometimes people just don't work out for some reason. It's not better or worse. It's just not that. But they still have friends. He's probably not that evil if his not-girlfriend is still friend. He still for a while chose you over her.
I do really like the hookup with M directly thing. It's not you, try the threesome, it's fun.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:54 AM on April 28, 2022
Oh good lord, university age stories don't get me started. I totally had my BFF wife-not-wife wanting to have a three-way with my sweetheart girlfriend.
Sometimes people just don't work out for some reason. It's not better or worse. It's just not that. But they still have friends. He's probably not that evil if his not-girlfriend is still friend. He still for a while chose you over her.
I do really like the hookup with M directly thing. It's not you, try the threesome, it's fun.
posted by zengargoyle at 10:54 AM on April 28, 2022
Best answer: I want to encourage you - as you process this and move forward - to get rid of your scarcity mindset about relationships.
There is some unknown number of people in the vicinity of your general life map who are going to have a personality, values, lifestyle, goals etc that mesh with yours well enough for the two of you to create a good relationship together. It's not just one person, and it's not some subset of people who will simply deign to allow you to be in their presence if you work hard enough to deserve it.
Someone moving on from a relationship with you is not proof that your value is low, it's just proof that the two of you were not in optimal alignment for a quality long-term relationship and THAT IS ACTUALLY NORMAL. Most people on this planet are not a good match for you or you for them, and that's great because there's a bunch of people in the world with whom a romantic relationship would be inappropriate because they are coworkers or relatives or already with someone else or they are 10 or 100 years old or they are assholes, etc.
Stop assuming the problem is you. Your ex-boyfriend did something so basic there's a cliché about it. And he prioritized realizing his spank material over the confidentiality and integrity of your relationship; he tried to negotiate a sexual relationship between you and a third party without your consent. It doesn't indicate that he had great priorities for the relationship overall. This doesn't happen because you weren't good enough, that's a choice that a grown man made when many other choices were available.
You are allowed to protest treatment you don't like or think is a bad idea or is starting a bad trend. You are allowed to not do things that make you uncomfortable, and that includes being frequently shoehorned into sex talk that you would maybe prefer not be the primary topic. Do not take responsibility for other people's behavior, because that's how you handwave away abuse and lower-stakes poor treatment. All human beings deserve good treatment from a partner, there's no permitting system that allows some mistreatment because you decided you deserve it.
Get you to a place where you can believe that about yourself before you start dating again. Developing a rock-solid relationship with yourself - which doesn't mean you don't have anything left to work on, we all do, but it does mean that you have become familiar with the ways one does that work and you have at least reached a level of self-esteem that you would defend yourself from harm in the same way you would a good friend - puts you in a position to meet someone who also has that relationship with themself, and that's an amazing foundation for a potential relationship.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:33 AM on April 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
There is some unknown number of people in the vicinity of your general life map who are going to have a personality, values, lifestyle, goals etc that mesh with yours well enough for the two of you to create a good relationship together. It's not just one person, and it's not some subset of people who will simply deign to allow you to be in their presence if you work hard enough to deserve it.
Someone moving on from a relationship with you is not proof that your value is low, it's just proof that the two of you were not in optimal alignment for a quality long-term relationship and THAT IS ACTUALLY NORMAL. Most people on this planet are not a good match for you or you for them, and that's great because there's a bunch of people in the world with whom a romantic relationship would be inappropriate because they are coworkers or relatives or already with someone else or they are 10 or 100 years old or they are assholes, etc.
Stop assuming the problem is you. Your ex-boyfriend did something so basic there's a cliché about it. And he prioritized realizing his spank material over the confidentiality and integrity of your relationship; he tried to negotiate a sexual relationship between you and a third party without your consent. It doesn't indicate that he had great priorities for the relationship overall. This doesn't happen because you weren't good enough, that's a choice that a grown man made when many other choices were available.
You are allowed to protest treatment you don't like or think is a bad idea or is starting a bad trend. You are allowed to not do things that make you uncomfortable, and that includes being frequently shoehorned into sex talk that you would maybe prefer not be the primary topic. Do not take responsibility for other people's behavior, because that's how you handwave away abuse and lower-stakes poor treatment. All human beings deserve good treatment from a partner, there's no permitting system that allows some mistreatment because you decided you deserve it.
Get you to a place where you can believe that about yourself before you start dating again. Developing a rock-solid relationship with yourself - which doesn't mean you don't have anything left to work on, we all do, but it does mean that you have become familiar with the ways one does that work and you have at least reached a level of self-esteem that you would defend yourself from harm in the same way you would a good friend - puts you in a position to meet someone who also has that relationship with themself, and that's an amazing foundation for a potential relationship.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:33 AM on April 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I was supposed to be the cool and sexually open girlfriend who was okay with talking about anything, including our fantasies about people
The Dan Savage thing about being GGG doesn't mean you have to be open to everything, and definitely not open to everything just because your partner wants it. You can also take baby steps with any of this: maybe discussing a celebrity you find attractive in a non-sexual moment would be an easier starting point. Some folks would be totally fine with the kinds of conversations you all had. I would find it very difficult if my partner was discussing his attraction to another woman, especially one we knew, while we were having sex. This would be emotionally difficult for me and a huge turn off, really. When I'm intimate with my partner, I want to feel like they are wildly attracted to and focused on me. I'm not saying you should want this, or everyone should. You got tossed into the deep end in your first sexual relationship. No wonder you are flailing a bit.
I totally get why you are upset. He introduced his fantasies about someone else during a time when you were physically and I'm guessing emotionally vulnerable. That's a lot! And no wonder you're left feeling like you don't measure up.
I'm not saying that any of this is your fault! You are still learning about yourself and sex and relationships. It's not your job to be cool and accepting with things that aren't making you happy. You know what's great in a sex partner? Someone who knows her limits and boundaries. That doesn't mean you should never explore past them, but it can also be done with a lot of care and support and tenderness with a partner you trust.
I feel like you were so worried about whether he liked you that he couldn't quite see that there were some things that weren't great about him as a partner for you. I'm sorry you didn't feel adored and treasured with your first ex because I think that's maybe what you wanted. And it's totally okay to want that.
Do you listen to podcasts at all? Swoon is a great podcast with two therapists who talk about relationships and love and sex. I've learned so much from it. If you're into podcasts, I'd encourage you to look it up and scroll through and see if any of the topics might feel meaningful right now, and listen to them to get some audio support.
Break ups are so so hard. Hang in there.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:04 PM on April 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
The Dan Savage thing about being GGG doesn't mean you have to be open to everything, and definitely not open to everything just because your partner wants it. You can also take baby steps with any of this: maybe discussing a celebrity you find attractive in a non-sexual moment would be an easier starting point. Some folks would be totally fine with the kinds of conversations you all had. I would find it very difficult if my partner was discussing his attraction to another woman, especially one we knew, while we were having sex. This would be emotionally difficult for me and a huge turn off, really. When I'm intimate with my partner, I want to feel like they are wildly attracted to and focused on me. I'm not saying you should want this, or everyone should. You got tossed into the deep end in your first sexual relationship. No wonder you are flailing a bit.
I totally get why you are upset. He introduced his fantasies about someone else during a time when you were physically and I'm guessing emotionally vulnerable. That's a lot! And no wonder you're left feeling like you don't measure up.
I'm not saying that any of this is your fault! You are still learning about yourself and sex and relationships. It's not your job to be cool and accepting with things that aren't making you happy. You know what's great in a sex partner? Someone who knows her limits and boundaries. That doesn't mean you should never explore past them, but it can also be done with a lot of care and support and tenderness with a partner you trust.
I feel like you were so worried about whether he liked you that he couldn't quite see that there were some things that weren't great about him as a partner for you. I'm sorry you didn't feel adored and treasured with your first ex because I think that's maybe what you wanted. And it's totally okay to want that.
Do you listen to podcasts at all? Swoon is a great podcast with two therapists who talk about relationships and love and sex. I've learned so much from it. If you're into podcasts, I'd encourage you to look it up and scroll through and see if any of the topics might feel meaningful right now, and listen to them to get some audio support.
Break ups are so so hard. Hang in there.
posted by bluedaisy at 9:04 PM on April 28, 2022 [3 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I hope my telling you how awful he is helps you move on and hopefully get away from the disturbing imagery.
posted by pando11 at 7:30 PM on April 27, 2022 [12 favorites]