Boutique Amps and Sane Alternatives
May 4, 2007 8:31 PM Subscribe
TubeAmpFilter: Class A? Hand wired? Boutique? Does this stuff matter? I just want a decent, reliable loudener for <$1K, but all these heartfelt testimonials abt the glory of weird little expensive-ass amps have me wondering...
The guitar/amp/etc. forums are useless here because they're so caught up in the minutiae that distinguish one $3000 amp from another. I need input from a larger pond!
Potentially Relevant Stuff:
play a Stratocaster and an EBMM Axis (hardtail, no Floyd--which I think is a highly relevant detail); would use said amp (mic'd) for shows sometimes; don't require Crunchy Metal Overdrive; would like to get that gooey, overdriven "brown" tone.
The guitar/amp/etc. forums are useless here because they're so caught up in the minutiae that distinguish one $3000 amp from another. I need input from a larger pond!
Potentially Relevant Stuff:
play a Stratocaster and an EBMM Axis (hardtail, no Floyd--which I think is a highly relevant detail); would use said amp (mic'd) for shows sometimes; don't require Crunchy Metal Overdrive; would like to get that gooey, overdriven "brown" tone.
dog food sugar's boyfriend here:
If you happen to find a GA-40 somewhere - you can still find them for around $1000 - they have that chocolate sound you're looking for. But vintage guys are jumping on these and I've noticed the price has gone up lately. Also Vintage Guitar Magazine just did a story on them (Chocolate Godzilla) so people are going to snatch these up.
If those are too hard to find check out fender hotrod deluxe or de ville series. They've got impressive, nice tone straight out of the box. You can find these and the blues deluxe series on ebay for under $1000.
posted by dog food sugar at 9:21 PM on May 4, 2007
If you happen to find a GA-40 somewhere - you can still find them for around $1000 - they have that chocolate sound you're looking for. But vintage guys are jumping on these and I've noticed the price has gone up lately. Also Vintage Guitar Magazine just did a story on them (Chocolate Godzilla) so people are going to snatch these up.
If those are too hard to find check out fender hotrod deluxe or de ville series. They've got impressive, nice tone straight out of the box. You can find these and the blues deluxe series on ebay for under $1000.
posted by dog food sugar at 9:21 PM on May 4, 2007
first off, some debunking. with the caveat that i've been known to be the guitar-forum type.
music man amps are hybrids, and not all tube. few, if any, are the situations where a _vintage_ hybrid amp makes any sense these days. one of the only hybrids that actually kicked ass, the Marshall 3203, has been relegated to the annals due to a proprietary transformer suddenly becoming unavailable.
the only time i've ever seen an amp actually straight up catch fire, smoke pouring out of the input jacks and everything, was a music man. hence, i'd avoid them.
i'd proceed with caution on anything vintage, for the most part. even the most reliable old stuff will no doubt need some work, so you have to factor some bench time, parts, new set of tubes and all that- into the already premium price for 'vintage.' plus they're not intrinsically better, i had a 68 twin reverb, and i could rattle off many things i didn't like about it. gibson amps do represent a good value in that particular domain- also the gibson goldtone amps, little class a things that look like they belong on the set of Cheers, made by Trace Elliott in the mid 90s, positively kick ass.
the obsession with little expensive-ass low wattage amps is simply the fashion right now: most of the forum-types are not really gigging players, and if they are, it's no doubt an srv/trower tribute band with regular gigs at Borders. hence, their needs are decent overdrive at low volumes. but since their taste in guitars rarely deviates from vintage and/or expensive and/or 'boutique'- your PRSes and Fender Custom Shops, your Andersons and Suhrs, they feel inadequate playing through a Peavey or 'regular' Fender, despite the fact that it would fit the bill. same thing with effects: no weekend warrior is going to be using DOD or Boss pedals, so the $300 Fuzz Face was born. yeah, Class A can be cool, so can handwired amps... it's not always a requirement. Many kickass guitar tracks were cut with non class-a amps (most Marshalls) and amps with multiple, stacked circuit boards (dual Rectifiers, Soldanos, Diezel, etc).
assuming you don't need such bone-rattling crunch and catheter-boring sustain, i'd recommend some inexpensive stuff as follows:
Fender Prosonic and/or Supersonic: the Prosonic, which I own, is in my opinion the best amp Fender has made of late. it's class-a (typically perceived as a rounder tone) switchable, meaning you can switch modes to get more power: 30-60 watts, it's made in the USA, and it sells used for less than the hot rod series (which are overpriced and vaguely shitty in my opinion). the prosonics are the closest thing to a pure fender clean sound and a marshall/mesa overdrive tone in one package- and they're seriously a sleeper. since discontinuing the prosonic, theyve brought out the supersonic- i thought the clean tones in that were great but the distortion wasn't as good nor was it as 3-d or as generally 'vintage' sounding. the supply of either on ebay doesn't appear to be diminishing, and each of these are available as either combos (prosonic was a 2x10, super is a 1x12) or heads. assuming by brown sound you mean 'van halen brown sound,' this will get you there and then some.
Peavey Classic series: i believe they still make these, but they used to make them in the USA, so look for an old one. they were very affordable new and hence are a dead bargain used. they are a very solid choice in a workingmans' special for fender clean with overdrive. they came/come in 20, 30, and 50 watt combos (2x12 and 4x10 on the latter) and heads. if by 'brown sound' you mean like a neil young kinda thing, this is probably more your jam.
and one more cause i'd rant all nite otherwise,
Sovtek heads: made in a former Soviet airplane hanger with army surplus parts, including cyrillic panels, Sovtek made pretty much straight up clones of Marshall amps: including 6L6 models that approximate JTM type amps, EL34 100 watt plexi clones, JCM-clone amps with overdrive stages and master volumes, etc. they can be a little rough around the edges (just picture the inside of a Soviet tank) and the ancillary parts (jacks, knobs) often need replacing, but they completely rock. they are loud as all hell, if thats your game, and often like 1/5th of the price of their Marshall counterparts.
posted by tremspeed at 10:14 PM on May 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
music man amps are hybrids, and not all tube. few, if any, are the situations where a _vintage_ hybrid amp makes any sense these days. one of the only hybrids that actually kicked ass, the Marshall 3203, has been relegated to the annals due to a proprietary transformer suddenly becoming unavailable.
the only time i've ever seen an amp actually straight up catch fire, smoke pouring out of the input jacks and everything, was a music man. hence, i'd avoid them.
i'd proceed with caution on anything vintage, for the most part. even the most reliable old stuff will no doubt need some work, so you have to factor some bench time, parts, new set of tubes and all that- into the already premium price for 'vintage.' plus they're not intrinsically better, i had a 68 twin reverb, and i could rattle off many things i didn't like about it. gibson amps do represent a good value in that particular domain- also the gibson goldtone amps, little class a things that look like they belong on the set of Cheers, made by Trace Elliott in the mid 90s, positively kick ass.
the obsession with little expensive-ass low wattage amps is simply the fashion right now: most of the forum-types are not really gigging players, and if they are, it's no doubt an srv/trower tribute band with regular gigs at Borders. hence, their needs are decent overdrive at low volumes. but since their taste in guitars rarely deviates from vintage and/or expensive and/or 'boutique'- your PRSes and Fender Custom Shops, your Andersons and Suhrs, they feel inadequate playing through a Peavey or 'regular' Fender, despite the fact that it would fit the bill. same thing with effects: no weekend warrior is going to be using DOD or Boss pedals, so the $300 Fuzz Face was born. yeah, Class A can be cool, so can handwired amps... it's not always a requirement. Many kickass guitar tracks were cut with non class-a amps (most Marshalls) and amps with multiple, stacked circuit boards (dual Rectifiers, Soldanos, Diezel, etc).
assuming you don't need such bone-rattling crunch and catheter-boring sustain, i'd recommend some inexpensive stuff as follows:
Fender Prosonic and/or Supersonic: the Prosonic, which I own, is in my opinion the best amp Fender has made of late. it's class-a (typically perceived as a rounder tone) switchable, meaning you can switch modes to get more power: 30-60 watts, it's made in the USA, and it sells used for less than the hot rod series (which are overpriced and vaguely shitty in my opinion). the prosonics are the closest thing to a pure fender clean sound and a marshall/mesa overdrive tone in one package- and they're seriously a sleeper. since discontinuing the prosonic, theyve brought out the supersonic- i thought the clean tones in that were great but the distortion wasn't as good nor was it as 3-d or as generally 'vintage' sounding. the supply of either on ebay doesn't appear to be diminishing, and each of these are available as either combos (prosonic was a 2x10, super is a 1x12) or heads. assuming by brown sound you mean 'van halen brown sound,' this will get you there and then some.
Peavey Classic series: i believe they still make these, but they used to make them in the USA, so look for an old one. they were very affordable new and hence are a dead bargain used. they are a very solid choice in a workingmans' special for fender clean with overdrive. they came/come in 20, 30, and 50 watt combos (2x12 and 4x10 on the latter) and heads. if by 'brown sound' you mean like a neil young kinda thing, this is probably more your jam.
and one more cause i'd rant all nite otherwise,
Sovtek heads: made in a former Soviet airplane hanger with army surplus parts, including cyrillic panels, Sovtek made pretty much straight up clones of Marshall amps: including 6L6 models that approximate JTM type amps, EL34 100 watt plexi clones, JCM-clone amps with overdrive stages and master volumes, etc. they can be a little rough around the edges (just picture the inside of a Soviet tank) and the ancillary parts (jacks, knobs) often need replacing, but they completely rock. they are loud as all hell, if thats your game, and often like 1/5th of the price of their Marshall counterparts.
posted by tremspeed at 10:14 PM on May 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
Try a Tone King.
Sound clips:
http://www.toneking.com/hearit/index.html
A video I found on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmKcHnMCyM
Disclosure:
Tone King is a friend of mine. I don't know much about tube amps. I know craftmanship and attention to detail when I see it however, and I know these sound good to my ear.
posted by gearspring at 2:29 AM on May 5, 2007
Sound clips:
http://www.toneking.com/hearit/index.html
A video I found on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFmKcHnMCyM
Disclosure:
Tone King is a friend of mine. I don't know much about tube amps. I know craftmanship and attention to detail when I see it however, and I know these sound good to my ear.
posted by gearspring at 2:29 AM on May 5, 2007
the head+cab in that youtube video is probably over 3k. nice amps, tho.
posted by tremspeed at 3:15 AM on May 5, 2007
posted by tremspeed at 3:15 AM on May 5, 2007
seconding tremspeed on the Peavey classics. I bought a Classic 30 back in the day for about $300 - it's an awesome amplifier.
For a little more money, I'm currently contemplating a Vox AC30 - they recently started making a model with one speaker, which keeps both the price and the weight down. A cool-sounding amp.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2007
For a little more money, I'm currently contemplating a Vox AC30 - they recently started making a model with one speaker, which keeps both the price and the weight down. A cool-sounding amp.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 8:48 AM on May 5, 2007
Here's an idea for maximum sonic quality, flexibility and value:
Track down a Carvin Quad-X preamp. Incredible unit, tubes, 4 channels that cover everything from buttery blues to ball-breaking bombastic metal (go here, scroll down and download the manual for the Quad-X), effects loops for each of the four channels and a pair for the overall amp. Direct out for recording, and 9 (!!!) 12AX7 tubes in series for simply amazing tone and distortion. You can probably find one of these units for under $400 used (they are no longer manufactured).
Now, once you have a Quad-X, the next order is amplification (The Quad-X is a preamp, and while it'll drive headphones and a direct out for recording, it's not designed to connect to speakers). The perfect thing is the Tech 21 Power Engine 60, a wonderful little amp with totally neutral tonal color and clean, loud output. You can find them used for around $200 or so, and if you get 2 of them, you have stereo sound. This rig is unbeatable, and well under your $1000 limit.
posted by dbiedny at 2:46 PM on May 5, 2007
Track down a Carvin Quad-X preamp. Incredible unit, tubes, 4 channels that cover everything from buttery blues to ball-breaking bombastic metal (go here, scroll down and download the manual for the Quad-X), effects loops for each of the four channels and a pair for the overall amp. Direct out for recording, and 9 (!!!) 12AX7 tubes in series for simply amazing tone and distortion. You can probably find one of these units for under $400 used (they are no longer manufactured).
Now, once you have a Quad-X, the next order is amplification (The Quad-X is a preamp, and while it'll drive headphones and a direct out for recording, it's not designed to connect to speakers). The perfect thing is the Tech 21 Power Engine 60, a wonderful little amp with totally neutral tonal color and clean, loud output. You can find them used for around $200 or so, and if you get 2 of them, you have stereo sound. This rig is unbeatable, and well under your $1000 limit.
posted by dbiedny at 2:46 PM on May 5, 2007
The Marshall AVT series has a hybrid tube/transistor set up which is reasonable, extremely reliable (mine has gone 4 years in the back of a van 100 gigs a year and is solid) and sounds very warm. They have onbard fx abd 4 different channels. Very handy for live work.
I bought mine for about $1000, added a second extension cab, although this was in the UK, they're still on sale for that kind of figure.
Alternatively, the Fender hot rod deluxe has a wonderful warm tone to my ears. Costs approx $1000 ish. A friend of mine has had one for a few years now and it never let him down. I've used it once or twice and they're very well put together. More so that Marshall, in fact.
You're really going to want to try out a few with your current set up out. Get thee to a music shop with a sound room, along with your guitar and any fx you use. If the shop is serious about selling, and you're serious about buying, they'll gladly let you try out as many amps as you can stand.
All the best, it's difficult when you have enough money to have too much choice!
posted by triv at 8:08 AM on May 6, 2007
I bought mine for about $1000, added a second extension cab, although this was in the UK, they're still on sale for that kind of figure.
Alternatively, the Fender hot rod deluxe has a wonderful warm tone to my ears. Costs approx $1000 ish. A friend of mine has had one for a few years now and it never let him down. I've used it once or twice and they're very well put together. More so that Marshall, in fact.
You're really going to want to try out a few with your current set up out. Get thee to a music shop with a sound room, along with your guitar and any fx you use. If the shop is serious about selling, and you're serious about buying, they'll gladly let you try out as many amps as you can stand.
All the best, it's difficult when you have enough money to have too much choice!
posted by triv at 8:08 AM on May 6, 2007
Response by poster: Hi Folks!
Thanks for the advice. I just checked out the Peavey Classics, Fender Supersonics, and a Mesa Lonestar and 44 yesterday. All NICE. ASAP I'll get back out and try the other ones mentioned. (I never even thought about rack stuff...)
Any thoughts on the Peavey Delta Blues or Crate Palomino?
I decided Plan B here is to refurb my ragged 60s Supro Big Star, which I haven't used out for 10+ years but which sounds real real nice.
Thanks again for the suggestions
posted by mundy at 8:50 AM on May 6, 2007
Thanks for the advice. I just checked out the Peavey Classics, Fender Supersonics, and a Mesa Lonestar and 44 yesterday. All NICE. ASAP I'll get back out and try the other ones mentioned. (I never even thought about rack stuff...)
Any thoughts on the Peavey Delta Blues or Crate Palomino?
I decided Plan B here is to refurb my ragged 60s Supro Big Star, which I haven't used out for 10+ years but which sounds real real nice.
Thanks again for the suggestions
posted by mundy at 8:50 AM on May 6, 2007
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MusicMan. I would say a MusicMan. Or maybe a Mesa Boogie. But old MusicMan amps have that wonderful, gooey, fuzzy old tone...and are surprisingly loud for their size.
That said, I am also a big, big, big fan of the tweed Fender amps. Not as overdriven, but if you invest in a good tube pedal like...say...a BlueTube...then you can sound fantastic.
posted by kaseijin at 8:48 PM on May 4, 2007