Saul Williams-esque

December 14, 2007 9:28 AM

So, I was listening to the new Saul Williams album and its awesome. Can you recommend other more intellectual hip hop.
posted by khaibit to Media & Arts (40 answers total)

You probably have already heard of them, but Blackalicious is great. I'd recommend their older albums Nia and Blazing Arrow over the newer The Craft, which has its moments but is ultimately intended to be more of a dance album than anything. Its super creative for being dance music, and has a few gems (like "Black Diamonds and Pearls"), but I found it to be lackluster overall.

Atmosphere is some hot shit too, check out...um...everything.
posted by baphomet at 9:32 AM on December 14, 2007

everything from Brother Ali
posted by jk252b at 9:37 AM on December 14, 2007

Everything I've heard from The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy has been awesome. It's Michael Franti's first band. You may have heard "Television, the Drug of the Nation." They also do an awesome cover of the Dead Kennedeys' "California Über Alles."
posted by lekvar at 9:53 AM on December 14, 2007

We saw Saul Williams here in Atlanta a couple years back, at the Apache Cafe. Awesome. Amazing music. And his band was cool. I give you my husband's recent discovery - Little Brother. Some of that shit is laugh out loud, but some of it also sounds like they've got a voodoo priestess conjuring up the soul of Marvin Gaye to run the boards.
posted by Medieval Maven at 9:54 AM on December 14, 2007

MC Plus+
posted by wackybrit at 10:04 AM on December 14, 2007

Not really spoken word or slam both artists have some real storytelling ability... if'n you don't mind being offended now and again:
Immortal Technique and Sage Francis.
posted by jofuu at 10:08 AM on December 14, 2007 [1 favorite]

MC Plus+

no.
posted by rxrfrx at 10:12 AM on December 14, 2007

Dead Prez

Dr. Octagon
posted by Grundlebug at 10:19 AM on December 14, 2007

Aesop Rock
seconding Blackalicious
The Roots
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 10:28 AM on December 14, 2007

Handsome Boy Modeling School

Hieroglyphics

Deltron 3030

Black Star

Jay Z

Lupe Fiasco

I guess it depends on what you mean by "intellectual"? I know others will disagree but I never considered Atmosphere to be intellectual hip hop.
posted by ozomatli at 10:31 AM on December 14, 2007

Agreeing with The Roots, Little Brother, Dead Prez, Lupe Fiasco, and Blackalicious (and by extension The Gift of Gab's solo album). Adding Talib Kweli, Common, Akrobatik, Mr. Lif, The Perceptionists, Jurassic 5, The Coup, Panacea, Mos Def, and Fort Minor.
posted by paulus andronicus at 10:45 AM on December 14, 2007

No doubt, ozomatli. People's ideas about what counts as 'intellectual' are clearly different from mine.

And, khaibit, I'm wondering whether you're responding to Williams' slam-poetry-influenced presentation, his lyrical content or the Reznor-fied beats. Depending on the answer, there are probably two, or even three, different possible sets of recommendations.

Anyway, the OP might like, among other things, Mike Ladd, Antipop Consortium, Rammellzee, Dalek, Del and the Heiroglyphics crew, Talib Kweli, Last Emperor and that Cornel West album.
posted by box at 10:45 AM on December 14, 2007

Response by poster: I've been using intellectual as short hand for something more engaging than what I hear on radio, i.e. the acquisition of money, and women.

As to what I'm responding to: in order 1. lyrical content 2. slam influenced presentation and 3. Reznor influences.
posted by khaibit at 10:51 AM on December 14, 2007

Oh, and Black Star. I can't believe I forgot Black Star.
posted by paulus andronicus at 10:56 AM on December 14, 2007

Have you listened to a lot of Wu Tang? Very bombastic and raw... and really innovative beats.
posted by muscat at 11:08 AM on December 14, 2007

A lot of the rappers that go off and do work in Japan are pretty good. There are a bunch of really good tracks on Nujabes' album, and on Hirukumi's album. Check out Cise Star and Cyne.

Nas is good.

The other people mentioned thus far I quite like as well: Blackstar, etc.
posted by chunking express at 11:08 AM on December 14, 2007

Thirding Talib Kweli, specifically his earlier stuff w/ DJ Hi-Tek (Reflection Eternal)
posted by tatiana wishbone at 11:09 AM on December 14, 2007

intellectual is a loaded adjective. As a rap fan speaking to someone interested in listening to more rap, I encourage you to check your previously-held valuations of "types" of rap at the door. If you make too quick a judgment about the smarts of any particular artist, you will miss out on a lot of really intense and great music that doesn't sound quite the way you personally would expect "intellectual", etc, music to sound.

KRS-One, Nas, dead prez are good starts if you want meaningful rap.
posted by Embryo at 11:15 AM on December 14, 2007

Tupac was excellent. Don't let his popularity scare you away from his material.
posted by ozomatli at 11:17 AM on December 14, 2007

In addition to the suggestions already mentioned, try El-P.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:30 AM on December 14, 2007

For weirder music check out cLOUDDEAD. I did a post on the Blue about them about a month ago.

Saul Williams would surely say that The Last Poets are a huge influence on him.
posted by Bookhouse at 11:36 AM on December 14, 2007

Gang Starr are great too.
posted by chunking express at 11:49 AM on December 14, 2007

Gang Starr: "I can see dimensions of sound and light around my mic. Transmitting lyrics like teletype."

Thawfor: "Entrenched in this wickedness, nestled in god's fury as he combats the wicked, the serpentine styles...causing a paradigm shift for the subservient who...reconfigure their priorities and moral code...response...to the lightning rate of technological advancement and sensory overload, followed by central nervous system failure. Nations fold as quick as the gold standard. The accelerated dissemination of misinformation leads this virtual generation closer to the edge of distinction, blinded by their own perception. Patterns and signs are pushed aside, widening the great divide...where emotions and rationale collide...."

Rakim: "How could I keep my composure...when all sorts of thoughts fought for exposure? Beliefs in vain and the brains increase, when I let off make a wish and blow the smoke off my piece - unloadin'. Unfold and the rhymes are exploding. And the mic that I'm holdin's golden - cordless cause the wire caught fire like a fuse. Gunpowder and the slightest bruise is a friction. The outcome is there so listen. Here's a brief description - a boom, then flame, then smoke, ashes, dust-to-dust, contact is compact when I bust..."

Mr. Lif: "14, 16 split-screens all showing what you're viewing, what you're doing - withering away- Black Friday! sales prices - Buy! Dionysus - the god of wine just bought a spa - rise up from your couch, get it now!, go out, follow the warm glow, we sent you, open door, we sent you - our advertising so we know why you're here. Winter wear, summer wear, inboard gear, outboard gear, we got cords here next to the cords there, split peas and greens, slacks with seams, right next to your kid's dream stationery. Gonna elope? Buy a diamond ring and envelopes! "

I'd say no for Jay-Z - but maybe that's just me.

Most of these artists listed (even if you decide to go with Hov) have moments of everything. Moments of foul-mouthedness, moments of making the lines rhyme, moments of partying, and moments where what they are saying is less some words rhyming and more of an incredible immersion into language itself.

Gang Starr - Beyond Comprehension. Thawfor - Where thawght is worshiped. Rakim - Musical Massacre. Mr. Lif - Ultra Mega.

Consider that more than individual artists, you might love a playlist of songs.
posted by cashman at 12:20 PM on December 14, 2007

Top of the list:
Talib Kweli, Mr. Lif, the Perceptionists.
posted by General Malaise at 12:23 PM on December 14, 2007

Another contender: Atmosphere

Smart went crazy, truth went trendy
The story got lazy so I rewrote the ending
Manipulated the entry, more user friendly
Now a city full of painpills and tatooes defend me
I waver from the dead to the halfdead
Grey space between the fanbase and the crackhead
Sunset, sailboat set course for hell
A cross and a hammer, but you'll have to get some nails

Smart, funny, insightful. Great stuff.
posted by ekstasis23 at 12:49 PM on December 14, 2007

De La Soul. I wouldn't say it's saul williams-esque, but it's certainly more intelligent than most. Also try MF Doom.
posted by kpmcguire at 1:21 PM on December 14, 2007

"I've been waiting for a hip-hop album like J-Live's All of the Above for a while now; I’ve been craving hip-hop with lush beats and rich lyrics, hip-hop with no audio gimmickry and songs that never fail to tell a story. J-Live calls it “true school” hip-hop, and it's a perfectly appropriate term. On All of the Above, J-Live completely transcends all the conventions of both glossy corporate hip-hop and gritty, harsh underground hip-hop and makes something else- pure hip-hop.

J-Live is a man with a lot to say, and he says it intelligently..." (Stylus Magazine)
posted by evadery at 1:43 PM on December 14, 2007

I would definitely recommend checking out Saul Williams' older stuff, particularly his album produced by Rick Rubin (Amethyst Rock Star).

Nthing MF Doom, El-P and the rest of the people on the Def Jux label. My personal favorite of the bunch, which hasn't been mentioned yet, is Cannibal Ox. Their album, The Cold Vein, is one of the [IMO] best rap albums in the last 15 years. (I've heard people call it the Ok Computer of hip hop.) As a bonus, it was produced by El-P, who worked with Mr. Reznor on his last album, I'll Sleep When You're Dead, which is also excellent.

As for slam-influenced stuff, Sage Francis was the national Slam champ for a bit before becoming a rapper. He is on Epic and also has a group called the Non-Prophets on Anticon.

Finally, one of my favorite slam-influenced rappers is Listener. He has a slammy album on Mush called Whispermoon and another fantastic but hard to get album called Ozark Empire that I highly recommend.
posted by sleeping bear at 1:44 PM on December 14, 2007

Third Sight's new album, Symbionese Liberation Album has some of the smartest lyrics I've heard in hiphop.

Toothpaste for Dinner's drew thinks so too. That's how I heard about it. Thanks drew.
posted by zachxman at 2:18 PM on December 14, 2007

blue scholars

i will join in the mr. lif recommending squad too
posted by groovinkim at 3:12 PM on December 14, 2007

Except for the Reznor production, I believe these rappers have what you're looking for:

- The GZA, especially Liquid Swords.
- Public Enemy
- Ice Cube's first three albums, plus the Kill at Will EP
posted by ignignokt at 3:20 PM on December 14, 2007

If you haven't heard yet, listen to DJ Krust's "Coded language", esp. the title track featuring no other than Mr. Williams himself. Him at his best, at least in my opinion. Also, his contribution on Xen Cuts is pretty strong.
posted by phax at 3:34 PM on December 14, 2007

A lot of bizarre suggestions here.

Williams isn't a rapper and Trent Reznor isn't a hip-hop producer, so if you're looking for something like Saul Williams' new album, I don't think you're really looking for "intellectual hip-hop."

I mean seriously, Jurassic 5? That is some of the least intellectual music on earth. I am not opposed to it, but sheesh, the question wasn't "name some hip-hop white people like."
posted by YoungAmerican at 3:57 PM on December 14, 2007 [2 favorites]

I really love Danger Doom/ Danger Mouse/ MF Doom for this. Maybe not the most intellectual but they are definitely inventive and smart. They've done some songs with Jemini, Cee-Lo, Talib Kweli, and Ghostface Killah that really impressed me.

Also seconding Nujabes and other Japanese hip hop, e.g: fat jon, Tsutchie. The soundtrack for all of Samurai Champloo is very catchy, although more instrumental than intellectual. Still, some really great background music.
posted by actionpact at 3:59 PM on December 14, 2007

Now that I've gotten the anger out of my system...

I would say that considering aesthetics, I would echo those who've reccomended Def Jux artists like Cannibal Ox or Aesop Rock. Sage Francis was also a good example of a spoken word-y artist in a kinda hip-hop context. Not my personal cup of tea but likely what your looking for.

And I want to acknowledge folks here like box, Embryo and Sleeping Bear who seem to have actually payed attention to the question rather than just reccomending a few groups they like when they feel like listening to hip-hop.

I don't know what "intellectual" means in the context of pop music, but some folks have reccomended Lupe Fiasco, who can actually rap and has some really dense and fascinating lyrics. I'd say in terms of understanding Theory, Boots Riley has at least some Gramsci and Marx in him, and there are certainly some other folks with theory backgrounds (someone suggested Cornel West's album, for example, which is both awful and surprisingly OK)... but I'm not sure if that's actual what you're looking for. There are also plenty of hip-hop artists who are blindingly intelligent but have little to no interest in theory... Jay-Z or Scarface might be good examples of that.
posted by YoungAmerican at 4:10 PM on December 14, 2007

If you can get it: "Tricks of the Shade" by The Goats. Released in 1992. Maybe one day it will be officially re-released, but here it is in mp3 form for sale. I can't find it cheaper.
posted by not_on_display at 8:04 PM on December 14, 2007

Response by poster: Thanks Mefi. This certainly gives me a large, and apparently diverse list to start looking over. You guys rock.
posted by khaibit at 8:24 AM on December 15, 2007

MF Doom
Deltron 3030
Binary Star
posted by sinical at 11:16 AM on December 15, 2007

YoungAmerican, your first post is directly related to what I was trying to subtly get at. big ups.
posted by Embryo at 10:35 AM on December 18, 2007

Lemon.
posted by chunking express at 1:48 PM on December 21, 2007