Convert my thoughts to music.
August 17, 2008 8:14 AM Subscribe
My husband and I are working on a project together, and this part is much more his forte than mine. We're writing a song to represent each novel of the Dark Tower by Stephen King, one of my all-time favorite series. But we're quickly becoming frustrated with each other, because, simply put, I cannot wrap the creating music part of this around my head.
He's fairly accomplished as a digital musician in almost all genres, and we have our own little recording studio at home. Music is his greatest passion, and I'm trying very hard to work with him. It feels like we're speaking two different languages.
He asked me how I think it should sound, and I told him that I keep thinking Neil Young's A Horse with No Name has the simple, desolate sound I think would fit for the first book. He's played some different things with that same feel that I really liked, but we're having trouble because I can't tell him why I like them or where they should fit in with the rest of the song. All I know is that I like what he's playing. If I don't like something he's played, I know that I don't like it. I can tell him it doesn't sound right, but I can't express to him what would sound right. (Most of the time I don't have an idea of what would sound right; he's always been much more creative than I.)
The main problem seems to be that he thinks I'm too quick to judge music without understanding the elements that make up the song, and that this specific trait is stopping this project in its tracks. He seems to think that if I could just hum some sort of tune, then all would be well. I know that I don't think like that. I appreciate all sorts of music, and I have strong ideas about my likes and dislikes.
So, O Hive Mind, can you help a true beginner try to express herself musically? Or maybe just learn to understand how a song is constructed? BTW, I have read some previous threads, and the advice therein completely flew over my head. I need beginner advice. Not even crawl-before-you-can-walk type of advice, more like cure-your-paralysis type of advice.
He's fairly accomplished as a digital musician in almost all genres, and we have our own little recording studio at home. Music is his greatest passion, and I'm trying very hard to work with him. It feels like we're speaking two different languages.
He asked me how I think it should sound, and I told him that I keep thinking Neil Young's A Horse with No Name has the simple, desolate sound I think would fit for the first book. He's played some different things with that same feel that I really liked, but we're having trouble because I can't tell him why I like them or where they should fit in with the rest of the song. All I know is that I like what he's playing. If I don't like something he's played, I know that I don't like it. I can tell him it doesn't sound right, but I can't express to him what would sound right. (Most of the time I don't have an idea of what would sound right; he's always been much more creative than I.)
The main problem seems to be that he thinks I'm too quick to judge music without understanding the elements that make up the song, and that this specific trait is stopping this project in its tracks. He seems to think that if I could just hum some sort of tune, then all would be well. I know that I don't think like that. I appreciate all sorts of music, and I have strong ideas about my likes and dislikes.
So, O Hive Mind, can you help a true beginner try to express herself musically? Or maybe just learn to understand how a song is constructed? BTW, I have read some previous threads, and the advice therein completely flew over my head. I need beginner advice. Not even crawl-before-you-can-walk type of advice, more like cure-your-paralysis type of advice.
Best answer: Pedantry: A Horse with No name is America, not Neil Young.
As far as the music goes, perhaps you should grab a book on college-level music appreciation. There are particular elements of music that you might be able to start to identify in more detail, which could help with the lack of a shared language that seems to be at the root of your disagreement over this. You'd also have the side effects of learning something new (isn't that why one undertakes any project?) and proving to him that you aren't solely making snap-judgments.
posted by ellF at 8:45 AM on August 17, 2008
As far as the music goes, perhaps you should grab a book on college-level music appreciation. There are particular elements of music that you might be able to start to identify in more detail, which could help with the lack of a shared language that seems to be at the root of your disagreement over this. You'd also have the side effects of learning something new (isn't that why one undertakes any project?) and proving to him that you aren't solely making snap-judgments.
posted by ellF at 8:45 AM on August 17, 2008
Best answer: I think you're on the right track saying things like, "simple, desolate," and referencing other songs. So maybe what you ought to do is open up your music library and keep listening to things so you can find more references. And then talk about how the music makes you feel using specific, emotional words (sad, excited, frantic? Foreboding, angry, relieved?). You may start to notice things in common between the music and your emotions, like maybe all songs that to you seem happy have handclaps in them, or maybe many of the desolate ones have violin. Then, when your husband plays you something, use these words too. If you wanted desolate and his creation sounds desolate, then great. If his sounds sad, you can begin talking about the difference between desolation and sadness. Does the track need to be more empty in order to have an empty feeling? Maybe there need to be fewer instruments, a slower tempo, or more space between notes. Maybe one instrument needs to solo in order to evoke the feeling of one person alone somewhere.
posted by xo at 9:00 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by xo at 9:00 AM on August 17, 2008
I've collaborated in this manner as well. patience is needed all around.
>He seems to think that if I could just hum some sort of tune,
>then all would be well. I know that I don't think like that.
creating a melody is essential to songwriting.
So, as i understand it, you've settled (or are able to settle*) on some set of chord changes/feel, but you do not have a melody.
if this is the case, perhaps you could get a recording of the section you both have agreement on
(chord-wise) and you could listen to it (by yourself, at leisure..) and sing along with the chords..testing out different melody scenarios. then bring these ideas back to him.
*from his side, i can think i can understand the dilemma: you can only give a yes/no for a set of chord changes/feel) . He's got to learn how to work with that. (my opinion..)
posted by The_Auditor at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2008
>He seems to think that if I could just hum some sort of tune,
>then all would be well. I know that I don't think like that.
creating a melody is essential to songwriting.
So, as i understand it, you've settled (or are able to settle*) on some set of chord changes/feel, but you do not have a melody.
if this is the case, perhaps you could get a recording of the section you both have agreement on
(chord-wise) and you could listen to it (by yourself, at leisure..) and sing along with the chords..testing out different melody scenarios. then bring these ideas back to him.
*from his side, i can think i can understand the dilemma: you can only give a yes/no for a set of chord changes/feel) . He's got to learn how to work with that. (my opinion..)
posted by The_Auditor at 9:16 AM on August 17, 2008
A song is just a story. Forget the words entirely - I'm purely talking about the music. 'Simple and Desolate'? How do you know it's simple and desolate?? Because it creates that feeling! Where should certain bits go? Wherever they 'fit' into the 'story'. You can't have hope before you come to the full realization that you're screwed? That would be out of sequence!! Or maybe you can? Is that the feel you were going for?
And then of course there's like the basic formulas to a song but they aren't set in stone.
This is giving me a headache just trying to figure out why this is problem? Your ignorance is excusable but can he not see the patterns in the kind of music you like?? Your taste in music is hardly going to be random.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 9:17 AM on August 17, 2008
And then of course there's like the basic formulas to a song but they aren't set in stone.
This is giving me a headache just trying to figure out why this is problem? Your ignorance is excusable but can he not see the patterns in the kind of music you like?? Your taste in music is hardly going to be random.
posted by mu~ha~ha~ha~har at 9:17 AM on August 17, 2008
Best answer: The long-term solution is to get some grounding in music theory. The purpose of music theory is to have a common language with which to communicate in situations like this. Head over to musictheory.net and check out the lessons. They start at the very beginning and are easy to follow. Feel free to mefi mail me if you have specific questions.
posted by ludwig_van at 9:40 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by ludwig_van at 9:40 AM on August 17, 2008
Response by poster: mu~ha~ha~ha~har, he seems to feel that my taste in music is random. I've always looked at music as the backup for the lyrics, and I think he looks at it the other way around.
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 9:47 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 9:47 AM on August 17, 2008
Response by poster: In other words, I like the lyrics in a song more than the actual music. hit post too soon
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 10:09 AM on August 17, 2008
posted by mitzyjalapeno at 10:09 AM on August 17, 2008
How about letting Pandora find the patterns for you, and the terms to describe them? Put in a song that has some sound or feel you like, let Pandora come up with some that are similar in the right ways, and then click the "Guide Us..." and then the "Why is this song playing?" buttons. Maybe some of the descriptors will help make it clearer to your husband?
posted by daisyace at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by daisyace at 10:35 AM on August 17, 2008 [1 favorite]
How about a crash course from Phil Collins? Check out Act One of this week's (rerun) This American Life with Starlee Kine. Most of the specifics about songwriting are in the last ten minutes of the segment. And the end results are pretty magical.
posted by roger ackroyd at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2008
posted by roger ackroyd at 1:00 PM on August 17, 2008
Best answer: He's played some different things with that same feel that I really liked, but we're having trouble because I can't tell him why I like them or where they should fit in with the rest of the song.
Not a songwriter at all, but I think what you need is just be more specific about this. If he plays a bit that you like, which part of it do you like? Hopefully you record these things that he plays and you can say something like "I like that first 0:00 to 0:30 of this bit (call this A) and 0:20 to 1:10 of that bit (call this B) and 0:50 to 1:50 of that other bit (call this C). Can you play them to me in orders ABC, ACB, BAC, BCA, CAB, & CBA?" You still don't need to be able to identify why you like something, but really hone in on which parts you like.
posted by juv3nal at 9:46 AM on August 18, 2008
Not a songwriter at all, but I think what you need is just be more specific about this. If he plays a bit that you like, which part of it do you like? Hopefully you record these things that he plays and you can say something like "I like that first 0:00 to 0:30 of this bit (call this A) and 0:20 to 1:10 of that bit (call this B) and 0:50 to 1:50 of that other bit (call this C). Can you play them to me in orders ABC, ACB, BAC, BCA, CAB, & CBA?" You still don't need to be able to identify why you like something, but really hone in on which parts you like.
posted by juv3nal at 9:46 AM on August 18, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
actually that was America....but FWIW...the first time I heard it I thought it was Neil as well.
posted by timsteil at 8:40 AM on August 17, 2008