What am I doing?
July 5, 2008 7:29 PM Subscribe
I decided to change careers and go back to school for a PhD... I recently got back on touch with an old friend who I always admired. He is living the life of riley in another country. Now I'm doubting why I am even back in school. Help me with my doubt...
His life seems so great. He goes out and parties almost every night, has adventures in the rain forest, volunteers for endangered species camps and seems so content. I feel a bit jealous. Why and I killing myself for a PhD when he can live the comfortable life of my dreams without a serious job? Why is he (through no fault of his) making me feel like I am wasting my time? Help me justify why I am doing this...
His life seems so great. He goes out and parties almost every night, has adventures in the rain forest, volunteers for endangered species camps and seems so content. I feel a bit jealous. Why and I killing myself for a PhD when he can live the comfortable life of my dreams without a serious job? Why is he (through no fault of his) making me feel like I am wasting my time? Help me justify why I am doing this...
His life isn't your life. If you drop everything you're doing now and follow in his footsteps there's no guarantee that it'll work for you, or even make you happy.
posted by schwa at 7:53 PM on July 5, 2008
posted by schwa at 7:53 PM on July 5, 2008
How can he live "the comfortable life of your dreams" without a serious job? How is he supporting himself? You don't say whether his circumstances match yours. Is he living off some massive savings account, or is he getting PAID to have adventures in the rainforest? Did he have to go through specific training to do what he's doing, (i.e. is he a rainforest biologist or something) or is he basically having adventures and not saving money or pursuing a career, etc?
Nothing wrong with that, but it's not very sustainable. You've just apparently re-evaulated your long term plans in life and decided to change careers, thereby forcing you to invest in your education again. It sounds like his goals are short-term (partying, having fun, not a serious job) and yours are long-term (working towards establishing a new career in a job you'll love.) You can't compare apples and oranges.
I have a friend who works 7 months of the year doing freelance grunt-work design, and then she budget travels the other 5 months. She's been doing this arrangement since she graduated college about 6 years ago. She's had a ton of experiences, and I'm often envious, but then again-- she's in the same position she was in the day she graduated college. She has no settled apartment. No serious relationships. No real community in her city. No career to speak of. It's a trade-off. Stop being jealous and remember why you chose what you chose.
posted by np312 at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2008
Nothing wrong with that, but it's not very sustainable. You've just apparently re-evaulated your long term plans in life and decided to change careers, thereby forcing you to invest in your education again. It sounds like his goals are short-term (partying, having fun, not a serious job) and yours are long-term (working towards establishing a new career in a job you'll love.) You can't compare apples and oranges.
I have a friend who works 7 months of the year doing freelance grunt-work design, and then she budget travels the other 5 months. She's been doing this arrangement since she graduated college about 6 years ago. She's had a ton of experiences, and I'm often envious, but then again-- she's in the same position she was in the day she graduated college. She has no settled apartment. No serious relationships. No real community in her city. No career to speak of. It's a trade-off. Stop being jealous and remember why you chose what you chose.
posted by np312 at 8:04 PM on July 5, 2008
I completely agree with both claudius and schwa. You're only getting one piece of the whole of his life. Depending on what you really need to be happy (not think you need or want to need, but actually require) his life might not make you happy at all. Does he have any stability? Does he have a supportive group of people around him or just acquaintances he parties with? Do you require those things to be happy? What do you require?
Of course, the fact that hearing this is both so tempting and so different from your life path, it's worth asking the question, is your path really the one you want? You don't necessarily have to follow his, but adventuring in the rain forest and studying for your PhD are pretty different beasts.
Why did you choose going back to school? I've known a few of my peers who ended up getting post grad degrees (and wracking up enormo debt doing it) not so much because it was essential to their career or because they wanted to be an academic, but because school felt safe. It was safer for them to study and postpone really starting their lives than to work and risk and make plans that might or might not work out how they wanted. Academia provides a more directed path and a road map to accomplishment than most of the outside world and, in their cases, they weren't ready to be without that yet.
I'm not saying this is what you're doing, obviously I don't know enough about your situation to have any idea. But you're about to embark on a really challenging endeavor and you probably owe it to yourself to take a moment to really unpack your motivations and be certain it's what you want.
posted by mostlymartha at 8:09 PM on July 5, 2008
Of course, the fact that hearing this is both so tempting and so different from your life path, it's worth asking the question, is your path really the one you want? You don't necessarily have to follow his, but adventuring in the rain forest and studying for your PhD are pretty different beasts.
Why did you choose going back to school? I've known a few of my peers who ended up getting post grad degrees (and wracking up enormo debt doing it) not so much because it was essential to their career or because they wanted to be an academic, but because school felt safe. It was safer for them to study and postpone really starting their lives than to work and risk and make plans that might or might not work out how they wanted. Academia provides a more directed path and a road map to accomplishment than most of the outside world and, in their cases, they weren't ready to be without that yet.
I'm not saying this is what you're doing, obviously I don't know enough about your situation to have any idea. But you're about to embark on a really challenging endeavor and you probably owe it to yourself to take a moment to really unpack your motivations and be certain it's what you want.
posted by mostlymartha at 8:09 PM on July 5, 2008
This is a perfect time to bust out the ol' "the grass is always greener..."
posted by phunniemee at 8:17 PM on July 5, 2008
posted by phunniemee at 8:17 PM on July 5, 2008
Response by poster: Well I can tell you this much... I worked in the 'real world' for about 8 years only to discover the career path I was following was not the one I wanted to find myself in in another 10 years. I figured if I was going to give up such a high paying career it had better be worth it. I figured I would go for a PhD because it would allow me the freedom later to do what I wanted- where I wanted.
I do know what he does day to day- and it would bore me to tears. But it is the freedom that I envy. I am hoping that I can live for the summers and do the cool things that he does while working my way (during the school year) to a career that will afford me the luxury of 'adventures in the rain forest' type things.
posted by MayNicholas at 8:33 PM on July 5, 2008
I do know what he does day to day- and it would bore me to tears. But it is the freedom that I envy. I am hoping that I can live for the summers and do the cool things that he does while working my way (during the school year) to a career that will afford me the luxury of 'adventures in the rain forest' type things.
posted by MayNicholas at 8:33 PM on July 5, 2008
I figured I would go for a PhD because it would allow me the freedom later to do what I wanted- where I wanted.
Mmm, I'd encourage you to investigate that a little further. My experience and observation is that having a doctorate closes as many doors as it opens.
posted by Sublimity at 9:10 PM on July 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
Mmm, I'd encourage you to investigate that a little further. My experience and observation is that having a doctorate closes as many doors as it opens.
posted by Sublimity at 9:10 PM on July 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I do know what he does day to day- and it would bore me to tears.
Well, there's your dilemma. If you don't mind being the risk of being bored for 8 hours a day, and are good enough at what you do to be paid well for it, you too can have total freedom in your off hours.
Or you can get your PhD and be a professor or researcher, and (hopefully) be satisfied and challenged by your work... but your work will encompass your entire life, and you won't have the after-hours freedom your friend has. Most (though not all -- depends on seniority, type of institution, field, etc) professors spend their summers thinking about research, writing, preparing classes, and so on -- it's genuinely not "time off" for most. The upside, of course, is that you (again, hopefully) get to be paid to think about big ideas and explore them with considerable intellectual freedom. But never forget that one of the ways you pay for that freedom is by having a professional life that becomes inseparable from your personal life.
If you don't want your work to follow you home, you need to pick a different career path immediately. (That's not to say that there aren't professors/researchers who work a strict 9-5 with no after-hours work... but they are pretty rare among people I know.) For all that we fetishize the idea that "your work must be satisfying to your soul," there is a lot of value in living like your friend does -- doing a good job at work, and then totally leaving that at the door and living a very complete life in the rest of the week.
posted by Forktine at 10:11 PM on July 5, 2008
Well, there's your dilemma. If you don't mind being the risk of being bored for 8 hours a day, and are good enough at what you do to be paid well for it, you too can have total freedom in your off hours.
Or you can get your PhD and be a professor or researcher, and (hopefully) be satisfied and challenged by your work... but your work will encompass your entire life, and you won't have the after-hours freedom your friend has. Most (though not all -- depends on seniority, type of institution, field, etc) professors spend their summers thinking about research, writing, preparing classes, and so on -- it's genuinely not "time off" for most. The upside, of course, is that you (again, hopefully) get to be paid to think about big ideas and explore them with considerable intellectual freedom. But never forget that one of the ways you pay for that freedom is by having a professional life that becomes inseparable from your personal life.
If you don't want your work to follow you home, you need to pick a different career path immediately. (That's not to say that there aren't professors/researchers who work a strict 9-5 with no after-hours work... but they are pretty rare among people I know.) For all that we fetishize the idea that "your work must be satisfying to your soul," there is a lot of value in living like your friend does -- doing a good job at work, and then totally leaving that at the door and living a very complete life in the rest of the week.
posted by Forktine at 10:11 PM on July 5, 2008
Maybe you shouldn't be doing it.
Seconding Sublimity. PhD's are, frankly lousy for free time or earning potential or job choice. In fact it is the worst "investment" in secondary education. PhD's are for academics: people who eat, breath, live and die their subject. It is not for people who want to have a lot of free time and/or money and/or freedom. You will have classed yourself right out of 99.9% of jobs.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I developed an application together with school teachers for kids comparing the rewards of staying in school vs earning potential. It used real word numbers to portary accurate rewards/punishments for the kids. The greatest payoff (for time and effort) by a large margin was from 2 years of technical school. The very worst performer was PhD (after drppping out of High School). Spend some time on Google finding the facts.
I know a few people who live la vida loca, I know a few people with PhDs. No one from one group is in the other group.
posted by Ookseer at 12:05 AM on July 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
Seconding Sublimity. PhD's are, frankly lousy for free time or earning potential or job choice. In fact it is the worst "investment" in secondary education. PhD's are for academics: people who eat, breath, live and die their subject. It is not for people who want to have a lot of free time and/or money and/or freedom. You will have classed yourself right out of 99.9% of jobs.
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I developed an application together with school teachers for kids comparing the rewards of staying in school vs earning potential. It used real word numbers to portary accurate rewards/punishments for the kids. The greatest payoff (for time and effort) by a large margin was from 2 years of technical school. The very worst performer was PhD (after drppping out of High School). Spend some time on Google finding the facts.
I know a few people who live la vida loca, I know a few people with PhDs. No one from one group is in the other group.
posted by Ookseer at 12:05 AM on July 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
Sounds like you got the itch for change and risk. Sell your car and move to Paris. Or take a year off and backpack around the world. Do it before you have obligations and responsibilities. From the way you sound, if you don't do something risky/adventurous/spontaneous soon, you'll regret it for the rest of your life.
A good way to get started is immersion language courses. A couple months in Buenos Aires or Barcelona or Tuscany and then hit the road.
posted by conrad53 at 12:55 AM on July 6, 2008
A good way to get started is immersion language courses. A couple months in Buenos Aires or Barcelona or Tuscany and then hit the road.
posted by conrad53 at 12:55 AM on July 6, 2008
Late to this thread, but, dude, getting your doctorate will not give you freedom - unless you're getting it in econ. I have a doctorate in science and as the posters before me said, it closes doors, especially in business, unless you're in pharma. I suppose I don't know what kind of freedom you're talking about - if you have tenure, you have the freedom to express your views without being fired. If you're at a teaching school, you might kinda-sorta have summers off. Is that the freedom of which you speak?
I am so glad that I went through the process of getting a Ph.D. - it gave me confidence and I gained a set of skills that will always be useful - researching, the ability to master any area of study, staying up all night to complete a project, teaching, public speaking, and so on. Also, it does have a cache if you are into that thing, but I find it puts as many people off as it impresses them. I am "other" to many folks I want to be just normal with.
If you are in econ or business, you will be very marketable and get paid well, either in academia or the real world. Our Econ professors at Famous Ivy League Almost School got paid 3x what the science folks got.
But, but....your doctorate is a labor of love and you will work your little patootie off for not much payout except personal gratification. If you want the freedom you describe, which sounds more like you would like economic freedom to do as you wish at some point...go into investment banking for a few years and get the heck out before you turn into a jerk. That's where freedom is. I may seem jaded, but that's what I've observed. Non profits and professors: feel free to lambast me with your definitions of freedom! I'm in business now and, despite the "regular" hours, find my salary and bonus make me feel far more free than when I was in academia. YMMV, obvs.
posted by Punctual at 6:16 AM on July 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
I am so glad that I went through the process of getting a Ph.D. - it gave me confidence and I gained a set of skills that will always be useful - researching, the ability to master any area of study, staying up all night to complete a project, teaching, public speaking, and so on. Also, it does have a cache if you are into that thing, but I find it puts as many people off as it impresses them. I am "other" to many folks I want to be just normal with.
If you are in econ or business, you will be very marketable and get paid well, either in academia or the real world. Our Econ professors at Famous Ivy League Almost School got paid 3x what the science folks got.
But, but....your doctorate is a labor of love and you will work your little patootie off for not much payout except personal gratification. If you want the freedom you describe, which sounds more like you would like economic freedom to do as you wish at some point...go into investment banking for a few years and get the heck out before you turn into a jerk. That's where freedom is. I may seem jaded, but that's what I've observed. Non profits and professors: feel free to lambast me with your definitions of freedom! I'm in business now and, despite the "regular" hours, find my salary and bonus make me feel far more free than when I was in academia. YMMV, obvs.
posted by Punctual at 6:16 AM on July 6, 2008 [3 favorites]
For every person that is telling your story, there is another person in a boring day-to-day job that they don't love, frustrated lifelong learners wistfully thinking that they should have gone back for that PhD. Their friends in academia are so lucky! They get to study what they're passionate about. They get to read, write and teach for a living. They have so many travel opportunities! They get to socialize with very intelligent people at the forefront of their professions! They have an academic schedule that provides plenty of change annually. They may even have tenured positions with fantastic benefits and the freedom to explore whatever topics fascinate them. How totally awesome!
The grass is always going to be greener somewhere. You've got to decide what's going to bring you the most satisfaction in life, and pursue that. If your academic career is what satisfies you most, then you're in really good shape - even if it means that, periodically, you're going to wish you had the time and money that some people in other fields. Periodically, they're going to wish they were you.
posted by Miko at 8:59 AM on July 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
The grass is always going to be greener somewhere. You've got to decide what's going to bring you the most satisfaction in life, and pursue that. If your academic career is what satisfies you most, then you're in really good shape - even if it means that, periodically, you're going to wish you had the time and money that some people in other fields. Periodically, they're going to wish they were you.
posted by Miko at 8:59 AM on July 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is a great question. Have a good look at your life goals. What do you want to leave after yourself (assuming you do want to leave something)? If you admire eternal teenager type ("Where the hell is Matt" video shows it well, and apparently is admired by thousands), do you see yourself as one, in practice? Do you have people in your life that may be affected negatively by you choosing 'freedom'? Is this something to consider?
posted by Jurate at 11:09 AM on July 6, 2008
posted by Jurate at 11:09 AM on July 6, 2008
It seems you are making a big change in your life, and I don't think it is possible to not face doubt on the brink of change. If you had quit your job to get a boring one with lots of freedom on the side, I bet you'd see another friend of yours who is doing a phd, and doubt your actions just as much. It's not for me to say if what you're doing is right or wrong, but sometimes, you have to do your homework, do some soul searching, make a decision, and then just hold your nose and jump in.
posted by shamble at 12:23 PM on July 6, 2008
posted by shamble at 12:23 PM on July 6, 2008
Yes, everybody doing a PhD has moments like this, or even months like this. In fact the drop-out rate in many places is appalling.
So you could go with the herd and stampede out. Or you could hang in there and make plans. You have a long, long life ahead of you. The value of a plain degree is being devalued all the time. Old statistics on the additional earning power of a PhD are old.
There should be space in a PhD program for a bit of partying -- are you putting enough effort into making your current life congenial? Yes, you may have eight years age on most of your colleagues, but you only have to find one or two people to relax with to make life a whole lot better.
posted by Idcoytco at 12:42 PM on July 6, 2008
So you could go with the herd and stampede out. Or you could hang in there and make plans. You have a long, long life ahead of you. The value of a plain degree is being devalued all the time. Old statistics on the additional earning power of a PhD are old.
There should be space in a PhD program for a bit of partying -- are you putting enough effort into making your current life congenial? Yes, you may have eight years age on most of your colleagues, but you only have to find one or two people to relax with to make life a whole lot better.
posted by Idcoytco at 12:42 PM on July 6, 2008
Response by poster: I really want to thank you all for your thoughts. You are right, the grass is always greener. I know that I would regret not following through with this and life is long. I think all I need to rework exactly what I want to do with the degree once it is complete and how to make it happen when the time comes. If I play my cards right I think I can find a happy medium for the future.
Thank you again!
posted by MayNicholas at 3:14 PM on July 6, 2008
Thank you again!
posted by MayNicholas at 3:14 PM on July 6, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Secondly, you only know about his present. Is what he's doing leading somewhere? Is what you're doing leading somewhere?
Finally, did he just fall into this, or is it the culmination of years of effort and planning? Is the end result of your new path going to be equally desirable?
posted by claudius at 7:44 PM on July 5, 2008