Reasonable store cut on artwork sale?
March 12, 2008 6:03 AM Subscribe
What is a fair percentage of the final sale amount that a store (not a gallery) should get on a piece of art?
I entered a custom toy in a show at a designer toy store. When I brought it in the owner asked me if I wanted to sell it, and for how much. I just replied with "let them make an offer" not really expecting anyone to buy it. No terms of sale were discussed.
Now it's been about two weeks and someone has made him an offer for $100. He claims he should get 50% of that amount. I understand that galleries usually split 50/50 with the artist, but this isn't a gallery, it's a store. The show was to promote the store and bring in new customers. All (or most) of the DIY toys were purchased from his store. His profits come mainly from the sale of toys.
Am I being unreasonable here to think that in this particular case 50/50 is excessive?
If not, any suggestions on how I should approach this issue?
I entered a custom toy in a show at a designer toy store. When I brought it in the owner asked me if I wanted to sell it, and for how much. I just replied with "let them make an offer" not really expecting anyone to buy it. No terms of sale were discussed.
Now it's been about two weeks and someone has made him an offer for $100. He claims he should get 50% of that amount. I understand that galleries usually split 50/50 with the artist, but this isn't a gallery, it's a store. The show was to promote the store and bring in new customers. All (or most) of the DIY toys were purchased from his store. His profits come mainly from the sale of toys.
Am I being unreasonable here to think that in this particular case 50/50 is excessive?
If not, any suggestions on how I should approach this issue?
A store will usually make at least 100% markup on the things (often times much more) it sells as will a gallery so I don't think that's unreasonable.
posted by zeoslap at 6:11 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by zeoslap at 6:11 AM on March 12, 2008
Possibly not unreasonable, but it would have been nice if he told you he was planning on taking half of the profits up front. If you don't like the amount of money you are getting, don't sell it. You may be able to negotiate by telling him that since he expects 50%, you will have to wait for an offer twice as good. Since this is more of a one-off for him, rather than his core business, he may decide to take what he can get, and opt for a more modest cut.
posted by worstkidever at 6:21 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by worstkidever at 6:21 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
As an artist who has sold my work in stores and galleries, it's a very reasonable percentage. If it's not enough money for you, don't sell it. It doesn't matter if it's a store or a gallery, or where the business makes most of it's profit. Running a store is expensive.
I know a lot of people are surprised by the markup when they get their art in a store, but that is the way it is.
When I have had my work on consignment in stores and galleries it's usually been at 50 percent, occasionally at 60 percent and once at 70 percent in a store that went out of business because they didn't know what the hell they were doing and couldn't make a living.
posted by Melsky at 6:43 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I know a lot of people are surprised by the markup when they get their art in a store, but that is the way it is.
When I have had my work on consignment in stores and galleries it's usually been at 50 percent, occasionally at 60 percent and once at 70 percent in a store that went out of business because they didn't know what the hell they were doing and couldn't make a living.
posted by Melsky at 6:43 AM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
50% is pretty typical. Non-profits and co-ops may take a lower commission but for profit spaces generally won't. 60% to the gallery in a bigger city isn't that unusual either.
You should always negotiate this in advance and price accordingly. And keep your (retail) prices consistent even when the commission varies - if you sell privately for half what your work sells for in a gallery/store and word gets back to the gallery you've got a problem on your hands.
posted by leslies at 6:47 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
You should always negotiate this in advance and price accordingly. And keep your (retail) prices consistent even when the commission varies - if you sell privately for half what your work sells for in a gallery/store and word gets back to the gallery you've got a problem on your hands.
posted by leslies at 6:47 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: The percentage I'm getting is more than what I thought the final sale price would be. My main issue is that he's getting the same amount of money as me for just putting it on the shelf. I was just wondering if that's normal, and I guess it is. Keep in mind that I only did this as a one time thing and I have no idea how the art world works.
posted by exolstice at 6:55 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by exolstice at 6:55 AM on March 12, 2008
60/40 is more common for galleries. In retail stores usually there's a 100% markup so 50/50 sounds right to me. I have sold wholesale stuff to retail stores before and they always doubled whatever we charged them.
posted by bradbane at 7:19 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by bradbane at 7:19 AM on March 12, 2008
He's not 'just putting it on the shelf' for you. He's also paying rent, electricity, sales tax, insurance, phone, alarm, payroll, payroll tax, the shelf the art is sitting on, and other things for you too. He just isn't billing you in an invoice for them.
posted by whoda at 7:25 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by whoda at 7:25 AM on March 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
whoda: he's also not taking any risk if the item doesn't sell. It's not like he bought the item and said I'm going to mark it up 50%. Yes he has expenses but so does the artist.
But from what's said above, sounds like 50/50 is somewhat normal in this regard. To me it seems like a pretty good deal for him.
posted by sully75 at 7:34 AM on March 12, 2008
But from what's said above, sounds like 50/50 is somewhat normal in this regard. To me it seems like a pretty good deal for him.
posted by sully75 at 7:34 AM on March 12, 2008
Response by poster: But in this particular case, I know the guy, I buy almost all my designer toys from his store (even when I could get them cheaper elsewhere). I bought the base toy from his store. The show, as was my understanding, was to promote the store and generate interest in designer toys. Any sales are just bonuses in my estimation. The people who submitted pieces did it mainly for fun, and maybe win prizes. The show's success was based on people buying DIY toys from his store, customizing them, and then bringing them in to be displayed. I don't think anyone went into it expecting some sort of financial compensation. Personnally, I did it primarily for fun and to make the show a bigger success. With these clarifications, it is still reasonable to assume that he would just turn around and handle this like a standard business transaction and ask for 50% of the sale price?
posted by exolstice at 7:44 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by exolstice at 7:44 AM on March 12, 2008
the owner asked me if I wanted to sell it, and for how much. I just replied with "let them make an offer" not really expecting anyone to buy it. No terms of sale were discussed.
This is it.
He asked you. You didn't answer.
Now he could just have given you $50 and told you that it was the amount that the customer paid. And I suppose you would have been happy with it.
So, this is not about pricing and since he has asked beforehand, you are not in a position to argue his commission.
Either you agree with his offer or you keep your toy.
The rest is not a matter of price but is about the relationship you have with this guy, and this is another ball game.
posted by bru at 8:13 AM on March 12, 2008
This is it.
He asked you. You didn't answer.
Now he could just have given you $50 and told you that it was the amount that the customer paid. And I suppose you would have been happy with it.
So, this is not about pricing and since he has asked beforehand, you are not in a position to argue his commission.
Either you agree with his offer or you keep your toy.
The rest is not a matter of price but is about the relationship you have with this guy, and this is another ball game.
posted by bru at 8:13 AM on March 12, 2008
I agree with bru. If you weren't expecting anyone to buy it, and now someone has made an offer... then why are you suddenly so concerned with how much of a cut the owner of the store is taking? If someone offered you $50 for the toy and there was no store owner taking a cut, would you accept the offer? It sounds like you think it is unreasonable that he is taking 50% of the cut, not that you are getting $50 for the toy. The price should be up to you, if you think it is unfair that the owner is taking 50% then you should have priced your toy so that you would be satisified with your 50%
posted by comatose at 9:00 AM on March 12, 2008
posted by comatose at 9:00 AM on March 12, 2008
Personnally, I did it primarily for fun and to make the show a bigger success.
If you would rather have the $50 than the toy, sell it. He makes money, you make money. It's a pain in the ass for a store owner to deal with this stuff, display your toy, advertise the show, etc. He has a business to run and expected this show to help him with that, whether through selling the toys in the show or in some other way. You are basically paying him to run this store and sell your work for you through his 50%. He had expenses putting on this show -- advertising, prizes. I guarantee he didn't do a show just because he thought it would be fun.
You seem unhappy that someone wants to buy this toy. Perhaps you shouldn't sell it.
posted by yohko at 1:41 PM on March 12, 2008
If you would rather have the $50 than the toy, sell it. He makes money, you make money. It's a pain in the ass for a store owner to deal with this stuff, display your toy, advertise the show, etc. He has a business to run and expected this show to help him with that, whether through selling the toys in the show or in some other way. You are basically paying him to run this store and sell your work for you through his 50%. He had expenses putting on this show -- advertising, prizes. I guarantee he didn't do a show just because he thought it would be fun.
You seem unhappy that someone wants to buy this toy. Perhaps you shouldn't sell it.
posted by yohko at 1:41 PM on March 12, 2008
I bought the base toy from his store.
Let's all read that again.
I bought the base toy from his store.
And then you customized it, entered it in his show, and he's still asking for a 50/50 split?
Yeah, I think that's excessive. Feels like he's double-dipping in a major way, if not outright trying to take advantage. I'd offer 60/40, mentioning that 1) you're more than happy to see him get a significant chunk of the sale for his work organizing and promoting the show, but 2) you already paid him once for the toy and 3) after speaking with other artists you believe a 60/40 split more fairly represents the creative effort in this situation. Be polite and friendly, make the offer and then wait for his reply. Don't jabber away after stating you'd prefer a 60/40 split, just say it and then wait.
This kind of bargaining goes on all the time in the collectables world. It's no big deal and you shouldn't stress over it. If you feel particularly ballsy, try for a 70/30 split first then if he refuses tell him you'll allow yourself to settle for 60/40, but no less (of course, you have to be ready to accept that he'll turn you down and both of you will get nothing, or wimp out and come crawling back the next day for 50/50). Just assert your position in a friendly, calm, polite way, and keep things that way even if he declines. If you can't come to agreement, keep the toy and move on. Regardless of the outcome, keeping the relationship friendly shouldn't be that hard to do.
(Hell, standing firm and walking away may even increase his respect for you. :)
posted by mediareport at 9:16 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Let's all read that again.
I bought the base toy from his store.
And then you customized it, entered it in his show, and he's still asking for a 50/50 split?
Yeah, I think that's excessive. Feels like he's double-dipping in a major way, if not outright trying to take advantage. I'd offer 60/40, mentioning that 1) you're more than happy to see him get a significant chunk of the sale for his work organizing and promoting the show, but 2) you already paid him once for the toy and 3) after speaking with other artists you believe a 60/40 split more fairly represents the creative effort in this situation. Be polite and friendly, make the offer and then wait for his reply. Don't jabber away after stating you'd prefer a 60/40 split, just say it and then wait.
This kind of bargaining goes on all the time in the collectables world. It's no big deal and you shouldn't stress over it. If you feel particularly ballsy, try for a 70/30 split first then if he refuses tell him you'll allow yourself to settle for 60/40, but no less (of course, you have to be ready to accept that he'll turn you down and both of you will get nothing, or wimp out and come crawling back the next day for 50/50). Just assert your position in a friendly, calm, polite way, and keep things that way even if he declines. If you can't come to agreement, keep the toy and move on. Regardless of the outcome, keeping the relationship friendly shouldn't be that hard to do.
(Hell, standing firm and walking away may even increase his respect for you. :)
posted by mediareport at 9:16 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Well, he sold it for $160, which I never would've been able to even suggest. If I'd been selling it directly, it probably wouldn't have sold for more than $50. So I guess he earned the 50%. Thanks for all the answers!
posted by exolstice at 5:44 AM on March 13, 2008
posted by exolstice at 5:44 AM on March 13, 2008
Ok, now you *must* post a picture. :) Glad it worked out so well, though. Damn, that must be some toy.
posted by mediareport at 6:58 AM on March 13, 2008
posted by mediareport at 6:58 AM on March 13, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jahaza at 6:10 AM on March 12, 2008