I just want to use the picture. Please don't sue!!!

April 3, 2008 5:58 PM

My sister and I want to make t-shirts ( and maybe other items) to sale for an upcoming concert. If we use images that we find online what kind of copyright issues could we face? Is there a way around them thats quick and legal?

The concert I want to make the shirts for is in the middle of May. We are anxious to get it started but don't know how to handle the issue of image copyrights.
We will not be starting any kind of business beyond making and selling shirts and therefore have no other use for the images. I was told using images you search for on google is fair game. Is this true? If we use images that we find online what kind of copyright issues could we face and is there a way around them thats quick and legal?
Thanks so much!

posted by grablife365 to Clothing, Beauty, & Fashion (13 answers total)

Using images you find with Google is not fair game. Not at all. Google will find a lot of my images, and I hold the copyright on those. I have more than once found my images being used without my permission. One band planned to use a photo of mine for a CD cover and t-shirts. Without my permission. Needless to say, I asked them to stop using the image, and to remove it from their website, where it was used in a mockup CD cover.

You must get permission from the creator/copyright holder. Sometimes this can cost, sometimes it can be granted at no charge, depending on the person.

Some images are in the public domain, like photos owned by the US Federal Government, or images old enough for the copyright to have expired. But don't assume anything.

You might also be able to hire a local designer, or even get a college student to do your design for cheap or free.

Oh, and to give you an idea about the band that wanted to use my image: I told them I was more than willing to work with them in allowing them to use my image. I sent them an email, asking them to detail what their use would be, and I would give them a price based on that. My intention was to grant them limited rights for a token fee of $100, just to help them out. They never even responded, which told me they didn't want the hassle of trying to do things right.

There are also plenty of options for free images. My favorite is www.sxc.hu. Open a free account and you will probably find something that works.

Please, please, please, don't take someone's work without permission. Even if you don't get caught, it's just not right.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 6:08 PM on April 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Images you search for on google are definitely not fair game -- they're as susceptible to copyrights as any other image.
posted by flatluigi at 6:10 PM on April 3, 2008

First of all, no, there is no "Google defense" for using copyrighted images, particularly on a commercial item like a T-shirt. If you want to use an image, you have to have the creator's permission (either granted directly, or indirectly via a Creative Commons license).

Secondly, the surest way to get kicked out of a concert venue, or even just the parking lot, is to try to sell stuff. Additionally, stuff that seems like it might be counterfeit merchandise (featuring images of the artist, for example) is likely to draw the attention of the police.
posted by jjg at 6:13 PM on April 3, 2008

My recommendation would be to explore the Creative Commons for images to use -- you can find many that are licensed for commercial usage and for adaption that you can use if you just provide attribution. I'd still make sure to ask for permission, but I'm pretty sure you'd get it.

Here's the official search for it; if you check both of the boxes at the top and choose to search flickr you should be able to find something.
posted by flatluigi at 6:16 PM on April 3, 2008

Secondly, the surest way to get kicked out of a concert venue, or even just the parking lot, is to try to sell stuff. Additionally, stuff that seems like it might be counterfeit merchandise (featuring images of the artist, for example) is likely to draw the attention of the police.

Yeah, I was coming in here to say that, too. It's not clear from your question if you want to sell t-shirts of the band, or just cool unrelated t-shirts. Either way, there are incredibly insane restrictions on who can sell what at a venue. Probably better to come up with a new business idea, I'm afraid.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:18 PM on April 3, 2008

IANAL but in addition to copyright issues, you also need to pay attention to trademark infringment - you can't use other people's logos, the name of the band (if it is unique), and perhaps not the name of the specific tour for commercial purposes (and selling a t-shirt is a commercial purpose whether or not you make a profit) without permission. You also shouldn't use the image of a famous person for commercial purposes, even if you drew the picture yourself and so owned the copyright.
posted by metahawk at 6:23 PM on April 3, 2008

Basically, you create the art yourselves, thus you own the copyright on the art.
Secondly, don't use trademarks without permission. (So if you're going to sell t-shirts with the band's logo or branding, you'll need their ok, even though it's your art)

Cover those two points and you're in the clear.

Modifying art beyond recognition is also an option, though technically can be a copyright violation - but if it really is beyond recognition by anyone, and you don't mention your sources, then it's pretty much a moot point.

If you want to find free stuff, it pretty much has to state that it is public domain or royalty-free for you to be in the clear, and even then, it has to be a reputable site with some authority over the image saying that it is royalty free, because there is no shortage of people like those who incorrectly advised you, incorrectly saying on webpages "these images here are royalty free", but saying it doesn't make it so - only the rightsholder has the authority to do that.
posted by -harlequin- at 6:23 PM on April 3, 2008

Response by poster: Thanks for all the info. I will be using all of this soon.

Just to be clear, we will not be selling anything at the venue!

That would be dumb. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. Instead we would be selling to other fans on a forum who are planning to make their own shirts but can't or just want to buy them to wear to the show.

Fuzzy Skinner, thats a shame the band didn't just pay up. Could have been a benefit for the both of you. I don't plan on going about this the wrong way.

Others have done it on the forum so we're interested in trying it out the right way.
Again, thanks!
posted by grablife365 at 6:41 PM on April 3, 2008

One more consideration: model releases.

If I take a picture of some lady on a beach, and I tell you that it's okay to use the picture, you still might have trouble if the lady recognizes herself in the photo.

So even if you find Creative Commons or public domain photos, proceed with caution if they're of specific people. Honestly, I don't know all the legal ins and outs of the issue, but I know it's an issue.
posted by lore at 7:31 PM on April 3, 2008

One alternative is to use something like istockphoto - you can download images for $1-$10, although you might want to also purchase extended licensing if you're actually selling the images on t-shirts.

Alternatively, another place is sxc.hu, which is free, but again check for licensing of images if they're for commercial use.
posted by randomination at 3:19 AM on April 4, 2008

There's really no legal way to do this, unless it's your band.
posted by electroboy at 6:58 AM on April 4, 2008

You can do whatever you want. You're making a small number of shirts (I'm guessing less than fifty). The "Intellectual property" industry has made so many advances in their war of ideas in the last ten years it is ridiculous. Just change what you start with. It's how art operates. From Rock and Roll to design to most clothes we buy, it is an organic process of stealing, altering, reverting, blending, and doing whatever.
If anything, you shouldn't just straight take someone else's t-shirt design (like if this was for a *popular band name here* show, you shouldn't just bootleg an existing shirt of theirs). Not because of copyright law but because it is bonafide Corny. But if you wanted to make a shirt for their show and (warning: bonafide corny example) take a picture of mount rushmore and a picture of the band member's faces and superimpose their faces on mount rushmore, and you take all the pictures off of google images, then just do it.
It's another matter if you want to put it on a cd (scale does change things) or if you are a corporation. But if you and your friends just want to make some crazy shirts, do it and don't let the lawyers freak you out. Not to go off topic, but there's an incredibly criminal war going on right now. I don't see how we can even take things like copyright infringement seriously in that light.
posted by history is a weapon at 7:21 AM on April 4, 2008

I think history is a weapon makes a fair point about art coming from re-appropriation and re-use, and that it is really not a "crime" to make a couple-three dozen t-shirts for your favorite band. I will mention, though, that selling merchandise is becoming a particularly nice way for bands to make money without being hideously aggressive about preventing sharing of their music. If the band is an up-and-coming group that is cool with people downloading their tunes, maybe better karma to direct people to the band's own merchandise, to help subsidize their music-making.
posted by Rock Steady at 5:05 PM on April 4, 2008