My body doesn't know how to stop being a klutz.
February 24, 2008 11:46 AM Subscribe
Can I fix my lack of depth perception? One of my eyes is mostly decorative and I'm tired of hurting myself on coffee tables.
My right eye has always been bad. I'm not sure -how- bad it is, just incredibly nearsighted, almost to the point of being useless. I get some peripheral vision from it, but that's about all.
My left eye, comparatively, has always been pretty decent. Every eye doctor I visited told me that I was extremely left-dominant, and since the vision in that one was all right, I didn't need glasses yet.
My depth perception was always kinda wonky - I was the kid most likely to get hit in the head with a volleyball. But my awareness of my body in relation to my surroundings was all right. Things were either in focus or they were not, just like a camera.
Skip ahead a few years: I can't read street signs, and this time I do need glasses. I also, completely, failed the depth perception test. So it goes. (Driving, however, is not a problem, because I am paranoid about having tons of space around my car.) I got glasses, I saw the world in a whole new way, all was good.
Except I got clumsier, because now, suddenly, I had depth perception and didn't know what to do with it. I never learned how to combine motion with vision like that, you know? I'm still very left-side dominant. I'm better at catching things now, if they're thrown slowly, but that's about it.
Is there anything I can do on my own to fine-tune my sense of where my body is in relation to large bruising objects like door frames and table corners and energetic dogs? Someday when I have health insurance again I plan to see someone about this, but in the meantime I'd like to do what I can to fix it.
And: what are the names for these things? I'm pretty sure there's a specific title for "sense of where you are in relation to the car keys your friend threw at you," but I don't know it.
My right eye has always been bad. I'm not sure -how- bad it is, just incredibly nearsighted, almost to the point of being useless. I get some peripheral vision from it, but that's about all.
My left eye, comparatively, has always been pretty decent. Every eye doctor I visited told me that I was extremely left-dominant, and since the vision in that one was all right, I didn't need glasses yet.
My depth perception was always kinda wonky - I was the kid most likely to get hit in the head with a volleyball. But my awareness of my body in relation to my surroundings was all right. Things were either in focus or they were not, just like a camera.
Skip ahead a few years: I can't read street signs, and this time I do need glasses. I also, completely, failed the depth perception test. So it goes. (Driving, however, is not a problem, because I am paranoid about having tons of space around my car.) I got glasses, I saw the world in a whole new way, all was good.
Except I got clumsier, because now, suddenly, I had depth perception and didn't know what to do with it. I never learned how to combine motion with vision like that, you know? I'm still very left-side dominant. I'm better at catching things now, if they're thrown slowly, but that's about it.
Is there anything I can do on my own to fine-tune my sense of where my body is in relation to large bruising objects like door frames and table corners and energetic dogs? Someday when I have health insurance again I plan to see someone about this, but in the meantime I'd like to do what I can to fix it.
And: what are the names for these things? I'm pretty sure there's a specific title for "sense of where you are in relation to the car keys your friend threw at you," but I don't know it.
Best answer: "what are the names for these things? I'm pretty sure there's a specific title for "sense of where you are in relation to the car keys your friend threw at you," but I don't know it."
Proprioception and visual position information.
posted by 517 at 11:58 AM on February 24, 2008
Proprioception and visual position information.
posted by 517 at 11:58 AM on February 24, 2008
Best answer: You might find this article interesting. (Oliver Sacks, A Neurologist's Notebook, "Stereo Sue," The New Yorker, June 19, 2006, p. 64.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:58 AM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:58 AM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: The best thing to do is to improve the vision in the right eye. Tell the eye doctor that you want corrective lenses because of your poor depth perception, not for clarity of vision. This is a perfectly reasonable request and a good doc will be able to do something for you.
posted by winston at 11:59 AM on February 24, 2008
posted by winston at 11:59 AM on February 24, 2008
Best answer: I've got the same sort of issue, although not as badly as you described. My optometrist suggested that vision therapy would be helpful---and that it may be covered by medical, and not vision, insurance. I didn't follow up on it, but it might be something to look into.
A fast google found this site on vision therapy that might be helpful.
posted by leahwrenn at 12:06 PM on February 24, 2008
A fast google found this site on vision therapy that might be helpful.
posted by leahwrenn at 12:06 PM on February 24, 2008
The Corpse In The Library- I was just looking for that very article, nice find! The way she described first seeing snowflakes was what really grabbed me.
posted by pedmands at 12:07 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by pedmands at 12:07 PM on February 24, 2008
I have exactly the same arrangement. You can't just "learn" to play ping-pong, it's like telling someone with profound colour blindness to learn to paint. It's hard for someone without such a (relatively minor) deficit to imagine what it's like. Generally, you wouldn't know I have a problem, but then when I poured wine all over the place trying to refill your glass across the table, or you tossed something to me and it went past me and hit the wall, you might wonder.
If you didn't have depth perception during a period of very early childhood, your brain can't learn to process that input, ever. Having the weak eye aided by a lens can clean up the input but can't give you back the processing capacity.
I find the main thing is to learn to move more slowly when you're in a new, cluttered space. I've chosen not to drive, but I know that this is all but a death knell to some people, and I'm pretty sure there are people on the road with this problem or worse.
posted by zadcat at 12:24 PM on February 24, 2008
If you didn't have depth perception during a period of very early childhood, your brain can't learn to process that input, ever. Having the weak eye aided by a lens can clean up the input but can't give you back the processing capacity.
I find the main thing is to learn to move more slowly when you're in a new, cluttered space. I've chosen not to drive, but I know that this is all but a death knell to some people, and I'm pretty sure there are people on the road with this problem or worse.
posted by zadcat at 12:24 PM on February 24, 2008
I don't know how encouraging this will be, but.
When I was a kid, I had a wandering eye. The SOP at the time (mid- to late-'60s U.S.) was to let the kid "grow out of it" instead of fixing it surgically or with physical therapies.
Fast-forward about 12 years and my mom was working for Torsten Weisel, who shared the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1981 with David Hubel for work they had done in the late '60s:
On preview: what zadcat said.
posted by rtha at 12:36 PM on February 24, 2008
When I was a kid, I had a wandering eye. The SOP at the time (mid- to late-'60s U.S.) was to let the kid "grow out of it" instead of fixing it surgically or with physical therapies.
Fast-forward about 12 years and my mom was working for Torsten Weisel, who shared the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1981 with David Hubel for work they had done in the late '60s:
Hubel and Wiesel received the Nobel Prize 1981 for their work on ocular dominance columns in the 1960s and 1970s. By depriving kittens from using one eye, they showed that columns in the primary visual cortex receiving inputs from the other eye took over the areas that would normally receive input from the deprived eye. These kittens also did not develop areas receiving input from both eyes, a feature needed for binocular vision. Hubel and Wiesel's experiments showed that the ocular dominance develops irreversibly early in childhood development. These studies opened the door for the understanding and treatment of childhood cataracts and strabismus. They were also important in the study of cortical plasticity. (emphasis mine)Long story short: your brain's patterns for visual perception are set quite early in life. My mom realized that I might not have had any depth perception for years, and compensated for it somehow. She brought home one of those 3-D testing books (the kind with pictures made of different colors of dots, and if you can see in 3-D, certain images will "pop") and had me look at it. Fortunately, I could see in 3-D - I guess my childhood strabismus wasn't too bad. You may be able to encourage your strong eye to compensate somewhat, but I don't know that you'll ever really see in 3-D.
On preview: what zadcat said.
posted by rtha at 12:36 PM on February 24, 2008
You can make some improvement, but the plastic period for formation of the regular ocular dominance columns in your visual cortex is long passed. You will never have normal depth perception.
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:20 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by ikkyu2 at 2:20 PM on February 24, 2008
Best answer: I think this is really a matter of experience as much as anything else. Because of eye problems as a kid, the whole binocular vision thing kind of doesn't work for me, and, therefore, no depth perception in the traditional sense of the word. Nonetheless, I don't have any trouble driving or catching a baseball or racing my bike (although, I will admit that I have to take a little more care than my competitors not to clip somebody's wheel when riding in a very tight pack.) In fact, about the only problem I've ever had because of it is that those Magic Eye things just completely don't work for me.
I suspect this is because the problem developed when I was very young and so I was just able to adapt. Maybe, as an adult, it's harder to adapt -- neurologically speaking -- to such a change, but I bet that practice could make a big difference. If you're clumsy by nature, there are things you could do to improve your motor skills. If it's more of a problem with the depth perception, perhaps you can do things that would force you really make use of your depth perception in a meaningful way, and thereby train your brain to make judgments about distance more effectively.
What about, just for example, trying to play some tennis? The court is pretty much open and free of obstacles, so you're unlikely to run into something and hurt yourself. The ball is soft, so if it hits you, it won't hurt you badly. And if you really want to hit the ball you really have to work on noting both your own location in space and the location of the ball. This is just an example, but I'd bet it, or something else like it, would help you improve your sense of where your body is in space and your perception of other objects in space.
posted by dseaton at 3:09 PM on February 24, 2008
I suspect this is because the problem developed when I was very young and so I was just able to adapt. Maybe, as an adult, it's harder to adapt -- neurologically speaking -- to such a change, but I bet that practice could make a big difference. If you're clumsy by nature, there are things you could do to improve your motor skills. If it's more of a problem with the depth perception, perhaps you can do things that would force you really make use of your depth perception in a meaningful way, and thereby train your brain to make judgments about distance more effectively.
What about, just for example, trying to play some tennis? The court is pretty much open and free of obstacles, so you're unlikely to run into something and hurt yourself. The ball is soft, so if it hits you, it won't hurt you badly. And if you really want to hit the ball you really have to work on noting both your own location in space and the location of the ball. This is just an example, but I'd bet it, or something else like it, would help you improve your sense of where your body is in space and your perception of other objects in space.
posted by dseaton at 3:09 PM on February 24, 2008
Best answer: I've had the same problem all my life, and the only answer I've found is practice, practice, practice. I can't park a car in a garage the first 20 times without someone to guide me in. On the 21st time, I start to get the hang of it, because even if I don't have depth perception, I can mark a spot on the driveway and learn to hit that spot.
As for bumping the edges of tables, smashing toes, etc., I don't think there's a good answer. I learned to always wear slippers and expect to always have bruises. When pouring wine, hold the bottle, hold the glass, guide the lip of the bottle to the hand holding the glass - touch it with your finger. In general, that's a good answer. Try to feel what you can't see. Expect to break glasses, plates, etc., and don't obsess over it.
The hardest thing of all is to accept it: you're not going to change. You will dump salad in your lap; you can't play softball; you can't see 3-D movies. If you learn to accept and ignore it, people around you will do the same.
The older I am, the easier it is to accept.
posted by clarkstonian at 3:41 PM on February 24, 2008
As for bumping the edges of tables, smashing toes, etc., I don't think there's a good answer. I learned to always wear slippers and expect to always have bruises. When pouring wine, hold the bottle, hold the glass, guide the lip of the bottle to the hand holding the glass - touch it with your finger. In general, that's a good answer. Try to feel what you can't see. Expect to break glasses, plates, etc., and don't obsess over it.
The hardest thing of all is to accept it: you're not going to change. You will dump salad in your lap; you can't play softball; you can't see 3-D movies. If you learn to accept and ignore it, people around you will do the same.
The older I am, the easier it is to accept.
posted by clarkstonian at 3:41 PM on February 24, 2008
Nthing the same problem all my life.
My father's solution was to get me involved in as many sports as possible that involved hard balls coming rapidly at my head: think tennis, squash, lacrosse -- and back in the pre-helmet days! It didn't give me depth perception, but I learned to work around it.
I'll never parallel park, my shins are always bruised, but MAN, can I duck. Thanks, Dad.
posted by mozhet at 4:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
My father's solution was to get me involved in as many sports as possible that involved hard balls coming rapidly at my head: think tennis, squash, lacrosse -- and back in the pre-helmet days! It didn't give me depth perception, but I learned to work around it.
I'll never parallel park, my shins are always bruised, but MAN, can I duck. Thanks, Dad.
posted by mozhet at 4:14 PM on February 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is the perfect opportunity to be justified in one's purchase of a monocle.
posted by jtron at 4:42 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by jtron at 4:42 PM on February 24, 2008
Response by poster: Monocle! Oh, how I want a monocle. I'd look like an idiot with that plus the glasses. Though... on the off chance an optometrist ever fits me with an eye patch... or would that be overkill? I say, old chap, YARR!
Thanks for so many great answers! I'm okay with my brain being stuck this way -- it's all I've ever known, and it can occasionally be hilarious. (A friend of mine always leaves his playstation controllers on the floor, and every time I come over it's like Dick Van Dyke and that damn ottoman.)
All of you who've told me you've learned ways to work with it it have given me ideas on how to do the same myself. I think I may start with playing pool. The object there, it seems, is to send the balls AWAY from me, and I like the sound of that. I'll have everyone stand behind me just in case.
I'm not completely without depth perception, though - it's just pretty impaired. I can do 3D movies, with the goofy plastic glasses. Is that how the rest of the world sees... the rest of the world?
posted by cmyk at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2008
Thanks for so many great answers! I'm okay with my brain being stuck this way -- it's all I've ever known, and it can occasionally be hilarious. (A friend of mine always leaves his playstation controllers on the floor, and every time I come over it's like Dick Van Dyke and that damn ottoman.)
All of you who've told me you've learned ways to work with it it have given me ideas on how to do the same myself. I think I may start with playing pool. The object there, it seems, is to send the balls AWAY from me, and I like the sound of that. I'll have everyone stand behind me just in case.
I'm not completely without depth perception, though - it's just pretty impaired. I can do 3D movies, with the goofy plastic glasses. Is that how the rest of the world sees... the rest of the world?
posted by cmyk at 5:20 PM on February 24, 2008
Best answer: Me too! My optometrist (who is also a close friend) says don't bother to try to retrain, or do vision therapy-it's way too late and will just mess me up. He also said not to worry too much about driving, as the impairment is really for closer things, like 6 feet or so. In other words, parking is really difficult for me but stuff in the distance is not-I have no problem telling how far away this building is from that way, as we apparently use other cues for depth perception at a distance.
posted by purenitrous at 10:16 PM on February 24, 2008
posted by purenitrous at 10:16 PM on February 24, 2008
As a bicycle rider, I was reading the original post and many of the comments that followed thinking: 'how do people with this condition believe they should put themselves in control of a lethal weapon?'
And then I read purenitrous's comment, and suddenly it all made sense.
Binocular vision is only helpful when there is a discernible difference in what each eye sees. Once anything is over a couple feet away the vision from each eye is essentially identical, and we use other cues (essentially scale, and - especially in the case of driving - changes in perceived scale over time, I imagine) to inform our depth perception.
I'm sure most who left comments were already aware of this, but for the rest of us who were going to look twice at every other driver next time we went out on to the road...
posted by puffmoike at 4:52 AM on February 25, 2008
And then I read purenitrous's comment, and suddenly it all made sense.
Binocular vision is only helpful when there is a discernible difference in what each eye sees. Once anything is over a couple feet away the vision from each eye is essentially identical, and we use other cues (essentially scale, and - especially in the case of driving - changes in perceived scale over time, I imagine) to inform our depth perception.
I'm sure most who left comments were already aware of this, but for the rest of us who were going to look twice at every other driver next time we went out on to the road...
posted by puffmoike at 4:52 AM on February 25, 2008
Is there anything I can do on my own to fine-tune my sense of where my body is in relation to large bruising objects like door frames and table corners
The optics on glasses (yeah, that might not be the right technical term) will distort where things in your peripheral vision appear to be. This is worse with stronger prescriptions and larger lenses, and better with high index lenses. It takes a while to get used to.
To see if this is going on with your glasses, stand at the door area where you can see the door frame at the edge of your vision. Since your right eye probably has the stronger lenses, stand where you can just barley see it on your right, but still looking through your new glasses. You should be looking ahead into a room/hallway. Note the position of the doorframe. Without moving your head, take off your glasses. Many people will perceive the doorframe to be in a slightly different location. This will lead to you walking into the frame, because it's in a different place than where you are used to it being compared to the information you are getting from your eyes.
Straight lines also tend to look curved at the edges of higher prescriptions. Over time, you will get used to the difference in how things appear, or you can get contacts.
posted by yohko at 9:14 AM on February 25, 2008
The optics on glasses (yeah, that might not be the right technical term) will distort where things in your peripheral vision appear to be. This is worse with stronger prescriptions and larger lenses, and better with high index lenses. It takes a while to get used to.
To see if this is going on with your glasses, stand at the door area where you can see the door frame at the edge of your vision. Since your right eye probably has the stronger lenses, stand where you can just barley see it on your right, but still looking through your new glasses. You should be looking ahead into a room/hallway. Note the position of the doorframe. Without moving your head, take off your glasses. Many people will perceive the doorframe to be in a slightly different location. This will lead to you walking into the frame, because it's in a different place than where you are used to it being compared to the information you are getting from your eyes.
Straight lines also tend to look curved at the edges of higher prescriptions. Over time, you will get used to the difference in how things appear, or you can get contacts.
posted by yohko at 9:14 AM on February 25, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Loto at 11:53 AM on February 24, 2008