Help rescue my resume, is it worth $695?
April 16, 2008 10:58 AM Subscribe
Help me rescue my resume! So the resume writers from TheLadders.com want $695 to rewrite my resume, my sister who seems to get every job she applies for says I don't need to, I am not sure. Should I go to a resume service? Who?
So I perform well when marketing other products, not so much myself. I have a confusing resume and years ago spent $300 getting my resume rewritten, they clearly didn't "get" me and the result was a disaster that attained nothing.
My resume now has a bit more understandable stuff on it, and an MBA in progress so I want to make the most of it. I have been applying to maybe 10-15 jobs a week for the last 2 months and have gotten three interviews out of it. Naturally I would like more.
My sister (who has a masters in Org Behavior and does well on the corporate ladder) says I don't need to change much. A professor in the M.B.A. program said for someone in marketing my resume wasn't very "slick". Now TheLadders did a critique and had some problems, but wanted $695. So if it worth it? If not should I consider another service, who? I am naturally suspect of their critique because the whole point is for me to send them $695, so of course they won't say it is great. That being said I think they may have a few points...below is an example of a few things they said:
You need to restructure your career history by including a description of your position duties and roles that are currently in bullet form in a paragraph form under titles and reserve bullet format to list MAJOR contributions. Be consistent and present accomplishments for ALL positions. In your current document, nothing jumps out at the reader and it is imperative that you successfully highlight these achievements.
Most of your bullet points are task-based, not results-based. Task-based means it tells "what you did,” such as “Keep company up-to-date on latest promotional technology and events” This is clearly job description. Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did. Results-based items are what you need to have in bullet points.
The Times New Roman font you use is outdated as are other Courier-based fonts such as Rockwell, Garamond and others. Those types of fonts are used for “Plain Text” in MS Word for a reason - they ARE plain!
So I perform well when marketing other products, not so much myself. I have a confusing resume and years ago spent $300 getting my resume rewritten, they clearly didn't "get" me and the result was a disaster that attained nothing.
My resume now has a bit more understandable stuff on it, and an MBA in progress so I want to make the most of it. I have been applying to maybe 10-15 jobs a week for the last 2 months and have gotten three interviews out of it. Naturally I would like more.
My sister (who has a masters in Org Behavior and does well on the corporate ladder) says I don't need to change much. A professor in the M.B.A. program said for someone in marketing my resume wasn't very "slick". Now TheLadders did a critique and had some problems, but wanted $695. So if it worth it? If not should I consider another service, who? I am naturally suspect of their critique because the whole point is for me to send them $695, so of course they won't say it is great. That being said I think they may have a few points...below is an example of a few things they said:
You need to restructure your career history by including a description of your position duties and roles that are currently in bullet form in a paragraph form under titles and reserve bullet format to list MAJOR contributions. Be consistent and present accomplishments for ALL positions. In your current document, nothing jumps out at the reader and it is imperative that you successfully highlight these achievements.
Most of your bullet points are task-based, not results-based. Task-based means it tells "what you did,” such as “Keep company up-to-date on latest promotional technology and events” This is clearly job description. Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did. Results-based items are what you need to have in bullet points.
The Times New Roman font you use is outdated as are other Courier-based fonts such as Rockwell, Garamond and others. Those types of fonts are used for “Plain Text” in MS Word for a reason - they ARE plain!
$695 seems steep!
can your sister help you? can you look at her resume (since you seem to think hers is good) and apply a similar structure tailored to your own experience?
posted by netsirk at 11:06 AM on April 16, 2008
can your sister help you? can you look at her resume (since you seem to think hers is good) and apply a similar structure tailored to your own experience?
posted by netsirk at 11:06 AM on April 16, 2008
Don't pay anyone to revise your resume. You can get a book for 20 bucks and do it yourself. Resumes are not that hard.
(On their advice: the fonts thing is idiotic, but the rest makes sense, particularly highlighting strong results.)
posted by paultopia at 11:08 AM on April 16, 2008
(On their advice: the fonts thing is idiotic, but the rest makes sense, particularly highlighting strong results.)
posted by paultopia at 11:08 AM on April 16, 2008
why don't you post a link to it and we could offer up a few suggestions.
posted by lester at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by lester at 11:09 AM on April 16, 2008
You are in an MBA program and you're being told that you should pay an outside person to rewrite your resume? This is not, I surmise, a tier 1 school. Career services should be able to guide you. You should also seek more writing assistance from your sister, if she'll give it. Don't give the money out, the ladders is enough money anyway.
posted by parmanparman at 11:13 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by parmanparman at 11:13 AM on April 16, 2008
If you have an MBA in progress you should be able to get some free advice from your career counseling center. Before you go, the comment about results based instead of task based is important - review your resume with that in mind and do a rewrite. (that was terribly hard for me). I think the formatting comment is designed to separate the task based, job description from the accomplishments, which is what you want people to focus on. On the other hand, to my mind plain font = easy to read.
posted by metahawk at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by metahawk at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2008
I don't know much about your industry, but I'd be hesitant to pay $700 to anyone who recommends using wacky fonts on a resume.
posted by dersins at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by dersins at 11:15 AM on April 16, 2008 [2 favorites]
There are plenty of people who will be able to give you solid advice for free. Is your sister willing? How about a coworker or friend whose eye for detail you trust? Or go back to your professor and request a more detailed critique. Have them look at a sample cover letter, too - both of these should be crafted well.
If you can't find anyone in person or online to help you for free, I'll do it for $50! (or, on preview, I'll pitch in with my insights if you post a link to it online like lester suggests.)
By the way, Palatino is my resume font of choice. Times New Roman does look a little cheap.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:16 AM on April 16, 2008
If you can't find anyone in person or online to help you for free, I'll do it for $50! (or, on preview, I'll pitch in with my insights if you post a link to it online like lester suggests.)
By the way, Palatino is my resume font of choice. Times New Roman does look a little cheap.
posted by Metroid Baby at 11:16 AM on April 16, 2008
I've gotten just about every job I've every applied for, and I've always written my own resumes. It might be due the field I'm in, where the resume isn't really terribly important, but still. I think $695 is a bit much to fill out one sheet of paper for you. However, the critiques you've gotten from the company are actually pretty good (note that I haven't actually seen your resume), other than the font selection, which I don't think is really a very big deal. You want a nice font, but you don't want anything too out of the ordinary.
Anyway, this item is really a good rule to follow:
Task-based means it tells "what you did,” such as “Keep company up-to-date on latest promotional technology and events” This is clearly job description. Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did. Results-based items are what you need to have in bullet points.
Your resume isn't just a description of what you did at your various jobs, it's a description of how you made those companies better just by your working there. Figure out how to describe some of your experience in that way; it helps if you have quantifiable data on hand to support it. Say you implemented some sales technique that ended up increasing the office's sales by X%--mention that with the percentage in your resume, not just "oversaw sales technique implementation".
posted by LionIndex at 11:18 AM on April 16, 2008 [3 favorites]
Anyway, this item is really a good rule to follow:
Task-based means it tells "what you did,” such as “Keep company up-to-date on latest promotional technology and events” This is clearly job description. Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did. Results-based items are what you need to have in bullet points.
Your resume isn't just a description of what you did at your various jobs, it's a description of how you made those companies better just by your working there. Figure out how to describe some of your experience in that way; it helps if you have quantifiable data on hand to support it. Say you implemented some sales technique that ended up increasing the office's sales by X%--mention that with the percentage in your resume, not just "oversaw sales technique implementation".
posted by LionIndex at 11:18 AM on April 16, 2008 [3 favorites]
Put the $695 in the bank, ask your sis to take a look at your resume, and practice your interview skills, which are the most important part of the hiring process, IMO.
posted by misha at 11:19 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by misha at 11:19 AM on April 16, 2008
Seconding going to career services, they will do the same for free. Also ask around in your department, there might be professors who could have a look at it (plus that'll let them know you're looking for a job. Who knows who they know!).
posted by ddaavviidd at 11:20 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by ddaavviidd at 11:20 AM on April 16, 2008
Absolutely do NOT pay anyone $695 to rewrite your resume -- that's highway robbery. If your MBA program doesn't have a career services center that will help you with this, then I second the recommendations for a $20 book and some additional guidance from your sister or other trusted mentors. Specifically, if you know anyone who has had any experience with hiring in the past (even if it was just as an intern coordinator or something similar), I'd ask them to look at your resume, too -- they will have seen some very good resumes, and some very bad resumes, and should have some good tips. Basically, it's like anything else career-related -- you need to network.
posted by somanyamys at 11:22 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by somanyamys at 11:22 AM on April 16, 2008
The font question is really a side issue, but if you're worried about it, try putting the major headlines in thick sans-serif like Arial Black or Franklin Gothic Heavy, then putting your body text in something serifed, like the aforementioned Palatino. I also kind of like Bookman.
As for the content, consult with your sister, career services center, and/or buy a book. $700 for a couple of sheets of paper, for which you already have the information, is ridiculous.
posted by echo target at 11:23 AM on April 16, 2008
As for the content, consult with your sister, career services center, and/or buy a book. $700 for a couple of sheets of paper, for which you already have the information, is ridiculous.
posted by echo target at 11:23 AM on April 16, 2008
The best resume advice I ever received was in a little booklet that career services handed out at the University of Oregon. Find a similar career center and get such a booklet!
The overall advice from the ladders seems correct, and in the long run it would probably be well worth the $695. But you can get similar results for cheaper, if you put a little effort into it.
(One other thing: The advice I've received suggests you should make your name, address, phone number etc into a form of letterhead. Perhaps use a different font than the rest of the resume or whatever (don't make it too drastic of a distinction, however.) Then you can use this exact letterhead style on the cover letters or other documents you might be attaching to your resume. This way your documents all stay together and you look polished. This also seems like a good plan since you're in marketing anyway.)
posted by Happydaz at 11:23 AM on April 16, 2008
The overall advice from the ladders seems correct, and in the long run it would probably be well worth the $695. But you can get similar results for cheaper, if you put a little effort into it.
(One other thing: The advice I've received suggests you should make your name, address, phone number etc into a form of letterhead. Perhaps use a different font than the rest of the resume or whatever (don't make it too drastic of a distinction, however.) Then you can use this exact letterhead style on the cover letters or other documents you might be attaching to your resume. This way your documents all stay together and you look polished. This also seems like a good plan since you're in marketing anyway.)
posted by Happydaz at 11:23 AM on April 16, 2008
My wife, one of my friends, and others I know have used this company: http://branecompany.com/resume.aspx
Specifically they have e-mailed taunya at the-domain-above dot com.
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:31 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Specifically they have e-mailed taunya at the-domain-above dot com.
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:31 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
$700 for a couple of sheets of paper, for which you already have the information, is ridiculous.
Protip #2: ONE sheet of paper. You better be a leader in your field before you start filling out two page resumes.
My resume book recommendation would be Resumes That Knock 'em Dead; can't think of the author offhand, but he's got a whole series of books. The resume book has before and after examples and descriptions of different "styles" of resumes for people at different points in their careers or with issues they need their resume to get around.
posted by LionIndex at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2008
Protip #2: ONE sheet of paper. You better be a leader in your field before you start filling out two page resumes.
My resume book recommendation would be Resumes That Knock 'em Dead; can't think of the author offhand, but he's got a whole series of books. The resume book has before and after examples and descriptions of different "styles" of resumes for people at different points in their careers or with issues they need their resume to get around.
posted by LionIndex at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2008
Oh, and I should have said it was less that $100 for a normal, one page resume. And they were all very satisified with the results.
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by jeffamaphone at 11:32 AM on April 16, 2008
Get yourself a resume book or two to work on the generalities such as layout, language, etc. Have your sister and your career guidance office help and critique the resume. The one place in which a service can help is in setting the document up to make it past the bots. So many jobs these days are essentially reviewed by computers first to toss obviously ineligible candidates. Sometimes instead it is a low level clerk who might as well be a bot. You want to be able to get past these. Your guidance office person should be able to help here for a lot less than $695 though.
posted by caddis at 11:34 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by caddis at 11:34 AM on April 16, 2008
There's no way on earth a résumé service is worth that amount of money unless it includes other services like doing personalized job searches for you and interview coaching.
The way I've improved my résumé is by collecting lots of samples from my field and observing the language and style used in the best ones. Some are from friends, some are from people interviewed at places I've worked, and some are from people I don't know who have great reputations and are successful and have posted a résumé online. It sounds like you have a lot of valuable personal feedback already. I completely agree with using results-based vs task-based information in your bullets. That alone will improve your résumé significantly.
I've also used some of the formatting advice offered here -- it's quite simple but very effective.
The most valuable thing that people can offer you other than advice on how to present information is copyediting and proofreading. If you are going to hire someone, consider a freelance copyeditor who can help you find the most concise language and any errors. If you really want to get slick, a freelance graphic designer would be able to do really elegant things with layout that the advice above doesn't cover. I've seen a few professionally designed résumés and they are impressive. They certainly cost less than nearly $700 to produce. Good luck!
posted by melissa may at 11:35 AM on April 16, 2008
The way I've improved my résumé is by collecting lots of samples from my field and observing the language and style used in the best ones. Some are from friends, some are from people interviewed at places I've worked, and some are from people I don't know who have great reputations and are successful and have posted a résumé online. It sounds like you have a lot of valuable personal feedback already. I completely agree with using results-based vs task-based information in your bullets. That alone will improve your résumé significantly.
I've also used some of the formatting advice offered here -- it's quite simple but very effective.
The most valuable thing that people can offer you other than advice on how to present information is copyediting and proofreading. If you are going to hire someone, consider a freelance copyeditor who can help you find the most concise language and any errors. If you really want to get slick, a freelance graphic designer would be able to do really elegant things with layout that the advice above doesn't cover. I've seen a few professionally designed résumés and they are impressive. They certainly cost less than nearly $700 to produce. Good luck!
posted by melissa may at 11:35 AM on April 16, 2008
do not pay that much. rip off. if you're getting an mba, your school probably has a career services office. ask them to look at your resume. or have your sister help you.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 11:39 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by misanthropicsarah at 11:39 AM on April 16, 2008
I have never heard of paying someone $300 to rewrite your resume, let alone $695. That sounds crazy to me. We're talking about a few paragraphs, tops, right?
I would definitely not pay theladders.com a dime, just based on their nonsensical font advice.
The fonts they mention have almost nothing in common, other than being serif fonts, they most definitely aren't "Courier-based" (Courier is a completely unrelated font based on typewriter printing), and Plain Text, by definition, doesn't let you assign a font at all. Garamond would be a perfectly acceptable, classy choice for a resume.
If you want to toss your money at someone, buy yourself a Mac and whip something up using the built-in resume templates in Pages.
posted by designbot at 11:39 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
I would definitely not pay theladders.com a dime, just based on their nonsensical font advice.
The fonts they mention have almost nothing in common, other than being serif fonts, they most definitely aren't "Courier-based" (Courier is a completely unrelated font based on typewriter printing), and Plain Text, by definition, doesn't let you assign a font at all. Garamond would be a perfectly acceptable, classy choice for a resume.
If you want to toss your money at someone, buy yourself a Mac and whip something up using the built-in resume templates in Pages.
posted by designbot at 11:39 AM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
You're already paying more than $700 for your MBA program, right? Take advantage of the career center at your school, where you should be able to get a thorough resume critique and other sample resumes to look at.
posted by andrewraff at 11:41 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by andrewraff at 11:41 AM on April 16, 2008
oh, and also, don't use a stupid font. there's nothing wrong with TNR or Arial. you want it to be easy to read.
posted by misanthropicsarah at 11:41 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by misanthropicsarah at 11:41 AM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: I am working on posting an anonymous version of the resume.
Also, yes, it is a tier one school. Unfortunately career services mostly focuses on graduating students and full-time students. Additionally I don't think they get me. I am more the creative guy, not going into a career in finance and I think that confuses them.
posted by UMDirector at 11:59 AM on April 16, 2008
Also, yes, it is a tier one school. Unfortunately career services mostly focuses on graduating students and full-time students. Additionally I don't think they get me. I am more the creative guy, not going into a career in finance and I think that confuses them.
posted by UMDirector at 11:59 AM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: Okay I posted the resume as two flickr photos...guess you will need to DL to be able to read it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25792975@N08/
posted by UMDirector at 12:03 PM on April 16, 2008
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25792975@N08/
posted by UMDirector at 12:03 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: I should also mention that my resume was at one point, recently, only one page. I felt as if I was leaving important things off. Basically career services cut off my experience in events at the theme park which was actually a huge part of a lot of marketing stuff, including events for non-profits and the like so I put it back on.
To be a bit clearer regarding my sister...she has looked at my resume and helped me. This is a revised version...she just doesn't seem to think it needs anymore help.
posted by UMDirector at 12:06 PM on April 16, 2008
To be a bit clearer regarding my sister...she has looked at my resume and helped me. This is a revised version...she just doesn't seem to think it needs anymore help.
posted by UMDirector at 12:06 PM on April 16, 2008
Best answer: Please don't pay $695 to someone who says that Garamond is a Courier-based font. They didn't have time machines in the 1500s.
posted by kidbritish at 12:16 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by kidbritish at 12:16 PM on April 16, 2008
Best answer: It does need work. Here is some advice.
Treat the resume as real estate where the farther away from the top you are, the less the value. The second page is worth almost nothing. Thus the single most important thing about you should be the very first line. Every single word counts.
Right now you have "Director committed to creative solutions that increase effectiveness, efficiency, client satisfaction, and financial success.... " which, aside from being a big chunk of text that is hard to parse at a glance, is mostly fluff. Anyone could say these things. Of course you are committed to success, who wouldn't be?
All candidates for all jobs are going to claim they are focused, have exceptional communication skills, are experienced leaders, blah blah blah. Therefore these claims have zero value in differentiating you from the pack. Instead, say what you actually did. Think up your biggest success stories and feature them prominently. Include numbers. How many clients did you work with, how many press releases did you draft, how much did you increase revenue by? Verb tenses should be past, not present, because you are not describing your job duties, you are describing your accomplishments.
Definitely pare it down to one page. Trim the work experience; two or three short bullets per job is probably enough. You don't have to explain the details - these are like newspaper headlines, you will fill in the story in the job interview.
The thing is you have lots of great experience. You started your own company -- you're an entrepreneur! But if I wanted to know more about you, I would rather see details about how successful this company was than see details about what type of products you came up with - do you see what I mean?
There are tons of (free or inexpensive) resources out there that can help you revise your presentation and design -- give them a try.
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:44 PM on April 16, 2008 [7 favorites]
Treat the resume as real estate where the farther away from the top you are, the less the value. The second page is worth almost nothing. Thus the single most important thing about you should be the very first line. Every single word counts.
Right now you have "Director committed to creative solutions that increase effectiveness, efficiency, client satisfaction, and financial success.... " which, aside from being a big chunk of text that is hard to parse at a glance, is mostly fluff. Anyone could say these things. Of course you are committed to success, who wouldn't be?
All candidates for all jobs are going to claim they are focused, have exceptional communication skills, are experienced leaders, blah blah blah. Therefore these claims have zero value in differentiating you from the pack. Instead, say what you actually did. Think up your biggest success stories and feature them prominently. Include numbers. How many clients did you work with, how many press releases did you draft, how much did you increase revenue by? Verb tenses should be past, not present, because you are not describing your job duties, you are describing your accomplishments.
Definitely pare it down to one page. Trim the work experience; two or three short bullets per job is probably enough. You don't have to explain the details - these are like newspaper headlines, you will fill in the story in the job interview.
The thing is you have lots of great experience. You started your own company -- you're an entrepreneur! But if I wanted to know more about you, I would rather see details about how successful this company was than see details about what type of products you came up with - do you see what I mean?
There are tons of (free or inexpensive) resources out there that can help you revise your presentation and design -- give them a try.
posted by PercussivePaul at 12:44 PM on April 16, 2008 [7 favorites]
No offense to LionIndex et al., but feel free to ignore the "protip" regarding one-page resumes. I'm a recruiter; I've looked at tens of thousands of resumes and if you're beyond entry level, the odds are that your resume will need more than one page to do you justice.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 12:57 PM on April 16, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by sevenyearlurk at 12:57 PM on April 16, 2008 [6 favorites]
No offense taken, but when we've looked at applicants, the ones that send in quality one-pagers almost invariably are the better candidates. But, I do think the one-page rule may be getting a little dated with most resumes being submitted electronically rather than by fax or mail. Still, I don't think more necessarily equals better when it comes to resumes, and a second page should be completely full of important stuff that needs to mentioned rather than padding just to make yourself feel like you've covered all the bases.
posted by LionIndex at 1:09 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by LionIndex at 1:09 PM on April 16, 2008
Best answer: My wife did the same resume review and got two of those paragraphs you pasted here. We didn't take them up on it and I'm glad we didn't. Anyone can copy and paste well known ground rules -- the skill is in applying them and there's no evidence that The Ladders' resume writing partners have that.
On a personal note I hate this "Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did." I do it myself these days but I hate it when I read a resume that has this. It's an irrelevant and artificial style for many industries I feel and makes reviewing CVs an even more tedious task.
posted by NailsTheCat at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2008
On a personal note I hate this "Results-based represents what was ACHIEVED as a RESULT of what you did." I do it myself these days but I hate it when I read a resume that has this. It's an irrelevant and artificial style for many industries I feel and makes reviewing CVs an even more tedious task.
posted by NailsTheCat at 1:29 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: So I if I am correct one way to look at this page issue is that two pages is a possible symptom of a lack of a strong candidate due to such things as perhaps disorganization, etc but a symptom does not necessarily mean a disease. So if the resume is tight and well written a 2nd page could be okay?
posted by UMDirector at 1:30 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by UMDirector at 1:30 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: I also have a hard time sometimes talking about my accomplishments. That is to say I have done so many varied things at my jobs, I have a hard time narrowing it down to those bullet points and saying what exactly "I" accomplished. I have contributed to much, but not always been in charge. Also my current job has not executed a number of my plans due to cash issues. So I have done a lot of brand work, targeting and promotions but almost none of it has been able to be executed. Not sure how to approach that because I have no "Results".
posted by UMDirector at 1:40 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by UMDirector at 1:40 PM on April 16, 2008
Please don't pay $695 to someone who says that Garamond is a Courier-based font. They didn't have time machines in the 1500s.
+1, this indicates a real lack of knowledge. If you read that line they even seem to suggest that times new roman is a "courier-based" font.
posted by advil at 1:41 PM on April 16, 2008
+1, this indicates a real lack of knowledge. If you read that line they even seem to suggest that times new roman is a "courier-based" font.
posted by advil at 1:41 PM on April 16, 2008
I recommend: getting rid of the summary section completely, posting your education first - before work history, and keeping everything on one page. Lots of employers are looking for a candidate with an MBA, so you should put that up front to make sure your resume ends up in the right pile.
Also, you said that the theme parks section tells a lot about your marketing background, but I don't get that from what you've written. It sounds more operational - like you were an events coordinator. Maybe there is a way to talk about how these events were used as marketing opportunities?
posted by jrichards at 1:44 PM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, you said that the theme parks section tells a lot about your marketing background, but I don't get that from what you've written. It sounds more operational - like you were an events coordinator. Maybe there is a way to talk about how these events were used as marketing opportunities?
posted by jrichards at 1:44 PM on April 16, 2008 [1 favorite]
puercussive paul gives good advice and, as I am also a recruiter, sevenyearlurk is right on. what matters is getting the good information easily accessible. If it takes a page and a quarter then so be it. Your resume will frequently be viewed on a computer screen anyway, and that will always change things. don't go messing with margins and funky font sizes just to fit things in. just make sure that every.single.thing you put on your resume is important. my colleagues and i were just laughing today at a resume that included hobbies such as chess club, church choir etc. definitely info that is useless (at least in my field of recruiting!!). also i nth the advice to make it as quantitative as possible, avoiding qualitative, fluff, and job description lingo as much as possible. many great resumes that cross my desk are skills/accomplishment based these days, where work history is secondary (further down the page) than a well written list of quantitative, demonstrable qualities and results.
posted by Soulbee at 1:45 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by Soulbee at 1:45 PM on April 16, 2008
So I if I am correct one way to look at this page issue is that two pages is a possible symptom of a lack of a strong candidate due to such things as perhaps disorganization, etc but a symptom does not necessarily mean a disease. So if the resume is tight and well written a 2nd page could be okay?
That's pretty much my feeling on it, but I don't know how widespread that opinion is. I just don't think you want someone to read it and then wonder "why did they need to go to two pages?" As I mentioned before, that might just be a holdover from the fax era clogging my brain.
posted by LionIndex at 1:45 PM on April 16, 2008
That's pretty much my feeling on it, but I don't know how widespread that opinion is. I just don't think you want someone to read it and then wonder "why did they need to go to two pages?" As I mentioned before, that might just be a holdover from the fax era clogging my brain.
posted by LionIndex at 1:45 PM on April 16, 2008
For the reasons indicated above, this service does not sound like the right one for you. However, depending on how muddled your resume is and how competitive your field is, it may make sense to hire someone to rewrite your resume and it may, indeed, cost that much.
That's because it can take a while to tease information out. I don't mean that they're working with your existing resume -- I mean that someone interviews you about your experience and works hard to get the real meat of your story. It means that they review resumes and standards for your field of work and the positions you're targeting. It means they provide a couple of drafts and a finalized version.
Your MBA careers office may be able to help. It depends on the school. Some schools have careers people with no real industry experience -- they don't know how to pitch someone who's on a different playing field. But do pay them a visit to see what they can tell you.
In the meantime, consider whether people in your network can help you with the resume. Your sister is an obvious source. But perhaps there are past managers or superstars who can help you figure out what to do. Tap them out before paying anyone.
posted by acoutu at 1:52 PM on April 16, 2008
That's because it can take a while to tease information out. I don't mean that they're working with your existing resume -- I mean that someone interviews you about your experience and works hard to get the real meat of your story. It means that they review resumes and standards for your field of work and the positions you're targeting. It means they provide a couple of drafts and a finalized version.
Your MBA careers office may be able to help. It depends on the school. Some schools have careers people with no real industry experience -- they don't know how to pitch someone who's on a different playing field. But do pay them a visit to see what they can tell you.
In the meantime, consider whether people in your network can help you with the resume. Your sister is an obvious source. But perhaps there are past managers or superstars who can help you figure out what to do. Tap them out before paying anyone.
posted by acoutu at 1:52 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: 1) Anyone else have any opinion on putting education first? I have rarely seen it but is interesting...
2) If I am really interested in a job is it worth mailing a nice printed version as well as email?
posted by UMDirector at 1:52 PM on April 16, 2008
2) If I am really interested in a job is it worth mailing a nice printed version as well as email?
posted by UMDirector at 1:52 PM on April 16, 2008
You better be a leader in your field before you start filling out two page resumes.
I disagree completely.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:08 PM on April 16, 2008
I disagree completely.
posted by KokuRyu at 2:08 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: KokuRyu - Could you explain why you disagree? I am guessing you feel strongly about this based on the "completely".
posted by UMDirector at 2:15 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by UMDirector at 2:15 PM on April 16, 2008
2nding ignoring the one-page resume advice. I'm in the second of two careers and though unrelated, I was fairly accomplished in the first. There's no way I could fit all the information from two careers on one page. I've gotten my last three jobs using a two-pager.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 2:21 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 2:21 PM on April 16, 2008
putting education first?
I am of the opinion you shouldn't, unless (perhaps) it's more relevant to the position than your current position career.
mailing a nice printed version as well as email?
It can't hurt -- no one will reject you because you did so. (Although I think it's of little benefit.)
You better be a leader in your field before you start filling out two page resumes.
N'thing disagreement. Perhaps if you're 5 years out of college but once you've got 15 years or so of working experience under your belt you have to account for all your positions which can eat up page space. You mustn't leave gaps in your resume so you often have little choice.
Now... if you can fit it on one page then great. But people *will* read the whole resume if you catch their interest on page 1 so it's better that you haven't edited out a choice nugget of experience that might have made the difference between landing on the interview rather than the refection pile.
posted by NailsTheCat at 2:24 PM on April 16, 2008
I am of the opinion you shouldn't, unless (perhaps) it's more relevant to the position than your current position career.
mailing a nice printed version as well as email?
It can't hurt -- no one will reject you because you did so. (Although I think it's of little benefit.)
You better be a leader in your field before you start filling out two page resumes.
N'thing disagreement. Perhaps if you're 5 years out of college but once you've got 15 years or so of working experience under your belt you have to account for all your positions which can eat up page space. You mustn't leave gaps in your resume so you often have little choice.
Now... if you can fit it on one page then great. But people *will* read the whole resume if you catch their interest on page 1 so it's better that you haven't edited out a choice nugget of experience that might have made the difference between landing on the interview rather than the refection pile.
posted by NailsTheCat at 2:24 PM on April 16, 2008
To be a bit clearer regarding my sister...she has looked at my resume and helped me. This is a revised version...she just doesn't seem to think it needs anymore help.
Well, unless TheLadders.com folks can offer some convincing metric that says they've got better track record than your sister who "seems to get every job she applies for," I'd say she's at least as good an authority.
The real authority you should check with, if you should be checking with any authority at all, is someone who hires for the kind of positions you're likely to apply for. At least three of these someones, so you can triangulate on conflicting advice, and more if possible.
Your sister sounds like she might be one of these people, or might know some of them. So, trust her, and/or ask her if she knows people who specifically hire for the kind of position you're likely to gun for and ask for their feedback.
You might also try talking to your career center, alumni center, and your business profs and ask them for help finding these people.
They didn't have time machines in the 1500s.
Well, not yet, anyway.
posted by namespan at 2:35 PM on April 16, 2008
Well, unless TheLadders.com folks can offer some convincing metric that says they've got better track record than your sister who "seems to get every job she applies for," I'd say she's at least as good an authority.
The real authority you should check with, if you should be checking with any authority at all, is someone who hires for the kind of positions you're likely to apply for. At least three of these someones, so you can triangulate on conflicting advice, and more if possible.
Your sister sounds like she might be one of these people, or might know some of them. So, trust her, and/or ask her if she knows people who specifically hire for the kind of position you're likely to gun for and ask for their feedback.
You might also try talking to your career center, alumni center, and your business profs and ask them for help finding these people.
They didn't have time machines in the 1500s.
Well, not yet, anyway.
posted by namespan at 2:35 PM on April 16, 2008
Perhaps if you're 5 years out of college but once you've got 15 years or so of working experience under your belt you have to account for all your positions which can eat up page space. You mustn't leave gaps in your resume so you often have little choice.
Well, that's basically where I disagree. I don't think you need to cover every single position you've ever had--I certainly don't--and I don't see the process of writing a resume as listing everything you've ever done, but rather distilling it all into the *important* things you've done. If I were to write my resume today, I'd leave my first two jobs out of school off of it since what I did in my subsequent employment basically repeated that experience, and then built upon it, and in my case, it won't affect me negatively at all but I can understand that it's different for some people. I don't see the resume as a list of everything I've ever done; I see it more as an argument for why I should be hired.
posted by LionIndex at 2:44 PM on April 16, 2008
Well, that's basically where I disagree. I don't think you need to cover every single position you've ever had--I certainly don't--and I don't see the process of writing a resume as listing everything you've ever done, but rather distilling it all into the *important* things you've done. If I were to write my resume today, I'd leave my first two jobs out of school off of it since what I did in my subsequent employment basically repeated that experience, and then built upon it, and in my case, it won't affect me negatively at all but I can understand that it's different for some people. I don't see the resume as a list of everything I've ever done; I see it more as an argument for why I should be hired.
posted by LionIndex at 2:44 PM on April 16, 2008
but rather distilling it all into the *important* things you've done.
I agree with you there. And missing off your first few jobs is fine with me too. But
- 1996 - 1999 My first relevant job
- 2002 - 2003 Another relevant job
is what I'm (unclearly) referring to. It's subjective of course but a gap such as that would be a (minor) negative point for me.
posted by NailsTheCat at 2:57 PM on April 16, 2008
I agree with you there. And missing off your first few jobs is fine with me too. But
- 1996 - 1999 My first relevant job
- 2002 - 2003 Another relevant job
is what I'm (unclearly) referring to. It's subjective of course but a gap such as that would be a (minor) negative point for me.
posted by NailsTheCat at 2:57 PM on April 16, 2008
I'd even make an argument for the standard fonts these days. More and more organizations are going to an electronic-only submission in which they will demand classic MSWord.doc. They might possibly accept rtf and pdf as a backup, but I wouldn't count on it. Your best hope of avoiding undesired font substitutions that mess up your carefully composed and typeset paragraphs is to stick to the small set of core fonts. I bitch about MSWord at the drop of a hat, but the reality is that the majority of HR departments who will be handling your electronic submission are running the previous version of MSOffice on the previous version of MSWin.
The only thing wrong with Times IMO is that as one of the handful of core postscript fonts and then a decade of MSOffice default, it has the same sort of connotations of institutional sameness that resulted from a lifetime of seeing Helvetica. I won't say that Times is as brilliant as Helvetica, but Times has a very solid design for the range of printed body text from about 8-14 pt. To me, Times larger than 14 point looks ugly, but you probably shouldn't have anything larger than 14 point on your resume anyway.
Page length is one of those things that is specific to the field, market, and job. And I was told to tailor my resume to the job and the market. I had a one-pager for tech jobs, and a two-pager for higher ed positions that included publication and teaching highlights, (and my full vita is even longer.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 3:05 PM on April 16, 2008
The only thing wrong with Times IMO is that as one of the handful of core postscript fonts and then a decade of MSOffice default, it has the same sort of connotations of institutional sameness that resulted from a lifetime of seeing Helvetica. I won't say that Times is as brilliant as Helvetica, but Times has a very solid design for the range of printed body text from about 8-14 pt. To me, Times larger than 14 point looks ugly, but you probably shouldn't have anything larger than 14 point on your resume anyway.
Page length is one of those things that is specific to the field, market, and job. And I was told to tailor my resume to the job and the market. I had a one-pager for tech jobs, and a two-pager for higher ed positions that included publication and teaching highlights, (and my full vita is even longer.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 3:05 PM on April 16, 2008
it might depend on the industry, but in software/web development my resume is 4 pages or so, and I haven't seen a one-pager from anyone in years.
Also, when I'm interviewing people, I go out of my way to mention or ask about something near the end of the resume. There's often interesting stuff back there, and plus it's my way of letting them know I paid attention and didn't just skim the first page.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:07 PM on April 16, 2008
Also, when I'm interviewing people, I go out of my way to mention or ask about something near the end of the resume. There's often interesting stuff back there, and plus it's my way of letting them know I paid attention and didn't just skim the first page.
posted by drjimmy11 at 3:07 PM on April 16, 2008
And, oh yes. I think I landed my current position with a two-pager downgraded into ugly MSWord and TNR.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 3:14 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by KirkJobSluder at 3:14 PM on April 16, 2008
Just for reference, I work in architecture, and at least in my area, jobs are still primarily listed in the paper on Sundays and not many other places. The AIA also has a job board that I can look at for openings, and they'll hold a copy of my resume on file in a big binder full of resumes that employers can look through. When placed in that binder, or sent over the fax machine in response to a classified ad, a multi-page resume looks really silly, and I think that might be the source for a lot of my prejudice against more than a page. But, that's my field. It's quite easy to see how software or other fields would be perfectly fine or even require more than a single page, but architecture is still pretty old skool in a lot of ways. Basically, the resume lets firms know I have some experience, but the interview and reviewing my examples of past work really ends up getting me the job.
posted by LionIndex at 3:42 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by LionIndex at 3:42 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: For what it's worth I am looking for something in technology, entertainment industry or a non-profit. I know its a pretty wide spread but that is where my experiences and interests are.
posted by UMDirector at 3:52 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by UMDirector at 3:52 PM on April 16, 2008
Response by poster: This has been awesome so far, BTW. This is why I signed up for metafilter 3 years ago! Incredible.
posted by UMDirector at 3:53 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by UMDirector at 3:53 PM on April 16, 2008
Honestly, I wouldn't hire ANYONE with an MBA that couldn't write their own resume.
My resume is 4 pages, and I've been advised by some employers that making it longer wouldn't hurt. You might want both a 1 pager and a full-length resume (like a CV).
posted by blue_beetle at 5:48 PM on April 16, 2008
My resume is 4 pages, and I've been advised by some employers that making it longer wouldn't hurt. You might want both a 1 pager and a full-length resume (like a CV).
posted by blue_beetle at 5:48 PM on April 16, 2008
I came across this free resume help and resume writing course today on a blog. I haven't used it and can't vouch for its effectiveness, but since it is free, it might be worth a try.
I have no connection to the site or the blog I found it on.
posted by PinkButterfly at 6:11 PM on April 16, 2008
I have no connection to the site or the blog I found it on.
posted by PinkButterfly at 6:11 PM on April 16, 2008
As others have said, $695 for a resume is a rip off. sounds like they read a generic CV how-to book.
On the 1 or 2 page discussion, as a hiring manager I would not write off anyone with a 2+ page CV - but what is on the CV should substantiate the application and not be padding. The point about out of date chess club membership is spot on. What made you attractive in your first job out of college is not what makes you attractive with 10 years under your belt.
Also a good point is using a standard Word font, nothing special that means your formatting gets messed with on another PC, but they are talking rot in their font comments.
Good luck with the job hunting.
posted by arcticseal at 7:29 AM on April 17, 2008
On the 1 or 2 page discussion, as a hiring manager I would not write off anyone with a 2+ page CV - but what is on the CV should substantiate the application and not be padding. The point about out of date chess club membership is spot on. What made you attractive in your first job out of college is not what makes you attractive with 10 years under your belt.
Also a good point is using a standard Word font, nothing special that means your formatting gets messed with on another PC, but they are talking rot in their font comments.
Good luck with the job hunting.
posted by arcticseal at 7:29 AM on April 17, 2008
How timely. Just a few days ago I took theladders up on their free resume critique. They suggested I not use the screen- and print-friendly Georgia font and switch to 10 pt. generic Arial because that's the "fastest read" font. I disagree--serif fonts are usually easier to read when used in body copy (according to the ancient tome by Rudolf Flesch) and, more importantly, why the heck would I want to look like everyone else?!
They did give a few good points that I'll remember when rewriting my resume, but the above piece of advice just sticks in my craw. It also seems to be at odds with the advice given to the original poster. And for what it's worth, I would have used Garamond if I didn't like Georgia a teensy bit more.
posted by Tacodog at 2:59 PM on April 17, 2008
They did give a few good points that I'll remember when rewriting my resume, but the above piece of advice just sticks in my craw. It also seems to be at odds with the advice given to the original poster. And for what it's worth, I would have used Garamond if I didn't like Georgia a teensy bit more.
posted by Tacodog at 2:59 PM on April 17, 2008
So, UMD,
What was the outcome of all of this? I came to MeFi as the result of a search for information on this very subject...the Ladders sent me the same form letter about my resume, which has me dismayed.
Like you, I am a creative individual with a "non-linear" career resume that some people don't get. I've had zero hits on the Ladders so I suspect I'm doing something wrong and am looking for meaningful advice/assistance in this regard. I hope this is all working out for you, best of luck and success!
posted by DCRod at 3:12 PM on June 9, 2008
What was the outcome of all of this? I came to MeFi as the result of a search for information on this very subject...the Ladders sent me the same form letter about my resume, which has me dismayed.
Like you, I am a creative individual with a "non-linear" career resume that some people don't get. I've had zero hits on the Ladders so I suspect I'm doing something wrong and am looking for meaningful advice/assistance in this regard. I hope this is all working out for you, best of luck and success!
posted by DCRod at 3:12 PM on June 9, 2008
Beware of the resume service on the Ladders. It all starts with a resume critique -- which will look impressive, until you realize that 95% is the same thing that everyone else receives... see this link (http://www.manager-tools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=23534) for a reprint of the 95% duplication. Yes, I should have known better but I made a very expensive mistake and I won't do it ever again.
You'll then receive a worksheet to provide the resume writers with material. This worksheet is so bush-league, words can not do justice to how amateur and unprofessional this process is:
1. The resume critique will rip you to shreds (which is okay) -- they'll pepper the critique and future correspondence with smileys so not to hurt anyone's feelings.
2. The worksheet they send will say "Please email your old resume with your completed worksheet." Huh, don't you already have it? How did you do the critique then?
3. The worksheet will also say, "so I have everything from you in one email". Huh? You cannot attach multiple documents from the Ladders website. Clients cannot send everything in one email!
4. The worksheet might as well have been developed in crayon. There is such a mix of font sizes, styles, highlighting, tabs, and paragraph marks that it makes me car sick just trying to work with it. One would think that for $600+ that this organization could put together a form with data entry fields and a consistent flow of text.
5. After you send the worksheet in, they will send you follow-up questions. They make it seem like the questions are custom tailored to your worksheet responses. They're not... the follow up questions are the same questions they send to all their clients.
When you receive your resume, you'll find that you wrote it. Yep... about 95% of the text on your $600+ resume is taken directly from: your old resume (which mind you was ripped to shreds during the resume critique), your worksheet, and your responses to the phony "follow-up" questions.
Marc Cenedella has quite a racket going... dupe people on a job search into spending over $600 for the privilege re-writing their OWN resume. To be fair, the website appears to be honest and provide a valuable service -- but the resume writing aspect of The Ladders is nothing but a scam!
posted by MGoBlue0970 at 2:43 PM on September 15, 2008
You'll then receive a worksheet to provide the resume writers with material. This worksheet is so bush-league, words can not do justice to how amateur and unprofessional this process is:
1. The resume critique will rip you to shreds (which is okay) -- they'll pepper the critique and future correspondence with smileys so not to hurt anyone's feelings.
2. The worksheet they send will say "Please email your old resume with your completed worksheet." Huh, don't you already have it? How did you do the critique then?
3. The worksheet will also say, "so I have everything from you in one email". Huh? You cannot attach multiple documents from the Ladders website. Clients cannot send everything in one email!
4. The worksheet might as well have been developed in crayon. There is such a mix of font sizes, styles, highlighting, tabs, and paragraph marks that it makes me car sick just trying to work with it. One would think that for $600+ that this organization could put together a form with data entry fields and a consistent flow of text.
5. After you send the worksheet in, they will send you follow-up questions. They make it seem like the questions are custom tailored to your worksheet responses. They're not... the follow up questions are the same questions they send to all their clients.
When you receive your resume, you'll find that you wrote it. Yep... about 95% of the text on your $600+ resume is taken directly from: your old resume (which mind you was ripped to shreds during the resume critique), your worksheet, and your responses to the phony "follow-up" questions.
Marc Cenedella has quite a racket going... dupe people on a job search into spending over $600 for the privilege re-writing their OWN resume. To be fair, the website appears to be honest and provide a valuable service -- but the resume writing aspect of The Ladders is nothing but a scam!
posted by MGoBlue0970 at 2:43 PM on September 15, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xil at 11:04 AM on April 16, 2008