How can I protect myself from my financially unstable mother?
February 19, 2008 3:51 AM Subscribe
How can I protect myself from my financially unstable mother?
This is a question regarding my mother. Long story short, she's currently waitressing after losing her career due to abetting illegal activities at her workplace, she's bankrupt from credit card debt due to overspending, and still gets help from her rich father who is in his early seventies just to "make ends meet", which basically means eating out on a regular basis and getting big cable TV packages.
She's always going on about how she can't wait until my grandfather dies so that she can get a big inheritance and not have to "worry about money anymore" but it is likely this money will be squandered as well. When my sister and I were young, we received bonds from our grandparents for our college educations and my mother cashed them in, as well as took money from us from our first childhood bank accounts which were joint owned with her, which gives me paranoia about her stealing money from me now.
My question is this; I finally have financial stability since graduating from college and I'm making plans to invest the money in savings for emergencies and my own retirement. I also have to worry about paying off a lot of loans. Besides suddenly being paralyzed with the, potentially irrational, fear that my mother will somehow find a way to take my money from me, it has suddenly occurred to me that she has no retirement fund. The only way I can see this ending is with my sister and I being coerced into paying for our ailing, sick mother while we drown in financial ruin. My mother has never shown any ability to stand on her own feet and is used to being pampered by her rich father. My sister is in her early twenties has already been guilt-tripped into giving her money even though she has credit card debt of her own.
Seeing where things are headed, I'm confused about what to do at this point. Should I hide details about my financial information? Insist that I only help her with money when she's in extreme distress and aging, but not before then? At what point does someone draw the line when their parent can't take care of themselves? I've already tried talking to her about money to no avail, so it's become obvious to me that the change needs to happen on my end.
I want to be ready for whatever comes. Please suggest ways that I can protect myself. Thanks for your help.
This is a question regarding my mother. Long story short, she's currently waitressing after losing her career due to abetting illegal activities at her workplace, she's bankrupt from credit card debt due to overspending, and still gets help from her rich father who is in his early seventies just to "make ends meet", which basically means eating out on a regular basis and getting big cable TV packages.
She's always going on about how she can't wait until my grandfather dies so that she can get a big inheritance and not have to "worry about money anymore" but it is likely this money will be squandered as well. When my sister and I were young, we received bonds from our grandparents for our college educations and my mother cashed them in, as well as took money from us from our first childhood bank accounts which were joint owned with her, which gives me paranoia about her stealing money from me now.
My question is this; I finally have financial stability since graduating from college and I'm making plans to invest the money in savings for emergencies and my own retirement. I also have to worry about paying off a lot of loans. Besides suddenly being paralyzed with the, potentially irrational, fear that my mother will somehow find a way to take my money from me, it has suddenly occurred to me that she has no retirement fund. The only way I can see this ending is with my sister and I being coerced into paying for our ailing, sick mother while we drown in financial ruin. My mother has never shown any ability to stand on her own feet and is used to being pampered by her rich father. My sister is in her early twenties has already been guilt-tripped into giving her money even though she has credit card debt of her own.
Seeing where things are headed, I'm confused about what to do at this point. Should I hide details about my financial information? Insist that I only help her with money when she's in extreme distress and aging, but not before then? At what point does someone draw the line when their parent can't take care of themselves? I've already tried talking to her about money to no avail, so it's become obvious to me that the change needs to happen on my end.
I want to be ready for whatever comes. Please suggest ways that I can protect myself. Thanks for your help.
I feel bad for you. This is a horrible situation. Essentially Matteo has it; you're facing guilt when she wants you to support her in your old age. It's probably almost impossible to head this off at the pass.
However, you could consider speaking to your grandfather while he's still alive on how he might structure his bequest to her in such as way as to prevent her from frittering it away. Maybe he could set up a trust fund for her, administered by somebody else - so there's a drip of money that keeps her going, not a deluge where she gets to act like she's won the lottery.
It sounds like he's used to taking care of her; maybe he would agree that she needs to be provided for in a paternalistic way that takes control of the money away from her. She's not going to learn money-management skills at this stage, that's for sure. If you managed to pull this off, she would probably hate you for it. But she would have a roof over her head while doing so.
posted by tiny crocodile at 4:15 AM on February 19, 2008
However, you could consider speaking to your grandfather while he's still alive on how he might structure his bequest to her in such as way as to prevent her from frittering it away. Maybe he could set up a trust fund for her, administered by somebody else - so there's a drip of money that keeps her going, not a deluge where she gets to act like she's won the lottery.
It sounds like he's used to taking care of her; maybe he would agree that she needs to be provided for in a paternalistic way that takes control of the money away from her. She's not going to learn money-management skills at this stage, that's for sure. If you managed to pull this off, she would probably hate you for it. But she would have a roof over her head while doing so.
posted by tiny crocodile at 4:15 AM on February 19, 2008
Response by poster: Sorry to respond so early in the comments, but I want to add that unfortunately my mother and her father have a very abusive relationship built up. Every request for money is accompanied by a tear-filled phone call while he screams at her and then finally agrees to give his worthless daughter money. It's unlikely I can talk to him about this.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 4:36 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 4:36 AM on February 19, 2008
Sounds like, to be honest, he would be delighted to have the idea of a trust fund for your mother proposed to him, rather than giving her a lump sum on his death. Unless that relationship works both ways, and he's convinced himself that she will learn the error of her ways if he just screams at her enough.
How is your relationship with your grandfather? What makes you think he wouldn't listen to you if you suggested he think about how his will might work?
posted by Happy Dave at 5:02 AM on February 19, 2008
How is your relationship with your grandfather? What makes you think he wouldn't listen to you if you suggested he think about how his will might work?
posted by Happy Dave at 5:02 AM on February 19, 2008
Make sure your banking passwords are not information she knows/has access to - the standard 'mother's maiden name' is not going to help you protect your money. There are a few banks (at least in the UK - don't know about where you are) who have cottoned on to the fact that your mother's maiden name is not the most secure information in the world, and in fact your mother may not have ever been married. If your bank doesn't offer some other security protection - find another bank!
Presumably your mother has no retirement fund because she's expecting a big payout when her father dies, if she blows all that then well tough luck - don't be pressurised into giving her money you can't afford. Take care of yourself and your needs. The only way she will learn to look after her money is by not having any. If you, your sister and your grandfather keep bailing her out then she'll never learn how to budget. Don't feel guilty about it, you're doing her a favour, if a little too late.
posted by missmagenta at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2008
Presumably your mother has no retirement fund because she's expecting a big payout when her father dies, if she blows all that then well tough luck - don't be pressurised into giving her money you can't afford. Take care of yourself and your needs. The only way she will learn to look after her money is by not having any. If you, your sister and your grandfather keep bailing her out then she'll never learn how to budget. Don't feel guilty about it, you're doing her a favour, if a little too late.
posted by missmagenta at 5:09 AM on February 19, 2008
Can she even be sure he will leave her money? You never know...
posted by konolia at 5:20 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by konolia at 5:20 AM on February 19, 2008
Look up the Medicaid rules in your mother's state. In my state, my parents can receive Medicaid to cover all nursing/medical care despite owning a house so long as their other personal assets remain below $2400 total.
posted by xo at 5:22 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by xo at 5:22 AM on February 19, 2008
Presumably, your mother knows your social security number, and enough of your personal information that she could fairly easily open credit accounts in your name. Given that your mother lost her job over illegal dealings, I would be worried about this, especially if you stop giving her money. Have you been checking your credit reports regularly? I would consider placing a fraud alert with credit report companies, which requires that they call you at a number that you provide to confirm your identity before opening a new account.
I also think the trust idea is a great suggestion. I think your grandfather might go for it. Just make sure he has a neutral party (like an attorney) be the administrator of the trust, and not you or your sister.
posted by kimdog at 5:43 AM on February 19, 2008
I also think the trust idea is a great suggestion. I think your grandfather might go for it. Just make sure he has a neutral party (like an attorney) be the administrator of the trust, and not you or your sister.
posted by kimdog at 5:43 AM on February 19, 2008
Ah, this sounds all too familiar. Except in my case, there's no rich family that could potentially provide for care when my mom gets old. She's just flat out poor and unable to take care of herself (by keeping a job) and unable to even make a relationship work that might result in a husband to help out in the later years...
When I was in college, she started asking for things to be put in my name/money/etc. I cried over it about 100 times before I got used to it, but I just said NO every time. It's all you can do to self-preserve. I now find myself happily married and with a very healthy financial position, but after 10 years of me saying no, my mom has basically stopped asking. Of course, I know all that will change once she is no longer of working age. I have considered getting a long term care insurance policy on her, which will pay for elder care, but those are super expensive.
I wish I had a good solution for you for the future, but my best advice is start saying no now. It will make it easier in the long run. Your life is your own, and while you love your mother and appreciate her raising you, it does neither of you any good if she drags you down with her.
I'll check back to this question often to see if anyone has any great insight to this plight!
posted by uvaleg at 6:12 AM on February 19, 2008
When I was in college, she started asking for things to be put in my name/money/etc. I cried over it about 100 times before I got used to it, but I just said NO every time. It's all you can do to self-preserve. I now find myself happily married and with a very healthy financial position, but after 10 years of me saying no, my mom has basically stopped asking. Of course, I know all that will change once she is no longer of working age. I have considered getting a long term care insurance policy on her, which will pay for elder care, but those are super expensive.
I wish I had a good solution for you for the future, but my best advice is start saying no now. It will make it easier in the long run. Your life is your own, and while you love your mother and appreciate her raising you, it does neither of you any good if she drags you down with her.
I'll check back to this question often to see if anyone has any great insight to this plight!
posted by uvaleg at 6:12 AM on February 19, 2008
Maybe put a lock on credit so that you have to call and authorize the opening of any new credit lines. She probably has a lot of the information you need to open a line of credit (DOB, SSN, etc) already, since she's your mother.
posted by electroboy at 6:38 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by electroboy at 6:38 AM on February 19, 2008
This is a lot more common than you would think. There is no magic answer except to do what uvaleg suggests and just say no. You are NOT responsible for her financial well-being. Since the guilt-tripping has been going on your entire life it will be very difficult for you unless you get quite a bit of emotional and physical distance. Have you considered therapy to role-play how to say no to her? Personally, although it sounds harsh, I would draw the line at no money, ever, not even in extreme distress or aging. You just have to keep reminding yourself that she is the author of her own misfortune and she has already stolen from you. Does your grandfather know you have loans because she stole your money? Since he is getting her version of events when she asks for money would you feel comfortable explaining to him her past stealing from family and work? Your sister too, is an adult and you should not help her financially after your mother pulls her under too. You have earnt the right to enjoy your own hard-earned money. Good luck, I know this is extremely difficult for you, but you MUST put yourself and your future first.
posted by saucysault at 6:51 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by saucysault at 6:51 AM on February 19, 2008
All these answers are excellent- in addition to making SURE that your checking and savings accounts (and any other assets you might have) do not have her name on them. A lot of people have the same savings account from when they were kids, and mom or dad's name are going to be on there. And make SURE that the bank understands that mom isn't to be trusted with your money.
Seconding talking to gramps. Keep it light, you aren't trying to get "your share" of his money, you just want to make sure mom is cared for. It's his money and he can do with it what he wants and you understand that, of course. You are just mentioning it because we all know mom isn't good with money.
Seconding hiding your relative wealth. People who are bad with money just assume that you have a lot more money than you do, when you are just responsible. If she asks for money, remind her of your school loans and that you are paycheck to paycheck paying them off. If she gives you grief about buying a car or house or nice things, say the same thing. I hate to recommend lying to anyone, but people like her tend to not accept no for an answer. If you don't have it to give, you don't have to say no.
posted by gjc at 7:27 AM on February 19, 2008
Seconding talking to gramps. Keep it light, you aren't trying to get "your share" of his money, you just want to make sure mom is cared for. It's his money and he can do with it what he wants and you understand that, of course. You are just mentioning it because we all know mom isn't good with money.
Seconding hiding your relative wealth. People who are bad with money just assume that you have a lot more money than you do, when you are just responsible. If she asks for money, remind her of your school loans and that you are paycheck to paycheck paying them off. If she gives you grief about buying a car or house or nice things, say the same thing. I hate to recommend lying to anyone, but people like her tend to not accept no for an answer. If you don't have it to give, you don't have to say no.
posted by gjc at 7:27 AM on February 19, 2008
Also, this thread about dealing with a relative looking for money might come in useful.
posted by Happy Dave at 7:41 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by Happy Dave at 7:41 AM on February 19, 2008
I second tiny crocodile's advice. You say it would be difficult to talk to him about it, and I believe you. It's also possible your grandfather might be more receptive than you think—it sounds like you and he are essentially on the same wavelength: you're upset with your mother, but don't want to leave her out in the cold.
Having seen a similar dynamic within my own extended family, I assure that it would be vastly better to have this worked out and absolutely cast in stone (legally speaking) while your grandfather can still make decisions. I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Good estate lawyers will need to be involved.
posted by adamrice at 7:53 AM on February 19, 2008
Having seen a similar dynamic within my own extended family, I assure that it would be vastly better to have this worked out and absolutely cast in stone (legally speaking) while your grandfather can still make decisions. I can't emphasize this strongly enough. Good estate lawyers will need to be involved.
posted by adamrice at 7:53 AM on February 19, 2008
Preemptive strike: start bugging your mother incessantly about help with paying off your college loans.
posted by any major dude at 8:01 AM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by any major dude at 8:01 AM on February 19, 2008 [1 favorite]
Seconding the importance of monitoring your credit. It would be very easy for your mom to get a credit card in your name (she'll of course intend to pay it off herself, but you know how that will go). If it happens, you'll have a tough choice: assume the debt yourself, or file criminal charges (at least those were the options my friend had).
posted by Horselover Fat at 8:32 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by Horselover Fat at 8:32 AM on February 19, 2008
I am in a similar position with my mom and asked a related question here - maybe some of the answers will be useful to you.
This is a horribly difficult situation and I'm sorry that you're in it. I certainly agree that you need to take necessary steps to make sure she can't abuse your SSN or credit. I also agree that the right thing to do is 'just say no' when she asks - but I'm very aware of just how difficult that is, especially when your own mother is facing eviction, joblessness, medical issues, inability to pay bills etc. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is a constant struggle for me as well. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Good luck to you (and uvaleg and me) - we need it...
posted by widdershins at 10:09 AM on February 19, 2008
This is a horribly difficult situation and I'm sorry that you're in it. I certainly agree that you need to take necessary steps to make sure she can't abuse your SSN or credit. I also agree that the right thing to do is 'just say no' when she asks - but I'm very aware of just how difficult that is, especially when your own mother is facing eviction, joblessness, medical issues, inability to pay bills etc. I wish I had a better answer for you, but this is a constant struggle for me as well. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. Good luck to you (and uvaleg and me) - we need it...
posted by widdershins at 10:09 AM on February 19, 2008
Suggest to your grandfather that he put your mother's inheritance into a spendthrift trust. Also, ask your grandfather if he will replace the college money your mother took so you can use it against your student loan debt. It's only fair.
posted by Daddy-O at 10:23 AM on February 19, 2008
posted by Daddy-O at 10:23 AM on February 19, 2008
I would definitely stay away from giving her money, cosigning loans, and/or opening credit cards together. But you already know that. I wouldn't offer to help unless she's really in dire straights, i.e., she's facing eviction or can't afford to feed herself. If you decide to help, there are ways to do so without ruining your own financial future or credit. For example you could buy her groceries if she's literally going hungry.
posted by bananafish at 12:31 PM on February 19, 2008
posted by bananafish at 12:31 PM on February 19, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for all of the suggestions. I happen to have my grandfather's lawyer's email address, perhaps I will ask her about what was suggested here. I'm really not sure how receptive he'll be to talking about his finances though. Also going to do the credit check and update my finances.
I'm sorry to hear there are other people in this situation but heartened to know they are thinking the same thing I am; protect yourself regardless of how things turn out. Good luck to all of us.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 3:24 PM on February 19, 2008
I'm sorry to hear there are other people in this situation but heartened to know they are thinking the same thing I am; protect yourself regardless of how things turn out. Good luck to all of us.
posted by fan_of_all_things_small at 3:24 PM on February 19, 2008
The ideas here are great (talk to grandpa, credit/fraud alerts, ask her for $ help preemptively).
Something that helped my mom with my relatively poor grandmother is that grandma owned her house and could take out a reverse mortgage, and eventually sell the house, which is paying for a lot of her care now. So, what I'm suggesting is: encourage her to buy assets. (I'm sure she'll then try to get a homeowners line of credit, etc, etc, but it can't hurt.) What I'm suggesting is: stress that she buy assets, set aside money for retirement, buy long-term care insurance, and so forth. Though it is unlikely it will help, it will not hurt. And you can frame it in a way that makes clear she's going to have to take care of herself.
posted by salvia at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2008
Something that helped my mom with my relatively poor grandmother is that grandma owned her house and could take out a reverse mortgage, and eventually sell the house, which is paying for a lot of her care now. So, what I'm suggesting is: encourage her to buy assets. (I'm sure she'll then try to get a homeowners line of credit, etc, etc, but it can't hurt.) What I'm suggesting is: stress that she buy assets, set aside money for retirement, buy long-term care insurance, and so forth. Though it is unlikely it will help, it will not hurt. And you can frame it in a way that makes clear she's going to have to take care of herself.
posted by salvia at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2008
Agree with all the suggestions for credit monitoring. For a specific service, I recommend American Express's CreditSecure program. It's $12/month and you can pull all three credit reports as often as you like (after the 30 day free trial, during which you only get to pull your credit reports once). You have to be an American Express cardholder but it's the best value I've found for credit reports monitoring and thus I think it's worth opening a new account with them to get it.
posted by Jacqueline at 2:14 AM on February 21, 2008
posted by Jacqueline at 2:14 AM on February 21, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by matteo at 4:00 AM on February 19, 2008