Where can I find landlord/tenant laws online that will help me with this...
December 8, 2007 7:07 AM Subscribe
The building we're living in has been sold to a management company who just put out notices while we were on vacation. The notice is dated 12/4 and it states that rent payment must be in the form of cash, money order, or bank check. Their office hours are during the same hours we are at work mon-fri, 9-5. Payment can be dropped in their box or mailed to their office. They state payments received after the 5th of the month (due the 1st) will incur a 20% penalty. I'm wondering what the tenants rights are. Can they really NOT accept personal checks?!!
We don't have time to hit the bank nor do we intend to pay more money to provide payment in the form they are asking (MO, bank check) and we certainly can't make it to their office personally without having to get to work late which is very unreasonable imo. We've lived here for 11 years without any payment problems and there are other tenants who have lived here even longer without problems. Also, since we were on vacation when the notice came in, can they legally charge us that 20%?!!! I'm thinking not...but I'd really like to find something in writing online to print out for them to see (or any other tactics you might be able to suggest). Thanks for any help! oh, and we live in NYC.
We don't have time to hit the bank nor do we intend to pay more money to provide payment in the form they are asking (MO, bank check) and we certainly can't make it to their office personally without having to get to work late which is very unreasonable imo. We've lived here for 11 years without any payment problems and there are other tenants who have lived here even longer without problems. Also, since we were on vacation when the notice came in, can they legally charge us that 20%?!!! I'm thinking not...but I'd really like to find something in writing online to print out for them to see (or any other tactics you might be able to suggest). Thanks for any help! oh, and we live in NYC.
Not sure about the legality issues, but I know in my city (Buffalo) shady corner stores of the "all our business is in lotto and 40s" varities usually offer free money orders over a set amount- usually $100 or so.
posted by Kellydamnit at 7:24 AM on December 8, 2007
posted by Kellydamnit at 7:24 AM on December 8, 2007
Postal money orders are very cheap, and available at any post office.
I'd personally write a letter to the management company, and attach it to the bags of nickels I would use to pay the rent.
Really, though, it might be worth a quick call to a lawyer. If this is a "material change" to the rental agreement, you may have some recourse, but IANAL.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 7:32 AM on December 8, 2007
I'd personally write a letter to the management company, and attach it to the bags of nickels I would use to pay the rent.
Really, though, it might be worth a quick call to a lawyer. If this is a "material change" to the rental agreement, you may have some recourse, but IANAL.
posted by TheNewWazoo at 7:32 AM on December 8, 2007
Call 311. It sounds like they're trying to get rid of the current tenants.
posted by bshort at 7:49 AM on December 8, 2007
posted by bshort at 7:49 AM on December 8, 2007
Late rent fees in Philly are capped at (IIRC) 7% but landlords routinely charge far more. I discussed this issue with an attorney who helped a client family of mine that was getting murdered on illegal overcharges because their income came mostly towards the middle of the month. The attorney said that the problem with late fee over-charging is that in order to challenge it in court you kind of have to be late on your rent (probably very late) and by that point a housing court judge is more likely to find against you as a late rent payer than against the landlord for tacking on the extra percentage fee. Housing court at least in Philly is pretty stacked in favor of the landlord (again, according to this attorney that practiced housing law for a non-profit), so any time you go to housing court you have to have your ducks in a row to win a case and being regularly late in your rent isn't a good place to start. So basically it's a limbo issue at least down here, it rarely goes before a judge in any way where the late fees themselves are the sole focus of the case.
However, we, as the agency who assisted in housing the family, did send this particular landlord a letter with a friendly reminder about late fee laws. I would recommend finding out exactly what the law says in NY and also sending a reminder in a friendly tone to your landlord, though I wouldn't necessarily expect anything to change.
posted by The Straightener at 7:55 AM on December 8, 2007
However, we, as the agency who assisted in housing the family, did send this particular landlord a letter with a friendly reminder about late fee laws. I would recommend finding out exactly what the law says in NY and also sending a reminder in a friendly tone to your landlord, though I wouldn't necessarily expect anything to change.
posted by The Straightener at 7:55 AM on December 8, 2007
I believe they have to wait until the 10th before charging a late fee in NYC. But yeah, you should call 311 to find out for sure.
posted by rottytooth at 8:01 AM on December 8, 2007
posted by rottytooth at 8:01 AM on December 8, 2007
Response by poster: here are a few things from the contract which now have me worried...
rent must be paid on the first of the month.
rent must be paid in full without deduction.
if rent or added rent is not received within 5 days of the due date, Landlord may charge the Tenant a late fee of (1) $25, or (2) 1-1/2% of the sum due, each month, as added rent.
There is nothing on the lease stating what mode of payment must be made. However, it does mention: "If a check from Tenant to Landlord bounces, Tenant shall be charged $25 for processing costs as added rent."
It also states tenant must not use freezer - which we have. The previous landlord was lenient with us and we did the kitchen over - floors, cabinet, replacing the fridge, counter top (there was none when we first moved in). They did not pay us for any of this which I believe means everything we purchased would belong to us when we leave, no? The contract states we should have gotten a written consent.
There is also a section stating dogs or cats are not allowed. We have a tenant upstairs with cats, and we ourselves have had dogs for about 10 years.
posted by Jujee at 9:22 AM on December 8, 2007
rent must be paid on the first of the month.
rent must be paid in full without deduction.
if rent or added rent is not received within 5 days of the due date, Landlord may charge the Tenant a late fee of (1) $25, or (2) 1-1/2% of the sum due, each month, as added rent.
There is nothing on the lease stating what mode of payment must be made. However, it does mention: "If a check from Tenant to Landlord bounces, Tenant shall be charged $25 for processing costs as added rent."
It also states tenant must not use freezer - which we have. The previous landlord was lenient with us and we did the kitchen over - floors, cabinet, replacing the fridge, counter top (there was none when we first moved in). They did not pay us for any of this which I believe means everything we purchased would belong to us when we leave, no? The contract states we should have gotten a written consent.
There is also a section stating dogs or cats are not allowed. We have a tenant upstairs with cats, and we ourselves have had dogs for about 10 years.
posted by Jujee at 9:22 AM on December 8, 2007
There is nothing on the lease stating what mode of payment must be made.
IANAL, but this seems like a pretty clear issue to me. You and your landlord have a contract whereupon you pay him $X for the right to stay in your apartment for a month. They can't restrict mode of payment after the fact. Personal checks are legal tender.
Sounds to me like they got burned recently by a number of bounced rent checks and are banking on the relative ignorance of their tenants to twist arms.
There is also a section stating dogs or cats are not allowed. We have a tenant upstairs with cats, and we ourselves have had dogs for about 10 years.
I'd be a bit concerned about this. I have cats, and when I signed a lease in a "no-pet" place, I made them amend the lease to explicitly OK them.
posted by mkultra at 9:47 AM on December 8, 2007
IANAL, but this seems like a pretty clear issue to me. You and your landlord have a contract whereupon you pay him $X for the right to stay in your apartment for a month. They can't restrict mode of payment after the fact. Personal checks are legal tender.
Sounds to me like they got burned recently by a number of bounced rent checks and are banking on the relative ignorance of their tenants to twist arms.
There is also a section stating dogs or cats are not allowed. We have a tenant upstairs with cats, and we ourselves have had dogs for about 10 years.
I'd be a bit concerned about this. I have cats, and when I signed a lease in a "no-pet" place, I made them amend the lease to explicitly OK them.
posted by mkultra at 9:47 AM on December 8, 2007
if rent or added rent is not received within 5 days of the due date, Landlord may charge the Tenant a late fee of (1) $25, or (2) 1-1/2% of the sum due, each month, as added rent.
Then they can't change it to 20 percent during the existing term of your contract.
posted by grouse at 10:17 AM on December 8, 2007
Then they can't change it to 20 percent during the existing term of your contract.
posted by grouse at 10:17 AM on December 8, 2007
If you end up deciding to stay there and pay your rent to their specifications (and if you have the funds readily available each month) you could try paying your rent using the online payment option through your bank. If the bank can't transfer the money directly to the landlord's account, they will write an official bank check for the amount and mail it to the landlord for you.
At least this is how it works for me at Wachovia. I have my rent set to pay on the 25th of each month (which adds in some leeway for weekends, holidays, etc.) The check usually gets cut on the 26th, then mailed to my landlord. They usually receive it on the 28th each month, in the form of a bank-issued check, and deposit it on the first. If the check is late and I get assessed a late fee (which so far has happened once in seven years when there was a glitch in the system), I complained and Wachovia refunded me the late fee straight into my account.
In my experience with loads of other places, paying like this works really well - much better than writing a persona check and mailing it. I have yet to run into anyone that does not accept an official bank check sent straight from the bank.
posted by gemmy at 10:45 AM on December 8, 2007
At least this is how it works for me at Wachovia. I have my rent set to pay on the 25th of each month (which adds in some leeway for weekends, holidays, etc.) The check usually gets cut on the 26th, then mailed to my landlord. They usually receive it on the 28th each month, in the form of a bank-issued check, and deposit it on the first. If the check is late and I get assessed a late fee (which so far has happened once in seven years when there was a glitch in the system), I complained and Wachovia refunded me the late fee straight into my account.
In my experience with loads of other places, paying like this works really well - much better than writing a persona check and mailing it. I have yet to run into anyone that does not accept an official bank check sent straight from the bank.
posted by gemmy at 10:45 AM on December 8, 2007
I don't have any specific answers for you, unfortunately, but when I lived in NYC I found that folks on the tenant.net forums were generally pretty knowledgeable and could point me to relevant laws.
posted by Siobhan at 2:27 PM on December 8, 2007
posted by Siobhan at 2:27 PM on December 8, 2007
Checks are not legal tender. They are promissory notes. The only recourse you have is your rental agreement or lease. If it does not specify how you must pay, then I would say that it is in force until it expires. Your only other option is in the old saying that there is strength in numbers. Get the other tenants together and raise a stink.
posted by Gungho at 5:09 PM on December 8, 2007
posted by Gungho at 5:09 PM on December 8, 2007
Personal checks are legal tender.
Personal checks are generally not legal tender.
posted by oaf at 7:54 AM on December 10, 2007
Personal checks are generally not legal tender.
posted by oaf at 7:54 AM on December 10, 2007
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posted by caddis at 7:17 AM on December 8, 2007