Retail hardware filter
April 29, 2008 10:44 AM Subscribe
My new boss has allotted me US$3000 and US$1500 for a new desktop and laptop machine, respectively. I'd appreciate some suggestions about what to buy.
I do a lot of scientific computation, so beefy machines are a plus. On the other hand, I'd like to have a fairly small and light laptop, because I'm pretty dependent on having it around me, these days. I'm pretty much married to Debian/Ubuntu, so linux compatibility is important to me. (It took days to install Debian on the machine they gave me for my current job, because the hard drive and video interfaces were so bleeding edge. For the laptop they gave me, I just gave up, and use debian in a VMWare instance.)
A laptop I can play DVDs on is pretty important, since I don't have a TV, and depend on my laptop for watching movies. But maybe a small laptop screen wouldn't be too bad, if I can hook it up to a decent-sized external monitor. The desktop monitor, on the other hand, should be huge.
I do a lot of scientific computation, so beefy machines are a plus. On the other hand, I'd like to have a fairly small and light laptop, because I'm pretty dependent on having it around me, these days. I'm pretty much married to Debian/Ubuntu, so linux compatibility is important to me. (It took days to install Debian on the machine they gave me for my current job, because the hard drive and video interfaces were so bleeding edge. For the laptop they gave me, I just gave up, and use debian in a VMWare instance.)
A laptop I can play DVDs on is pretty important, since I don't have a TV, and depend on my laptop for watching movies. But maybe a small laptop screen wouldn't be too bad, if I can hook it up to a decent-sized external monitor. The desktop monitor, on the other hand, should be huge.
If you're going to run Linux I would just go with DELL.
posted by thomas144 at 10:54 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 10:54 AM on April 29, 2008
Ah, I see you have a $3000 budget for the desktop. Go for the 3.06Ghz 24" version $2649 + tax for 4GB + 1TB.
posted by tachikaze at 10:55 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by tachikaze at 10:55 AM on April 29, 2008
Response by poster: @thomas144: is there an easy way to determine what's going to accommodate a straightforward Debian install? The last desktop I got from Dell was linux compatible, and came with Red Hat installed. The trouble was, it needed special drivers. Figuring those out was a huge nuisance.
@tachikaze: if I was buying it for myself, there's a good chance I would get Apple hardware because it's so nice, but since it's for work, I think I should get something more utilitarian and development-focused. Blowing a significant chunk of computrons on simulating a virtual machine just to have a pretty machine seems a bit frivolous.
posted by Coventry at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2008
@tachikaze: if I was buying it for myself, there's a good chance I would get Apple hardware because it's so nice, but since it's for work, I think I should get something more utilitarian and development-focused. Blowing a significant chunk of computrons on simulating a virtual machine just to have a pretty machine seems a bit frivolous.
posted by Coventry at 11:05 AM on April 29, 2008
There are a lot of PC options out there, but I too would recommend getting a Mac.
Unless you are getting the most powerful tower, a laptop is often more expensive than a desktop, so I'd recommend flipping your budget around. It might be worth considering getting one very powerful laptop, max out the RAM, hard drive, etc. and skip the desktop all together.
I'd suggest getting a 15" Macbook Pro, since they are very powerful and still quite portable. Get a copy of VMWare Fusion and you can run as many virtual desktops as you'd like (Debian, Ubuntu, Win XP) and can run them in different Spaces.
DVD playback is pretty standard, and you get get a DVI to Video Adapter and hook it up to your TV.
posted by flxyp at 11:08 AM on April 29, 2008
Unless you are getting the most powerful tower, a laptop is often more expensive than a desktop, so I'd recommend flipping your budget around. It might be worth considering getting one very powerful laptop, max out the RAM, hard drive, etc. and skip the desktop all together.
I'd suggest getting a 15" Macbook Pro, since they are very powerful and still quite portable. Get a copy of VMWare Fusion and you can run as many virtual desktops as you'd like (Debian, Ubuntu, Win XP) and can run them in different Spaces.
DVD playback is pretty standard, and you get get a DVI to Video Adapter and hook it up to your TV.
posted by flxyp at 11:08 AM on April 29, 2008
You've got the right idea - heavy lifting on the desktop, portability on the laptop.
Until you mentioned watching DVDs, I was going to recommend the EEE laptops. Tiny, pretty, and uber-portable (I have major techno-lust). The new version comes out at the end of May, with 20GB of HD.
If DVDs are a must, look at some of the 12 inch Dells. They're almost all well-supported by Ubuntu, in my experience. There's also Ubuntu's Laptop Testing Team which will give you lots of info on what will and won't work with common laptops.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:11 AM on April 29, 2008
Until you mentioned watching DVDs, I was going to recommend the EEE laptops. Tiny, pretty, and uber-portable (I have major techno-lust). The new version comes out at the end of May, with 20GB of HD.
If DVDs are a must, look at some of the 12 inch Dells. They're almost all well-supported by Ubuntu, in my experience. There's also Ubuntu's Laptop Testing Team which will give you lots of info on what will and won't work with common laptops.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:11 AM on April 29, 2008
Also, this is metafilter, so expect lots of people to tell you to get a Mac. As a fellow computational scientist and Ubuntu user, I'll suggest that you ignore them. If you're a comfortable linux user, a Mac probably isn't your best bet.
posted by chrisamiller at 11:14 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by chrisamiller at 11:14 AM on April 29, 2008 [1 favorite]
I love my black MacBook laptop as well as my office Mac G5
Before buying anything, Mac or PC why not go to any Apple store and talk with their staff about your needs and what programs you need to run. Do the same with Dell or what ever PC brand you like.
posted by blast at 11:22 AM on April 29, 2008
Before buying anything, Mac or PC why not go to any Apple store and talk with their staff about your needs and what programs you need to run. Do the same with Dell or what ever PC brand you like.
posted by blast at 11:22 AM on April 29, 2008
You seem to have some preference for good old-fashioned Debian - if I were you I would ask this question in a Debian forum.
posted by thomas144 at 11:47 AM on April 29, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 11:47 AM on April 29, 2008
I would recommend an Emperor Linux laptop. Though they are slightly out of your price range, they're very nice machines, and you get terrific customer support (they'll offer to remotely connect to your machine to help you troubleshoot/update/etc.)
FYI- Emporer machines come with a custom build of Ubuntu.
posted by frankie_stubbs at 12:09 PM on April 29, 2008
FYI- Emporer machines come with a custom build of Ubuntu.
posted by frankie_stubbs at 12:09 PM on April 29, 2008
I would go for a quad-core Core 2, especially if your scientific computing can take advantage of multi-threading. Get 4 GBs of RAM, and choose your monitor and hard drive.
If you're developing software for scientific computing, think about getting a GeForce 8800 for using CUDA.
I would ask on the Ubuntu forums about specific laptops that people had an easy time installing Linux onto.
posted by demiurge at 12:10 PM on April 29, 2008
If you're developing software for scientific computing, think about getting a GeForce 8800 for using CUDA.
I would ask on the Ubuntu forums about specific laptops that people had an easy time installing Linux onto.
posted by demiurge at 12:10 PM on April 29, 2008
For 3 grand, build yourself a dream machine. Seriously. Order the bits from Tiger Direct or similar, and put that bad boy together.
posted by Mister_A at 12:20 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 12:20 PM on April 29, 2008
For the laptop-
Thinkpads have good Linux support, and they're nice machines in general. I think you can even buy them with Linux pre-installed, so that tells you something.
For the desktop-
Quad core with lots of RAM. If you really want to beef up performance, get two fast hard drives and RAID-stripe them. Get an nVidia graphics card... in my experience, nVidia cards "just work" on Linux much more often than ATI or Intel. Dell used to offer the option of having Linux pre-installed on its high-end workstations, not sure if they still do.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:23 PM on April 29, 2008
Thinkpads have good Linux support, and they're nice machines in general. I think you can even buy them with Linux pre-installed, so that tells you something.
For the desktop-
Quad core with lots of RAM. If you really want to beef up performance, get two fast hard drives and RAID-stripe them. Get an nVidia graphics card... in my experience, nVidia cards "just work" on Linux much more often than ATI or Intel. Dell used to offer the option of having Linux pre-installed on its high-end workstations, not sure if they still do.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:23 PM on April 29, 2008
If you get a thinkpad, check out thinkwiki.org
I'm pretty sure you can still get some Dells with linux
posted by trig at 12:38 PM on April 29, 2008
I'm pretty sure you can still get some Dells with linux
posted by trig at 12:38 PM on April 29, 2008
Dell does sell systems preloaded with Ubuntu. I assume this means that you ought to be able to find Debian drivers for the hardware (unless there are some specific ones written by Dell just for Canonical).
posted by caution live frogs at 1:13 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by caution live frogs at 1:13 PM on April 29, 2008
While I've built every PC I've owned, for work I'd just buy a solid workstation.
The Mac Pros are expensive, but you get a good amount of machine for the money. You'd be hard pressed to put together a dual quad core of comparable quality at that price.
The brainiac I work with who runs simulations on his PC day and night just uses an off the shelf Dell Precision workstation.
An iMac is NOT a workstation.
posted by kableh at 1:38 PM on April 29, 2008
The Mac Pros are expensive, but you get a good amount of machine for the money. You'd be hard pressed to put together a dual quad core of comparable quality at that price.
The brainiac I work with who runs simulations on his PC day and night just uses an off the shelf Dell Precision workstation.
An iMac is NOT a workstation.
posted by kableh at 1:38 PM on April 29, 2008
BTW, if you do get a mac, ubuntu should still run on it fine. You can even dual boot with bootcamp fairly easily.
posted by Hackworth at 1:41 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by Hackworth at 1:41 PM on April 29, 2008
Macbook for the laptop. Because of the number of Macbooks sold, it has more Linux users and support than most other models. That isn't saying the support is perfect, though.
I'd probably go with a Dell for the desktop. Google around on all the parts as much as possible to get an idea of how well it is supported.
I suggest you DO NOT build this from parts. You want a machine to work with, not some new configuration debug. You don't want to be cursing and asking why your machine is randomly rebooting for months until you figure out how to make it stop.
Avoid ATI graphics, the drivers are trash.
posted by joelr at 2:07 PM on April 29, 2008
I'd probably go with a Dell for the desktop. Google around on all the parts as much as possible to get an idea of how well it is supported.
I suggest you DO NOT build this from parts. You want a machine to work with, not some new configuration debug. You don't want to be cursing and asking why your machine is randomly rebooting for months until you figure out how to make it stop.
Avoid ATI graphics, the drivers are trash.
posted by joelr at 2:07 PM on April 29, 2008
FWIW, I just bought a Dell Vostro 1200. It's a great little machine for what you pay for it - I paid under AU$1400 for mine and it came with a 2GHz Core2 and 4GB of RAM (12 inch screen). Lightweight and good looking too.
posted by cholly at 4:00 PM on April 29, 2008
posted by cholly at 4:00 PM on April 29, 2008
I agree with Mister_A. Either build the desktop yourself or get a shop somewhere local to build you one. You'll get better parts, less uneeded crap to deal with before the machine is usable and a decent warranty on parts and labor (no voiding for messing around with the software). Shop around and ask for advice here if you need to.
I just built myself a pretty amazing gaming machine for well under $1000. The idea of having a $3000 budget for a machine totally makes me cream my jeans. Solid state hard drive... Gyunhgh.
As for the laptop, I haven't had too much luck with HP and Linux, but I know that Dell has Ubuntu pre-installed if you ask them, and the Vostros I've seen are pretty nice. They have less trial junk to remove as well.
posted by dozo at 4:17 PM on April 29, 2008
I just built myself a pretty amazing gaming machine for well under $1000. The idea of having a $3000 budget for a machine totally makes me cream my jeans. Solid state hard drive... Gyunhgh.
As for the laptop, I haven't had too much luck with HP and Linux, but I know that Dell has Ubuntu pre-installed if you ask them, and the Vostros I've seen are pretty nice. They have less trial junk to remove as well.
posted by dozo at 4:17 PM on April 29, 2008
echoing about half the respondents and saying no, you should not buy a Mac unless it's a Mac Pro (and doing so would blow most of your budget). computationally intensive sometimes means large data sets which means 4GB may not cut it (that's the iMac's memory limit), and you're gonna put Linux on it anyway so there goes most of the reason to buy one. I'd go with a Dell Precision or equivalent Lenovo or HP (HP did make real Unix workstations for a long time) for your main machine - you can get a lot of power (quad-core CPUs and whatnot and 8+GB RAM) for not much; Dell has 24 and 30" monitors that aren't too expensive (24s around 750, 30s about twice, though two 24s would probably be a better idea).
for your laptop, are you going to be doing data manipulation on it directly? if so, I'd probably take a good look at Lenovo's lineup, as they're going to have more flexibility with configuration. if you're not (or if you can do your work via remote control through SSH or X11 on your actual desktop) I'd actually look at a MacBook; the 13"s aren't horribly big and you still get a good amount of power for the money. you can get smaller with Lenovo, however. if you didn't need the DVD drive, I'd have recommended the HP 2133, as it comes with SuSE 10 on it and is Eee PC-sized, but with a bigger HDD and a better screen.
posted by mrg at 8:21 PM on April 29, 2008
for your laptop, are you going to be doing data manipulation on it directly? if so, I'd probably take a good look at Lenovo's lineup, as they're going to have more flexibility with configuration. if you're not (or if you can do your work via remote control through SSH or X11 on your actual desktop) I'd actually look at a MacBook; the 13"s aren't horribly big and you still get a good amount of power for the money. you can get smaller with Lenovo, however. if you didn't need the DVD drive, I'd have recommended the HP 2133, as it comes with SuSE 10 on it and is Eee PC-sized, but with a bigger HDD and a better screen.
posted by mrg at 8:21 PM on April 29, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice, everyone. I went with a Dell workstation and a Lenovo laptop. I didn't realize how much Ubuntu support had improved since I got my last machines.
posted by Coventry at 6:49 AM on May 9, 2008
posted by Coventry at 6:49 AM on May 9, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Apple's laptops have DVI out.
posted by tachikaze at 10:53 AM on April 29, 2008