I can't believe you don't know who Edith Piaf is!
May 4, 2008 12:43 PM   Subscribe

I am a newly minted gay boy (out for a few months) who has missed the gay train. I don't know any show tunes, any famous gay icons in queer lore, how to properly do a flower arrangement, etc. Point me to any resources out there that can help me catch up.

Growing up, I was the nerdy, quiet, geeky type with similar friends, never being exposed to the wonderful world of gay history and culture. Now I want to know about Broadway, Edith Piaf, and Rock Hudson, there is so much out there that I don't know where to start. I need a crash course in gay culture and history, a list of show tunes every guy should know, gay dos and don'ts, fashion tips, design tips, flower arranging tips, gay arts & crafts, past and current gay authors, movies, ... anything! I don't necessarily want to turn into your stereotypical gay guy, but I want to be able to know what I'm talking about when I am in the company of them. Help this nerdy guy embrace the Martha Stewart in him. Thanks!

P.S. I don't mean any of this to be offensive to anyone, with the apparent over-saturation of "stereotypical gay" references, I am still learning my P's and Q's of the life, but I assure you I most definitely am gay, boyfriend and all.
posted by Advocate, I to Society & Culture (34 answers total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
wikipedia might be a good place to start
posted by youcancallmeal at 12:51 PM on May 4, 2008


Have you checked out any of the Q guides? They're all breezy, quick reads which take a slightly more in-depth look at exactly the sorts of things you're talking about. There's a guide to Broadway, a guide to Wine and Cheese, a guide to Soap Operas. I've only ever read the one about The Golden Girls, because I love the Golden Girls.

Do you live in a large metro area? I'd suggest going to a nice bookstore in the gay neighborhood where you live (if this exists), and looking at all of the books they have on display. That should get you started.
posted by pazazygeek at 12:55 PM on May 4, 2008


Get out there! I don't know where you live, but find out the gay hotspots in your area and meet and greet. You'll get the crash course just by osmosis - and also realize that you don't have to know EVERYTHING about gay culture - you're gay...whatever you do is part of gay culture. (I'm not gay, but my friends are) Mazel Tov!
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:55 PM on May 4, 2008


Congratulations :)

And yeah.. start from Wikipedia and work your way out from there, but as TLF said, you'll largely get it by osmosis.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:57 PM on May 4, 2008


Assuming you're serious:

You can't be serious! Find your own culture, man. You're not a goddamn indie rock kid. Do what you like, read about what's interesting, gay or otherwise (surely there are decent histories of gay liberation movements and such that you can read if you're dying for a little history). Fashion is for idiots. Watch a Broadway show because you enjoy musical theater, not because it's gonna help you meet Just The Right People or get laid. Pleeeease. You didn't become a different person the day you told your family you're attracted to guys; so what difference does any of this stuff make?

Sorry if this is a hectoring or 'unhelpful' answer; it just seems to me that this point is a hell of a lot more important than how to make a flower arrangement.
posted by waxbanks at 12:58 PM on May 4, 2008 [19 favorites]


My advice to you is to get to know a whole mess of real, live homosexuals. You seem to have a notion of gay culture that is largely informed by myths and stereotypes. Go out and meet more gay people. As it turns out, we don't share a base of common knowledge. For instance, I love showtunes, but those who know me are shocked that I've never seen "The Sound of Music" and don't know "Gypsy" by heart. Neither of these gaps in my songbook have ever prevented me from having delightful discussions with my friends. As you prove, the gender of your sexual partner does not affect your personality or background.

Gay history, on the other hand, is always nice to have under your belt. Rent "Before Stonewall" and "The Celluloid Closet" for some info on gay culture. Read Gay New York (which is long but well worth it) for some deeper insights into how our subculture has evolved into its current form. It's good to know where we came from.

But don't change what you enjoy or listen to or do simply because you think you're supposed to. It's a diverse community, and you represent part of that diversity. Let's face it, you're probably never going to memorize Judy Garland's repertoire or design a line of men's clothing, so why try to fake it? Be yourself and bring that to the table. It'll earn you more friends than the queeny facade you're trying to build.
posted by Help, I can't stop talking! at 1:00 PM on May 4, 2008 [3 favorites]


Well, you know, you don't actually have to know all - or any - of that stuff. No one will kick you out of the club if you don't know Judy Garland from Bette Davis. Unless you're trying to be in a classic films club, in which case, yeah, you might get kicked out.

But for gay film history and commentary, read the book (and watch the documentary made from it) The Celluloid Closet, by Vito Russo.

Really, if you want to learn more about your culture, such as it is, and its history, because you just want to know about it, then more power to you. But if you're going to slog through it because you think you're not the Right Kind of Gay if you don't know it...well, none of us were born knowing this stuff. We all acquired the knowledge over years, by reading, or going to movies, or hanging out with friends. But it's not a requirement for membership.
posted by rtha at 1:04 PM on May 4, 2008 [2 favorites]


You can't be serious! Find your own culture, man.

That is (part of) our culture. Like it or not, showtunes and Bette Davis and high camp are part gay (Western/North American) history.

Fashion is for idiots

So you're into fashion then, are you?

Watch a Broadway show because you enjoy musical theater, not because it's gonna help you meet Just The Right People or get laid.

You apparently missed the part where he said he had a boyfriend.

You didn't become a different person the day you told your family you're attracted to guys; so what difference does any of this stuff make?


As the OP actually said: I don't necessarily want to turn into your stereotypical gay guy, but I want to be able to know what I'm talking about when I am in the company of them.

Sorry if this is a hectoring or 'unhelpful' answer; it just seems to me that this point is a hell of a lot more important than how to make a flower arrangement.


Your point is immaterial. Answer the damn question.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:13 PM on May 4, 2008 [4 favorites]


Walk into any book store. Go to their GLBT section. There you will see endless volumes devoted to queer pop culture.

A note on showtunes. Scorn Andrew LLoyd Weber like he is Idi Amin. Embrace Sondheim, Bernstein, and those compilation albums by Mandy Patinkin or Bernadette Peters and you will be set for life.
posted by munchingzombie at 1:13 PM on May 4, 2008


Oh, and read Susan Sontag's Notes on Camp.

Supplement with a Charles Busch film, plenty of John Waters, and one of those horrid affairs with Joan Crawford or Betty David. Add alcohol and stir.
posted by munchingzombie at 1:16 PM on May 4, 2008


Response by poster: Whoa, OK, granted my question seems a little all encompassing, but I never said I wanted gay culture to consume me, rather I want to consume it, and digest it how I please. I don't expect to know everything gay, but there is a lot of stuff out there that I don't know, some of which I enjoy when I do find out about it, thanks to my boyfriend. I'm just looking for a little guidance here on what resources to take advantage of in my pursuit of knowledge, not to gain a queeny facade. I will definitely look into Gay history, which is a large part of what I was looking for, thanks Help, I can't stop talking!.
posted by Advocate, I at 1:19 PM on May 4, 2008


Bravo! No really, the Bravo channel. A lot of the things you mention seem to be connected with a slightly older gay culture (like Broadway). I could be completely wrong and it could just be my friends, but they're more into general pop culture than specifically gay pop culture. Also, Bravo is easily accessible assuming you have a tv/cable. Project Runway, Kathy Griffin, Flipping Out, Make Me a Supermodel, Millionaire Matchmaker, Real Housewives of OC/NYC, Work Out, and Top Chef are some of its many original programs, and most of them don't deal directly with the issue of being gay but do have a "gay angle." Project Runway is about fashion and has many gay designers, Kathy Griffin loves her gays, Flipping Out's protagonist is a gay man who flips houses, etc etc.

So, while the other things you mentioned are surely a part of gay culture and history, when I get together with my gay friends we're much more likely to talk about who went home on Project Runway or the crazy ladies of one of the Real Housewives series.

IANAGMBIHMGF (I am not a gay man, but I have many gay friends.)
posted by wuzandfuzz at 1:31 PM on May 4, 2008


Read Advice for Recent Arrivals, which while a bit silly in places is sound overall. Relocation is tangential to what's being said. Read the last bit of #2 over and over until you understand.

As an addendum: Whether you like them or not, drag queens have almost certainly been through more shit than you, and are to be respected. If you honestly befriend one, she will take care of you, which may range anywhere from free drinks at the bars to making use of that rock in her purse if the need arises. The badly-behaved ones are to be avoided.

As for where to get your information, a fair bit of gay history is still around. Buy some old queen a martini and have a chat.
posted by Su at 2:06 PM on May 4, 2008


Yes, Before Stonewall and The Celluloid Closet. Netflix, conveniently, has a Gay and Lesbian category, so you can start filling your queue from there. Rent A Touch of Pink if you like Cary Grant and/or Kyle McLaughlin or have a Desi thing.

Learn about the brave, groundbreaking work of the Mattachine Society, read Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City (or watch it, but the books really are good)... if you like comics Alison Bechdel's Dykes to Watch Out For strip has been collected into several volumes, and is likely running in your local purple press.

The two-disc Judy at Carnegie Hall is the definitive recording, if you only have one, etc. I have a big soft spot for the Pet Shop Boy's Very, particularly their cover of "Go West." Noël Coward and Cole Porter are all kinds of old-school fabulous. And yes, Edie Piaf too.

Are you familiar with Tom of Finland? His stuff is at the bedrock of a few long-lived aesthetics which you may choose to take or leave, but it's something to be aware of. You've got a lot of history to get caught up on. Familiar with Harvey Milk? Quentin Crisp? Aware of the Imperial Court System? Honestly, if everyone on MeFi contributed to this thread, it'd just be a drop in the bucket. Don't sweat being a noob, congrats on coming out, and best wishes on finding your own expression of queerness. Just don't feel the need to go changin' unless you feel the need, as it were. You certainly don't have to become better at flower arranging, learn complicated handkerchief codes, etc.
posted by mumkin at 2:06 PM on May 4, 2008 [1 favorite]


Scorn Andrew LLoyd Weber like he is Idi Amin.

Seconded, with the exception of Phantom.

Walk into any book store. Go to their GLBT section.

Seconded, with one caveat: stick to the non-fiction unless you've read a bunch of good reviews of a particular book. I pretty much gave up on gay fiction after having bought about four disastrously bad novels in a row.
posted by CKmtl at 2:19 PM on May 4, 2008


Its Liza with a Z!

If you get a parking spot right in front of the resteraunt/bar/whatever, you got doris day parking.

When I get nervous my work tends to get too poofy (watch Steel Magnolias a lot).

Be yourself and have fun!
posted by BigVACub at 2:29 PM on May 4, 2008


I'm not gonna be at all the first to say this, but man, be you. All gay men don't dig Judy Garland, trust me. You don't have to stop liking, say, Johnny Cash, bulldozers and Red Man chewing tobacco because you prefer to have sex with yr own gender. It's not about anything other than yr sexual preference. Don't rush to totally remake yourself into some iconic image that 'straight' cats who are into stereotypes will dig. Don't be defined by who you sleep with. Just be the person you naturally are and be happy with the you.
posted by dawson at 2:30 PM on May 4, 2008


Some authors to seek out: Michael Cunningham, David Leavitt, Andrew Holleran, Armistead Maupin, Alexander Chee, Dale Peck, Paul Monette, David Feinberg, Gore Vidal, James Baldwin, Essex Hemphill, John Rechy, Mark Doty, Thom Gunn, and Christopher Isherwood. They each have something to say about the 20th/21st century gay male experience. Depending on where you live, you could do worse than walking in to your local queer bookstore and asking what books they think every gay person should read.

This website has some good articles and links about gay culture.

Also, there are plenty of gay quiet, nerdy, geeky types about, so please feel no need to change yourself, but I appreciate the desire to know more about the cultures in which you now find yourself living.
posted by gingerbeer at 2:44 PM on May 4, 2008


Nthing "the celluloid closet"
posted by rmd1023 at 3:28 PM on May 4, 2008




I was a quiet, nerdy boy who had little to no exposure to queer culture growing up too, so I know what it can be like to hunger for queer culture and history. There's so much out there, from radical faeries to bears to queens, and since you're interested in many forms of culture, from books to movies to social cues, any list that people give you will necessarily be limited and subjective. Hopefully, though, a lot of lists from different people will give you a broad sample. I've included a few lesbian/queer women things because I feel connected to them too, and there's some cultural overlap or borrowing or influence. Here are some things I've found to be especially interesting:

Books

Gay New York (as Help, I can't stop talking! mentioned above)
Gay Body (an autobiography of personal growth, in which the author moves through many gay male subcultures and reflects on shifts in queer culture)
Cassell's Encyclopedia of Queer, Myth, Symbol and Spirit (you didn't mention spirituality or religion in your topics of interest, but it's important to me, and this book also includes lots of historical figures, artists and writers)
His (a series of collections of short stories by gay male writers, covering a broad variety of gay male experiences)
No Bath but Plenty of Bubbles: An Oral History of the Gay Liberation Front (this book might be hard to find but it's really interesting)
Half a Life Story by Paul Monette
Odd Girls and Twilight Lovers

Music

The Hidden Cameras
Dave End
Mark Eitzel
Rufus Wainwright
Le Tigre
The Magnetic Fields

Movies

Angels in America
Before Stonewall (mentioned above also, this is a really great, moving documentary with interviews with some gay icons--it's probably the thing I'd recommend the most, as it conveys a lot in a couple hours)
Hedwig and the Angry Inch
Velvet Goldmine
Gods and Monsters

Also, check out the work of artist David Wojnarowicz, the writings of Truman Capote, and the plays of Tennessee Williams.

There's so much out there. Have fun exploring! And congratulations on coming out!
posted by overglow at 3:48 PM on May 4, 2008


I recommend The Other Side of Silence: Men's Lives & Gay Identities - A Twentieth-Century History to any of my gay friends who want to get a sense of our shared history. Part of the issue is that, whereas other minority groups produce offspring that are also members of that group, gay men and lesbians largely have no built-in system to pass on our shared history to the next generation. That's especially compounded by the horror that was AIDS in the 80s - almost an entire generation wiped out wholesale. TOSOS is the way that I reclaimed that history.
posted by awesomebrad at 5:57 PM on May 4, 2008


A note on showtunes. Scorn Andrew LLoyd Weber like he is Idi Amin. Embrace Sondheim, Bernstein, and those compilation albums by Mandy Patinkin or Bernadette Peters and you will be set for life.

Excellent advice, for anyone and everyone!

I am sympathetic. I'm completely gay and hate Judy Garland's repertoire. You don't have to like the same things as other gay people, but it's nice to be in the know.

You can find any kind of camp you actually like (personally, I love Billy Wilder movies) and explore that. Or you can just hang. There's something charming about newbies.

BTW, welcome out!
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:01 PM on May 4, 2008


Wow. I thought I was the only gay eskimo on MeFi. I was wrong.

As far as a proper gay education goes, I'll say this much: I didn't really get camp until I read "Blue Heaven" by Joe Keenan at the tender age of 17. I worked for two rather large bookselling operations during and after college, which gave me the opportunity to get literally hundreds of people to read this book. (PS- Joe, if you're reading this, I want royalties.) If you don't laugh your precious, happy ass off while reading it, you're hopeless..... or dead.
posted by Vavuzi at 8:14 PM on May 4, 2008


Bette Davis and Edith Piaf have their place in history, but (as stated before) there's a wide variety of more recent gay cultural references to check out. overglow had a good shortlist. Of the ones not yet mentioned:

Watch Paris Is Burning and Showgirls and learn about intentionally campy cult-classic cinema, from the documentary and "box office bomb" angles.

Read at least one of Michael Chabon's earlier novels (The Mysteries of Pittsburgh, Wonder Boys--the movie is great too, although much abridged--or The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay) and notice the strange conflict of how this straight author got so much appreciation for always including major gay characters...but that things never seem to work out well for them. Or read David Sedaris and David Rakoff: the NPR crowd's favored gays.

Music: I can only suggest reading/listening up on the career of Bob Mould, who went from fronting Hüsker Dü (a hardcore punk band) in the '80s to Sugar (a power-pop band that's still one of my favorites) in the '90s--when he was outed--to going solo (and electronic) in this decade; he now DJs at clubs around DC and is pretty down-to-earth for being an underappreciated rock god.

Ditto also to wuzandfuzz's suggestion of watching Bravo. But avoid the mind-numbing Real Housewives crap and check out the competitive shows. They're a treasure trove of references. Oh, and along with Kathy Griffin, find and watch anything with Margaret Cho onstage.
posted by kittyprecious at 8:31 PM on May 4, 2008


David Halperin has a course at U-M about exactly this; his book on it ("How to be Gay") is about to be published by the University of Michigan press.
posted by klangklangston at 9:27 PM on May 4, 2008


so, i have to admit that i haven't actually read any of his work, but Wayne Kostenbaum has been recommended to me as someone who writes about gay stuff. Specifically, The Queen's Throat is about how/why gay men love opera. (do they? i don't know, i haven't read the book)

Also, as a queer guy who's been out since I was 16 but feels like there's always more to learn about gay culture, I love this question. A lot.
posted by hapticactionnetwork at 11:07 PM on May 4, 2008


I'm not a gay man, but I grew up on Fire Island. Does that count?

Anyway, my suggestion is Gay Sex in the 70s. It's an interesting and informative cultural retrospective. Life was very different before HIV, but the influences of that era are still felt in the gay community now.

It's also a key piece of gay history to have in your DVD collection.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:06 AM on May 5, 2008


Along with the advice everyone else gave, I highly recommend the following movies. I was forced to watch them (a la Clockwork Orange) when I came out in the 80's.

Now, Voyager
The Women
All about Eve
What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?
Auntie Mame (Rosalind Russell - NOT Lucille Ball)
Suddenly, Last Summer (Hepburn)
and I 3rd Steel Magnolias...you'll get a ton of references...(blush and bashful).

Congrats!
posted by Sophie1 at 7:16 AM on May 5, 2008


Whoops, can't believe I forgot these: My Fair Lady for its widespread cultural (and specifically gay-cultural) significance and Tongues Untied, which (like Paris Is Burning) is one of the rare well-known films focused on a queer American minority group (specifically, black men).

And on my theme of straight men who somehow "speak for" the gay community, check out Ang Lee's The Wedding Banquet and how it compares to Brokeback Mountain.
posted by kittyprecious at 7:59 AM on May 5, 2008


The absolute Gayest thing I've ever done - including various pride parades, dyke marches, gay film festivals, getting gay-married to my girlfriend, etc. - was seeing a screening of All About Eve at the Castro Theatre. The crowd was at least 70% gay men, and it seemed like everyone there knew all of the lines. When it got to the part where Bette Davis says "Fasten your seatbelts - it's going to be a bumpy night," everyone said that line along with her.

If you ever get a chance to do anything like this, do it.
posted by rtha at 9:21 AM on May 5, 2008


[Original poster: This is a response to DNAB's response to me, and extends my earlier claims that you're better off - for reasons of community-building and soul-strengthening - not giving a damn about the things you mentioned in your post, unless you have some preexisting interest in them (or they bear directly on some other interests of yours). I really do feel you're asking an innocuous question that points up some very not-innocuous things about fashion culture and the (mis)use of modern gay iconography. Yes I'm a curmudgeon and hate everything, but I think this is a big deal, and I hope my answer, whether you take it to heart or not, at least adds perspective to the more specific (and in many cases very, very helpful) answers you're getting here. Best of luck.]
You can't be serious! Find your own culture, man.

That is (part of) our culture. Like it or not, showtunes and Bette Davis and high camp are part gay (Western/North American) history.
You misunderstand me, DNAB. (Presumably you do so willfully.) Perhaps my point would've been clearer if I'd said 'Make your own culture'? Everyone knows it's important to have shared cultural reference points, but if this were a conversation about a homeschooled kid entering the wider world for the first time, would you really tell him, 'Go watch TV for three months straight, the absolute worst bottom-scraping network dreck you can find, and you'll understand the true meaning of your homeschooling?' For that matter, would you tell that fella that the only way he can properly socialize with people around him is to do this crash course not in history but in nostalgia, and that 'non-homeschooled culture' has as its major touchstones, say, twenty films, a single historical event in the 60's, four bands, and ten authors who're famous chroniclers of 'Not-Homeschooled Living'?

And honestly, how can you pay respect to any cultural border-police that don't recognize the complexity and beauty of Jesus Christ Superstar? (C'mon, motherfuckers: Any culture that scorns Andrew Lloyd Webber's non-Phantom work out of hand, even his two wild concept albums with Tim Rice, forfeits its right to the label of 'culture' entirely.)

Asking 'Teach me how to talk about Judy Garland' is very definitely not equivalent to, say, finding out your grandparents died in the Holocaust and asking 'How can I learn about the history of European Jewry?' The history of gay men and women in the West is one thing; bad pop is another.

Actually here's an ennobling, indeed worshipful scholarly account of transgressive/queer culture and art over millennia: Camille Paglia's Sexual Personae. She's camp as hell but actually has a brain and a half in her head - skip Judy Garland and go straight to the heady stuff. (I strongly second The Celluloid Closet, but skip the book and go straight to the movie, to which medium the argument is well-suited: it's heartbreaking.)

If you want to enrich 'gay culture' (to the extent that it is a single thing at all, and as it is currently lived, whether that culture will remain relevant for long once marriage equality is achieved and full economic/social integration can be achieved in large swathes of the country), you're better off trading a little common knowledge for a richer emotional context for your shared experience; just know more about culture in general. If you want to know history, learn history - but unless you want to conform more closely to cookie-cutter norms in order to ease your transition into the company of conformists, no one of worth will actually give a shit whether you know anything about Bernadette Peters. A lot of the importance of gay icons is a message of permissiveness and acceptance - and if you're out and have a circle of friends that can support and understand who and what you are, it's not terribly important that you be able to sing along to the same schlock as everyone else, anymore than it's important that you enjoy Armageddon to speak to your cornfed neighbour.

Because interesting gay men have a hell of a lot more to talk about than musical theatre or flower arrangements.

[Don't start with Sondheim, OP. He's too much the ironist and too variegated to serve as a primer; hit the old-time high points if you must (My Fair Lady, South Pacific, the magnificent Singin' in the Rain, etc.) before delving too deeply into the more modern stuff.]
Fashion is for idiots

So you're into fashion then, are you?
Golly, I'm in the deep end now.

Lemme explain...no there is too much, lemme sum up. Fashion - what clothes are popular, what 'style' marks you as well-off and of-the-moment - is meaningless. There are the economic and cultural facts: the inaccessibility of high fashion to any but the grotesquely loaded, the years-in-advance picking of 'this year's colours' for dyeing purposes, the horrifying abuse of bodies and body-images to sell ornaments, the way high fashion culture and the fatuous Hollywood-celeb culture are intertwined, the theater-of-zombies melodrama of idiot models and tyrannical designers putting on least-common-denominator entertainments for the hoity-toity, etc. But there's also the basic point that a truly inclusive community would never in this world place social constraints on a human being for wearing insufficiently new or expensive clothing.

That's true no matter whom you're in love with.

DNAB, my point very definitely isn't immaterial; sorry you're not convinced.
posted by waxbanks at 6:39 AM on May 8, 2008 [1 favorite]


Aah, film recommendation: Trembling Before G-d, a documentary about gay and lesbian orthodox Jews. Moving/maddening film, with (bonus!) a lovely score by John Zorn.
posted by waxbanks at 6:40 AM on May 8, 2008


The OP asked for cultural referents so he can take part in conversations with people who use those. He's not asking to become a vapid twink. Get over yourself.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:49 PM on May 8, 2008 [2 favorites]


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