Women in the service industry vs Chauvinist pigs
February 3, 2008 8:09 AM Subscribe
How do women in the service industry get by without letting obnoxious cavemen get to them?
A friend walked out on her casino dealer job after (non-sexual) harassment from a couple of male players. One of the female players at the table had been on the receiving end of lewd comments just before. A floorperson (older male) was called over to intervene, but gave more of a wink-nudge reprimand rather than stand up for the women at the table, and later implied it just came with the territory for female dealers. She's endured this sort of thing for a while now, and I'm not quite sure how to help persuade her to want to keep her job (rather than merely put up with it). Beyond just saying "Most people are decent human beings" and "Don't let the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing goons get to you."
What are some ways that women in similar jobs (cocktail waitresses come to mind) - jobs that require them to be around loutish drunks and abrasive alpha males - can get through the day, earn a living, and maybe even enjoy their job, without taking such behavior personally and feeling demoralized and objectified?
A friend walked out on her casino dealer job after (non-sexual) harassment from a couple of male players. One of the female players at the table had been on the receiving end of lewd comments just before. A floorperson (older male) was called over to intervene, but gave more of a wink-nudge reprimand rather than stand up for the women at the table, and later implied it just came with the territory for female dealers. She's endured this sort of thing for a while now, and I'm not quite sure how to help persuade her to want to keep her job (rather than merely put up with it). Beyond just saying "Most people are decent human beings" and "Don't let the knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing goons get to you."
What are some ways that women in similar jobs (cocktail waitresses come to mind) - jobs that require them to be around loutish drunks and abrasive alpha males - can get through the day, earn a living, and maybe even enjoy their job, without taking such behavior personally and feeling demoralized and objectified?
Sure sounds like the pit boss is contributing to a hostile work environment, and has opened his casino up to a pretty ugly and pointless lawsuit- pointless in the sense that he could easily have ended it.
Recommend you talk to his boss, and (depending on the outcome) a lawyer. It's possible to change the casino's culture, and probably preferable for the long term for that casino's prospects- I suspect that australopithicenes have relatively little disposable income.
posted by jenkinsEar at 8:44 AM on February 3, 2008
Recommend you talk to his boss, and (depending on the outcome) a lawyer. It's possible to change the casino's culture, and probably preferable for the long term for that casino's prospects- I suspect that australopithicenes have relatively little disposable income.
posted by jenkinsEar at 8:44 AM on February 3, 2008
Salvatorparadise: I can't say I ever felt overlooked when customers didn't hit on me in my past service industry jobs.
I think there are some women who are cut out for those types of jobs--either in the sense that they're totally no-nonsense and don't take crap from anyone, or in the sense that they're sort of (appropriately) flirty-friendly and are able to stay in control of the banter between themselves and the knuckle-draggers--and some women who aren't. I don't mean your friend shouldn't or can't work any service industry job ever again, just that perhaps working in a casino isn't for her.
Unless working as a casino dealer is her childhood dream, I'd say you should encourage her to find another job with a different atmosphere (asshole customers are part of life in the service industry, but the type of asshole you run into depends on the particular job you're working). I don't know how much a casino dealer makes compared to other service industry jobs, but a job she'll keep is better than one she'll walk out on in the long run financially.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2008
I think there are some women who are cut out for those types of jobs--either in the sense that they're totally no-nonsense and don't take crap from anyone, or in the sense that they're sort of (appropriately) flirty-friendly and are able to stay in control of the banter between themselves and the knuckle-draggers--and some women who aren't. I don't mean your friend shouldn't or can't work any service industry job ever again, just that perhaps working in a casino isn't for her.
Unless working as a casino dealer is her childhood dream, I'd say you should encourage her to find another job with a different atmosphere (asshole customers are part of life in the service industry, but the type of asshole you run into depends on the particular job you're working). I don't know how much a casino dealer makes compared to other service industry jobs, but a job she'll keep is better than one she'll walk out on in the long run financially.
posted by Meg_Murry at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2008
How do women in the service industry get by without letting obnoxious cavemen get to them?
I have three answers to this generally speaking
1. women in these jobs get by because it truly doesn't bother them which is why they can stay in these jobs when other people can't So, under this logic some people are better for these jobs than others and your friend may not be one of those people
2. women in these jobs get by because they are supported by higher ups in not tolerating caveman behavior from customers/clients/whatever and so when such behavior occurs it's made clear that it's not "part of the job" and dealt with appropriately. It's totally possible to not tolerate caveman behavior on the job and not necessarily create an atmosphere that stifles general good naturd banter and interaction, but it requires some subtlety on the part of the manager/staff. This doesn't sound like it's happening at your friend's place of business
3. women in these jobs get by because they view it as "just a job" and decide that there are certain sacrifices you have to make to have a decent job including dealing with cavemen. This is slightly different than #1 because I believe the women in #1 truly don't mind whereas the women in this category have decided that there is an exchange happening, and it's one that they are okay with.
So, the ways of dealing with this are, to me, become a different sort of person (therapy, meditation, anti-anxiety meds, change of outlook, however you do that), try to angle for a different sort of boss/atmosphere (switch jobs but keep the same sort of job til you find decent management) or decide that the trade off is worth it and keep at it.
Even though your friend is at some level right, it's a shame that her workplace expects her to put up with cavemen on the job, it's also true that she has options above and beyond sucking it up. It's also true that for some people this sort of thing is not a big deal. I'm loath to say she should not have this job because I sort of be;lieve it's a fundamental right to be free of harassment, but it's unclear from your description what sort of harassment she is experiencing. Is it just that she has to witness people being loutish to other people? It's a lot harder to make the case [ethically and legally] for harassment-by-proxy than it is to point out examples of things that affect you directly. If she wants to make a case, I'd be all for it, but it may need to be a little more airtight than that one.
posted by jessamyn at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have three answers to this generally speaking
1. women in these jobs get by because it truly doesn't bother them which is why they can stay in these jobs when other people can't So, under this logic some people are better for these jobs than others and your friend may not be one of those people
2. women in these jobs get by because they are supported by higher ups in not tolerating caveman behavior from customers/clients/whatever and so when such behavior occurs it's made clear that it's not "part of the job" and dealt with appropriately. It's totally possible to not tolerate caveman behavior on the job and not necessarily create an atmosphere that stifles general good naturd banter and interaction, but it requires some subtlety on the part of the manager/staff. This doesn't sound like it's happening at your friend's place of business
3. women in these jobs get by because they view it as "just a job" and decide that there are certain sacrifices you have to make to have a decent job including dealing with cavemen. This is slightly different than #1 because I believe the women in #1 truly don't mind whereas the women in this category have decided that there is an exchange happening, and it's one that they are okay with.
So, the ways of dealing with this are, to me, become a different sort of person (therapy, meditation, anti-anxiety meds, change of outlook, however you do that), try to angle for a different sort of boss/atmosphere (switch jobs but keep the same sort of job til you find decent management) or decide that the trade off is worth it and keep at it.
Even though your friend is at some level right, it's a shame that her workplace expects her to put up with cavemen on the job, it's also true that she has options above and beyond sucking it up. It's also true that for some people this sort of thing is not a big deal. I'm loath to say she should not have this job because I sort of be;lieve it's a fundamental right to be free of harassment, but it's unclear from your description what sort of harassment she is experiencing. Is it just that she has to witness people being loutish to other people? It's a lot harder to make the case [ethically and legally] for harassment-by-proxy than it is to point out examples of things that affect you directly. If she wants to make a case, I'd be all for it, but it may need to be a little more airtight than that one.
posted by jessamyn at 8:47 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oops, didn't finish my thought:
So, when waiting tables, you're gonna have to deal with all sorts of jackasses. The plus to this is that they tend to fit into a few, concrete roles and once you recognize them, it's easy to deal with, it's just a matter of shifting gears to deal with demanding table or the picky table or sexist table.
Waiterrant.net is also good reading for putting a lot of troublesome tables in context and a reminder that someone else is dealing with worse tables. Oddly enough, the male waiter there has a background in psychology which gives him a lot of insight into dealing with customers.
Summing it all up, your friend was right to walk about, especially if the place is going to be shitty to her AND female customers. In the future, if she wants to continue in the field, looking at the job as an interesting experiment in studying people/performance art as opposed to soul-sucking job might help her refocus her energies elsewhere. Goo luck to your friend.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:53 AM on February 3, 2008
So, when waiting tables, you're gonna have to deal with all sorts of jackasses. The plus to this is that they tend to fit into a few, concrete roles and once you recognize them, it's easy to deal with, it's just a matter of shifting gears to deal with demanding table or the picky table or sexist table.
Waiterrant.net is also good reading for putting a lot of troublesome tables in context and a reminder that someone else is dealing with worse tables. Oddly enough, the male waiter there has a background in psychology which gives him a lot of insight into dealing with customers.
Summing it all up, your friend was right to walk about, especially if the place is going to be shitty to her AND female customers. In the future, if she wants to continue in the field, looking at the job as an interesting experiment in studying people/performance art as opposed to soul-sucking job might help her refocus her energies elsewhere. Goo luck to your friend.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:53 AM on February 3, 2008
your friend might have a lawsuit. it's the employers responsibility to facilitate a tolerable work enviroment.
that being said ... attitude is everything.
posted by krautland at 8:59 AM on February 3, 2008
that being said ... attitude is everything.
posted by krautland at 8:59 AM on February 3, 2008
I don't know how you can persuade her to keep a job that entails working with the public. I don't know how easy it would be to change your friend's mind about how she emotionally deals with rude behavior. It's difficult to change one's outlook on these things.
I can empathize with your friend. In my younger days it used to peeve me to no end when a man would say, "Good girl" when I served their coffee. I would seethe and comment to my co-workers that I hated when someone called me a good girl. It sounded like something you would say to a dog when after they fetched a newspaper. It pissed me off. It was degrading. My friends would laugh. That's about the only thing that really got me mad. That, and when men would ask me if I worked out, while looking straight at my breasts. Even then, I don't think I ever felt demoralized, just annoyed. I could walk away from these people. They were clueless strangers. Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent and all that stuff.
One coworker of mine would let any and all rude behavior bother her. It would get under her skin when people wouldn't say thank-you. She was in a perpetual bad mood because she had to work with the public. I worked with her in a food stand at a big flea market and she would sometimes chase rude customers down the aisle. She once threw an ice cream cone at a rude customer. I felt sad and aggravated that she couldn't let stupid comments go. I was surprised that she took this stuff personally. She was sort of naive in the fact that not everybody was polite. The way I got through it is behaving in a professional manner at all times and having a sense of humor. I can understand if people were touching you, or speaking in a degrading way. But sometimes people, like my coworker, get bent out of shape if they fail to say thank-you. I'm not perfect in the least, but I can only hope that my decent, professional manner at work will rub off on the loudmouthed, rude, and clueless people of the world. That's the only thing you can do.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:00 AM on February 3, 2008
I can empathize with your friend. In my younger days it used to peeve me to no end when a man would say, "Good girl" when I served their coffee. I would seethe and comment to my co-workers that I hated when someone called me a good girl. It sounded like something you would say to a dog when after they fetched a newspaper. It pissed me off. It was degrading. My friends would laugh. That's about the only thing that really got me mad. That, and when men would ask me if I worked out, while looking straight at my breasts. Even then, I don't think I ever felt demoralized, just annoyed. I could walk away from these people. They were clueless strangers. Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent and all that stuff.
One coworker of mine would let any and all rude behavior bother her. It would get under her skin when people wouldn't say thank-you. She was in a perpetual bad mood because she had to work with the public. I worked with her in a food stand at a big flea market and she would sometimes chase rude customers down the aisle. She once threw an ice cream cone at a rude customer. I felt sad and aggravated that she couldn't let stupid comments go. I was surprised that she took this stuff personally. She was sort of naive in the fact that not everybody was polite. The way I got through it is behaving in a professional manner at all times and having a sense of humor. I can understand if people were touching you, or speaking in a degrading way. But sometimes people, like my coworker, get bent out of shape if they fail to say thank-you. I'm not perfect in the least, but I can only hope that my decent, professional manner at work will rub off on the loudmouthed, rude, and clueless people of the world. That's the only thing you can do.
posted by LoriFLA at 9:00 AM on February 3, 2008
It seems that as long as you're young, pretty and flirtatious (is feeding a guy's ego) you're able to get away with a hellofalot and power struggles are close to nil). A woman who yields to the chauvanist is considered a team player and fun. Nobody wants a dour, powerful, cause-driven woman in their midst. And if there is such a *creature* - she'll be readily knocked down, ridiculed, denigrated and demeaned - personality, character, skills and physically to the point of reduction to slut, bitch, insane woman and crone. The only way I can see getting out of the rut is to band together with like-minded women and form autonomous businesses that do not employ the neanderthal-minded males. Simply cut them out of the equation and do what you need to do in numbers to become a commercial, corporate force to be reckoned with. Simply kick the pigs to the curb. There's no other choice as I see it.
posted by watercarrier at 9:55 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 9:55 AM on February 3, 2008
People in service jobs shouldn't let their work define them. Once they accept that, they can put up with more shit from jerks without letting it affect their self esteem.
posted by HotPatatta at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by HotPatatta at 10:29 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
p.s. Consider starting a union.
posted by watercarrier at 10:44 AM on February 3, 2008
posted by watercarrier at 10:44 AM on February 3, 2008
Degrading, bullying behavior shouldn't be acceptable anywhere. The targets of such behavior, such as waitresses, shouldn't be the ones who have to change. The people committing the behavior should change.
Management at the casino should make clear what is acceptable behavior. They are failing to do that. If your friend is for some reason determined to work in that industry, she either needs to unionize or find another casino that has a professional, adult atmosphere.
In the short term, she can outclass the louts by remaining cool and professional. I've been experimenting lately with seeing loutish behavior as an expression of pain, and it has helped me not take it personally and set boundaries with some compassion. But it's still crucial to stop the behavior, out of respect both for yourself and for the person who's making an ass of himself.
posted by PatoPata at 11:01 AM on February 3, 2008
Management at the casino should make clear what is acceptable behavior. They are failing to do that. If your friend is for some reason determined to work in that industry, she either needs to unionize or find another casino that has a professional, adult atmosphere.
In the short term, she can outclass the louts by remaining cool and professional. I've been experimenting lately with seeing loutish behavior as an expression of pain, and it has helped me not take it personally and set boundaries with some compassion. But it's still crucial to stop the behavior, out of respect both for yourself and for the person who's making an ass of himself.
posted by PatoPata at 11:01 AM on February 3, 2008
How do women in the service industry get by without letting obnoxious cavemen get to them?
The are thick-skinned and have strong senses of humor, and they make the boundaries clear (to boss, peers, and, if possible, to drunken tiny-brained customers) before the boundaries are crossed (to prevent trouble rather than have to deal with it).
If your boss doesn't take your side against the cavemen (eject vile customers, for example, even if they're dropping big money in the place), he's just another caveman no matter how he tries to mollify you later. Don't work for cavemen.
posted by pracowity at 11:22 AM on February 3, 2008
The are thick-skinned and have strong senses of humor, and they make the boundaries clear (to boss, peers, and, if possible, to drunken tiny-brained customers) before the boundaries are crossed (to prevent trouble rather than have to deal with it).
If your boss doesn't take your side against the cavemen (eject vile customers, for example, even if they're dropping big money in the place), he's just another caveman no matter how he tries to mollify you later. Don't work for cavemen.
posted by pracowity at 11:22 AM on February 3, 2008
My sister and I had a long conversation about this when she was working as a waitress/hostess. She said at first the guys that treated her like a complete moron/piece of meat bugged her, but she learned that if she ignored the crap and piled on the flirtatious friendliness despite the neanderthal behavior, she could as much as double her tip. So, basically, she decided she was willing to treat her job as an acting challenge in exchange for an increased salary.
The feminist in her felt queasy about it, but ultimately I guess the capitalist in her won out. I don't think I could do that...which is why I'm glad I've never had to work in the service sector.
posted by crinklebat at 11:31 AM on February 3, 2008
The feminist in her felt queasy about it, but ultimately I guess the capitalist in her won out. I don't think I could do that...which is why I'm glad I've never had to work in the service sector.
posted by crinklebat at 11:31 AM on February 3, 2008
This is a very, very hard problem.
Most of the women I know who've handled it fairly easily did so by cultivating an informal alliance with other men present in the situation at hand. They seemed to me to do that by acknowledging these other men as a matter of course, with a word or a glance or a stance, and sort of weaving them together into a group. Once I saw a customer goose one such woman working as a cocktail waitress, and she spun around and hit him as hard as she could with a full arm swing right in the side of the mouth. He started up in a rage, and all other men in that bar very audibly slammed down their drinks and pushed their chairs back from their tables. His face changed before he could even get his feet under him, and he continued his motion with very different body language right out the door-- fast.
I agree with any person who thinks women should not have to 'depend on the kindness of strangers' like that, and I do know one woman who won't take even one minute bit of such guff, whether in a boardroom or on a remote wilderness beach, but she has a personality that would make a pillar of fire seem retiring by comparison.
I read and see reports that women in some northern European countries-- I'm thinking specifically of Denmark-- are able to even to ride their bicycles around in traffic in the nude with perfect aplomb, and I tell myself that the trend toward very revealing women's fashions (which has made me uncomfortable at times) is a sign that we are struggling to move in the same healthier direction.
posted by jamjam at 12:13 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Most of the women I know who've handled it fairly easily did so by cultivating an informal alliance with other men present in the situation at hand. They seemed to me to do that by acknowledging these other men as a matter of course, with a word or a glance or a stance, and sort of weaving them together into a group. Once I saw a customer goose one such woman working as a cocktail waitress, and she spun around and hit him as hard as she could with a full arm swing right in the side of the mouth. He started up in a rage, and all other men in that bar very audibly slammed down their drinks and pushed their chairs back from their tables. His face changed before he could even get his feet under him, and he continued his motion with very different body language right out the door-- fast.
I agree with any person who thinks women should not have to 'depend on the kindness of strangers' like that, and I do know one woman who won't take even one minute bit of such guff, whether in a boardroom or on a remote wilderness beach, but she has a personality that would make a pillar of fire seem retiring by comparison.
I read and see reports that women in some northern European countries-- I'm thinking specifically of Denmark-- are able to even to ride their bicycles around in traffic in the nude with perfect aplomb, and I tell myself that the trend toward very revealing women's fashions (which has made me uncomfortable at times) is a sign that we are struggling to move in the same healthier direction.
posted by jamjam at 12:13 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
You talk about both non-sexual harassment and lewd comments. I'm having trouble imagining what sorts of comments would be lewd and non-sexual, but harassment in service industry jobs in environments with drunk people who leave you tips is very common.
I think the usual reason a woman in her situation would want to keep her job is that it pays well. If this isn't the case, she should get another job. Things will be more tolerable for her if she can learn to deal with these guys in a way that subtly lets them know she won't take any shit from them, while being friendly on the surface. I wish I could tell you how she could get to this place, but all I can say is that she needs to get in touch with her personal power, and I realize that is so nebulous as to be near useless. At the same time, she needs to be able to leave the troubles and difficulties of the day behind each day. Not having to worry about how you will deal with some problem/client/project on your off time is one thing that is enjoyable about this sort of job. Work can be left at work, forgotten about until you need to put on your uniform again.
posted by yohko at 1:54 PM on February 3, 2008
I think the usual reason a woman in her situation would want to keep her job is that it pays well. If this isn't the case, she should get another job. Things will be more tolerable for her if she can learn to deal with these guys in a way that subtly lets them know she won't take any shit from them, while being friendly on the surface. I wish I could tell you how she could get to this place, but all I can say is that she needs to get in touch with her personal power, and I realize that is so nebulous as to be near useless. At the same time, she needs to be able to leave the troubles and difficulties of the day behind each day. Not having to worry about how you will deal with some problem/client/project on your off time is one thing that is enjoyable about this sort of job. Work can be left at work, forgotten about until you need to put on your uniform again.
posted by yohko at 1:54 PM on February 3, 2008
The management is supposed to stand up for their employees who are being harassed by customers. Not doing so is really bad for morale.
posted by pluckysparrow at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by pluckysparrow at 3:37 PM on February 3, 2008
When I sold computers full time (I took a few months off in college to earn money for my internship abroad), I took all kinds of abuse from male customers who didn't think a GIRL could possibly know anything about Big Fancy Electronics. Specifically, I was the sole Apple specialist on staff. You'd ask a guy if he needed help as he was checking out the latest Mac and he'd say "Oh, that's ok, dear, I'll wait for one of the guys." During the Christmas season, after hearing that one too many times, I finally just smiled and said "Ok!" It wasn't worth arguing about.
(.......and then I watched the guy wait 35 minutes to catch another staffer's attention. Guy opens with a question about Macs and sales dude says: "Oh, you'll have to talk to [bitter-girl], she's the only one on staff who knows Apple blah blah blah in detail.")
And when the customer slithered back over, I just smiled and tried not to smirk too much as I answered his questions and closed the sale.
So -- I second the "consider it an acting job" means of coping. Me, I had fun pretending to be a complete imbecile in front of these guys so I could pull out all the stops when it counted...all the obscure printer driver information no one else knew anything about, whatever. Your friend's mileage may differ, but if a new job isn't an option (mine really wasn't, either -- I was earning more than double what my male coworkers did due to my specialized knowledge and nowhere else was offering that kind of pay in 1995), playing mental games with yourself is one way to keep from decking the jerks.
Attempting to physically touch me would be the line I'd draw. As long as they're just being stupid, obnoxious drunks without "grabbiness," the method acting game should work fine.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:37 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
(.......and then I watched the guy wait 35 minutes to catch another staffer's attention. Guy opens with a question about Macs and sales dude says: "Oh, you'll have to talk to [bitter-girl], she's the only one on staff who knows Apple blah blah blah in detail.")
And when the customer slithered back over, I just smiled and tried not to smirk too much as I answered his questions and closed the sale.
So -- I second the "consider it an acting job" means of coping. Me, I had fun pretending to be a complete imbecile in front of these guys so I could pull out all the stops when it counted...all the obscure printer driver information no one else knew anything about, whatever. Your friend's mileage may differ, but if a new job isn't an option (mine really wasn't, either -- I was earning more than double what my male coworkers did due to my specialized knowledge and nowhere else was offering that kind of pay in 1995), playing mental games with yourself is one way to keep from decking the jerks.
Attempting to physically touch me would be the line I'd draw. As long as they're just being stupid, obnoxious drunks without "grabbiness," the method acting game should work fine.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:37 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Speaking specifically to the casino side of what your friend is suffering from, I can say that perhaps your friend was right to walk off.
I'm not sure what casino she was working at (and I'm very interested, as I worked for a huge corporation with a lot of casinos, and so far as I know, they didn't tolerate that shit), but casinos attract the lowest denominator (not only the lowest, but that definitely forms a part of the clientele). What I have observed is that many of the hardcore gamblers have several other vices, whether it be drinking, smoking, or sexist behavior as in this instance. In other words, she may have better luck working a job in a different sector of the service industry, simply because casinos can be especially troublesome.
(Case in point: I once had a couple come up and ask to speak to the manager at the casino where I worked. Ok, sure, fine. I point to the manager on duty, a woman. The man says, "No, I want a manager." My blank look leads him to say this gem: "MAN-ager, MAN, hombre." Truly. And this was six months ago, not 1966)
In any case, should she decide to stick with her job as a dealer, here's some tricks I found helpful (note: while I did work at a casino, I was NOT a dealer):
Make like a duck, and let it all fly off your back (your job is not your identity, don't let it become that). Make sure to report that particular pit boss, and work on getting supportive people on your shift (or switch shifts: the tips aren't as good in the day, but it can be worth it to get away from the drunks and late-night crazies). Work with the female customers to make sure men know that behavior isn't tolerated on *either* side of the line (and make sure that the pit bosses are listening to the customer! F'er goodness sake, I can see some idiot make a short-term decision to shortchange employees, but not customers!).
Cultivate a no-nonsense patter, and act more like a mother in certain situations (seriously: some men, I've found, are sexist as all get out but respond well to maternal authority figures...which is not ideal, but it *is* one way to avoid conflicts).
Do some research, maybe find some books written by former waitresses, talk to people in that line of work, etc. Good luck, whether it be in that job or another!
posted by librarylis at 12:40 AM on February 4, 2008
I'm not sure what casino she was working at (and I'm very interested, as I worked for a huge corporation with a lot of casinos, and so far as I know, they didn't tolerate that shit), but casinos attract the lowest denominator (not only the lowest, but that definitely forms a part of the clientele). What I have observed is that many of the hardcore gamblers have several other vices, whether it be drinking, smoking, or sexist behavior as in this instance. In other words, she may have better luck working a job in a different sector of the service industry, simply because casinos can be especially troublesome.
(Case in point: I once had a couple come up and ask to speak to the manager at the casino where I worked. Ok, sure, fine. I point to the manager on duty, a woman. The man says, "No, I want a manager." My blank look leads him to say this gem: "MAN-ager, MAN, hombre." Truly. And this was six months ago, not 1966)
In any case, should she decide to stick with her job as a dealer, here's some tricks I found helpful (note: while I did work at a casino, I was NOT a dealer):
Make like a duck, and let it all fly off your back (your job is not your identity, don't let it become that). Make sure to report that particular pit boss, and work on getting supportive people on your shift (or switch shifts: the tips aren't as good in the day, but it can be worth it to get away from the drunks and late-night crazies). Work with the female customers to make sure men know that behavior isn't tolerated on *either* side of the line (and make sure that the pit bosses are listening to the customer! F'er goodness sake, I can see some idiot make a short-term decision to shortchange employees, but not customers!).
Cultivate a no-nonsense patter, and act more like a mother in certain situations (seriously: some men, I've found, are sexist as all get out but respond well to maternal authority figures...which is not ideal, but it *is* one way to avoid conflicts).
Do some research, maybe find some books written by former waitresses, talk to people in that line of work, etc. Good luck, whether it be in that job or another!
posted by librarylis at 12:40 AM on February 4, 2008
She's endured this sort of thing for a while now, and I'm not quite sure how to help persuade her to want to keep her job (rather than merely put up with it).
I'd be very careful with this, if I were you. No matter how well-intentioned, trying to persuade her to keep a job like this can definitely come across as minimizing what it really means to be stuck a degrading situation. If she has a line in terms of the crap she'll put up with--and everyone has a line for every job--persuading her to want to keep her job is basically telling her that she should be willing (or even happy!) to put up with more crap. That either implies that it's somehow okay for people to treat her like that, or that she's not as good as you at doing a cost/benefit analysis about when it's no longer acceptable to stay at her job regardless of the pay (which is pretty paternalistic).
Is there any reason that quitting her job and getting a new one once she feels like the situation gets too bad is something to be talked out of? To me, what you're describing sounds like a pretty healthy and sane reaction--she's standing up for herself and walking out rather than letting it grind her down.
posted by iminurmefi at 10:43 AM on February 4, 2008
I'd be very careful with this, if I were you. No matter how well-intentioned, trying to persuade her to keep a job like this can definitely come across as minimizing what it really means to be stuck a degrading situation. If she has a line in terms of the crap she'll put up with--and everyone has a line for every job--persuading her to want to keep her job is basically telling her that she should be willing (or even happy!) to put up with more crap. That either implies that it's somehow okay for people to treat her like that, or that she's not as good as you at doing a cost/benefit analysis about when it's no longer acceptable to stay at her job regardless of the pay (which is pretty paternalistic).
Is there any reason that quitting her job and getting a new one once she feels like the situation gets too bad is something to be talked out of? To me, what you're describing sounds like a pretty healthy and sane reaction--she's standing up for herself and walking out rather than letting it grind her down.
posted by iminurmefi at 10:43 AM on February 4, 2008
As a woman in a male-dominated field, I understand. The sexist comments and attitudes are really fucking annoying after a while.
I deal with it in a few ways.
FIrstly, I come off as a guy when I can. I've had coworkers remark that they've forgotten my gender - this has happened fairly frequently. Yes, this is sexist. But at least I'm being treated like a person most of the time.
Secondly, I'm proactive about it. If someone is sexist in my direction, I react with disapproval. Frowning, glaring, whatever. Depending on how annoyed I am, I may snark.
Thirdly, I have a lot of guy friends, and often get them to act as bodyguards, by keeping known offenders away from me.
Some or none of these may be useful.
posted by ysabet at 12:09 AM on February 5, 2008
I deal with it in a few ways.
FIrstly, I come off as a guy when I can. I've had coworkers remark that they've forgotten my gender - this has happened fairly frequently. Yes, this is sexist. But at least I'm being treated like a person most of the time.
Secondly, I'm proactive about it. If someone is sexist in my direction, I react with disapproval. Frowning, glaring, whatever. Depending on how annoyed I am, I may snark.
Thirdly, I have a lot of guy friends, and often get them to act as bodyguards, by keeping known offenders away from me.
Some or none of these may be useful.
posted by ysabet at 12:09 AM on February 5, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
That said, I'm a guy and waited tables for years during college. Invariably the women who were most able to deal with this crap were those who firmly put their foot down the instant this came up, whether it was from customers or managers, BUT not in an obviously confrontational manner. Most of them were older women, usually over 30, who had seen it all in terms of waiting tables and had ceased taking it personally, for the most part (there's always some jackass who gets to you on the wrong day, whether you're a male or female). They could verbally smack down a table full of frat boys with a smile and still get a huge tip, probably because they gave as good as they got, while still existing in the client-business relationship.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:38 AM on February 3, 2008