How big does a lifestyle difference have to be to make you both unhappy?
August 4, 2020 2:31 AM Subscribe
My (M28) relationship with my girlfriend (F30) has been a difficult one, particularly over the last year (I've made previous posts on here). Lots of this has been related to struggling to properly deal with very different lifestyles. How big does a lifestyle difference have to be before it just becomes unworkable?
Me (M28) and my girlfriend (F30) have had a hell of a year (our 5th one together). For several years (probably most of the relationship) we'd been in a dysfunctional dynamic that had made us both unhappy. Then, 1 year ago, I developed strong feelings for someone else and had a short lived emotional affair. I also, very unwisely, confided lots of my relationship anguish with my mother which my gf found out about. As a result, the past year has been absolute hell for the both of us, with me unsure whether to stay or leave, and my girlfriend acting more and more irrationally and hurtful as a result of the insecurity she was feeling (and which I wasn't enough to help). Safe to say there's been lots of mistakes on both sides. Despite everything that's happened, we're still together and things have improved.
However, one question that keeps playing on my mind is whether our difference in lifestyle just means we are not compatible. I am a very active, outdoorsy person who likes to experience lots of new things and do lots of exercise. My girlfriend is much more of a 'homebody' with a passion for gaming, coding and other such activities. The struggle over how to deal with this difference contributed greatly to our unhappiness over the years, with me feeling a great sense of loss for not being able to experience things with my partner, and my gf feeling pressured to do things she didn't really want to do. I think my feelings of loss may have a lot to do with my love language primarily being spending quality time with someone. We've tried to bridge the difference and had some success (we've both been enjoying doing a bit of gardening recently) but it is a struggle. Mostly I've had to accept that I'll have to get used to doing things alone or finding other friends to do things with (we've both become quite isolated due to lots of moving). I've tried to take an interest in her hobbies, and whilst I'm delighted that she has things she enjoys doing, it's really a painful struggle to try and make myself enjoy them with her.
My question is: at what point do you decide that the difference in lifestyle between you is just too big for you to be happy together in the long-run?
Me (M28) and my girlfriend (F30) have had a hell of a year (our 5th one together). For several years (probably most of the relationship) we'd been in a dysfunctional dynamic that had made us both unhappy. Then, 1 year ago, I developed strong feelings for someone else and had a short lived emotional affair. I also, very unwisely, confided lots of my relationship anguish with my mother which my gf found out about. As a result, the past year has been absolute hell for the both of us, with me unsure whether to stay or leave, and my girlfriend acting more and more irrationally and hurtful as a result of the insecurity she was feeling (and which I wasn't enough to help). Safe to say there's been lots of mistakes on both sides. Despite everything that's happened, we're still together and things have improved.
However, one question that keeps playing on my mind is whether our difference in lifestyle just means we are not compatible. I am a very active, outdoorsy person who likes to experience lots of new things and do lots of exercise. My girlfriend is much more of a 'homebody' with a passion for gaming, coding and other such activities. The struggle over how to deal with this difference contributed greatly to our unhappiness over the years, with me feeling a great sense of loss for not being able to experience things with my partner, and my gf feeling pressured to do things she didn't really want to do. I think my feelings of loss may have a lot to do with my love language primarily being spending quality time with someone. We've tried to bridge the difference and had some success (we've both been enjoying doing a bit of gardening recently) but it is a struggle. Mostly I've had to accept that I'll have to get used to doing things alone or finding other friends to do things with (we've both become quite isolated due to lots of moving). I've tried to take an interest in her hobbies, and whilst I'm delighted that she has things she enjoys doing, it's really a painful struggle to try and make myself enjoy them with her.
My question is: at what point do you decide that the difference in lifestyle between you is just too big for you to be happy together in the long-run?
I don't think you can be happy in a relationship where you've spent the majority of time in that relationship thinking about ending the relationship. Just end it already.
posted by Polychrome at 3:08 AM on August 4, 2020 [28 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 3:08 AM on August 4, 2020 [28 favorites]
In the three questions you have asked about the relationship over the past year, I don't think you've said a single positive thing about her. The cheating, and the talking shit to your mom seem like hurtful, passive aggressive attempts at getting her to break up with you. At this point, you really need to grow, and break up with her.
posted by kellyblah at 3:21 AM on August 4, 2020 [25 favorites]
posted by kellyblah at 3:21 AM on August 4, 2020 [25 favorites]
The point-blank answer to your title question is closer to "how long is a piece of string?" - big enough that it's making the two real people in the relationship (as opposed to some hypothetical other people in some other relationship) unhappy. Depending on the individuals involved and the relationship in question, the amount of difference that adds up to unhappiness can be tiny (perceived size doesn't matter if the unhappiness is real), whereas another relationship with a different set of people can have big differences in lifestyle that don't add up to enough to make the people in the relationship unhappy. It's relative.
When we got together, my partner was more active and outdoorsy than me. In the seven years we've been together, I've slowly drifted closer to his preferred level of outdoorsiness and activity. Not 100% - he still goes camping a few times a year with friends who have more tolerance for camping and mountain hiking than I do - but I am much less sedentary and much more into being outdoors and doing outdoor activities now than I was in 2013.
This worked for us because I got into it, basically. It helps that we also have a shared love of TV/gaming time and quietly doing our own thing in the house together. He still has friends to do the outdoorsy things I'm never going to be up for with. I still have friends who I lean on for things my partner is never going to be into. But there's enough overlap on the stuff we do like/have learned to like that we have plenty of happy middle ground time doing stuff we both enjoy together.
I don't think you can force it if it isn't there, though. I believe in letting people show you who they are, and it sounds like the person your girlfriend fundamentally is isn't someone you're going to be happy with in the longer-term AND you're also not interested in bridging the gap between your interests and hers. You sound like two people with different spheres. Some people can be happy in that kind of relationship, but it also sounds like you've tried hard to get to that point but there's still a fundamental level of discomfort in your lack of shared activities/time together.
If your relationship isn't making you happy, that's as good a reason as any to end it. You don't need to wait for internet strangers' pronouncements on how happy or unhappy two abstract people ought to be with some significant differences in interests and how they like to spend their time if you, a real person, are already unhappy with the way this works in your own relationship.
posted by terretu at 3:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
When we got together, my partner was more active and outdoorsy than me. In the seven years we've been together, I've slowly drifted closer to his preferred level of outdoorsiness and activity. Not 100% - he still goes camping a few times a year with friends who have more tolerance for camping and mountain hiking than I do - but I am much less sedentary and much more into being outdoors and doing outdoor activities now than I was in 2013.
This worked for us because I got into it, basically. It helps that we also have a shared love of TV/gaming time and quietly doing our own thing in the house together. He still has friends to do the outdoorsy things I'm never going to be up for with. I still have friends who I lean on for things my partner is never going to be into. But there's enough overlap on the stuff we do like/have learned to like that we have plenty of happy middle ground time doing stuff we both enjoy together.
I don't think you can force it if it isn't there, though. I believe in letting people show you who they are, and it sounds like the person your girlfriend fundamentally is isn't someone you're going to be happy with in the longer-term AND you're also not interested in bridging the gap between your interests and hers. You sound like two people with different spheres. Some people can be happy in that kind of relationship, but it also sounds like you've tried hard to get to that point but there's still a fundamental level of discomfort in your lack of shared activities/time together.
If your relationship isn't making you happy, that's as good a reason as any to end it. You don't need to wait for internet strangers' pronouncements on how happy or unhappy two abstract people ought to be with some significant differences in interests and how they like to spend their time if you, a real person, are already unhappy with the way this works in your own relationship.
posted by terretu at 3:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
This sounds a lot like me and my ex - we spent years (and lots of money on counselling) trying to stay together even though we were both miserable. Lifestyle differences was just one of our issues, and we never found a way to resolve it because we were so codependent. We couldn't imagine finding ways to enjoy our personal hobbies without one another. Now, my current partner has a bunch of interests I don't share but it doesn't matter because we are complete people without each other, who enjoy having space from one another at times.
Breaking up with my ex was one of the best decisions in my life. I am so much happier, so much more whole. We still talk occasionally and I can see how much happier he is too. He was not a bad person, neither was I, but we brought out the worst in each other. rd45 has it - it shouldn't be this difficult.
posted by guessthis at 3:33 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
Breaking up with my ex was one of the best decisions in my life. I am so much happier, so much more whole. We still talk occasionally and I can see how much happier he is too. He was not a bad person, neither was I, but we brought out the worst in each other. rd45 has it - it shouldn't be this difficult.
posted by guessthis at 3:33 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
You’re literally saying that your different lifestyles are making you both unhappy and then asking how big a lifestyle difference needs to be to make you unhappy. That’s not the real question - what you want to know is if your feelings are valid and if this is a good enough reason to break up. Of course they are and of course this is. Why drag this out? Give yourself both a chance to experience something better than this.
Love should never be this hard. Sometimes breaking up is the ultimate act of love, both to yourself and your partner.
Stop ruminating on questions you already know the answer to and follow your heart already.
posted by Amy93 at 3:50 AM on August 4, 2020 [16 favorites]
Love should never be this hard. Sometimes breaking up is the ultimate act of love, both to yourself and your partner.
Stop ruminating on questions you already know the answer to and follow your heart already.
posted by Amy93 at 3:50 AM on August 4, 2020 [16 favorites]
You can be very different in terms of interests and that's just fine. Most of the things I'm interested in: fantasy novels, photography, dungeons and dragons, scuba - my wife doesn't give a damn about. In fact, one of our biggest shared interests is running and we prefer to do that solo!
But we love each other, we enjoy sharing a life together. The details don't matter so much if the big picture is right. And honestly, the big picture here does not sound good.
posted by smoke at 4:02 AM on August 4, 2020 [13 favorites]
But we love each other, we enjoy sharing a life together. The details don't matter so much if the big picture is right. And honestly, the big picture here does not sound good.
posted by smoke at 4:02 AM on August 4, 2020 [13 favorites]
“ How big does a lifestyle difference have to be before it just becomes unworkable?”
Well, I’d’ve said (and did) when you posted your second question about breaking up. This is your third. I think you need professional help to understand why you are still in this bad relationship.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:47 AM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
Well, I’d’ve said (and did) when you posted your second question about breaking up. This is your third. I think you need professional help to understand why you are still in this bad relationship.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:47 AM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
There is no one-size-fits-all answer to your question.
If something makes you miserable it makes you miserable. That’s how you’re feeling and you need to honor that.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:06 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
If something makes you miserable it makes you miserable. That’s how you’re feeling and you need to honor that.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:06 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
How big does a lifestyle difference have to be to make you both unhappy?
Apparently exactly the size difference in your relationship because you are both unhappy. How much longer do you want to be unhappy yourself? If you’re going to be unhappy either way, because breaking up is hard, you should still break up. Because there is a happier future waiting for you and your partner on the other side of the break up. You will go your separate ways and you will have better lives as a result. Not immediately probably but eventually. There is no happier future in store if you stay in your current relationship.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:15 AM on August 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
Apparently exactly the size difference in your relationship because you are both unhappy. How much longer do you want to be unhappy yourself? If you’re going to be unhappy either way, because breaking up is hard, you should still break up. Because there is a happier future waiting for you and your partner on the other side of the break up. You will go your separate ways and you will have better lives as a result. Not immediately probably but eventually. There is no happier future in store if you stay in your current relationship.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:15 AM on August 4, 2020 [4 favorites]
The question you've asked is not answerable as posed, exactly. Some people can be happy with very different lifestyles from their partners - they may thrive on separate time and going off and having separate adventures and then coming back to share them. Or on just living parallel, friendly lives that don't intersect much. It would make other people miserable; they want to have the bulk of their experiences be shared with their partner. Neither way is wrong, they're just different ways of being happy in a relationship. But you do need to find someone whose way of being happy meshes well with yours.
You don't seem to have that here. You're not having different lifestyles but coming back together to share and enjoy what you've experienced, or just enjoying having separate experiences. You're having different lifestyles and wishing it were different. You're being unfaithful. You're circling over and over around the question of why you're still in it. You don't have anything good to say about her or the relationship, just about the general concept of not being alone. That's not a good reason to stay with someone in an unstable, unhappy relationship.
You should break up. It will suck but I think it will still suck less than the situation you're in now, for both of you, and Future You will be glad that you did it.
posted by Stacey at 5:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
You don't seem to have that here. You're not having different lifestyles but coming back together to share and enjoy what you've experienced, or just enjoying having separate experiences. You're having different lifestyles and wishing it were different. You're being unfaithful. You're circling over and over around the question of why you're still in it. You don't have anything good to say about her or the relationship, just about the general concept of not being alone. That's not a good reason to stay with someone in an unstable, unhappy relationship.
You should break up. It will suck but I think it will still suck less than the situation you're in now, for both of you, and Future You will be glad that you did it.
posted by Stacey at 5:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
Oh lord I've been there. I'm echoing the others here...although relationships are hard and take work, they shouldn't be miserable for years. You will be sad, and it will suck, but unless there's a LOT missing from your question, break up. It will only get harder.
posted by nosila at 5:42 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by nosila at 5:42 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
There's something going on inside of YOU (well both of you, but you only control you), that's keeping you from exiting the relationship. Maybe something related to 'codependence' or 'enmeshment.' Something inside of you believes the relationship should be this way. Great place for seeking a therapist or other professional guidance.
posted by jander03 at 6:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by jander03 at 6:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
definitely the point at which your differences are so big that a casual reader of this question recognizes you as "that guy that desperately wants to break up with his gf and keeps posting about it."
I'm not saying that to be cruel. I'm saying that because maybe it'll help you snap out of it, and realize what you're describing isn't workable.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [24 favorites]
I'm not saying that to be cruel. I'm saying that because maybe it'll help you snap out of it, and realize what you're describing isn't workable.
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [24 favorites]
If your relationship isn't a hell yes, then it's a hell no. Break up.
posted by poppunkcat at 6:06 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by poppunkcat at 6:06 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
This relationship is not inevitable. You are unhappy and that's enough. Break up.
posted by phunniemee at 7:02 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 7:02 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
Depending where you are on the globe, the point may be moot. The first two times you asked this question were in November and December, when you could safely have stopped cohabitating and shifted one household to a new location. Now it's probably not safe to do that. You can still decouple in all but the locational sense, though. If you do finally manage to do that, after the shock of it wears off you will both probably feel much, much better.
posted by Don Pepino at 7:20 AM on August 4, 2020
posted by Don Pepino at 7:20 AM on August 4, 2020
I'm not sure that lifestyle difference is the problem, exactly, but it definitely does not sound like this relationship is a good fit.
posted by ferret branca at 7:24 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ferret branca at 7:24 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
How big does a lifestyle difference have to be to make you both unhappy?
Any size of lifestyle difference can make you both unhappy. There is no objective standard.
at what point do you decide that the difference in lifestyle between you is just too big for you to be happy together in the long-run?
When you are unhappy in the present, and neither of you want to make the changes needed for both of you to be happy in the future, or you think that it's not possible to make changes and be happy in the future.
Your long-term partner should, in some sense, fit into or be part of the life you want to have for yourself in a way that you are happy with. Some people can want many different kinds of lives for themselves or can be happy with a wide range of situations, others are less flexible. Neither is right or wrong, just different.
Nothing you have said makes me think that you should continue in this relationship.
posted by plonkee at 8:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Any size of lifestyle difference can make you both unhappy. There is no objective standard.
at what point do you decide that the difference in lifestyle between you is just too big for you to be happy together in the long-run?
When you are unhappy in the present, and neither of you want to make the changes needed for both of you to be happy in the future, or you think that it's not possible to make changes and be happy in the future.
Your long-term partner should, in some sense, fit into or be part of the life you want to have for yourself in a way that you are happy with. Some people can want many different kinds of lives for themselves or can be happy with a wide range of situations, others are less flexible. Neither is right or wrong, just different.
Nothing you have said makes me think that you should continue in this relationship.
posted by plonkee at 8:04 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
You’ve been contemplating a breakup for nearly a year. You believe that your girlfriend behaves irrationally (even though she has valid reasons to feel insecure in light of your actions). This isn’t about her anymore. Why are *you* having trouble letting go? You know that you’re unhappy in the relationship, but your fear (of being alone? of seeing her happy with another partner?) is making it tough for you to move forward. The answer to your real question is: yes, it’s time to break up with your girlfriend.
posted by WaspEnterprises at 8:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by WaspEnterprises at 8:23 AM on August 4, 2020 [9 favorites]
"For several years (probably most of the relationship) we'd been in a dysfunctional dynamic that had made us both unhappy....the past year has been absolute hell for the both of us..."
WWWHHHHYYYY are you staying in a relationship that has been so painful for years? The sooner you break up, the sooner you can move on and get more happiness in your life. Relationships are not meant to be painful, difficult, and something to bear through. You should want to be with the person you are in a relationship. There is no honor in staying in an unhealthy relationship.
At the end of the day, if there are two doors, and your girlfriend if behind one of them, do you choose to go through that door, or the other door?
posted by hydra77 at 8:56 AM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
WWWHHHHYYYY are you staying in a relationship that has been so painful for years? The sooner you break up, the sooner you can move on and get more happiness in your life. Relationships are not meant to be painful, difficult, and something to bear through. You should want to be with the person you are in a relationship. There is no honor in staying in an unhealthy relationship.
At the end of the day, if there are two doors, and your girlfriend if behind one of them, do you choose to go through that door, or the other door?
posted by hydra77 at 8:56 AM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
And to answer the question you asked: I think that your gap of interests is quite wide and not sustainable in the long-term. I like to be with my partner, and I am grateful that we have similar needs (not the same, but similar) for indoor vs outdoor time and travel vs staying at home.
posted by hydra77 at 8:58 AM on August 4, 2020
posted by hydra77 at 8:58 AM on August 4, 2020
Every second you spend in this relationship being miserable is a precious second you could be spending in a relationship with someone that fills you up with so much love and happiness. The same for her. Think of breaking up as a favour to your future selves to help you both find that special someone that will make your heart sing.
Hopefully picturing that future will help you make that decision sooner rather than later. However, realize that just because it sucks and it's painful to break up doesn't mean that it's not the absolutely right thing to do.
posted by VyanSelei at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
Hopefully picturing that future will help you make that decision sooner rather than later. However, realize that just because it sucks and it's painful to break up doesn't mean that it's not the absolutely right thing to do.
posted by VyanSelei at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Perhaps I came across a bit too negative in my question. Despite my previous two posts, it feels as if we've made a lot of progress together and we're both feeling happier than we were 6 months ago. However, I still have doubts about this lifestyle issue and I can't really tell if I am just accepting something that in reality isn't making me happy. On the other hand, it feels so trivial to leave a relationship just because we don't have enough interests in common and I'd hate to leave and end up regretting my decision. We share similar politics and values, both are vegetarian and laugh a lot together, so in some ways it feels like we share a lot. It's just that our lifestyles are different enough that we don't really end up doing much together. In some ways just letting go worrying about doing things with my girlfriend as made me feel better.
posted by sofastyle at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2020
posted by sofastyle at 9:29 AM on August 4, 2020
Why do you want to continue the relationship? Why does your partner want to continue the relationship?--maybe asking these questions will lead you to the result you are searching for.
It seems you both are telling each other that you want to stay together, but you can't figure out why you should. Ending the relationship or continuing it are not your only options. Define yourself first, and let your partner to the same. For example, you two may be better off as friends than as romantic partners. How about a trial separation?
Live apart for a while. Discover whether you are better off without the relationship as it now exists. You and your partner may not now, or ever, be on the same page. Nobody has to be "the bad guy," but trying to jam yourselves into a situation neither of you really want can make each of you the bad guy in each other's eyes.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 9:34 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
It seems you both are telling each other that you want to stay together, but you can't figure out why you should. Ending the relationship or continuing it are not your only options. Define yourself first, and let your partner to the same. For example, you two may be better off as friends than as romantic partners. How about a trial separation?
Live apart for a while. Discover whether you are better off without the relationship as it now exists. You and your partner may not now, or ever, be on the same page. Nobody has to be "the bad guy," but trying to jam yourselves into a situation neither of you really want can make each of you the bad guy in each other's eyes.
Good luck.
posted by mule98J at 9:34 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
You can be a grownup and break up with someone you don't seem to like and whose hobbies you find uninteresting (and vice versa) so you can both move on and pursue more fulfilling relationships elsewhere, or you can be a coward and continue alienating her through words and actions and wait for her to break up with you. Pick one.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:53 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:53 AM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
Well - more real talk. My husband and I have miles of lifestyle differences, weirdly enough almost alternating at times...when we married, he did way more active things, then over time I got more active and he engaged with videos games in a way I thought was unhealthy, then we went through a period where I was pregnant/breastfeeding/sick/tired and he was active, and then we were active together and now we are...I don't know, locked up together in a pandemic and glad it's with each other.
But here's the thing.
With the exception of the year of video gaming, which was grief-related as we lost a child, it never occurred to me that we were incompatible. Because we've always come together at dinner or bedtime or morning coffee on the porch and shared what we are doing with each other and taken joy in each other's joy.
You and your girlfriend aren't doing that. And that's okay. I have to tell you, most of my friends don't 'get' my relationship with my husband because we're fairly off the scale of the independent side of interdependent...he does 10-day silent (SILENT) meditation retreats, I have three regularly-meeting groups of friends and travel with my other significant other once a year where we get up at like 7 am and go all day to see new things, TALKING OUR HEADS OFF the whole time.
It totally can be done but...the reason most people don't get our relationship is that it doesn't work for a lot of people. But it works for us. And it works for us because we know it works.
And it doesn't work for you, sounds like.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:00 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
But here's the thing.
With the exception of the year of video gaming, which was grief-related as we lost a child, it never occurred to me that we were incompatible. Because we've always come together at dinner or bedtime or morning coffee on the porch and shared what we are doing with each other and taken joy in each other's joy.
You and your girlfriend aren't doing that. And that's okay. I have to tell you, most of my friends don't 'get' my relationship with my husband because we're fairly off the scale of the independent side of interdependent...he does 10-day silent (SILENT) meditation retreats, I have three regularly-meeting groups of friends and travel with my other significant other once a year where we get up at like 7 am and go all day to see new things, TALKING OUR HEADS OFF the whole time.
It totally can be done but...the reason most people don't get our relationship is that it doesn't work for a lot of people. But it works for us. And it works for us because we know it works.
And it doesn't work for you, sounds like.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:00 AM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
There is only one other person in the universe who can answer this question with you. What would happen if you asked your partner what they thought and shared your doubts? Are you hesitant to do that because part of you knows that would be the end of your relationship? If so, friend, with kindness in my heart, I’m here to tell you your relationship is over.
I was with someone for years who never actually broke up with me but instead just stopped saying “I love you” and waited for me to notice. When I did notice, I still had to be the one to end things. It messed me up for a long time. I would have been in such a better place if my partner had come to me and said, I’m having doubts. As it was, I felt tricked and like I was not being treated as another adult with decision making power in the relationship. You talk about being afraid of regretting your decision. But this isn’t your decision to make on your own. Your partner deserves more respect from you. They deserve the respect of you telling them the truth about how you feel and the right to make their own decision.
I also want to tell you: when it’s right, empathy is easy. You think as much or more about your partners feelings, their happiness, their desires, as you do your own. Is your partner happy? Do you know?
posted by CMcG at 10:59 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was with someone for years who never actually broke up with me but instead just stopped saying “I love you” and waited for me to notice. When I did notice, I still had to be the one to end things. It messed me up for a long time. I would have been in such a better place if my partner had come to me and said, I’m having doubts. As it was, I felt tricked and like I was not being treated as another adult with decision making power in the relationship. You talk about being afraid of regretting your decision. But this isn’t your decision to make on your own. Your partner deserves more respect from you. They deserve the respect of you telling them the truth about how you feel and the right to make their own decision.
I also want to tell you: when it’s right, empathy is easy. You think as much or more about your partners feelings, their happiness, their desires, as you do your own. Is your partner happy? Do you know?
posted by CMcG at 10:59 AM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm a het woman and met my husband in college. I'm physically timid and like to stay home curled up with a book and a lot of pillows. My husband was a lot more sporty and outdoorsy. I think I was a drag on his active pursuits over the years and now that we are both over sixty and quite fat, I feel guilty that I ever got in the way of him being more active. Now fortunately, our culture does not require "hiking monogamy" or "softball monogamy" so it is possible for partners with different activity levels to do things with other people. (In "normal" times when people get to go out.) I encourage you to figure out what you would ideally like to be doing, and how often. And then work up a plan where you get at least 75% of what you want. 80 is better. Aim high. But be creative about how you meet the needs. (I am *not* suggesting that you make her go up and down mountains with you.)
In pre-cell phone days, hiking was a lot more interesting for me if I took a camera with me. We have also had compromise times where we did laps in a park and some of the time I sat down on a bench while he kept walking. He does different classes and sports groups and workouts without me fairly frequently and we spent a big sum on workout equipment for home during the pandemic (in the US.)
Anxiety is likely a big factor for me in wanting to be home with a book or the internet all the time. I don't think I like my "inner voice". It just whines at me.
You have my permission to leave. I'm happy with my spouse almost all the time and I think people should be happy. It's good to understand yourself and be clear about what you want. Maybe take a walk and think it over.
If you can't find people to be active with you can probably recruit a dog that wants to get more exercise. Dogs can be great friends when people aren't cooperating.
posted by puddledork at 11:32 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
In pre-cell phone days, hiking was a lot more interesting for me if I took a camera with me. We have also had compromise times where we did laps in a park and some of the time I sat down on a bench while he kept walking. He does different classes and sports groups and workouts without me fairly frequently and we spent a big sum on workout equipment for home during the pandemic (in the US.)
Anxiety is likely a big factor for me in wanting to be home with a book or the internet all the time. I don't think I like my "inner voice". It just whines at me.
You have my permission to leave. I'm happy with my spouse almost all the time and I think people should be happy. It's good to understand yourself and be clear about what you want. Maybe take a walk and think it over.
If you can't find people to be active with you can probably recruit a dog that wants to get more exercise. Dogs can be great friends when people aren't cooperating.
posted by puddledork at 11:32 AM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
I do think you need to have some things you do together. How much you "should" or "need" to do together to satisfy you is up to you.
Some couples are passionately, deeply, intensely in love and literally the only things they do together are: 1. eat meals, 2. have sex, 3. cuddle. Seriously. There are very happily married couples for whom those three activities are the only content of their shared quality time.
This short list more typically expands to: raise children; take long plane flights and car rides together; have long talks to share about your day/discuss the news; visit family/celebrate holidays; socialize with shared friends (dinners, drinks).
Other couples are also happily, deeply, in love and they do EVERYTHING together: all hobbies, all socializing, all shopping/errands/house chores, all vacations. They are together literally around the clock. They even consume media together (movies, shows, books on tape) vs separately (reading books separately, watching a movie without your partner).
----
Specifically with the outdoorsy, active thing: My husband and I are both active and outdoorsy, but we have different styles. He tends to want to wear serious technical clothing and turn on Strava and have an ambitious objective. I want to pack a picnic and stop to smell the flowers. I'm happy to hike 10+ miles or bike 30+ miles, but at a WAY slower pace and very different energy than he would do alone or with his friends. Figuring that out has made us both a lot happier!
As you can imagine, there are infinite points in between these two ends of the spectrum. There is no "should" or "right" answer. It's what do you want out of your relationship? It's ok to say to your partner: I would like us to have one shared hobby. What is a shared hobby we can cultivate?
----
A more meta note, zoomed out from your question about hobby-overlap for compatibility: You want your gut to be saying yes to the person you make your life partner. Your head might have some doubts to work through, but your gut should be all in.
posted by amaire at 11:43 AM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
Some couples are passionately, deeply, intensely in love and literally the only things they do together are: 1. eat meals, 2. have sex, 3. cuddle. Seriously. There are very happily married couples for whom those three activities are the only content of their shared quality time.
This short list more typically expands to: raise children; take long plane flights and car rides together; have long talks to share about your day/discuss the news; visit family/celebrate holidays; socialize with shared friends (dinners, drinks).
Other couples are also happily, deeply, in love and they do EVERYTHING together: all hobbies, all socializing, all shopping/errands/house chores, all vacations. They are together literally around the clock. They even consume media together (movies, shows, books on tape) vs separately (reading books separately, watching a movie without your partner).
----
Specifically with the outdoorsy, active thing: My husband and I are both active and outdoorsy, but we have different styles. He tends to want to wear serious technical clothing and turn on Strava and have an ambitious objective. I want to pack a picnic and stop to smell the flowers. I'm happy to hike 10+ miles or bike 30+ miles, but at a WAY slower pace and very different energy than he would do alone or with his friends. Figuring that out has made us both a lot happier!
As you can imagine, there are infinite points in between these two ends of the spectrum. There is no "should" or "right" answer. It's what do you want out of your relationship? It's ok to say to your partner: I would like us to have one shared hobby. What is a shared hobby we can cultivate?
----
A more meta note, zoomed out from your question about hobby-overlap for compatibility: You want your gut to be saying yes to the person you make your life partner. Your head might have some doubts to work through, but your gut should be all in.
posted by amaire at 11:43 AM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
I'm sad to say (from experience) that it only takes a few easy/fun compatibilities, a succession of external low-grade crises, a distorted sense of obligation and maybe a dog to sustain this nagging doubt for another 20 years. Do you really want that? If it does fly apart, it'll likely be at the worst possible time.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:43 AM on August 4, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:43 AM on August 4, 2020 [13 favorites]
Please, please, just leave.
posted by mkuhnell at 12:00 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by mkuhnell at 12:00 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
Given your clarification, I recommend a reasonably long period of separation -- probably at least a couple of months. If you start to feel...relief, freedom, daily wonderfulness, then you'll know. This separation will be difficult to pull off, but just think of it this way: it will either make you realize the relationship should end, or it will make it stronger. Worth it!
posted by nosila at 12:20 PM on August 4, 2020
posted by nosila at 12:20 PM on August 4, 2020
Response by poster: I've clearly done a very poor job of explaining why this has been a difficult decision for me. Even during our darkest moments, we've managed to end an argument by having a good laugh together. We can have engrossing conversations that last for hours (enjoy discussing science etc) and we have a similar outlook on life. It's not as if the relationship has been terrible 100% of the time, it's just theres issues where we seem to not be getting our needs met and at the moment I can't tell if I can learn to live without those needs and feel happy or if we'll find some other solution or if there's just little chance of this working out.
I greatly appreciate your comments, I don't have a lot of people around me who I can talk this through with at the moment, so it's much appreciated.
posted by sofastyle at 12:38 PM on August 4, 2020
I greatly appreciate your comments, I don't have a lot of people around me who I can talk this through with at the moment, so it's much appreciated.
posted by sofastyle at 12:38 PM on August 4, 2020
I’ve seen a lot of people get stuck in this loop:
When you start acknowledging that you’re both unhappy but swearing you’ve worked too hard and for too long to give up now, sometimes that means you’ve just worked too hard and for too long.
The kindest choice would be to stop squandering time and hard work — yours, hers, and that of the people whose advice you seek. It will be easier to break the loop now than it will be in another six months.
posted by armeowda at 12:40 PM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
They’re unhappy in their relationship, and desperate for advice about what to do;Sound familiar?
The advice is unanimous that it’s OK to leave an unhappy relationship, even after Timeframe X and Hard Work Y;
The advice-seeker ignores the advice and sticks around, and comes back later to ask again, substituting values Timeframe X2 and Hard Work Y3.
When you start acknowledging that you’re both unhappy but swearing you’ve worked too hard and for too long to give up now, sometimes that means you’ve just worked too hard and for too long.
The kindest choice would be to stop squandering time and hard work — yours, hers, and that of the people whose advice you seek. It will be easier to break the loop now than it will be in another six months.
posted by armeowda at 12:40 PM on August 4, 2020 [10 favorites]
No one's mentioned the word contempt yet, but I think it's one that's important to bring up. Because you're unhappy enough with a seemingly unchangeable status quo that you're at pretty significant risk of beginning to become contemptous of your partner's lifestyle. My concern is that if you don't have the emotional maturity to call the relationship a done deal you may not have the emotional maturity to recognize where you're in contempt territory.
It's not that difficult to find accounts of people who neg their partners over having sedentary hobbies, to the point that they wear down their confidence. That's not something you want to do with a partner who's in her early 30s who can't really afford to spend years regaining her confidence over her lifestyle before she enters another relationship. People whose long-term partners reinforce the idea that they're boring really struggle to find themselves with another partner after a breakup, and it can feel very unsafe to pursue dating again if you have reason to believe that you'll be placed in a position where you have to defend your interests. It is possible that someone else out there may be happy with her the way she is now; perhaps you don't believe that, but if you do, it might be easier for you to let her go find that person.
Also, legit question: is the issue with her being a homebody at all about your concerns about her appearance and/or worry about her ability to maintain her looks as she gets older? Because sometimes that's what your sort of concerns are really about.
posted by blerghamot at 12:49 PM on August 4, 2020 [6 favorites]
It's not that difficult to find accounts of people who neg their partners over having sedentary hobbies, to the point that they wear down their confidence. That's not something you want to do with a partner who's in her early 30s who can't really afford to spend years regaining her confidence over her lifestyle before she enters another relationship. People whose long-term partners reinforce the idea that they're boring really struggle to find themselves with another partner after a breakup, and it can feel very unsafe to pursue dating again if you have reason to believe that you'll be placed in a position where you have to defend your interests. It is possible that someone else out there may be happy with her the way she is now; perhaps you don't believe that, but if you do, it might be easier for you to let her go find that person.
Also, legit question: is the issue with her being a homebody at all about your concerns about her appearance and/or worry about her ability to maintain her looks as she gets older? Because sometimes that's what your sort of concerns are really about.
posted by blerghamot at 12:49 PM on August 4, 2020 [6 favorites]
People whose relationships are solid enough to last a lifetime DO NOT seriously, repeatedly question whether they should break up because of obvious incompatibility before they are even married. They just don't.
You guys are not meant for each other. Why don't you stop wasting your time and her precious 30s?
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2020 [20 favorites]
You guys are not meant for each other. Why don't you stop wasting your time and her precious 30s?
posted by fingersandtoes at 1:00 PM on August 4, 2020 [20 favorites]
As someone who has fairly recently realized how much time I fucking wasted in unfulfillling relationships, especially in my 20s and early 30s, how little effort I put into liking people who were good for me (these relationships tended to be about 5 years, coincidentally). I've also blown it and not fought for a relationship that was great, so I've also been where your reticence fears. I notice you never mention her trying to share her interests with you. Might be a "take a hint" situation going on, as someone (or ones) mentioned above. Five years is a long time, more than an entire college education. More than the average NFL career (3.3 years).
GTFO. Be the protagonist (for once?), and write your future yourself. Creating new memories will prove that you can have a life that doesn't include this stress. It's not always effortless, but you'll find that it's a different kind of effort than trying to stay together with someone in a bad relationship.
Also, stop going to your Mom with relationship problems if that's the only place you can vent. More friends, or a therapist, or a bartender, or a spiritual pal.
However, one question that keeps playing on my mind is whether our difference in lifestyle just means we are not compatible.
Sometimes opposites attract. This doesn't appear to be one of those times. All of these questions you ask yourself, what if the answer is "yes?" What's so bad about breaking up?
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
GTFO. Be the protagonist (for once?), and write your future yourself. Creating new memories will prove that you can have a life that doesn't include this stress. It's not always effortless, but you'll find that it's a different kind of effort than trying to stay together with someone in a bad relationship.
Also, stop going to your Mom with relationship problems if that's the only place you can vent. More friends, or a therapist, or a bartender, or a spiritual pal.
However, one question that keeps playing on my mind is whether our difference in lifestyle just means we are not compatible.
Sometimes opposites attract. This doesn't appear to be one of those times. All of these questions you ask yourself, what if the answer is "yes?" What's so bad about breaking up?
posted by rhizome at 1:06 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
I've read your other questions. People-pleasers can tend to meld with whatever situation they are in and call it good. People-pleasers can feel resentful because they aren't being honest and speaking up for what they want and need. They say yes when they really mean no and don't have the guts to be direct or honest. In your effort to maintain harmony you could be wrecking your life.
When people-pleasers feel they have been manipulated or pressured they can be passive-aggressive and will even air their grievances to others (sharing your relationship trouble with your mom) and have this crisis where they feel helpless and confused.
Questions to clarify:
1. Are you the type of person who prefers not to make waves? Do you have a hard time with conflict and have a hard time stating your needs?
2. If something needs to be changed or improved upon do you take action, or do you sit back and blame others and feel powerless?
3. Does leaving your partner cause anxiety because it would bring up conflict and upset your partner? Are you staying because you love and enjoy your partner and living without them would be a heartbreak? Or, would leaving cause too much conflict and you tend to avoid conflict so you stay?
4. Do you tend to blame others for your unhappiness or discontentment rather than seeing how you are contributing to your own unhappiness?
You are young, unmarried, and childless. If being with an outdoorsy person with a more adventurous spirit is important to you there is nothing wrong with that. I would probably say to break up now if this is very important to you.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with noticing and being content with the good things that you have with your partner. Having a similar outlook on life and great conversations is wonderful. No relationship is perfect you only have to investigate what your motivations are and what you really want in life. If there is a nagging feeling that this relationship is not right there may be a reason.
More questions:
1. Do you feel like you need to break up with your partner because there would be too much future conflict between your partner and your mom?
2. Can you imagine life without your partner?
3. Does being single fill you with excitement or dread?
4. Can you state your needs instead of feeling resentment when they aren't met? What if your needs aren't met?
5. Can you accept your partner as she is and know that she probably will not ever be an outdoorsy person? Is this a deal-breaker? Or, do you love her so much that you can live with her just as she is?
6. Was the emotional affair person outdoorsy? If you two were to run off together would you be camping under the stars or does she have differing interests as well?
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:46 PM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
When people-pleasers feel they have been manipulated or pressured they can be passive-aggressive and will even air their grievances to others (sharing your relationship trouble with your mom) and have this crisis where they feel helpless and confused.
Questions to clarify:
1. Are you the type of person who prefers not to make waves? Do you have a hard time with conflict and have a hard time stating your needs?
2. If something needs to be changed or improved upon do you take action, or do you sit back and blame others and feel powerless?
3. Does leaving your partner cause anxiety because it would bring up conflict and upset your partner? Are you staying because you love and enjoy your partner and living without them would be a heartbreak? Or, would leaving cause too much conflict and you tend to avoid conflict so you stay?
4. Do you tend to blame others for your unhappiness or discontentment rather than seeing how you are contributing to your own unhappiness?
You are young, unmarried, and childless. If being with an outdoorsy person with a more adventurous spirit is important to you there is nothing wrong with that. I would probably say to break up now if this is very important to you.
On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with noticing and being content with the good things that you have with your partner. Having a similar outlook on life and great conversations is wonderful. No relationship is perfect you only have to investigate what your motivations are and what you really want in life. If there is a nagging feeling that this relationship is not right there may be a reason.
More questions:
1. Do you feel like you need to break up with your partner because there would be too much future conflict between your partner and your mom?
2. Can you imagine life without your partner?
3. Does being single fill you with excitement or dread?
4. Can you state your needs instead of feeling resentment when they aren't met? What if your needs aren't met?
5. Can you accept your partner as she is and know that she probably will not ever be an outdoorsy person? Is this a deal-breaker? Or, do you love her so much that you can live with her just as she is?
6. Was the emotional affair person outdoorsy? If you two were to run off together would you be camping under the stars or does she have differing interests as well?
posted by loveandhappiness at 1:46 PM on August 4, 2020 [2 favorites]
it feels so trivial to leave a relationship just because we don't have enough interests in common and I'd hate to leave and end up regretting my decision. We share similar politics and values, both are vegetarian and laugh a lot together, so in some ways it feels like we share a lot. It's just that our lifestyles are different enough that we don't really end up doing much together.
To be honest, the list of things you have in common - being vegetarian, sharing politics and values, laughing a lot together - feels ... well, not trivial, but unremarkable when it comes to one's partner. Like, yes they're critical, but also pretty baseline stuff that personally I would expect as the price of admission into a relationship - the relationship should be about what gets built on those baseline things. And I kind of wonder if part of you already gets this because it's obviously not enough to keep you from wondering if your relationship is unworkable.
You say your love language is spending quality time together, but that it's a struggle for the two of you to do things together on a consistent basis (occasional (?) long and rewarding conversations notwithstanding). This sounds like a situation where you're not getting your needs met, and perhaps she isn't, either. Like everyone else says, it shouldn't be this hard. You sound like you're staying together out of fear rather than desire and love, and that sucks for everyone.
posted by DingoMutt at 3:49 PM on August 4, 2020 [8 favorites]
To be honest, the list of things you have in common - being vegetarian, sharing politics and values, laughing a lot together - feels ... well, not trivial, but unremarkable when it comes to one's partner. Like, yes they're critical, but also pretty baseline stuff that personally I would expect as the price of admission into a relationship - the relationship should be about what gets built on those baseline things. And I kind of wonder if part of you already gets this because it's obviously not enough to keep you from wondering if your relationship is unworkable.
You say your love language is spending quality time together, but that it's a struggle for the two of you to do things together on a consistent basis (occasional (?) long and rewarding conversations notwithstanding). This sounds like a situation where you're not getting your needs met, and perhaps she isn't, either. Like everyone else says, it shouldn't be this hard. You sound like you're staying together out of fear rather than desire and love, and that sucks for everyone.
posted by DingoMutt at 3:49 PM on August 4, 2020 [8 favorites]
You've been halfway out the door for months or even years.
It's okay to break up with someone just because you don't want to be with them anymore. You don't have to justify your decision in breakup court. There is no cosmic breakup judge who will decide whether you deserved to leave. There's just you and what your heart really wants.
I think you'll find some parallels to your situation in The Truth That Lives There. Cheryl Strayed (a/k/a Sugar) has a lot of wise things to say that-- to my reading-- seem to apply:
Leaving a relationship because you want to doesn’t exempt you from your obligation to be a decent human being. You can leave and still be a compassionate friend to your partner. Leaving because you want to doesn’t mean you pack your bags the moment there’s strife or struggle or uncertainty. It means that if you yearn to be free of a particular relationship and you feel that yearning lodged within you more firmly than any of the other competing and contrary yearnings are lodged, your desire to leave is not only valid, but probably the right thing to do. Even if someone you love is hurt by that.
posted by tuesdayschild at 4:19 PM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
It's okay to break up with someone just because you don't want to be with them anymore. You don't have to justify your decision in breakup court. There is no cosmic breakup judge who will decide whether you deserved to leave. There's just you and what your heart really wants.
I think you'll find some parallels to your situation in The Truth That Lives There. Cheryl Strayed (a/k/a Sugar) has a lot of wise things to say that-- to my reading-- seem to apply:
Leaving a relationship because you want to doesn’t exempt you from your obligation to be a decent human being. You can leave and still be a compassionate friend to your partner. Leaving because you want to doesn’t mean you pack your bags the moment there’s strife or struggle or uncertainty. It means that if you yearn to be free of a particular relationship and you feel that yearning lodged within you more firmly than any of the other competing and contrary yearnings are lodged, your desire to leave is not only valid, but probably the right thing to do. Even if someone you love is hurt by that.
posted by tuesdayschild at 4:19 PM on August 4, 2020 [5 favorites]
I am one of loveandhappiness's "people pleasers." So was my ex-spouse. We stayed in a 20-year marriage (with an eight-year relationship prior) for roughly 15 years longer than we should have.
I will take a small amount of exception to the characterization of folks like us as not "hav[ing] the guts" to be honest and direct. I have plenty of guts and have taken on plenty of fights -- as long as they were on behalf of people who were not me. A combination of {snowflakes omitted} left me pretty much incapable of believing that I am someone whose needs deserve to be met. I didn't "say yes when [I] really meant no." I said yes because I didn't think no was an option I had.
My ex-spouse was something of a drifter, intellectually and life-wise. Instead of being honest and direct when I tried to have conversations about life direction aimed at making decisions that would suit both of us, he would tell me what he thought I wanted to hear. I can't begin to explain how much unnecessary heartache and conflict these lies (no mincing words; he was lying right to my face) caused us both. He did it because he was afraid I wouldn't approve of his drifty tendencies and because he wanted my respect enough to say what he thought would earn it rather than the truth, is my best understanding.
If either of these portraits sounds like either of you, OP, then that combined with your evident unhappiness spurs me to say get out, get out, get out out out... and ideally do some work on yourself before you get back into anything.
It's probably too late for me to do that work and start again. I don't love that, but life can be that way when you get to a certain age. It is not even close to too late for you or for her, though! Be kind -- give both of you back your futures!
posted by humbug at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
I will take a small amount of exception to the characterization of folks like us as not "hav[ing] the guts" to be honest and direct. I have plenty of guts and have taken on plenty of fights -- as long as they were on behalf of people who were not me. A combination of {snowflakes omitted} left me pretty much incapable of believing that I am someone whose needs deserve to be met. I didn't "say yes when [I] really meant no." I said yes because I didn't think no was an option I had.
My ex-spouse was something of a drifter, intellectually and life-wise. Instead of being honest and direct when I tried to have conversations about life direction aimed at making decisions that would suit both of us, he would tell me what he thought I wanted to hear. I can't begin to explain how much unnecessary heartache and conflict these lies (no mincing words; he was lying right to my face) caused us both. He did it because he was afraid I wouldn't approve of his drifty tendencies and because he wanted my respect enough to say what he thought would earn it rather than the truth, is my best understanding.
If either of these portraits sounds like either of you, OP, then that combined with your evident unhappiness spurs me to say get out, get out, get out out out... and ideally do some work on yourself before you get back into anything.
It's probably too late for me to do that work and start again. I don't love that, but life can be that way when you get to a certain age. It is not even close to too late for you or for her, though! Be kind -- give both of you back your futures!
posted by humbug at 4:37 PM on August 4, 2020 [7 favorites]
I think everyone is right, and "wondering if you should break up" is usually enough of an answer that you should just break up. I've never once considered ending my relationship with my husband. Instead when things like this come up, it's like "how can we improve this situation so it's working better for us" instead of "is this worth sticking around for?" If you're feeling the pull to leave, I think you should - even though sometimes that feeling isn't as obvious as you think it will be.
But, I also think maybe you should make some friends. You and your partner don't have to be all things to each other if that's not the type of relationship you prefer, but in that case, you'll need to find someone else to do those activities with so that you don't feel resentful that her lack of interest in doing them with you is preventing you from doing them.
My husband loves sports. He watches sports, he plays sports, he reads and talks about sports on the internet. I don't have any interest in sports. so when he gets hockey tickets or something, sometimes I'll go if he desires my company (out of love and the promise of getting cotton candy) but more likely, he will take a friend who will actively ENJOY the game with him. We watch sports around the house and I engage to the level that is appropriate because I love him, but he knows I don't really CARE.
I like to sit around and have some deep convos, and he doesn't love that. So I just do it with someone else! And I have lots of stuff I like to do alone, and he doesn't try to get in on that stuff either, thank god.
But, my best friends (who are sharing that designation because they are a couple who do EVERYTHING together - including being my friend) couldn't handle a relationship like ours. They think it's bizarre to spend big chunks of time alone or with other people when you could be together. I think that would make me feel stifled and trapped.
The answer is really, whatever you think it is. If you think you and your partner don't have enough in common to stay together, then you probably don't. If you are enjoying your relationship but you just want to do some things that she's not interested in doing with you, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to break up, it just means you have to find a way to do those things without her!
posted by euphoria066 at 7:14 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
But, I also think maybe you should make some friends. You and your partner don't have to be all things to each other if that's not the type of relationship you prefer, but in that case, you'll need to find someone else to do those activities with so that you don't feel resentful that her lack of interest in doing them with you is preventing you from doing them.
My husband loves sports. He watches sports, he plays sports, he reads and talks about sports on the internet. I don't have any interest in sports. so when he gets hockey tickets or something, sometimes I'll go if he desires my company (out of love and the promise of getting cotton candy) but more likely, he will take a friend who will actively ENJOY the game with him. We watch sports around the house and I engage to the level that is appropriate because I love him, but he knows I don't really CARE.
I like to sit around and have some deep convos, and he doesn't love that. So I just do it with someone else! And I have lots of stuff I like to do alone, and he doesn't try to get in on that stuff either, thank god.
But, my best friends (who are sharing that designation because they are a couple who do EVERYTHING together - including being my friend) couldn't handle a relationship like ours. They think it's bizarre to spend big chunks of time alone or with other people when you could be together. I think that would make me feel stifled and trapped.
The answer is really, whatever you think it is. If you think you and your partner don't have enough in common to stay together, then you probably don't. If you are enjoying your relationship but you just want to do some things that she's not interested in doing with you, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to break up, it just means you have to find a way to do those things without her!
posted by euphoria066 at 7:14 PM on August 4, 2020 [3 favorites]
So I’m married...approaching 10 year anniversary with a marriage I would describe as very good. Your description of hobbies that you and your girlfriend don’t share is not far from me and my wife. I love outdoor activities, adventurous new food places, and taking drives. I exercise almost every day. My wife prefers being a home body, playing video games, watching anime, and crochet. And for the most part the fact that we do a lot of things separately... has made our relationship somehow really great. She lets me do my thing I let her do hers. Now I’m not gonna lie...sometimes I wish she’d join me at the beach. But I’m actually kind of a loaner. So for me doing hobbies on my own is fun. You don’t have to be joined at the hip. Is it that you have the urge for her to join in with your hobbies so you’ll feel closer? Maybe try finding a new hobby or two you both like...but then also do your own things. As far as other stuff it’s hard to say. But I don’t think you should ever discuss relationship problems with anyone other then the person you’re in a relationship with.
posted by ljs30 at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ljs30 at 10:25 PM on August 4, 2020 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for your comments again. Last night I talked with my girlfriend and explained how I was feeling. She said that she'd like to try and do more things together, maybe try going for some walks. I don't put down my girlfriend about her hobbies and interests, on the opposite I've tried to be as encouraging and supportive of her as possible (tuning in to her gaming streaming etc). In genuinely makes me really happy to see her finding something that she enjoys doing, its been a long time coming. However, I have to admit it does worry me a little what the total lack of exercise will do to her health. By the sounds of things, my girlfriend is a little worried about this herself now.
With regards to the people-pleasing, I think I relate to the response of humbug. It's not so much that I'm always conflict avoidant, at certain times (such as at work) I think maybe I'm a bit too prone to conflict. It's more that I didn't really realise that I was allowed to have those needs met or express dissatisfaction in that way. For whatever reason, I just didn't know it was 'okay' to not be happy about those things. This may be partly to do with the dynamic that started in our relationship from the outset, where I was always trying to recompense for some 'crime' that I'd committed, but I think it was also something that I brought in to the relationship myself. Now that I coming to realise that I am allowed to acknowledge my feelings, I genuinely don't really know what I feel. I really just don't actually know what level of shared activities will make me happy with a partner in the long-term, part of the reasoning behind my question I guess.
I never really considered leaving my relationship until the emotional affair, I just tried to work on things and make myself happy within the relationship. It was only when the possibility of something different was presented to me that I realised maybe I shouldn't be staying. However, I didn't want to just leave the relationship for another woman, so I stayed. Reading my original post now really makes me cringe a lot, I think we've both discovered a lot about each other since then. I think when I was writing it I was feeling in love with another woman, but was maybe too scared to leave.
Probably the biggest omission from my original post is that my girlfriend was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder shortly before we got together as a result of emotional abuse she suffered as a child. It's only until quite recently, with a lot of hindsight, that I realised what impact this has had on our relationship. I feel now as if this was probably what was really underlying a lot of my unhappiness. My gf has recently started taking anti-depressants, which seems to have helped her greatly. To be honest, I think starting the anti-depressants is probably the only reason we've been able make it this far, as it allowed lots of the emotional responses to be scaled back so that we could have honest conversations again.
posted by sofastyle at 1:18 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
With regards to the people-pleasing, I think I relate to the response of humbug. It's not so much that I'm always conflict avoidant, at certain times (such as at work) I think maybe I'm a bit too prone to conflict. It's more that I didn't really realise that I was allowed to have those needs met or express dissatisfaction in that way. For whatever reason, I just didn't know it was 'okay' to not be happy about those things. This may be partly to do with the dynamic that started in our relationship from the outset, where I was always trying to recompense for some 'crime' that I'd committed, but I think it was also something that I brought in to the relationship myself. Now that I coming to realise that I am allowed to acknowledge my feelings, I genuinely don't really know what I feel. I really just don't actually know what level of shared activities will make me happy with a partner in the long-term, part of the reasoning behind my question I guess.
I never really considered leaving my relationship until the emotional affair, I just tried to work on things and make myself happy within the relationship. It was only when the possibility of something different was presented to me that I realised maybe I shouldn't be staying. However, I didn't want to just leave the relationship for another woman, so I stayed. Reading my original post now really makes me cringe a lot, I think we've both discovered a lot about each other since then. I think when I was writing it I was feeling in love with another woman, but was maybe too scared to leave.
Probably the biggest omission from my original post is that my girlfriend was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder shortly before we got together as a result of emotional abuse she suffered as a child. It's only until quite recently, with a lot of hindsight, that I realised what impact this has had on our relationship. I feel now as if this was probably what was really underlying a lot of my unhappiness. My gf has recently started taking anti-depressants, which seems to have helped her greatly. To be honest, I think starting the anti-depressants is probably the only reason we've been able make it this far, as it allowed lots of the emotional responses to be scaled back so that we could have honest conversations again.
posted by sofastyle at 1:18 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Glad to hear you had a good talk. My quick add:
I think, unless you have a set of lifestyle preferences that are so specific that one of you is categorically prevented from living the life you want by staying together, the practical differences between you and your partner are less important to the overall viability of your relationship than the quality of the connection and interactions you do have as well as your ability to communicate and balance each other's differences and needs, whatever and wherever they are. Shared daily hobbies and recreational interests are helpful, but those can and will change for tons of reasons - aging, children, work, illness etc. You could find someone who is super active and fit and does all the things with you, and then one day they get injured or sick and can't keep up with you anymore in the same way, or vice versa. I'm not saying you should plan your life around the potential of an outcome like that. Instead, I'm suggesting to weigh your interest in this one facet of your relationship realistically against the rest and see if you can take a broader, more balanced position when you evaluate its merits and limitations. Based on your follow-ups, it sounds like you are already thinking about it in a more nuanced way.
Ultimately you have been with this woman for long enough to know who she is and who she isn't. She is unlikely to change drastically from this point forward. If you want to stay with her, it's important to accept her as she is and stop wondering if the grass is greener or hoping you can change her. If you can't honestly say that on your worst day together you would still wholeheartedly choose her, warts and all, let her go and find someone who will.
posted by amycup at 7:30 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think, unless you have a set of lifestyle preferences that are so specific that one of you is categorically prevented from living the life you want by staying together, the practical differences between you and your partner are less important to the overall viability of your relationship than the quality of the connection and interactions you do have as well as your ability to communicate and balance each other's differences and needs, whatever and wherever they are. Shared daily hobbies and recreational interests are helpful, but those can and will change for tons of reasons - aging, children, work, illness etc. You could find someone who is super active and fit and does all the things with you, and then one day they get injured or sick and can't keep up with you anymore in the same way, or vice versa. I'm not saying you should plan your life around the potential of an outcome like that. Instead, I'm suggesting to weigh your interest in this one facet of your relationship realistically against the rest and see if you can take a broader, more balanced position when you evaluate its merits and limitations. Based on your follow-ups, it sounds like you are already thinking about it in a more nuanced way.
Ultimately you have been with this woman for long enough to know who she is and who she isn't. She is unlikely to change drastically from this point forward. If you want to stay with her, it's important to accept her as she is and stop wondering if the grass is greener or hoping you can change her. If you can't honestly say that on your worst day together you would still wholeheartedly choose her, warts and all, let her go and find someone who will.
posted by amycup at 7:30 AM on August 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Hi OP, I remember your previous questions. I remember I recommended that you not get on the plane to stay with your gf's family for two weeks. I'm guessing that with this question, you did get on the plane. How did it go?
Anyway, I can't comment on the BPD angle, other than to say you might find r/BPDlovedones on Reddit helpful. Is she in therapy for BPD?
I want to reaffirm for you that:
-it's ok to have wants and needs, and they are all valid.
-it's ok to speak up about them and want to get them met. It's ok to realize that your partner may not be able to meet your needs. What you do with that is up to you.
-but it's NOT ok to ignore your needs for the sake of your partner or for "the good" of your relationship (which it seems like you've been doing). That's not a good relationship.
-it's ok to put yourself first in your life. That doesn't mean being selfish, it means if you need to get out of relationship that's not good for you, that's ok. It's a good thing to get out of a relationship that's not working, no matter how painful it is.
-all the feelings that you have about her and your relationship, happy, unhappy, are all valid.
-it's ok to want to change things if you are unhappy. You don't have to stay unhappy in a relationship, nor do you have to stay in an unhappy relationship.
I also feel you have a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on. You want to stay in this relationship because you've already done so much work, it would be a waste to end it now. You're also afraid to admit that you might want out, or that you don't enjoy the relationship, or that she's not a good partner for you, or maybe you're scared to be alone, and you also worry you might regret leaving. Don't stay with someone only because of the long duration, or that you're scared, or you'll worry you'll regret it. Of course breakups are hard and feel bad, but that's not an indication that things shouldn't end. And a relationship doesn't have to be 100% terrible to end. You don't need a "good" reason to end it. If you want out, that's a good enough reason.
Back to your main question: "I really just don't actually know what level of shared activities will make me happy with a partner in the long-term"
My sense is that you want to do more things together so that you're able to connect better. But if it's a "painful struggle" to try and make yourself enjoy them with her, then you might have to find other ways to connect with her. It sounds like being vegetarian, having similar politics and values, while all good, has not been enough to connect with her. You're looking to shared hobbies as way to fix the biiig dysfunctions in your relationship. While doing things together might help, it's not enough to shift the needle to fix a relationship that you've struggled in for so long.
Couples can have no or little shared activities that they do together, but they can still connect. Couples can do everything together but still have a dysfunctional relationship. So the level of shared activities is not a good indicator of happiness or relationship health. Maybe you'll end up breaking up with her and the next person you meet is as outdoorsy as you but in a completely different way. Maybe they won't be outdoorsy but you're still able to connect, and you feel seen, heard, supported, loved and respected. Do you feel like you are getting that now?
That said, what's your connection like now with her? If things stayed the same for another 1-5 years, is that ok with you? As amycup said, you've been with her long enough to know who she is and what she's about. Therefore, do you want her as your life partner? Do you want to be her life partner? If you can't say an enthusiastic, 100% yes, then it's a no. And don't think you can work towards a 100% yes either. If it's not 100% yes now, 5 years in, with all the struggles, pain and dysfunction, it's not going to turn into a healthy relationship.
You sound pretty lost. I hope you find or have a good therapist to talk this out with. If you want to be happy, if you want happiness, staying with her is not gonna give you that. While there's no guarantee you'll find a great relationship if you break up with her, your chances are zero right now if you stay with her. So give yourself that chance.
posted by foxjacket at 10:23 AM on August 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Anyway, I can't comment on the BPD angle, other than to say you might find r/BPDlovedones on Reddit helpful. Is she in therapy for BPD?
I want to reaffirm for you that:
-it's ok to have wants and needs, and they are all valid.
-it's ok to speak up about them and want to get them met. It's ok to realize that your partner may not be able to meet your needs. What you do with that is up to you.
-but it's NOT ok to ignore your needs for the sake of your partner or for "the good" of your relationship (which it seems like you've been doing). That's not a good relationship.
-it's ok to put yourself first in your life. That doesn't mean being selfish, it means if you need to get out of relationship that's not good for you, that's ok. It's a good thing to get out of a relationship that's not working, no matter how painful it is.
-all the feelings that you have about her and your relationship, happy, unhappy, are all valid.
-it's ok to want to change things if you are unhappy. You don't have to stay unhappy in a relationship, nor do you have to stay in an unhappy relationship.
I also feel you have a bit of sunk cost fallacy going on. You want to stay in this relationship because you've already done so much work, it would be a waste to end it now. You're also afraid to admit that you might want out, or that you don't enjoy the relationship, or that she's not a good partner for you, or maybe you're scared to be alone, and you also worry you might regret leaving. Don't stay with someone only because of the long duration, or that you're scared, or you'll worry you'll regret it. Of course breakups are hard and feel bad, but that's not an indication that things shouldn't end. And a relationship doesn't have to be 100% terrible to end. You don't need a "good" reason to end it. If you want out, that's a good enough reason.
Back to your main question: "I really just don't actually know what level of shared activities will make me happy with a partner in the long-term"
My sense is that you want to do more things together so that you're able to connect better. But if it's a "painful struggle" to try and make yourself enjoy them with her, then you might have to find other ways to connect with her. It sounds like being vegetarian, having similar politics and values, while all good, has not been enough to connect with her. You're looking to shared hobbies as way to fix the biiig dysfunctions in your relationship. While doing things together might help, it's not enough to shift the needle to fix a relationship that you've struggled in for so long.
Couples can have no or little shared activities that they do together, but they can still connect. Couples can do everything together but still have a dysfunctional relationship. So the level of shared activities is not a good indicator of happiness or relationship health. Maybe you'll end up breaking up with her and the next person you meet is as outdoorsy as you but in a completely different way. Maybe they won't be outdoorsy but you're still able to connect, and you feel seen, heard, supported, loved and respected. Do you feel like you are getting that now?
That said, what's your connection like now with her? If things stayed the same for another 1-5 years, is that ok with you? As amycup said, you've been with her long enough to know who she is and what she's about. Therefore, do you want her as your life partner? Do you want to be her life partner? If you can't say an enthusiastic, 100% yes, then it's a no. And don't think you can work towards a 100% yes either. If it's not 100% yes now, 5 years in, with all the struggles, pain and dysfunction, it's not going to turn into a healthy relationship.
You sound pretty lost. I hope you find or have a good therapist to talk this out with. If you want to be happy, if you want happiness, staying with her is not gonna give you that. While there's no guarantee you'll find a great relationship if you break up with her, your chances are zero right now if you stay with her. So give yourself that chance.
posted by foxjacket at 10:23 AM on August 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Sounds like you’ve made up your mind to keep trying for a few months.
You mention having felt in love with the emotional affair partner. Are you now “feeling in love” with GF?
If you are, cheers!
If you are unsure, but you’re hoping you could learn to feel that way, if things would just change a little more...then please let her go.
That goes double if you still haven’t settled on kids/no kids, and you’re both secretly hoping the other will change their mind. You say honest conversations are finally possible. Make sure you’ve had that one.
Truly, if you’ve both realized you cannot live without each other, I wish you a lifetime of contentment, and I look forward to not seeing a new version of this question in a few more months. Best of luck, sincerely.
posted by armeowda at 11:00 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
You mention having felt in love with the emotional affair partner. Are you now “feeling in love” with GF?
If you are, cheers!
If you are unsure, but you’re hoping you could learn to feel that way, if things would just change a little more...then please let her go.
That goes double if you still haven’t settled on kids/no kids, and you’re both secretly hoping the other will change their mind. You say honest conversations are finally possible. Make sure you’ve had that one.
Truly, if you’ve both realized you cannot live without each other, I wish you a lifetime of contentment, and I look forward to not seeing a new version of this question in a few more months. Best of luck, sincerely.
posted by armeowda at 11:00 AM on August 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is your girlfriend really behaving "irrationally"? Her insecurity sounds rational to me because YOU ACTUALLY DON’T LIKE HER THAT MUCH, and you of course know that. You're allowed to not be in love! You’re not bad! What’s bad is this festering lie in the center of your relationship. You don’t want to be together, and she is getting that message, but you aren’t owning up to it at all. It's not about love languages and hobbies.
posted by Charity Garfein at 5:23 PM on August 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Charity Garfein at 5:23 PM on August 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
Hey OP. When you ask a question like this, especially one you've more or less asked before, get a load of answers that say A, and then come back repeatedly to try and convince people that it's better if you do B, that sounds like the behaviour of an addict.
Can you see what I mean? It's like you've come on here saying, I think I need to quit drinking because it makes me and other people in my life unhappy and we're all saying, yeah it sounds like you should, and you come back with, oh I forgot to tell you all the ways drinking makes me happy, and actually drinking has been really fun recently, so I think I might just keep doing it ok bye?
I know you're already thinking of ways in which oh no, this absolutely isn't the case, but you can do that all you want - that's how it seems from this side.
And the upshot of that is, it's the same as what they tell the partners of addicts - nothing in your life will change until you decide to change it. You've come here for advice, sure, but absolutely nothing that we can say will convince you that it's time to leave this relationship until you do the work you need to do on yourself in order to change your perspective, and see it from a wider angle.
I get it - I stayed in a relationship for years that wasn't making me happy. Change is hard. Companionship is comfortable and easy. But you know what you need to do, and if you don't after this whole thread, you need to ask yourself some questions, not us.
posted by greenish at 6:23 AM on August 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
Can you see what I mean? It's like you've come on here saying, I think I need to quit drinking because it makes me and other people in my life unhappy and we're all saying, yeah it sounds like you should, and you come back with, oh I forgot to tell you all the ways drinking makes me happy, and actually drinking has been really fun recently, so I think I might just keep doing it ok bye?
I know you're already thinking of ways in which oh no, this absolutely isn't the case, but you can do that all you want - that's how it seems from this side.
And the upshot of that is, it's the same as what they tell the partners of addicts - nothing in your life will change until you decide to change it. You've come here for advice, sure, but absolutely nothing that we can say will convince you that it's time to leave this relationship until you do the work you need to do on yourself in order to change your perspective, and see it from a wider angle.
I get it - I stayed in a relationship for years that wasn't making me happy. Change is hard. Companionship is comfortable and easy. But you know what you need to do, and if you don't after this whole thread, you need to ask yourself some questions, not us.
posted by greenish at 6:23 AM on August 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
Response by poster: Lot's of responses on here recommended therapy. I've spoken with 3 therapists now, one for nearly a year. They don't seem to have helped at all. I'm speaking with a fourth person now, which is a bit better, but still not helping much. I wondered if anyone would recommend a particular type of therapy that I could seek out?
posted by sofastyle at 11:51 PM on September 17, 2020
posted by sofastyle at 11:51 PM on September 17, 2020
Hi OP, I've held off replying in case others had anything more useful to say here, but I think that this question (Can you recommend therapy approaches for me) is so big you kind of need a whole fresh AskMe for it.
We can't know what's working and what's not working about what you're doing so far without more detail, so it's kind of impossible to make any kind of sensible recommendation, I would think.
Why not start a new question, tell us what kind of stuff you've been covering and what's helping, what's not, what you're hoping to accomplish etc. Then maybe people can help and advise.
posted by greenish at 12:26 PM on September 22, 2020
We can't know what's working and what's not working about what you're doing so far without more detail, so it's kind of impossible to make any kind of sensible recommendation, I would think.
Why not start a new question, tell us what kind of stuff you've been covering and what's helping, what's not, what you're hoping to accomplish etc. Then maybe people can help and advise.
posted by greenish at 12:26 PM on September 22, 2020
Hi, I know this is late but I’m chiming in to say-
I was once in a relationship kind of like this. The guy was a wonderful guy, he just wasn’t “my guy.” And I knew that all along, but we kept trying to make it work because there were aspects of each others’ personalities that we really enjoyed. We just didn’t have that special “thing” that makes a romantic relationship stick. In retrospect, we should have cultivated a friendship instead of trying (for about 2.5 years) to “make it work” romantically.
It’s hard to describe why your relationship isn’t “working.” It feels like it should work, logically, and you enjoy your girlfriend’s company in many ways. So why the constant strife?? Because she’s just not your person. At a basic level, there should be a foundation of attraction, appreciation, and a fondness that slightly defies logic between you and a committed romantic partner. It’s the glue that makes sorting through the practical stuff (like lifestyle differences) much easier.
Romantic compatibility cannot be qualified as “I have quality X and she has quality Y, therefore this should be working.” Romantic chemistry and attraction is a mish-mash of hormones and desires created by our life (and childhood) experiences. There is no logic to it.
I was more compatible on paper with the “not my guy” than I am with my current husband. Where is the logic in that?? It’s inexplicable why I am romantically satisfied by a man who is very different than me in several important ways. But I would continue to choose him over “not my guy” every time, because there is a genuine fondness and feeling of being gladly committed and “home” when I’m with my husband that I would have never experienced had I stayed with “not my guy.”
The conclusion that I came to that allowed me finally break free of the relationship with “not my guy” was this:
I realized that love and romance are too important to me to waste time in a relationship with only “lukewarm” feelings.
Think about this. You will not be young forever. You deserve to experience deep romantic love, passion, and undeniable attraction to a partner. This is one of the great joys life has to offer. There is no reason to suffer through the kind of relationship purgatory in which you now find yourself- life is just too darn short.
PS- You may want to examine the reasons why you have been plugging away so hard at making this work - I suspect you have some issues to unpack before you can be fully emotionally available for the kind of relationship that will bring you satisfaction.
posted by key_kat at 5:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
I was once in a relationship kind of like this. The guy was a wonderful guy, he just wasn’t “my guy.” And I knew that all along, but we kept trying to make it work because there were aspects of each others’ personalities that we really enjoyed. We just didn’t have that special “thing” that makes a romantic relationship stick. In retrospect, we should have cultivated a friendship instead of trying (for about 2.5 years) to “make it work” romantically.
It’s hard to describe why your relationship isn’t “working.” It feels like it should work, logically, and you enjoy your girlfriend’s company in many ways. So why the constant strife?? Because she’s just not your person. At a basic level, there should be a foundation of attraction, appreciation, and a fondness that slightly defies logic between you and a committed romantic partner. It’s the glue that makes sorting through the practical stuff (like lifestyle differences) much easier.
Romantic compatibility cannot be qualified as “I have quality X and she has quality Y, therefore this should be working.” Romantic chemistry and attraction is a mish-mash of hormones and desires created by our life (and childhood) experiences. There is no logic to it.
I was more compatible on paper with the “not my guy” than I am with my current husband. Where is the logic in that?? It’s inexplicable why I am romantically satisfied by a man who is very different than me in several important ways. But I would continue to choose him over “not my guy” every time, because there is a genuine fondness and feeling of being gladly committed and “home” when I’m with my husband that I would have never experienced had I stayed with “not my guy.”
The conclusion that I came to that allowed me finally break free of the relationship with “not my guy” was this:
I realized that love and romance are too important to me to waste time in a relationship with only “lukewarm” feelings.
Think about this. You will not be young forever. You deserve to experience deep romantic love, passion, and undeniable attraction to a partner. This is one of the great joys life has to offer. There is no reason to suffer through the kind of relationship purgatory in which you now find yourself- life is just too darn short.
PS- You may want to examine the reasons why you have been plugging away so hard at making this work - I suspect you have some issues to unpack before you can be fully emotionally available for the kind of relationship that will bring you satisfaction.
posted by key_kat at 5:27 AM on May 16, 2021 [2 favorites]
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posted by rd45 at 2:55 AM on August 4, 2020 [85 favorites]