Spit it out

September 19, 2007 8:15 AM

Female 16. When I can expect her "like ummm you know like it's like you know um like really really ... " to you know like abate?
posted by johnny7 to Writing & Language (46 answers total)

When people her age that she interacts with regularly look down on her for it.
posted by phrontist at 8:16 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

(So if you live in SoCal, possibly never - but there is hope on the east coast/midwest/south)
posted by phrontist at 8:17 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

When I was that age, my mother got on my case about a speech habit that irked her (it was "y'know"), and find me a quarter every time she heard me used it. I was cured in two weeks. With inflation, that should be a two-dollar bill, deducted from the, you know, allowance.
posted by beagle at 8:17 AM on September 19, 2007

find: fined, that is, you know.
posted by beagle at 8:18 AM on September 19, 2007

I did that all the time. I like, got over it. In, y'know, like, umm, college.
posted by desjardins at 8:18 AM on September 19, 2007

It's a combination of insecurity and peer language habits. She can't get to the point because she's not even sure what the point is, or if it's the *right* point. And if she gets to the point without taking two hours, she might be ostracized by her friends for her ability to be well-spoken. The teenage years are filled with yearning to communicate and the impossibility of doing so.

Once she gets to college, you'll be overwhelmed with all kinds of high-falutin' language which, while seemingly more direct, is actually even less to the point.
posted by gsh at 8:21 AM on September 19, 2007 [5 favorites]

Probably when she gains a bit more confidence in herself. Perhaps a public speaking class? Either way, it'll take some time and it's probably time she needs, so don't make her feel stupid for doing it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:23 AM on September 19, 2007

Me and my best friend did that for a little while. We got over it very quickly when her dad suddenly busted out with a song about it that I will never forget:

And he was like,
and she was like,
and they were like,
and we were like!

Did I mention he did this in public? Very loudly? On repeat?

Embarrassment: works every time.
posted by sephira at 8:28 AM on September 19, 2007 [8 favorites]

When she is speaking to you (and you alone - there's no need to embarass her in front of others) and reverts to "likes" and "ums" and "yknows"... copy her mannerisms back.

That way she will see just how annoying it is!
posted by elkerette at 8:28 AM on September 19, 2007

That's an awkward age. Remember? Why don't you try to understand she's not really sure how to sound like an adult, and probably isn't very confident. Instead of embarrassing her or making her feel even more like a child, try telling her something like: Talking that way makes her sound less intelligent than you know she really is, so she should try to be aware of it and phase it out for her own good?
posted by white light at 8:34 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

Start talking like that around her friends.
posted by C17H19NO3 at 8:41 AM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]

The way I grew out of it is I realized how often my friends were doing it which lead me to listen to myself. I started counting how often I did it and when I spoke I was more aware of it and able to “like” stop.

I stopped because I thought it sounded unintelligent so it really is a personal thing. I agree with the others that you shouldn’t make her feel bad…she’ll stop when she is ready, but probably not till college when she gets around new people.
posted by doorsfan at 8:54 AM on September 19, 2007

I'm just curious - has she shown herself to be absolutely UNABLE, even when trying her hardest, to communicate in a more formal manner? That is, when giving an oral report in school, or on a job interview, or when talking to parents' colleagues, is she able to speak like a mature, intelligent, expressive young adult?

Because if my assumption is correct and she CAN communicate "correctly" when the circumstances demand, I think you should stop obsessing and let her speak informally (i.e. with peers, close family, on her "own time") the way she chooses. As long as she knows she can't speak this way in a job interview, or to adults from whom she expects respect, etc., she's not causing self-harm. Sure, maybe it's annoying, but...not nag-worthy.

On the other hand, if she proves UNABLE to control it (ask teachers? does she have a part time job? take her to dinner with a close adult friend and watch her?), then debate classes or speech classes, or perhaps more simply time spent volunteering or otherwise working with fairly normal, educated adults who do NOT speak this way, may be enough to jump start her how of the "like, you know" phase.
posted by bunnycup at 8:57 AM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]

Maybe never. Quotative "like" and "all" ("She's like...and then he's all...") and similar constructions are good grammar to me (Male 18). They're marked as "uneducated" by anyone a generation older, and I wouldn't write "He was like..." in formal writing, but don't wait around for her to stop using a perfectly useful word. And nobody in the world talks without particles like "umm" and "uh" unless they are reading off a teleprompter.
posted by silby at 9:06 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

I had to move a few hours away from where I grew up to get it out of my own system. It's a hard habit to break when you're surrounded by other people doing it.

When I was on the job, it generally never came out as much though. So in time she will probably learn to cater her language to what's appropriate to each situation. I still say like & umm too much, but the frequency depends on my environment. When I'm in San Diego it much easier to find myself speaking that way than when I'm in other places. Or if I get excited about something, and then the "Oh my God!s! STILL will occasionally escape out of me to my own embarrassment. But it tapers off with age, so don't worry.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:13 AM on September 19, 2007

What really kicked my "umm" habit was a friend who would add "brella" to the end of it whenever I said it. Which was actually more annoying than saying "umm" if you ask me. But it worked.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:14 AM on September 19, 2007 [6 favorites]

But it tapers off with age, so don't worry.

I thought it should taper off with age too until I was on the bus sitting beside a pretty, business-attired woman overhearing her use the word "like" two to three times in one breath. I tried to ignore it though she was talking loudly and I grimaced when I heard her tell her friend she was 30.

I'm with phrontist on this one.
posted by KathyK at 9:22 AM on September 19, 2007

"Female 16."

Is this person whose diction upsets you so a daughter, a girlfriend, or a lab rat in an experiment? Tell her you'll stop speaking in fragments if she gives up the umms.
posted by Legomancer at 9:26 AM on September 19, 2007 [5 favorites]

Well, I was trying to be encouraging... I figure if I could kick it, anyone could. But I'm pretty much with phrontist.
posted by miss lynnster at 9:44 AM on September 19, 2007

The moment a boy she is interested in insinuates that he finds that kind of thing unattractive. Especially is he is older than she is.

Other than that--has she ever recorded herself? If she hears herself on tape, that could also do the trick.
posted by misha at 10:01 AM on September 19, 2007

21/f & in socal here.

I was never as bad as the example you gave, but sometime around 16 or 17 (I picked it up somewhere around 13 I guess) I realized what an ineloquent dumbass it made me sound like. I still have the unfortunate "And he was like" or "She was all" when I'm really into a story I'm telling, but the number of "likes" and "ums" have been reduced greatly. FWIW: I was on the Debate team, so it was a lot more obvious how lame "like um yeah so" sounded in the middle of an intense argument.

She'll probably stop when she realizes how dumb it makes her sound, and hopefully she'll feel the need to stop.

Then again, I still have A LOT of friends who talk like that....but like phrontist said: I live in socal.
posted by mittenedsex at 10:08 AM on September 19, 2007

To comment further on silby's point is that serious grammarians have found a use for the 'quotative like'. With that said as this person enters into situations where formal speech is called for, she will generally pick up the hints that she isn't necessarily communicating in the best way possible. Then again not everyone is a masterful oral communicator so take that with a grain of salt.
posted by mmascolino at 10:15 AM on September 19, 2007

I got rid of my umms for good when I took a public speaking class. Every time we said "like" or "um" or "uh," one point was deducted from our grade for that speech. There were some people in our class whose speech should have been an A but after all the umms they were dropped down to a B or B+ or even a C+. Maybe a modified version of this where you simply count the number of times she says these things would work - I was horrified to see how much I did it once it was broken down numerically.
posted by gatorae at 10:16 AM on September 19, 2007

I was pretty bad about the likes and all that in my teens and early 20s but since I've been more in the adult world, shall we say, I've cut down, a lot. Not completely but I think I do sound like less of an idiot at this point. I record a lot of interviews, too, and wow, it makes me cringe to hear how often I say "um" or "like."

My sister is 21 and she is still all over the likes. It's almost impossible to understand her sometimes. But I beg of you, do not do what my mom does and interrupt your 16-year-old for every other word to chastise her about using "like" too much.
posted by sutel at 10:21 AM on September 19, 2007

Whenever I said "y'know..", my mom would pipe up with "No! I don't know.. tell me!"
posted by clh at 10:31 AM on September 19, 2007

I'm with bunnycup - I used to speak that way around friends and casual company when I was in high school, because that's just the way most teenagers talk. However, at job interviews or in presentations I dropped the "like"s and "y'know"s because they clearly weren't appropriate. Like most teens, she will eventually realize that this colloquial speech is rarely appropriate, and she will probably outgrow this on her own.

I don't know what relation this girl is to you, but if I may be honest, some of the silly tactics other posters have mentioned (imitating it back, trying to embarrass it out of her) would just have made me write you off as one more adult who doesn't respect me enough to be direct with me, and I would not listen to or respect you. Relating to one's peers is just as much about the 'how' as the 'what,' and furthermore sixteen year olds don't always know what they're trying to say; if you don't remember that from your own youth, then you probably don't have enough credibility with this girl to influence her anyway. Just set an example by always being articulate and respectful when you speak to her, and if she's receptive, she'll catch on.

In fact, always being articulate and respectful is good advice for dealing with teens in general. They may not seem like they notice, but the only adults I looked up to at that age all had that in common.
posted by AV at 10:57 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hmm. I think there's a lot more subtlety to this, potentially, than most respondents are acknowledging.

Saying "like" and "umm" a lot are, in my recent work experience, a way of "softening" what's being said—saying them can certainly be a tic or an expression of insecurity, as many have noted above, but just as often serves as a simple conversational/social lubricant, a way of saying "I'm not above you. I'm nice."

Especially in teen society, or in industries where workers are expected to enact youthful mannerisms to be "cool" or stay "in touch," speaking without such affectations can actually read as an act of conversational aggression. Clear speech renders the speaker suspect: It alternately reads as naïveté, phoniness or as a willful affectation—in the latter instance coming off as though the speaker is saying, "I'm too good to speak like you" or "I'm smarter than you."

Clear speech is a way of asserting confidence, intelligence and authority; in many cases, such speech constitutes a subtle overstepping of bounds. Avoidance of such oversteps is the same impulse that informs that whole upward-lilting-question-mark often placed at the ends of sentences in so-called "Valley speech."

Few people are completely aware of how these diction shifts inform their conversational standing, though. We all shift between these various "voices" in everyday interactions—learning how to use them to our advantage, and in the right situation, is a key part of establishing a professional demeanor.

So in short, it makes sense that a teenage girl would speak this way; there's only a problem when it bleeds over into areas where clear speech is expected.

And even then, as noted above, sometimes it can be a useful device even in environments where clear speech is generally the norm.

I find myself slipping into this more conversationally submissive mode, feigning a bit of extra humility or naïvete, for instance, when I have to ask a supervisor a particularly damning question or wish to shift responsibility to another party. I'd say something like, "So I was wondering if, you know, we'd heard anything from Toby, 'cause I hired him to, like, shoot this event for us, but ... I haven't heard back from him, so I was just kinda wondering what I should do?" as opposed to "What the hell is wrong with Toby? I hired him to shoot this event and it's been five days now and I haven't seen any photos. I'm never working with him again!"

Taking this mode allows both me and my supervisor to save face in the situation, as they can then take charge without it seeming like they're infringing upon responsibility they've ceded to me or disrespecting me in some way—because I've taken the role of the inexperienced one by my tone, whether I'm actually inexperienced in the matter at hand or not.

Sometimes, this is how things get done.

(A related phenomenon, one I'm still exploring the intricacies of, concerns adult women who wear babydoll dresses and kitten heels to work (usually in creative fields), use "Valley speak" and generally infantilize themselves for—well, for reasons I currently don't completely understand. I'll get back to y'all on that. ;)
posted by limeonaire at 11:03 AM on September 19, 2007 [10 favorites]

I don't think college is the cure for using "like."

I went to a college in SoCal and even professors used "like" and "um."
posted by PinkButterfly at 11:21 AM on September 19, 2007

My boss uses them, just like Barack Obama does.
posted by rhizome at 11:45 AM on September 19, 2007

Well here is some hope for you. My 19 year old daughter still does this a little bit (no where near the frequency of her 16 year old sister) when talking to me, a bit more when she is talking to friends and RARELY when she is speaking to an employer, a professor or one of my friends. I don't think I saw much of a progression in the frequency when speaking to me until she went away to college (she is a sophomore at NYU).
posted by bluesky43 at 11:52 AM on September 19, 2007

Um (the book) explores why this conversation is so charged for so many people.
posted by umbú at 12:27 PM on September 19, 2007

Playing back an audio recording might be a little harsh. I know my "you know" habit was broken when I read a transcript of me speaking.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:35 PM on September 19, 2007

In her former job, my wife supervised undergraduate students at a university in California. (UCSB, for anyone keeping score). At some point, she just told her students she had no idea what they were saying. A student replied that this is "how we communicate," at which point my wife (who had a good relationship with the students) cracked a joke about a total failure to communicate. They actually got better about it after that. (At least around her).

My point is that it doesn't necessarily go away on its own, but most of the time, pointing it out nicely isn't a bad thing.
posted by JMOZ at 12:50 PM on September 19, 2007

When her language classes start teaching her something a little more difficult :) Usually teenage girls grow out of this around 18/19 as they head off to college and the "ditzy" thing is kind of looked down upon in the higher educational world.

(You can't really give a presentation with tons of likes or ums and be taken seriously)
posted by PetiePal at 1:41 PM on September 19, 2007

If she's, like, also, yknow, like uptalking? Like every statement? is , like, a question? Just shoot her now.

I guess I'm kidding.

I agree with everyone who says to make yourself a nuisance. Grownups don't talk like this. Call her on it every time. Call her friends on it. Make her restate. Tell her if she talks like that now, college interviews are going to go very very badly.

Also try to put her in situations with people who don't talk like that-- family dinners, worship groups, theater programs, community service volunteering, whatever. If that's all she hears, because she's hanging out with no one but other teens who talk like that, then that is what she'll model.
posted by nax at 2:10 PM on September 19, 2007

We got over it very quickly when her dad suddenly busted out with a song about it that I will never forget

You need to post this on MeFi Music ASAP.
posted by sparkletone at 3:03 PM on September 19, 2007

I grew up in the Midwest and like, um, you know? Talked like this? When I was, um, 16? My parents used the mockery/mimicry tactic, and all it did was make me that much less willing to talk to or around them. It is still a sore spot in my memories.

I don't mean to be like "poor me got her poor ickle feewings hurt," but I do think that generally mimicry is a disrespectful way of making a point when you're talking to someone who is old enough to understand logic. I may have been 16, but I wasn't an idiot; I would have much preferred my parents sitting me down and explaining, in a rational way, that speaking more formally would help me present myself in a more adult way and that people would take me more seriously if I didn't "uptalk."

Maybe if they had done that and I still, like um, you know, talked like this, the "nuisance" tactic would have been more successful. But because they approached it like something that I was doing on purpose because I was ignorant and immature, I didn't want to "give in" and improve my speech.

I grew out of it in my later high school and early college years, especially as I met more new people, had to do more presentations, had to talk to college professors, interviewed for jobs, etc. Today, at 26, I get lots of compliments on the way I speak -- even from my parents, occasionally.
posted by korres at 4:14 PM on September 19, 2007

Yes, silby, but, you know, like, old people used to talk, like, all crappy too, um, but we got over it.

If you want to sound intelligent to people older than 18, then you need to adjust your speaking appropriately.

And, I would suspect, in 10 years, you, too, will look back on your "and she was like" years and groan.
posted by MythMaker at 4:15 PM on September 19, 2007

I think waiting and hoping as a strategy might be futile. Some people in their late 20s and early 30s, who publish podcasts, retain what sound to me like adolescent speech patterns. From what I gather, it's not worth the apparently considerable effort required to self edit these mannerisms.

For the record, my parents and grandparents teased me and my siblings mercilessly about such things, and I, for one, am still grateful to them, 40 years on. My sister, on the other hand, still cannot string together coherent sentences of more than 10 words without "spacers" and dreck such as the "quotative like." I cringe to hear her, but she's stuck with it, now, heading into her fifties, as she is with her questionable taste in jeans and her 3 pack a day smoking habit. And, more's the pity, her younger kids are mimics of it, too, and are now layering their own speech breaks, on top of her characteristic tics which they've picked up as "family" speech, as they come into adolescence. It takes them forever to say the simplest things.
posted by paulsc at 5:54 PM on September 19, 2007

I think I'd encourage and praise her when she communicates clearly, and focus on the times when she does this well.

I would also suggest that when she speaks to adults--teachers, parents, bosses, strangers--that she make the effort to be as articulate as possible. Don't bug her when she talks to peers this way.

I'm a teacher, and find this standard flies pretty well in a school context. Most kids can pull out complete, non-slang sentences when asked to on a regular basis. I've also had luck with saying, "I don't understand what you're trying to get across. Could you be clearer?" They know this means to drop the stammers and slang, and it allows them to practice in rising to the occasion, which I'd say is something that should be occurring regularly at age 16.
posted by Riverine at 6:15 PM on September 19, 2007

Speech 101 (or Public Speaking, whichever one it's called.)

Most GE requirements in college call for Speech or Interpersonal Communication. If she's taking early community college classes, prod her in the direction of speech. I'm sure they have Speech in high school too, though it's probably a rare elective.

(After I took Speech, I instantly dropped my SoCal like like like like um you know tics. The teacher pretty much hammered in what was professional and what was not, and how to be taken seriously.)
posted by Xere at 8:48 PM on September 19, 2007

Give her a copy of Taylor Mali's "Like Lilly, Like Wilson".
posted by brujita at 9:25 PM on September 19, 2007

tape a conversation with the whole family, and play it back. i bet she'll get the point.
posted by twistofrhyme at 10:21 PM on September 19, 2007

Uptalk: not just for valley girls.

And quotative like is short for "said something like", more or less.

That said, these things are not what johnny7 is asking about, which are instead space filling words and phrases, something which is not limited in any way, shape, or form to any particular group or subculture. Some people stop it, some people change to different space fillers, but there's no timeline for these things. If it's specific words and useages that bother you, there's hope. But very often, it's not a matter of becoming more articulate, it's a matter of appearing more articulate while actually saying the same amount of content, which is an entirely different issue.
posted by Arturus at 11:56 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

i went to a college that, during my freshman year, was featured by a major news show as an environment that highlighted the current generation's inability to speak properly (like um ya know) even at a prestigious private college. In response to this, one professor I had, assigned us all public speaking assignments each week -- up to a half an hour in length, and during our reports, she would count how many times we said each "unacceptable word" such as like or um. Then she would write it up on the blackboard, old school style, the count for each word for each student (small class) and compare to the week before. Each word at first garned a quarter point off the grade on 100pt scale at first and each week each that value was raised a bit more till each use of a word was 2 or 3 points off the assignment!!

She also taught us that those words are used to gain time when you're trying to figure out what to say next, even a second or two delay to gather thoughts. Just pausing when you're thinking usually sounds better. Instead of saying um, just stop and take a breath, think for one moment. 3 seconds of silence is no big deal. It gets easier.
posted by Soulbee at 6:25 AM on September 20, 2007

Thirding debate, although it's really not for every kid... We were a special kind of dork. I joined the team at 14 and gutteral space fillers drive me so crazy I was the only person who not once got to "go to the party" during a round of the "Red Umbrella Game." (This is a game where you can only "go" if the item you choose to bring is preceded by "um.") Drove me absolutely bonkers when Patsy broke down and told me what the deal was. She had realized I would never get to "go."

Debate is especially helpful if the team/class videotapes practice rounds. It's pretty brutal the first few times you see yourself on screen, picking at the hem of your shirt, rubbing the forehead, and hearing the...stuff you say. But it gets better.
posted by bilabial at 6:58 PM on September 24, 2007