Why hasn't our dog gotten better?
May 4, 2008 1:04 PM Subscribe
What is wrong with our dog? He's passing blood again - for the second time in two weeks. He went to the vet a week and a half ago; he had tests and x-rays; he's been on IVs of fluids & antibiotics. It seemed as though he was cured. Then, on Wednesday of this past week, it started up again.
We inherited a little dog about 6 months ago. He's a sweet little guy, and he very quickly wormed his way into our hearts. We love him. Now, I'm afraid he's going to die.
Two 1/2 weeks ago, we took him to doggie day care (this could be totally coincidental - I'm just trying to get all of the facts out there). A couple of days later, he seemed listless. A couple of days after that, he stopped eating and started passing blood. I took him to the vet two hours later. Vet examined him, gave us medicine, antibiotics, special food, and sent him home.
He got worse. He was hospitalized for 3 days, with IVs of fluids and antibiotics. He seemed to recover. He went home with his meds. He ate, he drank, he wagged his tail. A week later, the cycle has started again. He had X-rays. They don't show anything. The barium pills took a long time to pass through his system, but they did eventually pass. His blood tests are normal. But now, he has black, runny stool again, and he's passing blood, even though he's on antibiotics. The last round cost us $1,500. Our budget is high, but it's not infinite - and to keep addressing symptoms without finding a cause seems crazy.
We saw the x-rays. There's nothing obviously abnormal. We saw the blood tests. Ditto. Is he going to die? If so, why? If he'd eaten something he shouldn't (i.e. had plastics), would it show up on the x-rays. If he is re-infecting himself, how? What do we avoid?
He's gotten into the moist cat food in the past. We've put a stop to that. We're trying to keep him from getting dry cat food, but he's eaten some on and off since he got here. Could that be causing him to pass blood?
We don't use any kind of pesticides in our house. We keep things as non-toxic as possible. The cats have not been sick. He does go outside, although never unsupervised. We live in a kind of wild environment.
We're not doggy people, so we don't know what else to do. Do we need to find another vet? Are we doing something obviously wrong? If you've been though this or have a suggestion, please help.
We inherited a little dog about 6 months ago. He's a sweet little guy, and he very quickly wormed his way into our hearts. We love him. Now, I'm afraid he's going to die.
Two 1/2 weeks ago, we took him to doggie day care (this could be totally coincidental - I'm just trying to get all of the facts out there). A couple of days later, he seemed listless. A couple of days after that, he stopped eating and started passing blood. I took him to the vet two hours later. Vet examined him, gave us medicine, antibiotics, special food, and sent him home.
He got worse. He was hospitalized for 3 days, with IVs of fluids and antibiotics. He seemed to recover. He went home with his meds. He ate, he drank, he wagged his tail. A week later, the cycle has started again. He had X-rays. They don't show anything. The barium pills took a long time to pass through his system, but they did eventually pass. His blood tests are normal. But now, he has black, runny stool again, and he's passing blood, even though he's on antibiotics. The last round cost us $1,500. Our budget is high, but it's not infinite - and to keep addressing symptoms without finding a cause seems crazy.
We saw the x-rays. There's nothing obviously abnormal. We saw the blood tests. Ditto. Is he going to die? If so, why? If he'd eaten something he shouldn't (i.e. had plastics), would it show up on the x-rays. If he is re-infecting himself, how? What do we avoid?
He's gotten into the moist cat food in the past. We've put a stop to that. We're trying to keep him from getting dry cat food, but he's eaten some on and off since he got here. Could that be causing him to pass blood?
We don't use any kind of pesticides in our house. We keep things as non-toxic as possible. The cats have not been sick. He does go outside, although never unsupervised. We live in a kind of wild environment.
We're not doggy people, so we don't know what else to do. Do we need to find another vet? Are we doing something obviously wrong? If you've been though this or have a suggestion, please help.
IA really, really N anything resembling a V, but my husband and I have been through some fairly awful times with our dog that involved bloody stool. She was getting the, um, strawberry squirts quite frequently for a while, and we went through exactly what you're describing-- blood tests, antibiotics, IVs. It sucked. They finally ended up diagnosing her with hemorrhagic gastroenteritis, which is a description of symptoms and not an actual etiology.
One of the vets at our clinic eventually lit on the idea of putting her on prescription high-fiber dog food, and that (knock on wood) seems to have done the trick. She hasn't had this particular set of symptoms in about two years now.
You might try mentioning hemorrhagic gastroenteritis to your vet. You might also mention the prescription dog food. (Our girl gets Purina DCO.)
Good luck!
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:21 PM on May 4, 2008
One of the vets at our clinic eventually lit on the idea of putting her on prescription high-fiber dog food, and that (knock on wood) seems to have done the trick. She hasn't had this particular set of symptoms in about two years now.
You might try mentioning hemorrhagic gastroenteritis to your vet. You might also mention the prescription dog food. (Our girl gets Purina DCO.)
Good luck!
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 1:21 PM on May 4, 2008
Has he been tested for parvovirus? Has he had a blood clotting test? Depending on breed, you might also want a von Willebrand's test. How in-depth were the blood tests? Did they include all possible liver and kidney values? What diet is he eating? Did he have a 24 hour fast before starting a bland diet?
Not everything will show up on an x-ray. I might want a second opinion at this point, or ideally a referral to an internal medicine specialist.
posted by biscotti at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2008
Not everything will show up on an x-ray. I might want a second opinion at this point, or ideally a referral to an internal medicine specialist.
posted by biscotti at 1:24 PM on May 4, 2008
My boyfriend's dog, Zippy, has gone through the same thing off and on for the past couple of years, and it's been tricky to nail down as well -- infection, parasites, and/or the doggy version of IBS (irritable bowel syndrome) have all been plausible culprits.
So far, Flagyl has worked the best in keeping things under control. We also feed her a vet-approved kibble (sometimes augmented with a little rice, shredded carrot, and/or chicken), and watch her like a hawk during her walks to make sure she doesn't eat cat shit (which Zippy has an unfortunate taste for).
Good luck!
posted by scody at 1:31 PM on May 4, 2008
So far, Flagyl has worked the best in keeping things under control. We also feed her a vet-approved kibble (sometimes augmented with a little rice, shredded carrot, and/or chicken), and watch her like a hawk during her walks to make sure she doesn't eat cat shit (which Zippy has an unfortunate taste for).
Good luck!
posted by scody at 1:31 PM on May 4, 2008
Did the vet do a fecal exam? It's hard to say from just reading this, but it is possible that he has both hookworms and whipworms. Hookworm infections cause dark, tarry stools, and whipworms can cause fresh blood to be present. It could be a lot of things, but that would definitely be something to consider, and that you should look into.
posted by bolognius maximus at 2:02 PM on May 4, 2008
posted by bolognius maximus at 2:02 PM on May 4, 2008
Last year some sort of gastroenteritis went around the dogs in our training classes. The symptoms were very similar to what you described, the dogs were passing blood in their stool and too weak to move. My own dog, who was very ill at the time, seemed to recover very quickly compared to many of the other dogs (he was eating again and got his energy back within 36 hours, was back to normal in 48), despite the fact that he has a history of stomach sensitivity.
The one thing that my vet did differently than the other people I talked to was that he gave me a dose of carafate, an ulcer medication, to coat and help heal any inflamed or damaged areas of the intestines that were the source of the bleeding. Some of the dogs were sick for over a month and were severely emaciated and weakened from the disease. Of course, I have no idea how fast he would have recovered without the carafate but it is something you should ask your vet about. (I mean not necessarily that specific medication but something that can assuage his symptoms so that he can heal and recover).
Also ask about diet, like biscotti says, the first rule of doggy intestinal distress is usually a brief fast followed by a bland diet (usually rice, pumpkin and chicken) that is high in fiber and very very low in fat. Then gradually add in the regular food. Oh, and get a fecal test done.
posted by hindmost at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2008
The one thing that my vet did differently than the other people I talked to was that he gave me a dose of carafate, an ulcer medication, to coat and help heal any inflamed or damaged areas of the intestines that were the source of the bleeding. Some of the dogs were sick for over a month and were severely emaciated and weakened from the disease. Of course, I have no idea how fast he would have recovered without the carafate but it is something you should ask your vet about. (I mean not necessarily that specific medication but something that can assuage his symptoms so that he can heal and recover).
Also ask about diet, like biscotti says, the first rule of doggy intestinal distress is usually a brief fast followed by a bland diet (usually rice, pumpkin and chicken) that is high in fiber and very very low in fat. Then gradually add in the regular food. Oh, and get a fecal test done.
posted by hindmost at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2008
Response by poster: Sorry I'm so long getting back to you. The vet has given him a high-fiber diet now. He won't eat it. Basically, he just quits eating. We're tying to mix it with his regular food, but right now, he eats around it. Is there any way to make it tastier? Should I try the baby food/rice diet?
His liver and kidney functions were both normal. He's been tested for a broad spectrum of parasites. No to parvovirus. I don't know about von Willebrandt's disease. He's a small mutt, basically, with a lot of chihuahua in him. He had a two day fast, because he just quit eating. He's had all of his shots.
He's on Flagyl right now, but it doesn't seem to be helping much.
What was odd was that he basically got better. He had normal bowel movements, they were the right shape, color, consistency. His energy came back (actually, he still has high energy). Then the bloody stool came back. I will ask about the carafate - we haven't tried that, and it's a good idea.
I thought it meant he had to have eaten something, not that it might be his diet. We can control his diet to a certain degree, but not everything, not 100% (i.e. we keep him away from the cat food, but he's cat-sized and a jumpber, and there isn't much that they can reach that he can't).
BTW, we were led to believe he was 5 - 6 yrs. old when we got him, but the vet says he's closer to 10, if that makes a difference.
You've given me at least some things to ask the vet.
posted by clarkstonian at 3:28 PM on May 4, 2008
His liver and kidney functions were both normal. He's been tested for a broad spectrum of parasites. No to parvovirus. I don't know about von Willebrandt's disease. He's a small mutt, basically, with a lot of chihuahua in him. He had a two day fast, because he just quit eating. He's had all of his shots.
He's on Flagyl right now, but it doesn't seem to be helping much.
What was odd was that he basically got better. He had normal bowel movements, they were the right shape, color, consistency. His energy came back (actually, he still has high energy). Then the bloody stool came back. I will ask about the carafate - we haven't tried that, and it's a good idea.
I thought it meant he had to have eaten something, not that it might be his diet. We can control his diet to a certain degree, but not everything, not 100% (i.e. we keep him away from the cat food, but he's cat-sized and a jumpber, and there isn't much that they can reach that he can't).
BTW, we were led to believe he was 5 - 6 yrs. old when we got him, but the vet says he's closer to 10, if that makes a difference.
You've given me at least some things to ask the vet.
posted by clarkstonian at 3:28 PM on May 4, 2008
Response by poster: Oh, and yes, he's had the fecal exam - two of them, actually. And he's had two exams pre-illness since we got him - one in December, prior to having some teeth pulled, and one in Feb.
posted by clarkstonian at 3:30 PM on May 4, 2008
posted by clarkstonian at 3:30 PM on May 4, 2008
You might want to also consider Giardia - a protozoal thing that is common in areas near us. It's hard to test for, because fecal exams typically turn out negative. It's insidious and hard to diagnose. Stools are extremely stinky in addition to being yellow-ish and organize-ish (sometimes green-ish) in addition to occasional blood.
What cures it is Flagyl, essentially (metra-something-zole). You can buy it for ponds (ours originates from a pond) in something called "Fish-zole." After they are better, GiardiaVax vaccine will prevent future outbreaks.
posted by answergrape at 4:01 PM on May 4, 2008
What cures it is Flagyl, essentially (metra-something-zole). You can buy it for ponds (ours originates from a pond) in something called "Fish-zole." After they are better, GiardiaVax vaccine will prevent future outbreaks.
posted by answergrape at 4:01 PM on May 4, 2008
Best answer: totally agree with answergrape, I forgot that one. Giardia is sneaky. But, GiardiaVax isn't even recommended by the guy who developed it, unless your dog continues to show symptoms. In my parasit class they told us to only use it for chronic cases, not as a preventative.
In regards to making his food taste better, try pouring chicken broth on it.
posted by bolognius maximus at 4:05 PM on May 4, 2008
In regards to making his food taste better, try pouring chicken broth on it.
posted by bolognius maximus at 4:05 PM on May 4, 2008
Response by poster: I'll ask about the Giardia. We do walk him down to a pond, and, although I've never seen him drink, it doesn't mean he hasn't. I'll make a list of everything you all have mentioned to run by the vet, and we will definitely try the chicken both over his food. He seems to prefer chicken and turkey to beef. I appreciate all of the responses - our vet is a good vet, but his bedside manner sucks. He's better with the dogs than with the people. It's helpful to understand why our dog needs to eat the food he does and what other things could be wrong.
It's encouraging to know this most likely is a treatable condition. We'll keep plugging away until we find a cause, if not a cure.
I will also have a talk with the people at the doggie day care to see if there have been any other reports of illness and let them know they may have a problem.
posted by clarkstonian at 4:27 PM on May 4, 2008
It's encouraging to know this most likely is a treatable condition. We'll keep plugging away until we find a cause, if not a cure.
I will also have a talk with the people at the doggie day care to see if there have been any other reports of illness and let them know they may have a problem.
posted by clarkstonian at 4:27 PM on May 4, 2008
One thing to consider with waxing and waning GI signs is Addison's disease.
posted by ebellicosa at 4:41 PM on May 4, 2008
posted by ebellicosa at 4:41 PM on May 4, 2008
Our dog ate a catfood tin lid that he pulled out of the trash. We weren't sure at first, since all we found was the the pop-top. The first time he pooped a piece, we took him in for x-rays. The vet didn't see anything on the x-ray, but said that aluminum didn't show up well, and to watch for bleeding. (We never saw any trace of blood in this case.) Six days later, he threw up a bunch of chunks of can lid, and has been fine ever since.
Our dog has also had Giardia, but that showed up as explosive diarrea with no blood.
posted by dws at 5:13 PM on May 4, 2008
Our dog has also had Giardia, but that showed up as explosive diarrea with no blood.
posted by dws at 5:13 PM on May 4, 2008
Did the vet have any kind of diagnosis for you when he was hospitalized? I think, especially if you are not exactly happy with your regular vet, then you should consider seeing an Internal Medicine specialist. You could also try switching to different brands of high-fiber diet.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:53 PM on May 4, 2008
posted by Rock Steady at 5:53 PM on May 4, 2008
Response by poster: The vet's best guess was gastro-enteritis of unknown origin, and that's what he treated him for. Our dog was severely dehydrated by the time he was hospitalized. He is in general in much better condition now than he was the second time he was hospitalized, but he's obviously not well. I think he's too small to have eaten a cat food lid, and in general, he really doesn't chew things - but I wouldn't swear to it. He is extremely well-behaved, except when he isn't.
We're not getting explosive diarrhea. It's mostly either black, tarry stool, or stool tinged with red. He doesn't act as though he's in pain, but he must be.
Our dog is and has always been a very picky eater. His previous owner fed him Omaha steaks, always by hand. We don't do that. We're feeding him special food now, but he basically turns up his nose. He ate a little bit with the chicken broth. I'll experiment some more tomorrow.
Within reason, we'll do whatever it takes - we just don't know what that is. All of your advice is geatly appreciated.
posted by clarkstonian at 6:17 PM on May 4, 2008
We're not getting explosive diarrhea. It's mostly either black, tarry stool, or stool tinged with red. He doesn't act as though he's in pain, but he must be.
Our dog is and has always been a very picky eater. His previous owner fed him Omaha steaks, always by hand. We don't do that. We're feeding him special food now, but he basically turns up his nose. He ate a little bit with the chicken broth. I'll experiment some more tomorrow.
Within reason, we'll do whatever it takes - we just don't know what that is. All of your advice is geatly appreciated.
posted by clarkstonian at 6:17 PM on May 4, 2008
Yes, it's not recommended for non-chronic cases. The problem is that Giardia can live in dirt and water for at least a month - long enough to re-infect your puppy and YOU. It can stay in water longer than that, I think.
Short of bleaching my lawn and draining the koi pond, Giardiavax is the only thing that allowed the environment time to decontaminate.
posted by answergrape at 6:19 PM on May 4, 2008
Short of bleaching my lawn and draining the koi pond, Giardiavax is the only thing that allowed the environment time to decontaminate.
posted by answergrape at 6:19 PM on May 4, 2008
Oh, and one other thing about hookworms-- they are VERY hard to positively identify. It's entirely possible for a dog with hookworms to pass fecal float tests with flying colors. They are insidious too-- the larvae can get into the dog's eye tissue and cause scarring, which can lead to vision impairment and blindness. Also, if a small child gets the saliva of an infected dog on his or her hands and then rubs her own eyes, the infection can actually pass.
You might ask your vet about doing a hookworm treatment, whether or not the hooks are actually showing up in the tests.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2008
You might ask your vet about doing a hookworm treatment, whether or not the hooks are actually showing up in the tests.
posted by palmcorder_yajna at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2008
One last suggestion - the test for Heartworms usually also covers a disease called Erlychia - it's like lyme disease for dogs, for lack of a better explanation. More common in warmer, tropical areas.
Our dog has it and it presented in a similar way to what you describe. It causes bleeding, etc - antibiotics knocked it back, dog returned to normal, the minute the antibiotics were done, back it came.
YMMV but I'd see if they ran a heartworm test and if so, did it cover Erlychia also.
Good luck!
posted by mazienh at 8:08 PM on May 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Our dog has it and it presented in a similar way to what you describe. It causes bleeding, etc - antibiotics knocked it back, dog returned to normal, the minute the antibiotics were done, back it came.
YMMV but I'd see if they ran a heartworm test and if so, did it cover Erlychia also.
Good luck!
posted by mazienh at 8:08 PM on May 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Our dog also had the scary-looking bloody stools from worms, which couldn't be identified until he passed one (it looked much like a partially-digested blade grass) and we ran it in to the vet. Crossing my fingers for your pooch!
posted by bunji at 9:28 PM on May 4, 2008
posted by bunji at 9:28 PM on May 4, 2008
Response by poster: A week later, and he's finally better. It's been frightening and frustrating. The suggestion of chicken broth was a good one - it got him to eat the food he needed, but was refusing. He's lost a lot of weight, but he's back to his very lively normal spirit.
Thank you, everyone!
posted by clarkstonian at 6:18 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Thank you, everyone!
posted by clarkstonian at 6:18 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
but it doesn't seem to be killing your dog fast enough for that. K-dog was
sick within a few days, and then in intensive care for about a week, getting
support. She was weak for months after that.
Call your doggie day care center, and ask them if any dogs have been
sick there, or report that yours has been. If you don't smell bleach the next
time you are there, walk out and never return.
posted by the Real Dan at 1:19 PM on May 4, 2008