How to speak when I already know the language.
April 30, 2008 7:29 AM Subscribe
How do I learn to speak a language I already (sort of) know?
I understand Spanish, but somehow I don't seem to be able to speak fluently. What should I do to become fluent?
Most of my family speaks both Spanish and English. At times, I am at family functions where everyone speaks in Spanish and nothing is translated into English. For the most part I understand what they're saying, but when I try to respond to something that is said, I can't find the words, can't figure out what to say or how to say it, I get caught up in my inability to figure out the right verbs tense etc. This means my family thinks (and has thought for years) that I don't speak Spanish.
I think part of my block is mental. Because my family assumes that I don't speak Spanish, they translate for me when talking to me. And it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. They think I don't speak, therefore I don't speak. But the thing is that when I've talked to non family members, I usually have the same problem at least for the first hour or so. After a couple of beers and/or necessity I am generally a little better. But certainly not smooth or fluent by any means.
I've read a lot of the previous threads on learning languages, but a lot of them recommend language tapes/programs and seem focused on beginning to learn a language. While these aren't bad, the tapes don't seem all that challenging for me. I have a pretty good vocabulary - I can surprise myself with words I know. Heck, I've heard the language my whole life - it feels like it's in my bones. I just can't string the words together in sentences.
I've had a conversation partner who told me that my problem was all mental, and he assured me that my spanish was "good". It just doesn't seem that talking to him helps me much. I feel nervous and fluttery and I spend more of the time being uncomfortable with having to speak and preoccupied with my mistakes rather than learning. And this problem really (really) doesn't exist for me in English. I'm never at a loss for words in my own language.
So what would help me speak? Maybe I do need to listen to more tapes? if so which ones? Should I find another conversation partner (he went home)? What can I do to ease the stress of talking to a partner? Those of you who have learned another language - what helped? Is there anyone who has a similar experience? I don't know if I need to try to speak more with my family members or if that would make it worse. Actually it seems to me like it would make it worse.
Any thoughts mefites?
email - zerzik@gmail.com
I understand Spanish, but somehow I don't seem to be able to speak fluently. What should I do to become fluent?
Most of my family speaks both Spanish and English. At times, I am at family functions where everyone speaks in Spanish and nothing is translated into English. For the most part I understand what they're saying, but when I try to respond to something that is said, I can't find the words, can't figure out what to say or how to say it, I get caught up in my inability to figure out the right verbs tense etc. This means my family thinks (and has thought for years) that I don't speak Spanish.
I think part of my block is mental. Because my family assumes that I don't speak Spanish, they translate for me when talking to me. And it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. They think I don't speak, therefore I don't speak. But the thing is that when I've talked to non family members, I usually have the same problem at least for the first hour or so. After a couple of beers and/or necessity I am generally a little better. But certainly not smooth or fluent by any means.
I've read a lot of the previous threads on learning languages, but a lot of them recommend language tapes/programs and seem focused on beginning to learn a language. While these aren't bad, the tapes don't seem all that challenging for me. I have a pretty good vocabulary - I can surprise myself with words I know. Heck, I've heard the language my whole life - it feels like it's in my bones. I just can't string the words together in sentences.
I've had a conversation partner who told me that my problem was all mental, and he assured me that my spanish was "good". It just doesn't seem that talking to him helps me much. I feel nervous and fluttery and I spend more of the time being uncomfortable with having to speak and preoccupied with my mistakes rather than learning. And this problem really (really) doesn't exist for me in English. I'm never at a loss for words in my own language.
So what would help me speak? Maybe I do need to listen to more tapes? if so which ones? Should I find another conversation partner (he went home)? What can I do to ease the stress of talking to a partner? Those of you who have learned another language - what helped? Is there anyone who has a similar experience? I don't know if I need to try to speak more with my family members or if that would make it worse. Actually it seems to me like it would make it worse.
Any thoughts mefites?
email - zerzik@gmail.com
At this point, immersion really is your best bet. Tell your family that you want to speak Spanish with them a bit more, and just go at it. Let them speak Spanish, ask for translations only when you missed something, and speak Spanish, or at least Spanglish as practice.
Fluency isn't something that is exactly learned. You just have to keep trying and saying things. If you have friends who you can go out drinking with and speak Spanish with, do so! The more the better! Besides, you won't learn the slang and dirty words from your family.
Just try to remember that people appreciate the effort of speaking in their language. I was in Japan for a semester and people were so patient and willing to let me try my mangled Japanese rather than forcing them to speak English. "Como se dice" is not a dirty phrase, as long as you're willing to accept that your Spanish is decent and you're willing to try, it will get better every day.
posted by explosion at 7:42 AM on April 30, 2008
Fluency isn't something that is exactly learned. You just have to keep trying and saying things. If you have friends who you can go out drinking with and speak Spanish with, do so! The more the better! Besides, you won't learn the slang and dirty words from your family.
Just try to remember that people appreciate the effort of speaking in their language. I was in Japan for a semester and people were so patient and willing to let me try my mangled Japanese rather than forcing them to speak English. "Como se dice" is not a dirty phrase, as long as you're willing to accept that your Spanish is decent and you're willing to try, it will get better every day.
posted by explosion at 7:42 AM on April 30, 2008
Spanish isn't your problem. Anxiety is.
There are groups out there aimed at getting people over their fear of public speaking. (Toastmasters International is one. Google turns up at least one Spanish-speaking chapter, and a bunch of bilingual ones.) I wonder if they might be able to help you with this? They would, in a sense, be another conversation partner — but a partner who understands how frightening it is to "get it wrong" with people listening, and who can give you pointers on overcoming the fear.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:57 AM on April 30, 2008
There are groups out there aimed at getting people over their fear of public speaking. (Toastmasters International is one. Google turns up at least one Spanish-speaking chapter, and a bunch of bilingual ones.) I wonder if they might be able to help you with this? They would, in a sense, be another conversation partner — but a partner who understands how frightening it is to "get it wrong" with people listening, and who can give you pointers on overcoming the fear.
posted by nebulawindphone at 7:57 AM on April 30, 2008
Can you take an advanced-level Spanish class? Maybe the kind that's conducted in Spanish where you read literature and discuss it, or the kind that's all about grammar drills. Or at least drill the verb tenses out loud on your own, since that's something you have trouble with.
If you can spare the time and money, you could go to a language school in Spain or South America for a few weeks. If it's a good program you'll spend most of the day forced to talk. (Middlebury in CT is supposed to have a very good immersion program too if that's convenient for you.)
Another resource is books (reading aloud and memorizing sections might help). Also, you could try recording yourself reading or declaiming, listening to the recording, and repeating. It might be embarrassing at first, but it'll get better and you might realize you don't sound so bad even when you make a mistake.
So yes, embarrasing immersion and a lot of patience I think.
posted by trig at 8:06 AM on April 30, 2008
If you can spare the time and money, you could go to a language school in Spain or South America for a few weeks. If it's a good program you'll spend most of the day forced to talk. (Middlebury in CT is supposed to have a very good immersion program too if that's convenient for you.)
Another resource is books (reading aloud and memorizing sections might help). Also, you could try recording yourself reading or declaiming, listening to the recording, and repeating. It might be embarrassing at first, but it'll get better and you might realize you don't sound so bad even when you make a mistake.
So yes, embarrasing immersion and a lot of patience I think.
posted by trig at 8:06 AM on April 30, 2008
I thought of one more thing! Finding a volunteer position that doesn't require Spanish but still involves interacting with Spanish-speaking immigrants (people whose English isn't so good, anyway). It'll be okay that you don't have perfect Spanish - with even a limited knowledge you'll be able to contribute a lot, and it might help you feel better about how you speak when you see that your ability to speak at all is appreciated.
posted by trig at 8:12 AM on April 30, 2008
posted by trig at 8:12 AM on April 30, 2008
Get drunk. That may sound flippant but I am totally not joking. You'll feel more at ease and words will start flowing more naturally because you won't have time to be worried about whether or not you are saying the correct thing or not. Conversation is really, really a lot easier if you don't have to deal with both the stress of coming up with words and the stress of worried if you are getting it right or not.
(Furthermore, if you make a misstep in the language, you can just blame that on the drinking!)
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 8:19 AM on April 30, 2008
(Furthermore, if you make a misstep in the language, you can just blame that on the drinking!)
posted by mustcatchmooseandsquirrel at 8:19 AM on April 30, 2008
Yeah, start speaking Spanish exclusively with them, start making mistakes but communicate anyway, get a little drunk.
In other words: speaking a foreign language is about communication first, using the language correctly will follow. Trying to do it the other way round is a recipe for not learning the language at all since you'll never know it sufficiently to start speaking it without errors.
posted by jouke at 8:36 AM on April 30, 2008
In other words: speaking a foreign language is about communication first, using the language correctly will follow. Trying to do it the other way round is a recipe for not learning the language at all since you'll never know it sufficiently to start speaking it without errors.
posted by jouke at 8:36 AM on April 30, 2008
I have a similar issue. I was raised in Spain, and now that I'm out of practice with speaking the language, I can't hold much of a conversation. Exposure to the language gets me up to speed quickly, though, and I can understand most of what's being said to me.
I tried taking normal Spanish classes, but it was incredibly frustrating. Finally a teacher told me to sign up for a class my college offers called Spanish for Spanish Speakers. I'd thought I wasn't qualified, but it turns out it was just what I needed. It consisted of a lot of immersion, with a big hefty dose of grammar thrown in.
Check with your local colleges, community colleges, and language schools; these programs exist, and they're just what you need.
posted by MrVisible at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2008
I tried taking normal Spanish classes, but it was incredibly frustrating. Finally a teacher told me to sign up for a class my college offers called Spanish for Spanish Speakers. I'd thought I wasn't qualified, but it turns out it was just what I needed. It consisted of a lot of immersion, with a big hefty dose of grammar thrown in.
Check with your local colleges, community colleges, and language schools; these programs exist, and they're just what you need.
posted by MrVisible at 9:05 AM on April 30, 2008
This is my story too! Right down to the complete understanding of the language and the fluttery feeling while trying to search for the word in my head before I say it. Even worse for me is that my accent is perfect so I sound like a person that just can't speak very intelligently.
A few things have helped me:
1. Talk to some Spanish speakers that are trying to learn English. It makes it collaborative learning experience. They feel as anxious as you do and you can help them through their mistakes and they can help you.
2. If you can, preface your interaction with a disclaimer. Say in Spanish that you are trying to learn the language and would appreciate their patience with the errors you might make. Normal people will be helpful. People like to feel needed! They will gently help you make corrections.
3. Practice as much as you can! My Spanish was never better than the 3 months I HAD to speak to the contractor that was working on my house everyday.
Good luck! By the way, try to find one or two people in your family that you might have a bit of trust in and privately tell them that the translations that everyone is doing for you aren't needed. They can discretely spread the word.
posted by yfatah at 9:06 AM on April 30, 2008
A few things have helped me:
1. Talk to some Spanish speakers that are trying to learn English. It makes it collaborative learning experience. They feel as anxious as you do and you can help them through their mistakes and they can help you.
2. If you can, preface your interaction with a disclaimer. Say in Spanish that you are trying to learn the language and would appreciate their patience with the errors you might make. Normal people will be helpful. People like to feel needed! They will gently help you make corrections.
3. Practice as much as you can! My Spanish was never better than the 3 months I HAD to speak to the contractor that was working on my house everyday.
Good luck! By the way, try to find one or two people in your family that you might have a bit of trust in and privately tell them that the translations that everyone is doing for you aren't needed. They can discretely spread the word.
posted by yfatah at 9:06 AM on April 30, 2008
My local community college has Spanish classes specifically people who've been exposed to a lot of Spanish at home but don't speak it well. One of these might be called "Spanish for Native Speakers", surely Spanish is a common enough language that there's somewhere local you could take a class like this.
You are certainly not alone in your situation:
From this, about teaching Spanish to Spanish speakers:
These students are English dominant and understand almost all spoken Spanish, but they have limited speaking skills in Spanish and do not read or write it.
Although it makes no sense to me that someone who can read English and listen to Spanish would be unable to understand written Spanish.
posted by yohko at 9:29 AM on April 30, 2008
You are certainly not alone in your situation:
From this, about teaching Spanish to Spanish speakers:
These students are English dominant and understand almost all spoken Spanish, but they have limited speaking skills in Spanish and do not read or write it.
Although it makes no sense to me that someone who can read English and listen to Spanish would be unable to understand written Spanish.
posted by yohko at 9:29 AM on April 30, 2008
yohko: the way a language is written is not the way it is spoken. You don't write papers like you have conversations, right?
I had some friends that are fluent native speakers, but can't really write at all. Their grammer is bad, accents are non-existent, and misspellings are rampant.
posted by waylaid at 9:36 AM on April 30, 2008
I had some friends that are fluent native speakers, but can't really write at all. Their grammer is bad, accents are non-existent, and misspellings are rampant.
posted by waylaid at 9:36 AM on April 30, 2008
I'm not really a fan of advocating strategic alcohol consumption to reduce inhibition; however, when speaking other languages, I've found that a glass of wine or two can really really help. I tend to overthink things like grammar or vocabulary choices when nervous and stone sober (and trying to speak in another language) and a bit o' booze seems to help get conversation flowing!
posted by lumiere at 9:44 AM on April 30, 2008
posted by lumiere at 9:44 AM on April 30, 2008
waylaid, It does make sense to me that someone would have trouble writing in Spanish in that situation, but I'm talking about understanding written Spanish that has been written down by other people. Look at word, think about how it would be pronounced, just like seeing an an English word written down that you've heard but not seen in print. I live in an area with a lot Spanish placenames, food items, and slogans -- this might be influencing my opinion of this. Speaking English, it's still considered an embarrassment to mung up things like names of towns and streets, both professionally and personally. My Spanish is terrible but I comprehend a bit more if it's in writing.
posted by yohko at 10:22 AM on April 30, 2008
posted by yohko at 10:22 AM on April 30, 2008
All it takes is practice. You just have to DO it. Once you force yourself (or are in a situation where you're forced) it does get easier. For me, in French, there was a threshold, before which I was too nervous and weird about it, and after which it became natural to speak French first. Also before that threshold, people would switch to English for me, and after, now, they no longer do. The threshold happened at a certain point during my intensive French courses, but once it was past, it was past for good.
All this stuff about the technicalities of the language and all that are distracting you from what you really need to do, which is JUST SPEAK IT. I promise you that it becomes natural very quickly, even when you're not perfect at it.
posted by loiseau at 10:45 AM on April 30, 2008
All this stuff about the technicalities of the language and all that are distracting you from what you really need to do, which is JUST SPEAK IT. I promise you that it becomes natural very quickly, even when you're not perfect at it.
posted by loiseau at 10:45 AM on April 30, 2008
So what would help me speak?
Wine.
Went on a language program years ago in college. I'd had umpteen years of French but when I got there I was reduced to "yes, no, have you seen the pen of my grandmother?" kind of talking. The second night with my French family, my "father" poured me an enormous glass of wine and kept the glass full until I managed to overcome my nerves and just talked. I was still a little shy after that, but it cracked my mental block, and I was able to (re)gain fluency in fairly short order.
The other thing that would help: travel to a Spanish-speaking country, make your way to an area where little or no English is spoken, and make do. It'll come really fast that way.
posted by rtha at 11:19 AM on April 30, 2008
Wine.
Went on a language program years ago in college. I'd had umpteen years of French but when I got there I was reduced to "yes, no, have you seen the pen of my grandmother?" kind of talking. The second night with my French family, my "father" poured me an enormous glass of wine and kept the glass full until I managed to overcome my nerves and just talked. I was still a little shy after that, but it cracked my mental block, and I was able to (re)gain fluency in fairly short order.
The other thing that would help: travel to a Spanish-speaking country, make your way to an area where little or no English is spoken, and make do. It'll come really fast that way.
posted by rtha at 11:19 AM on April 30, 2008
Wow you could be me. I have the exact same problem. I can pretty much understand everything. I can speak Spanish if I really concentrate, but I always sound ridiculous and can only speak in the present tense. I'm just ridiculed by my family for the most part, which is fine by me because at least I'm trying.
I went to Spain with a friend who understood no Spanish and was surprised how well I was able to communicate. This made me feel pretty good about my speaking skills. I mean even though I know I sounded ridiculous and had to think for a few seconds to allow the words to translate in my head before responding I think it was a positive experience and it gave me a tremendous amount of confidence. Nothing makes your brain work faster than being lost in a foreign country. It's like an adrenalin rush because out of nowhere the words just come flying out of your mouth like you're possessed. Afterwards, you can't believe how much you really know.
One of my goals in life is to be fluent in Spanish. My grandma recently passed and she was really the last in my family who spoke Spanish all the time. I mean my mom and her siblings are fluent but rarely speak Spanish now that my grandma is gone and sadly none of my cousins bothered to learn it at all. I mean nothing. They suck. My knowledge is from just sitting around and listening to my grandma and asking questions my whole life so now I'm really missing hearing Spanish and it makes me want to learn even more. I don't wanna do the whole beginning Spanish course crap, but may have to settle for it to get in the practice. I'm thinking about volunteering to teach people how to read at the local library, hopefully Spanish-speaking immigrants. I figure they can school me better/faster than some lame community college course that covers 4 whole chapters a semester. What's up with that?
posted by wherever, whatever at 7:27 PM on April 30, 2008
I went to Spain with a friend who understood no Spanish and was surprised how well I was able to communicate. This made me feel pretty good about my speaking skills. I mean even though I know I sounded ridiculous and had to think for a few seconds to allow the words to translate in my head before responding I think it was a positive experience and it gave me a tremendous amount of confidence. Nothing makes your brain work faster than being lost in a foreign country. It's like an adrenalin rush because out of nowhere the words just come flying out of your mouth like you're possessed. Afterwards, you can't believe how much you really know.
One of my goals in life is to be fluent in Spanish. My grandma recently passed and she was really the last in my family who spoke Spanish all the time. I mean my mom and her siblings are fluent but rarely speak Spanish now that my grandma is gone and sadly none of my cousins bothered to learn it at all. I mean nothing. They suck. My knowledge is from just sitting around and listening to my grandma and asking questions my whole life so now I'm really missing hearing Spanish and it makes me want to learn even more. I don't wanna do the whole beginning Spanish course crap, but may have to settle for it to get in the practice. I'm thinking about volunteering to teach people how to read at the local library, hopefully Spanish-speaking immigrants. I figure they can school me better/faster than some lame community college course that covers 4 whole chapters a semester. What's up with that?
posted by wherever, whatever at 7:27 PM on April 30, 2008
Wow. Same experience here (although not with spanish, but with arabic).
I'm still not able to speak the language properly except when I have no other choice which comes down to :
* Being questionnned at the border by security officials (I couldn't believe how fast it all came back)
* Total immersion
Also nthing that it's not a language issue, more an anxiety issue.
Two things were hard for me : although I understood everything, I forgot most of the words (I sorta solved this by keeping handy a very focused vocabulary list & listening to language learning tapes on the plane on my way there) the other thing was that people are expecting me to not make mistakes, and their reactions can be sort of rude when I make some (about every four words...) - I suppose I shouldn't care, but it is still hard to deal with.
The closest I got to feel good about it was when I was able to convince myself that I shouldn't consider it my native language, but just any language that I'm trying to speak, so it's not that bad to make mistakes, as long as you can communicate and be properly understood.
posted by motdiem2 at 12:30 PM on May 1, 2008
I'm still not able to speak the language properly except when I have no other choice which comes down to :
* Being questionnned at the border by security officials (I couldn't believe how fast it all came back)
* Total immersion
Also nthing that it's not a language issue, more an anxiety issue.
Two things were hard for me : although I understood everything, I forgot most of the words (I sorta solved this by keeping handy a very focused vocabulary list & listening to language learning tapes on the plane on my way there) the other thing was that people are expecting me to not make mistakes, and their reactions can be sort of rude when I make some (about every four words...) - I suppose I shouldn't care, but it is still hard to deal with.
The closest I got to feel good about it was when I was able to convince myself that I shouldn't consider it my native language, but just any language that I'm trying to speak, so it's not that bad to make mistakes, as long as you can communicate and be properly understood.
posted by motdiem2 at 12:30 PM on May 1, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm a native Spanish speaker and would be happy to email back and forth in Spanish. If you'd like, you can MeFi Mail me.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 7:40 AM on April 30, 2008