where to buy plutonium for time machine
September 11, 2007 3:26 PM Subscribe
Lent money to a friend; now things are weird.
Ran into a friend a couple months ago who was unemployed and had only nine days to come up with rent. I empathized with her because I've been in that situation. We chatted and went our separate ways. We're both poor but I realized I was in a position to help because my rent is cheaper and I don't socialize as much. That night I called and offered to pay her rent for the coming month. She was pounding the pavement and I knew her to be a responsible individual. She said it would be weird though, and had already decided to sell her car. I let her know that my offer was still an option. A few days later she called me back and with a hangdog tone accepted the offer. I assured her it would not be weird—I'd once loaned to a mutual friend and it had been fine. We didn't discuss how or when she'd pay me back, but not long afterward she got a job and set a date for just that. More or less on the date she promised I got a text inviting me to dinner to thank me and to pay back the loan. I was in the middle of a depression and wasn't returning calls. I texted her back a week later thanking her for the invitation and apologizing for taking so long to reply--I explained I was in full-on hermit mode (she knows this about me) but would let her know when I came out of the cave. A week after that I was walking downtown and saw her across the street with her sister. I waved but they didn't see me and I really wasn't in a talkative mood so I didn't pursue them. Then yesterday I saw her on the same street as I but a block away. I believe she saw me because she immediately whipped out her cell and dashed across two streets in what I can only assume was an effort to avoid me.
I feel bad about this. The whole point of paying her rent was to ease anxiety, not cause it. I've put no pressure on her. Maybe in the interim between our texts she spent the money and doesn't know how to tell me this? It's not a big deal; I really won't need the money until wintercapitalismfestival. My gut instinct is to just pretend I never saw her on the street and wait until we inevitably bump into one another (it's really not a large town). Then I thought of sending her a card saying there was nothing to worry about and that she could make incremental payments directly into my bank account whenever she had some extra cash.
What does the hive mind think I should do?
Ran into a friend a couple months ago who was unemployed and had only nine days to come up with rent. I empathized with her because I've been in that situation. We chatted and went our separate ways. We're both poor but I realized I was in a position to help because my rent is cheaper and I don't socialize as much. That night I called and offered to pay her rent for the coming month. She was pounding the pavement and I knew her to be a responsible individual. She said it would be weird though, and had already decided to sell her car. I let her know that my offer was still an option. A few days later she called me back and with a hangdog tone accepted the offer. I assured her it would not be weird—I'd once loaned to a mutual friend and it had been fine. We didn't discuss how or when she'd pay me back, but not long afterward she got a job and set a date for just that. More or less on the date she promised I got a text inviting me to dinner to thank me and to pay back the loan. I was in the middle of a depression and wasn't returning calls. I texted her back a week later thanking her for the invitation and apologizing for taking so long to reply--I explained I was in full-on hermit mode (she knows this about me) but would let her know when I came out of the cave. A week after that I was walking downtown and saw her across the street with her sister. I waved but they didn't see me and I really wasn't in a talkative mood so I didn't pursue them. Then yesterday I saw her on the same street as I but a block away. I believe she saw me because she immediately whipped out her cell and dashed across two streets in what I can only assume was an effort to avoid me.
I feel bad about this. The whole point of paying her rent was to ease anxiety, not cause it. I've put no pressure on her. Maybe in the interim between our texts she spent the money and doesn't know how to tell me this? It's not a big deal; I really won't need the money until wintercapitalismfestival. My gut instinct is to just pretend I never saw her on the street and wait until we inevitably bump into one another (it's really not a large town). Then I thought of sending her a card saying there was nothing to worry about and that she could make incremental payments directly into my bank account whenever she had some extra cash.
What does the hive mind think I should do?
IMHO, you don't loan money to friends except when it's part of a shared expense (ex: you and three friends are on a road trip. The driver fills up the tank on the way back, but you're out of cash. You can pay the friend back next week, and must).
If it's not a shared expense, it's not a loan. You gift the money to them, and maybe you'll get it back. So, IMHO, you shouldn't send a reminder with a repayment schedule. If you expected to get the money back -- even if your friend gave you a date when she'd be able to repay -- you shouldn't have given the money.
That's how I handle it, anyway, and it never gets weird. Yes, I've been out of pocket for a couple of grand over the last twenty years or so. If I couldn't have justified it, I wouldn't have helped out.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:31 PM on September 11, 2007 [3 favorites]
If it's not a shared expense, it's not a loan. You gift the money to them, and maybe you'll get it back. So, IMHO, you shouldn't send a reminder with a repayment schedule. If you expected to get the money back -- even if your friend gave you a date when she'd be able to repay -- you shouldn't have given the money.
That's how I handle it, anyway, and it never gets weird. Yes, I've been out of pocket for a couple of grand over the last twenty years or so. If I couldn't have justified it, I wouldn't have helped out.
posted by solid-one-love at 3:31 PM on September 11, 2007 [3 favorites]
You're not getting your money back, and most likely you're not getting your friend back either. I'm sorry.
posted by nasreddin at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2007
posted by nasreddin at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2007
A little pessimistic, nasreddin? Geez! I agree with xmutex--you're reading into someone's behaviour not only without talking to them first, but from a block away. You know what they say about assuming...but I won't go into that. Just call her to announce you emergence from hermitage, and resume your relationship. You might even get your money right back. Don't worry so much (easier said than done, I know).
posted by SixteenTons at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2007
posted by SixteenTons at 3:40 PM on September 11, 2007
xmutex has it.
It's not fair to your friend, or to your relationship with her, to assume the worst based on the chance that she saw you a block away.
You owe it to her to call or text her - you promised to let her know when you 'came out of your cave'. Don't mention the money if you think there will be weirdness...give her a chance to bring it up if that's what's causing you anxiety.
posted by puddleglum at 4:02 PM on September 11, 2007
It's not fair to your friend, or to your relationship with her, to assume the worst based on the chance that she saw you a block away.
You owe it to her to call or text her - you promised to let her know when you 'came out of your cave'. Don't mention the money if you think there will be weirdness...give her a chance to bring it up if that's what's causing you anxiety.
posted by puddleglum at 4:02 PM on September 11, 2007
Yes - call her cheerfully, say you're sorry you've been hermiting, you'd love to see her, how's she doing, let's get dinner sometime this week.
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2007
posted by LobsterMitten at 4:13 PM on September 11, 2007
I'm the kind of person who likes socializing and doesn't really understand the idea of becoming a hermit in order to emotionally recharge, because that's not what I do. But I have a few friends who do this. If they want to disappear, I leave them alone. If I try to reinitiate any form of contact, chances are they'll blow me off again. And I hate that, so I stop trying. I figure they'll contact me when they're good and ready. In the meantime I have other friends to focus on.
I know I can't speak for your friend or pretend to know how she feels, but if I'm in her shoes, I'm not weirded out by the fact I'm in your debt, I'm weirded out because you're the one that's avoiding me.
posted by lou at 4:24 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know I can't speak for your friend or pretend to know how she feels, but if I'm in her shoes, I'm not weirded out by the fact I'm in your debt, I'm weirded out because you're the one that's avoiding me.
posted by lou at 4:24 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
1) Forget about the money. If it turns up, be happy, but otherwise forget it. That has proven the best way for me in similar situations.
2) Call her or send her a text message or a post card or whatever and reschedule dinner as others have noted, but make sure to tell her that money is not the subject of the dinner, but her friendship is and you are glad she is doing well.
Even though she got at job, finances are not certain to follow along as well, so really take into account 1).
-- And be happy that you did the right thing in helping when she needed it.
posted by KimG at 4:35 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
2) Call her or send her a text message or a post card or whatever and reschedule dinner as others have noted, but make sure to tell her that money is not the subject of the dinner, but her friendship is and you are glad she is doing well.
Even though she got at job, finances are not certain to follow along as well, so really take into account 1).
-- And be happy that you did the right thing in helping when she needed it.
posted by KimG at 4:35 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Couldn't the explanation for her avoiding you be that she is giving you the space you said you wanted, until further notice. It doesn't sound like you have givenher that further notice yet.
posted by Good Brain at 4:47 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Good Brain at 4:47 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Text her and reschedule dinner, but don't apologize for your hermit- like behavior as there's nothing to apologize for. You did your part when you explained your situation to her and said that you'd get back to her when you felt better.
As for the money, you're creating weirdness around the loan where there is potentially none. You haven't even contacted her to tell her that you're available to receive the money. And since she's already tried to give it back, I'd wager she's good for it. As a courtesy, in case she's going to be broke for a while, let her pick the date for the dinner. Don't mention the money.
If, however, you're not really sure when/if you're going to be up for having a potentially awkward dinner/money handover, I would be honest, tell her that, and ask her if she wouldn't mind just giving you the money when she was able, perhaps saying straight out that you won't really need it until thatholidaythatllofyousuckerscelebrate. From your post, it seems that even if she doesn't understand, she is, at least, aware of how you are.
A loan is a loan, not a gift, so don't count it as a loss. Part of being a responsible and respectful human being is paying back your debts, especially to friends. Just like part of being a friend is being lenient about how long that might take. But, really, for all you know, she's just waiting for your call and/or thinks you're avoiding her or are upset with her.
posted by eunoia at 4:59 PM on September 11, 2007
As for the money, you're creating weirdness around the loan where there is potentially none. You haven't even contacted her to tell her that you're available to receive the money. And since she's already tried to give it back, I'd wager she's good for it. As a courtesy, in case she's going to be broke for a while, let her pick the date for the dinner. Don't mention the money.
If, however, you're not really sure when/if you're going to be up for having a potentially awkward dinner/money handover, I would be honest, tell her that, and ask her if she wouldn't mind just giving you the money when she was able, perhaps saying straight out that you won't really need it until thatholidaythatllofyousuckerscelebrate. From your post, it seems that even if she doesn't understand, she is, at least, aware of how you are.
A loan is a loan, not a gift, so don't count it as a loss. Part of being a responsible and respectful human being is paying back your debts, especially to friends. Just like part of being a friend is being lenient about how long that might take. But, really, for all you know, she's just waiting for your call and/or thinks you're avoiding her or are upset with her.
posted by eunoia at 4:59 PM on September 11, 2007
Then yesterday I saw her on the same street as I but a block away. I believe she saw me because she immediately whipped out her cell and dashed across two streets in what I can only assume was an effort to avoid me.
Until you said the above line, I saw nothing to be concerned about -- and the above line is making an assumption that can also be explained by her giving you your space as requested, or by you being just plain wrong. In short, it's not weird, and you should relax -- but invite her out to dinner soon, and see if she brings it up (based on her behavior to date, she probably will, and if she doesn't, you shouldn't either -- save it for later.)
posted by davejay at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2007
Until you said the above line, I saw nothing to be concerned about -- and the above line is making an assumption that can also be explained by her giving you your space as requested, or by you being just plain wrong. In short, it's not weird, and you should relax -- but invite her out to dinner soon, and see if she brings it up (based on her behavior to date, she probably will, and if she doesn't, you shouldn't either -- save it for later.)
posted by davejay at 5:00 PM on September 11, 2007
First off, I agree 100% with xmutex. I don't see much of a problem, so go invite her out to dinner.
That said, you should follow or at least consider a cardinal rule: never lend money to friends, unless you consider it a gift and don't expect to get it back. That rule is in my book right under "don't do business with friends" for very similar reasons.
posted by Meagan at 5:29 PM on September 11, 2007
That said, you should follow or at least consider a cardinal rule: never lend money to friends, unless you consider it a gift and don't expect to get it back. That rule is in my book right under "don't do business with friends" for very similar reasons.
posted by Meagan at 5:29 PM on September 11, 2007
Best answer: Normally I would say forget about the money. That is the knee-jerk AskMetafilter reaction to "How do I get my money back from a friend?"
But that only applies in situation where the loan-giver is having trouble, and you don't seem to be having any. I agree with those who say you're reading WAY too much into this, and haven't given your friend enough credit. Why is it not possible she's waiting for you to call her and re-emerge as you said you would? Give her a call, reschedule dinner, and return when you actually have an issue to deal with.
Is it possible that your reluctance to socialize is leading you towards sizing up the situation in a way that will prevent you from going out for dinner or interacting with her in a friendly manner?
posted by Anonymous at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2007
But that only applies in situation where the loan-giver is having trouble, and you don't seem to be having any. I agree with those who say you're reading WAY too much into this, and haven't given your friend enough credit. Why is it not possible she's waiting for you to call her and re-emerge as you said you would? Give her a call, reschedule dinner, and return when you actually have an issue to deal with.
Is it possible that your reluctance to socialize is leading you towards sizing up the situation in a way that will prevent you from going out for dinner or interacting with her in a friendly manner?
posted by Anonymous at 6:33 PM on September 11, 2007
I agree with solid-one-love, the only way to lend money to friends is internally consider it a gift. If you can truly convince yourself it is a gift, there is no way to be disappointed, there is no awkward having to ask for it back, etc...I have done this many times over the years - I would say that I typically get repaid 75% of the time. However, one person I lent $10k to paid me back $30k. ( I basically gave him his down payment on his house, and the house ended up appreciating a great deal - so he (unprompted, of course) let me share in the profits.) So all together I think I'm pretty even with this lending strategy. Obviously, I think it would have been better to be able to decide this gift-not-a-loan position prior to lending the money - however I don't think it's too late to take adopt this posture. I would just make yourself "pretend" this loan never happened, even if you really need the money. I would not ask for the money, bring it up, act weird, just go back to business as usual. She clearly knows she owes you the money and in my experience (at least with my circle of friends) the less you appear to be keeping track of this, the more it sort of forces them to own the closure of the debt. People typically are going to either pay you back or not, I think how or how much you talk about it, probably makes little difference in the likelihood or timing of the pay back.
posted by ill3 at 7:08 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ill3 at 7:08 PM on September 11, 2007 [1 favorite]
Never, ever, ever lend money to a friend. Seriously. No, I'm not kidding. I made this mistake and it was a disaster. If a friend needs money either just give it to them or don't give it to them.
Really, I can't emphasize this enough. Don't lend money to friends.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on September 11, 2007
Really, I can't emphasize this enough. Don't lend money to friends.
posted by Justinian at 7:33 PM on September 11, 2007
Response by poster: MeFites: you're the best. All the advice was helpful (with the exception of nasreddin's...thank you nonetheless ).
Very insightful, schroedinger. danke
posted by levijk at 10:26 PM on September 11, 2007
Very insightful, schroedinger. danke
posted by levijk at 10:26 PM on September 11, 2007
I answered, read the other answers, and decided that I agree with them and not me. Then I flagged my own answer.
Sorry for shitting in your AskMe.
posted by nasreddin at 10:46 PM on September 11, 2007
Sorry for shitting in your AskMe.
posted by nasreddin at 10:46 PM on September 11, 2007
I asked a similar question a while back
and i have to say, a year or so later, that mefi was right. I would never get the money back. I didnt. I lost a friend. She however lost an entire network of friends.
posted by daveyt at 4:50 AM on September 12, 2007
and i have to say, a year or so later, that mefi was right. I would never get the money back. I didnt. I lost a friend. She however lost an entire network of friends.
posted by daveyt at 4:50 AM on September 12, 2007
Have you considered that rather than trying to avoid you - she actually got a call and was ducking off somewhere quieter to take it?
If she saw you then maybe she's feeling weird too and thinks you're avoiding her too - I mean, you did say you would let her know when you're out and about again and unless you've missed that part from your post, you haven't done that.
She might think that you just don't want to see her.
But its your move. She made the gesture of inviting you to dinner and you declined - so its now your turn, when you're ready and feeling up to it. Send her a text or give her a call to arrange it and don't mention the money. If she's got it she'll pay you back. If she's spent it in the meantime then you just have a nice dinner with your friend and she knows that there is no pressure.
posted by missmagenta at 8:19 AM on September 12, 2007
If she saw you then maybe she's feeling weird too and thinks you're avoiding her too - I mean, you did say you would let her know when you're out and about again and unless you've missed that part from your post, you haven't done that.
She might think that you just don't want to see her.
But its your move. She made the gesture of inviting you to dinner and you declined - so its now your turn, when you're ready and feeling up to it. Send her a text or give her a call to arrange it and don't mention the money. If she's got it she'll pay you back. If she's spent it in the meantime then you just have a nice dinner with your friend and she knows that there is no pressure.
posted by missmagenta at 8:19 AM on September 12, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by xmutex at 3:31 PM on September 11, 2007 [3 favorites]