wings source of immortality
September 30, 2007 8:04 PM Subscribe
What is the origin of the idea that an angel who loses its wings becomes mortal?
I've seen this happen twice in movies: in Dogma to Affleck's Bartleby, and in Constantine to Swinton's Gabriel. Is this supported by Catholic/Anglican mythology or a more recent development? Who came up with it first and what are some other examples, be it from other religious traditions or popular media?
I've seen this happen twice in movies: in Dogma to Affleck's Bartleby, and in Constantine to Swinton's Gabriel. Is this supported by Catholic/Anglican mythology or a more recent development? Who came up with it first and what are some other examples, be it from other religious traditions or popular media?
The notion is also central to Wings of Desire (1987) and its sequel, but that's just another data point.
posted by zadcat at 8:17 PM on September 30, 2007
posted by zadcat at 8:17 PM on September 30, 2007
It's a pretty self-evident metaphor, is it not? If you lose your wings you can't fly, thus you can't roam the heavens.
posted by randomstriker at 8:53 PM on September 30, 2007
posted by randomstriker at 8:53 PM on September 30, 2007
I'm just a plain old Protestant, but I don't know of a theological origin for the idea (although I'll look around a little). It seems to me, though, that it is the inverse of what I suspect is the older idea, that mortals become angels when they get their wings (i.e. It's a Wonderful Life).
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:02 PM on September 30, 2007
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:02 PM on September 30, 2007
...And that idea goes back at least as far as Dante's Divine Comedy.
"Who do you think that is? He roams our hill before death gives him wings..."
Canto XIV
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:20 PM on September 30, 2007
"Who do you think that is? He roams our hill before death gives him wings..."
Canto XIV
posted by Pater Aletheias at 9:20 PM on September 30, 2007
In Catholic theology Angels are pure spirit so they don't have any kind of material wing that can be cut off (and people don't become Angels in Heaven either).
posted by Jahaza at 10:16 PM on September 30, 2007
posted by Jahaza at 10:16 PM on September 30, 2007
'Raglan Road', a folk song by Patrick Kavanagh, concludes on this stanza:
posted by eritain at 11:30 PM on September 30, 2007
On a quiet street, where old ghosts meet, I see her walking nowDate uncertain, recent enough that there is a recording of Kavanagh himself singing it. And it's an allusion (a pretentious one, at that)—we are not meant to think that he's literally an angel.
Away from me so hurriedly that my reason must allow
That I have wooed, not as I should, a creature made of clay:
When the angel woos the clay, he'll lose his wings at the dawn of day.
posted by eritain at 11:30 PM on September 30, 2007
It was in Sandman; Lucifer cut off his wings when he gave up guardianship of hell and presumably became mortal. I wouldn't be surprised if Gaiman could give an answer. He seems to be quite the font of knowledge about such things and is always answering questions on his blog.
posted by tracicle at 1:51 AM on October 1, 2007
posted by tracicle at 1:51 AM on October 1, 2007
Apparently Milton describes in Paradise Lost how Lucifers wings are torn off as punishment.
posted by jouke at 3:19 AM on October 1, 2007
posted by jouke at 3:19 AM on October 1, 2007
Theologically speaking, from a Catholic point of view, I believe the reasoning is something like this:
Angles, demons, humans, and god are all different classes of spirtitual being. Humans (and at one point god) are the only ones that take on corporeal form. Angles an Demons do not ever become mortal, nor do mortals become angels and demons. The angle/demon population is fixed.
IANAAngelologist
I'd go with Milton as the origin of this particular idea.
posted by phrontist at 7:38 AM on October 1, 2007
Angles, demons, humans, and god are all different classes of spirtitual being. Humans (and at one point god) are the only ones that take on corporeal form. Angles an Demons do not ever become mortal, nor do mortals become angels and demons. The angle/demon population is fixed.
IANAAngelologist
I'd go with Milton as the origin of this particular idea.
posted by phrontist at 7:38 AM on October 1, 2007
Not that I recall, jouke. Lucifer is hurld headlong flaming from th' Ethereal Skie, and then forcibly transformed into a snake at the end, but I don't recall a bit where he specifically gets the wings clipped. He's generally pictured with wings intact.
posted by ormondsacker at 7:45 AM on October 1, 2007
posted by ormondsacker at 7:45 AM on October 1, 2007
Paradise Lost, Book II, Satan and fallen comrades discuss who's going to sneak out of hell to infiltrate Eden:
Who shall tempt with wandering feet / The dark, unbottomed, infinite Abyss, / And through the palpable obscure find out / His uncouth way, or spread his airy flight, / Upborne with indefatigable wings / Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive / The happy Isle?
Wings intact at this point. And then in Book X, when he thinks he's gotten away with the apple thing:
... he wonderd, but not long / Had leasure, wondring at himself now more; / His Visage drawn he felt to sharp and spare, / His Armes clung to his Ribs, his Leggs entwining / Each other, till supplanted down he fell / A monstrous Serpent on his Belly prone, / Reluctant, but in vaine: a greater power / Now rul'd him, punisht in the shape he sin'd, / According to his doom...
Polymorphed, but no wing-ripping.
(My Markov chains should get a lot more interesting now.)
posted by ormondsacker at 8:08 AM on October 1, 2007
Who shall tempt with wandering feet / The dark, unbottomed, infinite Abyss, / And through the palpable obscure find out / His uncouth way, or spread his airy flight, / Upborne with indefatigable wings / Over the vast abrupt, ere he arrive / The happy Isle?
Wings intact at this point. And then in Book X, when he thinks he's gotten away with the apple thing:
... he wonderd, but not long / Had leasure, wondring at himself now more; / His Visage drawn he felt to sharp and spare, / His Armes clung to his Ribs, his Leggs entwining / Each other, till supplanted down he fell / A monstrous Serpent on his Belly prone, / Reluctant, but in vaine: a greater power / Now rul'd him, punisht in the shape he sin'd, / According to his doom...
Polymorphed, but no wing-ripping.
(My Markov chains should get a lot more interesting now.)
posted by ormondsacker at 8:08 AM on October 1, 2007
This online annotation of Sandman
speaks vaguely of 'some texts' that describe the tearing off of Lucifers wings. And explicitly claims that Dante and Milton describe Lucifer with wings.
So that corroborates your argument ormondsacker.
posted by jouke at 9:25 AM on October 1, 2007
speaks vaguely of 'some texts' that describe the tearing off of Lucifers wings. And explicitly claims that Dante and Milton describe Lucifer with wings.
So that corroborates your argument ormondsacker.
posted by jouke at 9:25 AM on October 1, 2007
Response by poster: Thank you for all the answers so far.
I'd like to say that the case can be made for Catholic angels' materiality. Genesis alone has angels impregnating women in chapter 6 (cf Enoch 7), eating and drinking in chapter 18 (Aquinas wonders if they defecate), and dislocating Jacob's hip in chapter 32. And Origen says in book I of On First Principles that “it's God's attribute alone..to exist without any material substance and without any...corporeal addition.” Constantine sidesteps the question by having Gabriel be a hybrid, though his/her wings (and presumably the stubs) are invisible to most. However, the question is who came up with the idea of an angel becoming mortal, specifically by the removal of wings. I wasn't aware of a tradition that Lucifer was mortal. As randomstriker said, no wings means no roaming the heavens. Lucifer, being cast out of Heaven wouldn't need wings. So far looks like we've on only pushed the idea back twenty years. Has anyone watched the DVD version of Wim Wenders' film with the commentary and/or featurette? Perhaps it could shed light on the inspiration for the idea? Or anybody know of an angelology forum?
posted by levijk at 2:50 PM on October 1, 2007
I'd like to say that the case can be made for Catholic angels' materiality. Genesis alone has angels impregnating women in chapter 6 (cf Enoch 7), eating and drinking in chapter 18 (Aquinas wonders if they defecate), and dislocating Jacob's hip in chapter 32. And Origen says in book I of On First Principles that “it's God's attribute alone..to exist without any material substance and without any...corporeal addition.” Constantine sidesteps the question by having Gabriel be a hybrid, though his/her wings (and presumably the stubs) are invisible to most. However, the question is who came up with the idea of an angel becoming mortal, specifically by the removal of wings. I wasn't aware of a tradition that Lucifer was mortal. As randomstriker said, no wings means no roaming the heavens. Lucifer, being cast out of Heaven wouldn't need wings. So far looks like we've on only pushed the idea back twenty years. Has anyone watched the DVD version of Wim Wenders' film with the commentary and/or featurette? Perhaps it could shed light on the inspiration for the idea? Or anybody know of an angelology forum?
posted by levijk at 2:50 PM on October 1, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Artw at 8:11 PM on September 30, 2007