I miss my ex-wife, but my aim is improving...
January 29, 2007 7:42 AM Subscribe
Can I charge my ex-wife late fees on non-child support money she owes to me each month?
My son goes to before and after school care because his divorced parents both work. My ex and I agreed to split the costs 60/40, based on the percentage of use (60% of the time it's me, 40% of the time it's her). At the beginning of each month I pay the entire fee and ask my ex to pay me her 40%. It has been my experience that relying on her to pay her portion herself isn't reliable, and I'm not going to put my son in the situation where his needs are not being met.
This cost is separate from the child support she pays (which also is habitually late). I pay the entire cost at the beginning of each month and then send her an email letting her know that she needs to pay her portion. The thing is, she rarely pays this fee within the month it is due. I generally get the money around the first of the next month, meaning I have to 'float' her the money for most of the month. Her portion of the bill is about a third of what she owes monthly for support, and this is the cheapest after school care place we could find close to his school.
Being recently divorced, I have a lot of 'divorce' debt that I am trying hard to pay off quickly. This doesn't leave me with a lot of money to spare. Having her go into debt for me each month is frustrating, because the money I have to use to 'float' her is most of my monthly 'social budget'. I'd like to be able to charge her some sort of 'late fee' if she can't get the money to me before the beginning of the next month. How can I go about doing this in a legal manner?
My son goes to before and after school care because his divorced parents both work. My ex and I agreed to split the costs 60/40, based on the percentage of use (60% of the time it's me, 40% of the time it's her). At the beginning of each month I pay the entire fee and ask my ex to pay me her 40%. It has been my experience that relying on her to pay her portion herself isn't reliable, and I'm not going to put my son in the situation where his needs are not being met.
This cost is separate from the child support she pays (which also is habitually late). I pay the entire cost at the beginning of each month and then send her an email letting her know that she needs to pay her portion. The thing is, she rarely pays this fee within the month it is due. I generally get the money around the first of the next month, meaning I have to 'float' her the money for most of the month. Her portion of the bill is about a third of what she owes monthly for support, and this is the cheapest after school care place we could find close to his school.
Being recently divorced, I have a lot of 'divorce' debt that I am trying hard to pay off quickly. This doesn't leave me with a lot of money to spare. Having her go into debt for me each month is frustrating, because the money I have to use to 'float' her is most of my monthly 'social budget'. I'd like to be able to charge her some sort of 'late fee' if she can't get the money to me before the beginning of the next month. How can I go about doing this in a legal manner?
Charging her a late fee will not make her pay in a timely manner. It will just make her angry and less likely to pay you. I don't think this will achieve your goals. Since she is already paying you child support, I don't think she is legally liable for any after school care, so try and be happy with what you already get from her. Do you have full custody?
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:49 AM on January 29, 2007
posted by Roger Dodger at 7:49 AM on January 29, 2007
Yes, I agree with caddis. I think you would have to get her to agree to a late fee, and have it written up and signed as part of your divorce agreement. Probably not worth the hassle.
posted by lee at 7:50 AM on January 29, 2007
posted by lee at 7:50 AM on January 29, 2007
Since she is already paying you child support, I don't think she is legally liable for any after school care,
This is wrong.
Seek the advice of an attorney who knows Texas (if that's where your case is) family law. I suspect your better bet is to file a motion to have the child support and child care fees garnished from her wages and paid directly to you through the state's child support enforcement unit or probation department (assuming such a thing exists in TX) but IANYL.
posted by amro at 7:57 AM on January 29, 2007
This is wrong.
Seek the advice of an attorney who knows Texas (if that's where your case is) family law. I suspect your better bet is to file a motion to have the child support and child care fees garnished from her wages and paid directly to you through the state's child support enforcement unit or probation department (assuming such a thing exists in TX) but IANYL.
posted by amro at 7:57 AM on January 29, 2007
Response by poster: Background:
In the 18 months since my divorce I have had to file four wage withholding orders (she's changed jobs a lot). Even with these orders she falls behind due to increased health insurance costs and not telling me when she changes jobs. Each time I file it costs me $40 or so. To get a new wage order reflecting the increased health care costs would require taking her to court, and that is cost prohibitive.
Asking a lawyer will eventually happen, but that will end up costing me a lot more than a few months worth of fees. I'm trying to get advice that will help me evaluate the value of bringing a lawyer in.
posted by DragonBoy at 8:16 AM on January 29, 2007
In the 18 months since my divorce I have had to file four wage withholding orders (she's changed jobs a lot). Even with these orders she falls behind due to increased health insurance costs and not telling me when she changes jobs. Each time I file it costs me $40 or so. To get a new wage order reflecting the increased health care costs would require taking her to court, and that is cost prohibitive.
Asking a lawyer will eventually happen, but that will end up costing me a lot more than a few months worth of fees. I'm trying to get advice that will help me evaluate the value of bringing a lawyer in.
posted by DragonBoy at 8:16 AM on January 29, 2007
Good suggestions re: the law, but I have one behavioral change to suggest.
I pay the entire cost at the beginning of each month and then send her an email letting her know that she needs to pay her portion.
If you don't want to be a lending institution, stop setting yourself up to be one. Your system insures that even if she was a prompt and courteous individual you'd be lending her money for 24 to 72 hours. Stop waiting till you have already paid and stop using email as your notification method.
Start sending notification via physical mail and do it the week before payment. If you write the check on the first, send the letter on the 23rd indicating that you're making payment on the 1st and she needs to pay you by then. If you think it won't turn into a passive-agressive shitfest, send it registered mail. Include mention of any payments currently past-due.
posted by phearlez at 8:29 AM on January 29, 2007
I pay the entire cost at the beginning of each month and then send her an email letting her know that she needs to pay her portion.
If you don't want to be a lending institution, stop setting yourself up to be one. Your system insures that even if she was a prompt and courteous individual you'd be lending her money for 24 to 72 hours. Stop waiting till you have already paid and stop using email as your notification method.
Start sending notification via physical mail and do it the week before payment. If you write the check on the first, send the letter on the 23rd indicating that you're making payment on the 1st and she needs to pay you by then. If you think it won't turn into a passive-agressive shitfest, send it registered mail. Include mention of any payments currently past-due.
posted by phearlez at 8:29 AM on January 29, 2007
I know you're peeved at having to 'float' her the money, but it sounds like she *is* paying you, and on a regular schedule; just a schedule 20ish days behind what you'd prefer.
It sounds like your separation agreement/divorce judgment doesn't have language regrding a deadline for these payments, otherwise I'm sure you would have mentioned that in your original post. Without written deadlines in the agreement/judgment, there isn't really any legal followup, because she's not breaking any rule or agreement; she's just pissing you off.
I know this is going to sound kind of harsh, but the best advice I have is stop letting her piss you off; accept her payment schedule, and find a way to augment your social budget so her little game doesn't irritate you anymore.
Most importantly, IANAL and you shouldn't take legal advice from strangers over the internet. Like what caddis said.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 8:57 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
It sounds like your separation agreement/divorce judgment doesn't have language regrding a deadline for these payments, otherwise I'm sure you would have mentioned that in your original post. Without written deadlines in the agreement/judgment, there isn't really any legal followup, because she's not breaking any rule or agreement; she's just pissing you off.
I know this is going to sound kind of harsh, but the best advice I have is stop letting her piss you off; accept her payment schedule, and find a way to augment your social budget so her little game doesn't irritate you anymore.
Most importantly, IANAL and you shouldn't take legal advice from strangers over the internet. Like what caddis said.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 8:57 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Go see an attorney and if she's late/not paying, garnish her paycheck... that's exactly what people would be telling *her* to do if *you* weren't paying.
posted by drstein at 9:25 AM on January 29, 2007
posted by drstein at 9:25 AM on January 29, 2007
If your goal is to get her to pay on time, a late fee may not be effective, even if it's legally possible. The book Freakonomics talks about a day-care that instituted a late fee for parents picking up their kids more than 10 minutes late at the end of the day. They immediately saw the number of late pickups increase. The social and moral incentive to pick up the kids on time was gone, and had been replaced with a small monetary incentive, which parents were able to dismiss.
I know in your situation she's already paying late, but this might be giving her permission to pay even later.
posted by teg at 9:31 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know in your situation she's already paying late, but this might be giving her permission to pay even later.
posted by teg at 9:31 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
I generally get the money around the first of the next month, meaning I have to 'float' her the money for most of the month.
Does this mean she is constantly ~1 month in arrears, or does she just pay two months at a time? Seems like it must be the former, so I agree that you need to try and do something about it - eventually you will actually be out payments, as the arrears grows longer and loner. If it is the later, I'm not sure it is worth the bother..
It might be worth talking to the child care provider, no doubt they have seen this situation before. It does seem unlikely, but they might be willing to do some of the collecting, by billing each of you individually, or something.
Four wage withholding orders in 18 months! Well, the cost is becoming comparable to a lawyer's appointment.. Not that the lawyer will have a magic bullet solution.
posted by Chuckles at 9:43 AM on January 29, 2007
Does this mean she is constantly ~1 month in arrears, or does she just pay two months at a time? Seems like it must be the former, so I agree that you need to try and do something about it - eventually you will actually be out payments, as the arrears grows longer and loner. If it is the later, I'm not sure it is worth the bother..
It might be worth talking to the child care provider, no doubt they have seen this situation before. It does seem unlikely, but they might be willing to do some of the collecting, by billing each of you individually, or something.
Four wage withholding orders in 18 months! Well, the cost is becoming comparable to a lawyer's appointment.. Not that the lawyer will have a magic bullet solution.
posted by Chuckles at 9:43 AM on January 29, 2007
teg is exactly right. A small late fee will just give her an excuse to pay late, and if the late fee is large, it will make her less able to pay.
Perhaps you could level with your day care provider and explain that you will only be paying for certain days/times, and the other times are the mom's responsibility, and if she'd like to continue dropping the child off at those times she should arrange payment directly with the provider. This may not work depending on several factors (flexibility/understanding of provider and irregular schedules being the big ones), but you need to come up with a solution other than late fees.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:50 AM on January 29, 2007
Perhaps you could level with your day care provider and explain that you will only be paying for certain days/times, and the other times are the mom's responsibility, and if she'd like to continue dropping the child off at those times she should arrange payment directly with the provider. This may not work depending on several factors (flexibility/understanding of provider and irregular schedules being the big ones), but you need to come up with a solution other than late fees.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:50 AM on January 29, 2007
Have her pay the child care provider directly. If it affects the continuity of care, then go to the lawyer.
Look, I'm divorced, and I never got the very minimal child support that was ordered. You need to set up systems that minimize your opportunity for any involvement, otherwise you get angry all the time. Our child care provider used to tell me that we were going to lose our child care, and I would just say "Call Bubba." I felt bad putting them on the spot, but it was better for me, and more effective. If I'd paid it, I would never have been reimbursed.
She does pay you. It could be worse. Save your energy for your child.
posted by theora55 at 10:25 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
Look, I'm divorced, and I never got the very minimal child support that was ordered. You need to set up systems that minimize your opportunity for any involvement, otherwise you get angry all the time. Our child care provider used to tell me that we were going to lose our child care, and I would just say "Call Bubba." I felt bad putting them on the spot, but it was better for me, and more effective. If I'd paid it, I would never have been reimbursed.
She does pay you. It could be worse. Save your energy for your child.
posted by theora55 at 10:25 AM on January 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
My slightly dishonest suggestion is to take phearlez' idea and modify it a bit. If she pays 20 days late, next time tell her you've paid on the 29th instead of the first. Then move it back to the 28th next month. Repeat until you're at least approximately on the same schedule. If you go this route, be scrupulous about your records and be careful to not lie about having paid already unless you've done so. It may be necessary to eat one month's payment to move the schedule up and avoid lying which would, I suspect, end extraordinarily poorly for you if this ever came up in court.
The other option is to request in essence a deposit. Ask her to work up an extra month's payment, and you do the same, and agree that it's to be held in case one or the other can't make a payment. It sounds good (you're being proactive), might actually be useful if you come up short one month, and gives her a bit of a buffer. On the other hand, it costs more up front for both of you.
Of course, having the provider bill you separately is probably best, though that may not be possible. This really shouldn't be your problem. I am not a lawyer, etc, but whatever you do, document the hell out of it. You don't ever want to be testifying that you're "pretty sure" you paid, you want to be able to slap down a stack of receipts saying you paid $X on Y date to Mr. Z at ABC Childcare.
posted by Skorgu at 12:12 PM on January 29, 2007
The other option is to request in essence a deposit. Ask her to work up an extra month's payment, and you do the same, and agree that it's to be held in case one or the other can't make a payment. It sounds good (you're being proactive), might actually be useful if you come up short one month, and gives her a bit of a buffer. On the other hand, it costs more up front for both of you.
Of course, having the provider bill you separately is probably best, though that may not be possible. This really shouldn't be your problem. I am not a lawyer, etc, but whatever you do, document the hell out of it. You don't ever want to be testifying that you're "pretty sure" you paid, you want to be able to slap down a stack of receipts saying you paid $X on Y date to Mr. Z at ABC Childcare.
posted by Skorgu at 12:12 PM on January 29, 2007
I'm with Theora. Is this so important that you're going to let it eat your brain? Just for illustration, I have sole physical custody of my kids. My ex is not a terrible guy, nor do we hate each other that much, but he owes me more than $30,000 in unpaid child support. So what? I got the kids. I won.
The daycare is not going to break you. You got the kid. You won. Take your kid by the hand, put on some music, and do your victory dance together.
posted by Methylviolet at 8:12 PM on January 29, 2007
The daycare is not going to break you. You got the kid. You won. Take your kid by the hand, put on some music, and do your victory dance together.
posted by Methylviolet at 8:12 PM on January 29, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by caddis at 7:46 AM on January 29, 2007